posted January 02, 2003 02:15 AM              

and having their trust being betrayed by people close to them...especially family members

it takes a load if the Scorpio desires to justify themselves, thus replaying all those painful incidents over and over again in their mind at the same time coming up with points why they are right and the other person wrong

not realising that all it does is adding more energy to the memory and recreating the same event that he is trying to overcome

posted January 03, 2003 12:58 PM              

One thing I have noticed about about myself recently is that I am very good at helping and getting in touch with other people and there feelings. But when it comes to expressing my own feelings I become very defensive and will not let people in. I assume that people understand how I feel when I give absolutely nothing away. I don't know whether this my scorpion moon or my ascendent which is Aquarius. Or a combination of both it is really haulting my progress. Can anyone suggest a way to get over this fear of expressing how I actually feel?

posted January 03, 2003 06:08 PM              

we all are aware how passionate and deeply emotional you are. Also we have been told to keep in mind that the Scorpio streak in your personality will make you rather vindictive.

well, I am curiouse to know :
If someone you deeply love hurts your feeling, what will be your reaction if the partner makes an excuse:

1. you won`t respond at all, keeping yourself silent and distant although you crave for more attention and more afection from this partner..and more excuses
2. you will forgive and will rekindle your relationship with no further questions as soon as the partner admit their mistake
3.you will never forgive and won`t agree to seal the broken parts even though you still love this person.
4. you stopped to love this person at the moment they hurt you and your love turned into a hatred.
5. you will respond kindly and won`t show any hurt feelings and will seem rather understanding but only because you really DO NOT love this person anymore.

looking forward to read your answers....

posted January 04, 2003 11:55 AM              

you're right about the reliving the hurt. I do that all the time until I reach the bottom of the pit and only then I can go back up again. It's really painful torturing yourself like that, but I can't seem to find another way. If I remember, I just have to relive it all over again, like it was yesterday. It seems as if only when I reach the bottom, I can find the strength to go on, not before. I try to, but... And, yeah, I never forget anything, so now I'm trying to deal with this from another perspective: to forgive. It's hard because I hardly know the meaning of the word . But you learn while you live, right?

Divine,
it's funny that you should mention that: one of my recent resolutions (has nothing to do with New Year, though) is to be more honest with my feelings. I hide them because I don't want to get hurt and to be one step ahead of other people. But now I'm starting to feel more and more that people can't hurt me anymore as much as they could because I'm aware of my own worth and strength, so why not show them how you really feel? These are just my thoughts for now, but it's a start, isn't it? People appreciate honesty much more than it's generally believed. If you want to get something, you have to give it first.

Bissie,

I honestly ( ) don't know how I'd react, but it would probably be a real drama.
I used to think I'd never forgive, but now I think it would take me years to forgive and I'd give endless mental torture to my b/f. But it'd all depend on the circumstances - how it happened and WHY. Yes, why is the big question here for me. I guess the cheating "in mind" hurts me more, the WISH, if you know what I mean. For me that's the same thing, if not worse even.

My first reaction would be number 1, definitely, and then number 3, but as I said, that depends on the circumstances.

And, yes, if you're understanding, I think it means you really don't care. Speaking from my perspective.

Wishing you all the best!

posted January 05, 2003 03:28 AM              

Something else I've noticed has to do with my Pisces Ascendant, and the impression I apparently give that conflicts with the underlying Scorpio Moon: In general, people who would be so inclined...thought they could pretty much walk all over me...use and/or abuse me, taking for granted that I'll put up with unfairness/mistreatment indefinitely. And I will -- for so long -- then one day, that's IT!! I've had enough, and I let the culprit know of their offenses with a deadly accuracy. I use the term "deadly" because once I've had enough I will cut someone off with finality. The reaction is always shock on the other person's part, which I have felt unfair since I would give warning of my feelings when discussing in theory what my behavior would be in a given situation. It usually takes me a very long time to come to this, because I don't easily let go (three planets in Cancer!), but when I reach that point of no return, I don't look back. With my Moon in Scorpio AND the eighth house, I am very intense indeed, though it remains hidden until provoked. That intensity has scared off more than one person (especially as a teenager, I was quite the drama queen, lol) but as I have matured I have come to really respect and appreciate my Scorp Moon, because it has given me an inner strength I never dreamed I had, until faced with one misfortune or another. More than once I have been told how brave or strong I am, though I usually don't recognize this in myself until after a crisis/problem has passed/been resolved.

