posted January 10, 2005 11:50 PM              

Thank you

posted January 12, 2005 01:04 AM              

"How to Delineate the 3 Liliths in Your Chart
by Sue Simmons

In doing research on the 3 Liliths for my article, which will be
posted my 3 Liliths site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3Liliths, I
have found the following to be the best way to delineate the 3 Liliths
in your chart. This assumes that you have an accurate knowledge of
signs and houses. If you need to brush up on this, see Liz Greene's
book, Astrology for Lovers, which is in print and Michael Lutin's Made
in Heaven, which is available from his website, http://www.michaellutin.com/aneworderform.htm
You will also need to have The Book of Rulerships by Rex Bills handy.

If you are trying to figure out what the 3 Liliths mean in someone
else's chart you will need to ask them lots of questions. Don't
assume anything without asking the questions. The questions you need
to ask come from everything the house stands for and everything the
sign stands for. There will be really significant problems in these
area, so ask about what they can't do, hate to do, have problems with,
etc. There are no positives here.

If you read my 3 Lilith Info on my yahoo site first, a lot of your
questions will be answered. I am assuming you have done that. First
go to the Swiss Ephemeris and find your true Black Moon Lilith (exact
directions in my 3 Liliths Info). Be sure to look at the "osc",
that's the true. The mean will be right above it, and will say mean.
If there is a - sign on the line where the osc placement is then your
BML is Rx. If there is no - sign, your BML is direct. Don't worry
about the mean. It works until you start using the true but the true
works much better.

Let's suppose you have true BML at 01Libra11 in the 9th house within
2 deg of the MC, and that the 9th house also contains Pluto. In order
to figure out what the BML adds to this, you first have to figure out
what the Pluto in Leo in the 9th means, then see how having BML there
makes a difference. I find Jeff Green's Pluto vol.1 extremely good
for what Pluto in the 9th and in Leo means so if you read that, then
you can think about how the BML adds something difficult (BML is
always difficult) to it. Belief system, legal matters and in-laws are
9th house, as is the second wife, 3rd child and 4th sibling so if you
have any of those think about them too.

If Pluto in Leo and BML in Libra are both in the 9th, then you know
Virgo must be intercepted there, so take that into consideration too.
The latest thinking is that intercepted signs represent something you
refused to do in a prior lifetime and must do this time. I have found
people extremely resistant to doing or thinking about doing whatever
their interception represents according to the houses and signs
involved and it seems to be a part of themselves they don't like and
don't want to look at.

I have also noticed that people with Virgo-Pisces intercepted in the
9-3 houses with Sag ASC have some difficulty with driving or sense of
direction. They either learn to drive much later than their peers,
are afraid to drive, are terrible drivers, or have a poor sense of
direction. The BML in the 9th may make it worse or it may signify
disastrous relationships with the in-laws or second marriage
partner. Legal issues are probably something to avoid. Ask a lot of
questions and it will soon become clear what the BML adds to the mix.

Next, since it is within 2 deg of the MC you need to explore how this
affects all 10th house matters such as career (difficulty knowing
what work you really want to do? many job changes? underpaid because
doing volunteer work or working for a family member? working off and
on? illness interfering with work? someone else controlling the
kind of work you do? problems with the boss?), reputation (any
scandals, gossip?), mother issues, etc., If there are any planets in
the 10th delineate them first and then see how BML makes it worse.
If there are no difficulties in the career then consider that the
time may be off by a few minutes. The orb of BML is only 3 degrees.

After you figure out how it affecting the 9th house, then you go to
the sign. It's easier for me that way, anyway. So you think about
all the Libra issues there are and then figure out how they are harder
for you than they would be ordinarily if you didn't consider it. With
Libra and 9th house both there I would expect legal issues. Also ask
about partnership issues, both business and personal, kidney
problems, etc. Look in Rex Bill's Book of Rulerships to make sure
you haven't missed anything. The more you ask about the more you
will see how it works.

Let's assume Venus is opp. BML at 4 Aries 41 and you assume that would
mean trouble with women. Don't assume anything. First, it is outside
the orb that seems to work. Second, no one really knows what this
opposition means. Anyone who says they do is just guessing because
most astrologers use the mean position which has been around a lot
longer. To really work, Venus would have to be in opposition to the
true and within a 3 degree orb. To see whether it works, think about
all the 3rd house issues, such as siblings, neighbors, cars, short-
distance travel, etc. and see whether the BML is putting a damper on
any of those. That is, is the Venus not working there as you would
assume it would? To know this you need to take into account other
apects to the Venus and the placement of the ruler. Second, think
about your Venus as representing your feelings, what you love (in the
3rd, communicating with others), women (combined with the Moon
placement), your earnings, and think about whether the BML makes
these areas of your life worse than you would ordinarily expect
considering the aspects to Venus and it's ruler.

An important thing to remember with Black Moon Lilith is that we are
not dealing with a planet or other body but a point in the Moon's
orbit. So you don't treat it like a planet. You can't consider
aspects as you would a planet. So there doesn't seem to be any
meaning to trines, squares, etc. I have found conjunctions within 3
deg to have some significance and I would consider an opposition if
it was exact or within 1-2 deg but that's it, I have not found other
aspects to work. Of course I am speaking of the true position. Mean
appears to work but once you start looking at the true it is obvious
the mean worked only because it is usually in the same house and
sign. When the mean and true are in a different house and sign,
that's where you can really see the difference.

