posted July 19, 2003 01:18 AM              

loony i forgot to say thank you for your compliment *blush* i would enjoy more discussion with you too!

hi dorkus! hugs to you!

your moon in libra is very telling to me. people would think a moon in libra is a nice sweet sign for it to be in, but as with all things (especially astrology) it has a dark side of sorts, too. i will type out the libra moon and mother from my book (which is in two pieces because my fathers dog had at it *sigh*) and maybe you will find some insight there.

quote:

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the mother was a romantic but in many cases was terribly disappointed in her marriage, since it didnt give her the love she hungered for. disappointed, she may have turned to this child as her primary love object, showering on mommys little darling all her devotion. the person grew up expecting this kind of love and attention as a prerequisite to well being. even children who were less favored were often placed in the position of mediating between two warring parents. they learned to please and charm others as a way to preserve the tenuous security of the household. conflict was highly threatening to the family, so they learned to seek peace at any price.

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this sounds a little more positive than what you have described. i think the aspects have something to do with it. i know that my mother has moon in libra, and that describes her to a t. the thing is with her it got out of control. the ego thing... she just needs so much attention and love to fulfill her immense ego. i took that away from her, when i was born, as ive said in the other thread. it really doesnt sound like you will have this issue, again relating to your aspects, not to mention your sun, virgos typically dont have a huge ego but that is general. but-

with you i would think that the square to neptune has a *lot* to say about it... regarding your mothers mental illness. doesnt neptune rule mental illnesses? also the sextile to uranus, which again means 'interruption' and a perfect example of a 'positive' aspect being hardly positive at all. the love and attention that moon in libra signifies seems to be 'interrupted' and you instead seem to be getting all the worse energies of it, especially where saturn is involved, being the planet of duty and karmic lessons. that puts you in a hard place to be. your relationship with your mother seems it have duty as a strong theme, and perhaps it seems like you are so 'together' and rational about it because of your virgo sun again, duty being hardly foreign to a virgo. it really does sound like your mother has put you in the position of being a replacement for a husband insofar as her issues. course it would depend on other factors of your chart... what is your ic? position and aspect?

a further note- with you being a virgo sun perhaps she doesnt even notice your form of love as it is not very dramatic, like say a leos. i dont know your venus (and i dont think it really rules a parent/child love totally, but maybe somewhat) but virgos love through service (and i have a virgo venus, and i notice this a lot). all in all i think its very sad but i really feel she doesnt notice your particular expression of love for her, and that doesnt fill her need. i think for you it would be best to live your own life and not rely on her because i dont think she will change. thats just my opinion though, but its biased as to my own experiences with a mentally ill mother. one day maybe she will grow and you will have a better relationship. i only hope for that. in the meantime though i think that your plans are very judicious and stable (and i would expect nothing less from a virgo ) so i hope you can endure till you are out on your own. i know its hard and im sorry. i feel for you and the others that have shared... you have a good head on your shoulders though so dont forget to value yourself and be kind to yourself. you will accomplish great things in life, i am sure! i havent looked at your chiron yet as theres things going on in my life right now that are... unpleasant... but perhaps you might be some sort of healer, i know that comes easy to virgos by their birthright. anyway one day soon i promise ill look at your chiron, maybe i can help you some.

also i wanted to comment that even though many of us feel like we do not belong with family, we can belong in other ways, such as with friends. we do not have to be alone.

have you read the starseeds thread in universal codes? just curious. i killed that thread awhile ago lol. i cant remember if you were in it, and i wonder if you should be.

posted July 19, 2003 02:11 PM              

To answer your question, my IC is in Sag, and my Venus lies in Libra 2nd house. Chiron is in Gemini, 10th house. But I'm still fairly new to this astrology stuff, so ya know!

I have not read the starseeds thread. Sounds interesting though. But you say its dead? Aw shucks! Well I guess we will talk soon.