Anyway, though in younger years I felt being a lunar Scorpion was a challenge, maybe even a handicap, I now see it as an opportunity for growth and helping others by example. I believe the "challenge" here is learning to rise above the more negative Scorp traits and utilizing the positive ones...and this applies to every sign in the Zodiac.

posted January 05, 2003 06:24 AM              

Reading your post made me think it's scary how much alike we Lunar Scorps really are. This is what applies to me most of what you wrote:

"I have tried to forgive but will never forget. I've worked very hard at resisting the urge to get revenge...and for the most part have succeeded...understanding (and witnessing) Divine or Poetic Justice playing out to those who deeply wounded me, without my having to do a thing."

I don't have a Pisces Asc, but I'm always patient (maybe too patient) and fair with people, giving them a chance to behave in that manner towards me, too, but when they fail to do so repeatedly, I cut them off forever without even giving them a chance to apologize. I figure they had their chance to be fair to me and they blew it, and I don't need that kind of treatment. And the thing is, I'm never sorry for any of them. I burn my bridges and go on. I know I'll meet someone better, and I always do, I don't cling to people just because I need the company. I'm better on my own.

And, yes, they are shocked when I cut them off, usually they don't know why, because I let them behave the way they did, and one day I just didn't anymore. But that's for them to think about. And if they still don't know what they did wrong, well, tough.

LL, I think you have your answer right there.

Twin Lady, did you also find that most men are afraid of you? (It's not my appearance, mind you, actually men find me attractive, but they are often not at ease around me and although they're attracted, they often run away sooner or later). Maybe it's this Scorp Moon that scares them away. What is your experience?

Hi to all my other Moonmates!

posted January 05, 2003 02:27 PM              

In reference to your question about my scaring off men, I have to answer YES!! I haven't had trouble attracting them; but sooner or later...they withdrew. The kind of withdrawal depended on the man. I've been married and divorced twice. My first husband was Virgo with a Cancer Moon and Virgo Ascendant. While I believe that the trine between our Moonsigns drew (and kept) us together for years, ultimately he pulled away from me emotionally because my intensity was too much for his Virgo logic to cope with, lol. We have remained friends of a sort though, with him coming to my aid when I've been hit with some hardship. My second husband was Leo with a Virgo Moon and Virgo Ascendant (Virgo IS my seventh house, so that was the attraction for me, I guess). With him, I believe he was initially drawn to my Pisces Ascendant; he actually saw me as a sweet "damsel in distress" lol. We had two beautiful daughters together and it seemed as long as my Ascendant dominated my behavior, we got along fine. However, after about 9 years of marriage I was confronted with a serious identity crisis and for the first time I had to draw on my Scorpio Moon energy for (I felt at the time) the sake of my sanity. He couldn't handle it; felt threatened...and found someone who could feed his ego (no offense to any Leos out there; this is just my experience with this one Leo, lol). He left me with two little girls to raise by myself, and I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was my lunar Scorpion WILL that enabled me to do this.

There have been a few other relationships less significant than marriage which began with the initial attraction of either my Gemini Sun and/or my Pisces Ascendant...but in every case...when my Scorpio Moon intensity showed itself, the relationship ended. This may sound cynical, but it seems to me that the only part of my Scorpio Moon a man has liked has been the physically passionate part!

Anyway...I have been alone for some time now, because after the last heartbreak (a relationship after the second divorce that ended in betrayal - - again) I decided to focus on my children (Mars in Cancer and 4th house, plus Jupiter and Uranus in Cancer but in my 5th) and put up "walls" where the opposite sex is concerned. Similar to you,I decided I would rather be on my own than to endure bad treatment from someone. I'd like to think that when the time is right (when I'm READY, lol) I will meet a man who is strong and enlightened enough to appreciate ALL of me...mind, soul, body and spirit together. (I'm not asking for much, huh?)... I will say this: I don't ask for anything from anyone that I'm not willing to give, myself. In the meantime, I've come to like ME more and more.

BTW Morgana, what are your Sun and Rising Signs?

posted January 05, 2003 11:11 PM              

wow!

i think i've found an astro twin!

my Cancerian planets are Mercury and Venus

quote:

---

There have been a few other relationships less significant than marriage which began with the initial attraction of either my Gemini Sun and/or my Pisces Ascendant...but in every case...when my Scorpio Moon intensity showed itself, the relationship ended. This may sound cynical, but it seems to me that the only part of my Scorpio Moon a man has liked has been the physically passionate part!

---

i hear you, you're definitely not alone there

which reminds me, this guy read my palm and by just looking at a few lines at the base of my palm he discerned all these private details about my last relationship...things like physical passion and other things he could not have known

vey spooky
(sorry off-topic)

hi purpleflame

posted January 06, 2003 07:33 AM              

This is what I did: at one time I decided I don't want to play the flirting game anymore that sooner or later ended in disappointment and I said to myself that I won't get involved with a man anymore unless he meets my (very strict) criteria. I set up a condition and didn't look at men as potential lovers anymore, if you know what I mean. It took a couple of years, I had a pretty good time during, because I wasn't burdened with the pressure of looking for a partner. Soon I met a friend I knew from long ago and was always very attracted to (well, we couldn't really be friends because of the physical attraction between us, but we always liked each other very much) and he immediately made a move. And the next thing I knew, we were head over heels in love. But first, as I was so badly hurt so many times, I submitted him to all my terrible Scorp Moon traits, from the very beginning. We stayed up all nights talking and arguing, crying and analysing, all because of me - I guess I wanted to see if he's strong enough to handle me because noone ever was before that. You know, "if he's strong enough to handle this, he can handle everything". So I showed him all my worst qualities (you know what I'm talking about, right?) from the very start, and guess what, he loved me all the more for it, even though he later admitted that sometimes he thought he couldn't stand it anymore. Our relationship went from worst to, I hope, best. He passed the test and now I trust him completely because I saw that he passed it because he loves me. Adn I guess his Scorp Moon helped a lot as well... BTW, my Sun sign is Cancer and my Asc. is Leo. The problem with that is that I often look very cheerful and easygoing and sunny, but I'm everything but that.

Ice Mists,
what did you mean by that? Personally I think that somehow we need that rollercoaster, however painful, to keep reliving the experience of ups and downs, life and death of emotions, so to speak. Something has to die to be born again. I think this is how we experience emotions and that is why they are so extreme and strong. Because we go for all or nothing at all.

posted January 06, 2003 10:34 AM              

I like that term, Morgana!

I had to smile when I read your story about testing your BF at the beginning of your relationship. That's exactly what I did with my second husband, the Leo. I think you'll understand this when I say that from the day I met him, I KNEW I was going to marry him. I had been casually dating 2 or 3 men when I met him, and within a week or two we became "exclusive". However, I was scared to death of what I saw to be the fatedness of my attraction to him, having one divorce under my belt, so to speak. I just knew in my SOUL we would marry. Anyway, the truth is that during the time of testing...we fought so much we almost DIDN'T get married. But I wanted children, and he was the only man who at that time said he wanted them too. Also, he treated me like a queen. I remember asking him on our first date, "Are you always this nice??" I was so used to poor treatment from men, I didn't know how to handle his kindness...thus, the testing. To be blunt, I put him through h - - l. At some point though, I quite unconsciously shifted gear back to the sweet Pisces part of my nature, and as I said before pretty much remained in that mode, if you will, for almost 9 years. This is why, in all fairness...many months after he left once the lunar Scorp in me re-emerged...I was able to take my share of the responsibility for the marriage breaking up. I will always maintain that had we BOTH been completely honest with each other, we MIGHT have been able to fight it out and come to some kind of real understanding, because he too, did not show me all of his true nature. Who knows? Maybe we would have parted anyway; but the way he handled himself, running to the arms of another woman instead of standing up to me (which would have earned my respect, regardless of the outcome)...this is what shattered me so completely that I nearly "lost it". It's also quite ironic because of all my previous relationships (including my Virgo first husband), it was this Leo man whom I trusted completely; and it was he who wounded me the most!! There have been times since that experience when I have felt I will never be able to trust a man again...then I realize that kind of thinking gives HIM victory over me, lol. Still, the scars run deep, and I do know that I will never trust that COMPLETELY again, ever.