Hugs!!!!!!!!

posted July 19, 2003 11:31 PM              

it is really true that age brings freedom and more self confidence... i feel better now that i am older and on my own, i am so glad i made it! you will too, trust me! i think we probably felt a lot of the same feelings, when i was your age.

i will think about your chiron soon. i want to get poor tevas chart done first... i can answer general questions but when i really meditate on a chart it is so draining, and takes time. thats what i want to do with your chiron, so if you can be patient... if you look in the thread with my name on it regarding chiron i gave wevil some ideas about using algebraic type equations for interpreting things, you might want to play with that a little. even if you dont know much astro you can still find keywords easily and just play a little. its a learning experience and fun

first of all, i *know* you are more sensitive. i in turn *sense* it in you. just because you are an earth sign doesnt give the whole picture. even if you had no water signs, much like me, i only have my node and part of fortune in water, it DOESNT mean that you dont have a sensitivity or even 'psychic' or 'intuitive' abilities. its all about the whole chart, the houses, all the interactions, and things like polarities. i have a lot of that going on in my chart. i think too that virgos are fairly sensitive, as in feelings, i dont know about psychic sensitivity but yes, virgos are quite sensitive, of course taking into effect the rest of the chart too.

let me break here to ask a question- have you gone to the astrology course forum? i think you could probably learn a lot there. im not sure if you have mentioned that anywhere. i plan on going to help if i can and eventually bone up on some things i need to learn when life is a bit more stable. i need a bit of freedom right now, so im not committing to it yet.

anyway, i have another question. what do you think would happen, if when your mother screams at you that you dont love her, what would happen if you screamed back and said 'OF COURSE I DO! EVEN THOUGH YOU HURT MY FEELINGS I LOVE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE MY MOTHER! I JUST DONT LOVE THE WAY YOU WANT ME TO, MY WAY OF SHOWING LOVE IS DIFFERENT!' now, i am NOT suggesting you do this, as i do not know, she might fly even more off the handle and i would NEVER suggest anything that could hurt you. as a scorp though, she might think that your silence is an affirmation that you dont. in dealing wiht a scorp, sometimes appealing to their emotions makes them stop and take notice, or it can make them uncomfortable and sting you. its something to think about though. perhaps you could write her a note, so you dont have to face her. thats what i used to do. when my mother was being a *ahem* ***** to me i would write a note telling her how i felt about her, and that i wished she realized i loved her. often it worked, actually it *always* worked, and id be safe for awhile. few days sometimes. writing is much better in dealing with difficult people. then you arent 'in their face' as it were, and that means neither are they in yours. you can get your point across without suffering their immediate emotional reaction, they have time to assimilate the information and often after thinking about it they feel bad. when you have immediate interaction if they are very defensive, thats whats gonna happen, is they are going to strike if they even slightly see it as a criticism. its easier to be diplomatic and non judgemental with written words too. in person we can be overwhelmed and frustrated and just explode.

part two coming up, its too long i can tell ^_^

posted July 20, 2003 03:30 AM              

i hope you can see some alternatives to you thinking that you are your mother or will be and are doomed to be just like her. she is *not* a good role model for you. i have mentioned in another thread about how we dont need to feel that we are doomed to become our parents. once you are away from your moms influence (and it sounds like she 'commands a room') you will probably not feel so much like her or that you are in danger of becoming like her. mothers can sometimes be kind of a mirror, especially if they are 'projectors'. my mother is very much a projector. she is so... external that she can force her mood on mine, and i end up feeling her mood even when i was fine before she came around.

just to let you know i used to have a few of my mothers character traits/ habits. one of them was a severe addiction to thrift stores. she would spend money she just didnt have, shed beg borrow or steal just to go buy stuff at the thrift store. it was like a drug addiction, but legal. she got a high from it too. shed buy all these absolutely useless junky items, because she would think she could 'fix' them. they would sit there for ages and eventually be thrown out or something. they were really hideous too! it would drive me nuts, but i used to do that too. i guess i thought it was acceptable behaviour, because she did it, and if she could see potential in something, than why couldnt i? since i havent been around her, i dont do that anymore. i realized that it was a bad thing, and i stopped doing it. its ok to go to thrift stores if you are buying something you really need, and the money is spare money and not money that needs to be spent elsewhere.

ugh im tired... ill talk to you later!