I'm very happy for you, that your man passed the test; and yes, I agree that him also having a Scorpio Moon helps a lot! It's odd...because after I read your post I remembered one of the people I was casually dating when I met my second husband. He was a Sagittarian, with a Virgo Ascendant (me and Virgo Ascendants!!)...plus a Scorpio Moon. I actually liked him very much; he was a lot of fun and there was a strong attraction between us. Unfortunately, he kept that Scorpio energy well hidden too...and came off as very happy-go-lucky and carefree. Since as I mentioned, my goal was marriage and children, I didn't take him too seriously and kept him more or less at arm's length. So then later, after he learned I was engaged to the Leo man, I found out that he was absolutely devastated, and cared much more for me than he'd let on! Whatever. Because I AM a fate-oriented person, I believe things worked out the way they were meant to, for better or worse. My second husband and I had two Saturn aspects, my first husband and I had one Saturn aspect...and they are karmic ties, with lessons to teach and learn; isn't that what Linda said?

I am really enjoying this thread!

posted January 06, 2003 03:55 PM              

Twinlady,
this is so interesting what you have to say about your relationships. Something tells me you still care about that Sag you left behind... I think you two would have an interesting relationship with your Sun signs and Ascendants in opposition. Maybe you'll meet again when the timing is better, I firmly believe in these things after the way me and my b/f had met after all these years. (BTW, he has a Virgo Asc. too! ) I think if you have "unfinished business" with a person, something unresolved, and by that I mean unreleased emotional energy, you meet them again. If not in this, then in another lifetime. Depends also on the other person, I think.

Me and my b/f have plenty of Saturn aspects and yes, we learn a lot from each other (I actually take into consideration things he tells me that I don't agree with and this way I'm learning to be more tolerant), and we compliment well one another.
But didn't Linda say something about Pluto being the great teacher in relationships, I think in relation to karmic ties? I don't remember.

Well, that's it from me. I really have to do some work now

, morgana

posted January 06, 2003 06:10 PM              

Wow, this has definately turned out to be an eye-opening topic...eh?

Well, I just thought I'd try and add my two bobs worth, so here goes.....

I have Sagi sun in the 1st as well as Sag ASC, and my moon in Scorp in the 12th house, so I do seem to be happy, optimistic and fun, but my trusted friends call me mysterious, as I'm not too comfortable revealing my emotions to others at all.

Something inside me would rather have them figure it out for themselves as I do with others. I have found my intuition regarding ' other people ' to be very trustworthy, and I can spot a alterior motive from miles away, it's just something that I seem to KNOW.

I must admit, this penetrating aspect of me does annoy my husband, but I believe, it was a trait that I mastered in my teen years as a self defense mechanism. Needless to say, others are not always confortable with my eagle eye, but personally I find it nowadays, a real assett.

My major challenge has always been with woman, as they don't seem to trust me and, I feel, quite uncomfortable around a lot of them, even though, as I now know this is a lesson of mine, I do try to work with this side of myself. Even so, women still challenge me the most, there just seems to be no inbetween with the woman I meet in life, they either loathe me or love me.

Even when very young, I always had more male friends and related more with the guys and to this day the men in my life have been my friends since childhood.

Forgiveness is something that I have had to learn. Not to say that I have mastered it, but I do believe that my revengeful thoughts and actions have greatly subsided over the last few years, purely through desire.

My husband and I met at fourteen and had two children by the time we were both twenty, so forgiveness, tolerance and depth have been mighty lessons for my moon.

Naturally, this has not been smooth sailing, but this year is our 21st year together, so we certainly have grown alot over these years.

So, yes, we are a complicated lot, but boredom is my worst enemy, so I'm happy to have a little depth in my life.

posted January 07, 2003 10:41 PM              

I have to admit that at first I thought you were a man . Now I see we're all chicks here. It would kinda be nice to hear the male perspective too, don't you think?

I have the same problem with women. They either love me or hate me, just as you said. But I think they generally hate me or, if not, they stay away from me. I did have a few very good female friends, but always just one at a time. I find it easier to make friends with men because with them at least you always know what you're at.
Even in an astrology class the teacher (imagine, a teacher of astrology to be so biased! But she was female, of course ) accused me of plotting something, of having some ulterior motive, and I was just sitting there, not believing my ears. She actually gave an example of me, like: "See? This is Scorpio Moon all about. Always plotting something hidden, always up to something." I presume she meant something bad. And I swear I wasn't up to anything. Maybe I give that kind of impression, but an astrologer should know better, don't you think?

Hey, 21 years!! Congratulations! How has your relationship changed during this time? Did you have to fight off any "temptations", if you know what I mean?

Well, I have to go to bed now. It's so nice coming to this thread, it's like a safe haven, always returning to the people for whom you know they know exactly how you feel. Such a comforting feeling.

, morgana

posted January 08, 2003 12:23 AM              

I am scorp asc, but I am peeking here anyway!

posted January 08, 2003 09:32 AM              

I'm just checking to see if this message will post. I have been unable to get one through for several days, though there hasn't been a problem under other threads. I realize Merc is RX, but why this subject? lol Anyway...if this goes through I will try sending the long one containing responses to questions and comments posed by several others. (Thinking out loud): could I be having this problem because the message is too long? I just keep getting an Internal Server Error message, yet I had no trouble under the Mercury Retrograde thread, where I did some grumbling!

Well, here goes!

posted January 08, 2003 01:01 PM              

Twinlady, that happened to me once. I lost a very long reply and got "internal error". Randall said, to avoid this, you have to break very ong post into two parts.

LL,
yes, definitely, in my case. But Moon is my Sun Sign ruler and that makes it more significant in my chart, and it's placed in my 4th house, its domicile, where it has the most powerful influence, so... And I am a woman (Moon, women, you know... ) That's why I think I understand the Scorpio nature so well. And I doing my thinking with my feelings, feelings rule my life, not reason, and my feelings are Scorpio feelings, so that's why I often feel and react and act and look like a Scorpio. Especially when I'm upset or unhappy.

Hi, Fajita, I love you too!

posted January 08, 2003 01:03 PM              

You asked a very interesting question! I always felt that Scorpio, being ruled by Pluto was the most powerful sign to begin with, whether it is one's Sunsign, Moonsign, or Ascendant. Maybe the way in which that powerful energy comes out is determined by this. As a Gemini Sun and Pisces Rising myself, my Scorpio energy is beneath an outward impression of friendliness and being easy-going...but it's there, and yes, it is very powerful. The Moon in our chart is receptive - - how we react to the world - - and depending on the signs involved could be very different from the Sun/Rising sign characteristics projected. My older daughter is Gemini Sun, Pisces Moon and Scorpio Rising and if one didn't have an understanding of the signs and planets, they would think her a Scorp through and through, lol. I am one of the few people she has told me she trusts and feels safe with, and I believe it's because I understand so well what is going on with her. I realize that when she is being "difficult" she is trying to protect her verrrry tender, receptive Pisces Moon, and that enables me to help her work through her turbulent emotions.

I can tell you this: if there is a strong Scorpio influence in a person's chart, it will not be denied. It will be expressed sooner or later; and it's more likely to be a positive expression if sooner, lol. In my own experience I have found it best to embrace this part of my nature and work on integrating it with "the rest of me that is me". I hope that helps.

Hi to the rest of my Moonmates!

posted January 08, 2003 05:24 PM              

Morgana, Yes...I am all woman..hehehe.

Now to your relationship question....Yes, our relationship has changed enormously over the years,thankfully too, as we both met at 14, so that's a kinda young and crazy age.

Both of our children were sent to us early in our lives, and considering that my husband was only a second year apprentice and we had zilch money behind us, I find it nothing short of a miracle that we both made it this far! It has been a pretty bumpy ride, but character building, nonetheless.

Yes, we both have been ' tempted ' many times over the years, but after a very good friends suicide through unfaithfulness, we both made a "pact" not to play those games, as we've both seen the destruction and sadness that can result.

We both still have "issues" that crop up in life, but I can honestly say that our relationship has been a huge growth experience for both of us, and so far, thankfully, we've been able to roll with the punches

LL,
I'm honestly not too sure which placement wins out, whether it's my Sag sun & Asc or my Scorp moon. But, then again, I have Mars, Jupiter and Uranus all in Libra, so decisions are not my strong point

My moon is definately noticeable, and I kind of think about it as being the "power" behind my personality.

When I was younger, my moon was much more evident in a negative kind of way, but through willpower and the power of transformation, this has changed greatly over the years, much to everyones relief.....and mine !!!