*hugs*

posted July 20, 2003 03:43 AM              

I know I'm jumping in the middle of your posts and I don't want to get you sidetracked but...
I just wanted to say thank you for that description of Gemini moon & Mom.
That was my Mom almost perfectly! In my case, it wasn't an older sister, it was my Grandma that was the surrogate.
I was the eldest of five and I 'mothered' my younger siblings.
I have immense respect for my Mom. She raised a family alone in a time when 'divorce' was still a dirty word. And she certainly did encourage us to be curious!
Questions were never a problem. If she didn't know the answer, she made sure we found someone who did! Independent thinking was her great gift to us.
However, she never was, and still isn't, good at handling us emotionally. Busy phone when your world collapses? That would be Mom.

BTW, I asked Mom when my father's b-day was. Was I surprised to find out he was an Aquarian?

Hope things relax for you soon. You are doing wonderful work here!

posted July 20, 2003 10:58 AM              

loony NEVER feel like you are intruding! i dont own any of these threads, and you have actually helped me a lot too. i love your input! i am very appreciative of your comments to me too as i have a certain fear when i post. it would kill me if i ever gave any sort of information that was harmful to anyone and i often question whether i am being untoward in sharing! i am my own worst critic i suppose. the truth is though that i agonize over almost every post, because i would never want to say something that ended up being harmful to another in any way. i take words very seriously as they have power. thats why i often make disclaimer statements, as i want to leave an option open in case something i say might not be germane. i do not like generalizations much either, so i try to craft my responses in a way that doesnt exclude other possibilities. i am not perfect, i might see things in the wrong perspective and i would hate to make an error in that stead. its true though that i do have a fair bit of wisdom i guess, as i have had a difficult life and have known a lot of different people from all cultures/social classes so i have a lot of life experience to draw on. i feel i understand most people, even though i dont often feel very human, lol! your positive feedback is very valuable to me, and sets my mind at ease a bit. thank you for that!

anyway loony, thank you for your well wishes! things are great now. they were awful yesterday but making up really is great for a relationship. my husband was very forgiving and did accept his responsibility in the matter too, which made it very good in the end. we also got a lot of unspoken feelings out, it ended up beneficial as a 'scorched earth' sometimes is. do you know of 'scorched earth policy'? its an ideal where everything is burned down much like a forest fire, with conflict, either in words or i suppose as a military strategy. i am a bit of an environmentalist so i dont like to think of it as literal but it does tend to work well in interpersonal relationships at times, considering all circumstances. thats kinda what happened with us. we were scorched and the marriage was tested, yet once the flames were out the earth was purged of old growth and it made a more fertile ground for the new growth. burns give nutrients to the soil and forest fires are actually natures way of making fertile land. course they cant get out of control but in any event i find the symbolism useful.

i wanted to say that even though your mom isnt there when you are in a crisis, i dont believe its because she doesnt care. she so obviously does, as in how she encouraged your curiosity and made sure that your questions were answered. probably she didnt/doesnt know how to deal with your emotional issues very well. some mothers dont and they are deeply concerned by what their child is going through yet they just feel helpless. what sign is she btw? perhaps a sag, or an air sign? i can imagine that it was a challenge for her to be a maverick... but she had a good support system- you and your grandma. i was raised mostly by my gram too, also two of my mothers sisters. the other sister was aqua and was a little distant, lol.

my gram was pisces, as was one of my aunts, and my other aunt was cancer. i got a lot of nurture from my cancer aunt, and the pisces aunt and grama were just wonderful in their own ways. grama was magical, she is a norwegian elf. my pisces aunt started me on my path of astro and did many other things to enrich me as well. i love grama so much, she was so good to me. i am so thankful i had strong water in my upbringing as they were excellent role models and probably saved me in many ways.

thats interesting about your dad. kind of like poetic justice in a way, hey? im sure hes been watching over you.

hopefully i wont have to lost this post nor have to split it in two

i have a couple comments for other people that i mistakenly missed but i will do that in another thread as i can tell this ones gettin long already and i actually have to take a break.

take care! *hugs*

~ana

posted July 20, 2003 11:14 AM              

sorry to heap more words on you but in the confusion last night i forgot a few comments i wanted to make. i will do those soon, doing some other stuff at the moment that doesnt facilitate me sitting in front of the pc. i am very anal at times though and like to have structure so thats why im bothering to post this, lol. its a reminder to myself too i spose. being an air sign its easy for me to forget and float off in some other direction, lol.

tuesday i also had comments for you about an interesting fact about capricorn, so dont lemme forget. its kinda neato in a way but also might give you some understanding about your moon. im also going to type out all the signs from my moon book a bit later today, ill make a new thread so that its separate from this one and easily accessible to all.

there were a couple of other posts i wanted to comment on too and i will do that as well, once i can sit and review this whole thread. i was kinda annoyed with myself that i had missed a couple of people... but i will fix it soon. ^_^

posted July 22, 2003 04:34 PM            

My mom still tells the story about how hard it was on her that when I was a baby I would just laugh and entertain myself in the crib. She would want to hold me, but when she picked me up, I would get fussy and cry. Not always, just most of the time. I just liked being on my own.

I always felt that mom had us too young (she was 21) and really just wanted someone to give her unconditional love. She never liked the messiness involved and there was no time for sickness. If I puked, she would dry heave and puke and make such a rucous that it would make me cry. So I learned not to be sick or weak or have "incomplete" habits as she called them. She was (and still kind of is) a perfectionist. Dishes not done properly (by a 7 year old) were thrown back into the sink, while she yelled that I had failed. LOL...I laugh now, but it was tough back then.

In my brothers case, he was almost lost and came into the world under more difficult circumstances. Neither of us were expected, but they wanted us just the same. My brother had asthma and was always sick, which made him feel guilty I guess. He grew out of it and went on to be MVP for football and is a total outdoor kind of guy.

Both of us lament the temper tantrums my mom threw and how emotional she would get. I learned to tune her out, to just drift off to another place while she yelled at me. I guess most teens do. She would also threaten suicide, which really threw us into a panic.

posted July 23, 2003 03:05 PM            

It's like watching a herd of wild horses as they fly across the terrain. That is how we feel, like please take this bridle off of us and let us run....just for a while.

Or....LOL, I liken the need for freedom to be kind of like that Mike Myers skit where he is the little kid in the helmet and harness which is tied to the monkey bars. When we get to feeling like that we want to take off, just like when someone gives him chocolate and he pulls the monkey bars out of the ground and runs along the street. LOL.....that us just so Saggie!!!

posted July 23, 2003 09:12 PM              

having a heavy saturn influence in my chart mine comes through by way of needing solitude. i dont necessarily need to go roaming around the continent (although i have when i was a bit younger) but i DO need solitude. thats a must. i was afraid to tell my husband that as i thought he might think i was trying to 'get away' from him, but he understands it now so thats good to have an understanding spouse.

posted July 24, 2003 03:10 AM              

my blood sugar is dropping so i must go rest, but... wanted to say that laziness is not a libra thing (although many 'astrologers' seem to think it is) id look to mars for that. also procrastination could be a mars thing.

think of how libran traits fit into you emotionally. now if you procrastinate or are lazy, is it because emotionally something is preventing you from achieving those ends? perhaps fear of failure? moon is all about emotions, and has to be looked at in that context, moreso than any other planet imo. you have venus too? i can see that. a moon in libra would mean that things of a venusian nature (food, art, books, love, etc) would fulfil your emotional needs.

thats all i can say right now but if you are interested in more let me know. ive a pile of things to tell you but im cautious as i have already posted so many posts to you... so if you are interested in what else i have to say lemme know. otherwise i wont drown you with my words, lol. i am well aware that i am quite verbose.

i also have information for you on your 'intelligence' as i have gone through the same thing... just ask if you are curious. you have not lost your intelligence... theres a reason for it though and it relates to psych meds but thats all i will say for now.

take care