If the true BML is Rx and the person has done past life regression
work, you can think of the house and sign and ask about past lives
that involve the house and sign. So in this case, were there past
lives with the 2nd wife, 3rd child, in-laws or was there a past life
where the belief system was too rigid or the person was killed for
their beliefs, etc. Or problems with the legal system, such as being
convicted for something you didn't do, or being a judge where you
sentenced an innocent person to death, etc. The Rx BML house and
sign will describe an important past life.

Now let's look at asteroid Lilith. Assume asteroid Lilith is at
10Scorpio23 Rx in the 11th in Scorpio with Saturn at 8 Scorpio.
There will be problems with the AQ issues, and with Saturn there,
probably every AQ issue you can think of. Liz Greene's book on
Saturn is excellent on what Saturn in the 11th and in Scorpio mean,
You need to get that clear so you can distinguish between the effects
of Saturn from the effects of asteroid Lilith. Basically, it makes
things worse. You need to think about all AQ issues, such as
circulation, central nervous system, unexpected events, bureaucratic
nightmares, groups, organizations, friends, hopes dreams and wishes,
etc. For aspects to asteroid Lilith look at Martha Lang-Wescott's
book, Mechanics of the Future: Asteroids. It is terrific.

For asteroids, the usual practice is conjunctions and oppositions only
with a 1 deg orb but I find up to 3 deg works, but not a minute over 3
deg. When the asteroid is exact or within 1 deg the conjunction and
opposition work well, at 2 deg. the influence is less and at 3 deg it
is very weak. Beyond that it doesn't work.

Now let's look at Dark Moon Lilith, which is in Sag in the first
house 3 deg from your Mars, which is conj. the ASC. Think about all
first house issues, especially body and head because the 1st house
represents body and the 6th house healt . So the ruler of the ASC
will represent any major physical problems that will come up. Any
you don't see there you will find in the 6th or in the ruler of the
6th. Since the DML is in Sag, ask about hip or thigh problems or
incurable conditions. In addition, think about Mars problems, such
as muscle problems, chronic fatigue syndrome, arthritis, etc., or
anything that impedes movement or action, including fear of
confrontation, fear of expressing anger, experiences of having been
in physical danger, etc. Check Rex Bill's Book of Rulerships to be
sure you haven't missed anything. When you are looking at the
meaning of the sign be sure to consider the pitfalls of the sign in
general. For example, since the Mars and DML are in Sag there will
probably be a problem with being impatient with details and forming
opinions and beliefs too quickly without a good foundation for them.
And since the DML is in Sag, it emphasizes the problems BML creates
in the 9th house.

You can use Delphine Jay's definitions for DML, but not her
calculations (details on books about Dark Moon Lilith are in the 3
Liliths Info). The correct Dark Moon Lilith calculations from
astronomer Dr. Georges Waltemath are found in Solar Fire and Riyal
(For Riyal, see 3 Liliths Info under Freeware). Most programs use
the Sepharial calculations, which are erroneous. With Dark Moon
Lilith I find that exact or within 1-2 deg works well with conj. and
opp. Delphine Jay uses other aspects but always emphasizes "exact or
in close aspect" for the orb.

So that is how I approach looking at all 3 Liliths in a chart. It
takes time and you have to take everything one step at a time and
really give it some thought but it's worth it. If you have any
feedback or questions on what I have written please feel free to
e-mail me.

Sue Simmons
sueastro@e...

Lilith

- by Sue Simmons

There are 3 astrological points with the name Lilith: asteroid Lilith, Black Moon Lilith and Dark Moon Lilith. They are all called Lilith because the way you interpret them in a chart is related to the Lilith story.

Probably the earliest version of Lilith is from Mesopotamia in the 13 -15th centuries BC where she was the Goddess of Death in the form of an owl. She was called Lilith because it means "screech owl". The version of Lilith we know today is as the first wife of Adam, before Eve, although she is not mentioned in the Bible or in ancient Hebrew religious writings. This version seems to come from a medieval writing that purports to be part of Hebrew writings but is not. The writer probably took the older legend and Christianized it by making it part of a Bible story. Lilith became the woman from hell, the anti-female.

There are many versions and interpretations of her story. As the first wife of Adam she refused to be subordinate to him. She refused to lie beneath him in sexual relations. She wanted to lie side by side or on top. When he tried to force her she used her powers to fly away. This part of her story has interested many women today . They like to think of Lilith as a feminist heroine, saying she was courageous and asserting her equality. However, in the original story she was more a symbol of the psychologically damaged. If you interpret the Liliths in a chart as heroic or admirable it will not be accurate. The Liliths in your chart operate as places where you are having trouble, where you don't fit in with the norm.

After Adam refused to have her as his wife, she ran off and mated with many demons, which was strictly against God's will. God sent 3 angels to her to get her to stop but she didn't obey so He started killing her children at the rate of 100 per day. She went mad with grief and started killing other people's children. Painful issues surrounding children, birth, unsuitable sexual partners and parts of your life where you just can't function like others do are Lilith issues.

Asteroid Lilith

The glyph for asteroid Lilith is a straight horizontal line with 4 small vertical lines sticking up from it , sort of like an upturned rake head, and on the right below the horizontal line is a very small mark like a capital L or V. Some say it is an upturned hand which could be either rejecting or expecting something different. It takes about 5 years for Lilith to travel through all 12 signs, since it does retrograde a lot. It orbits the Sun in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. The asteroid Lilith has to do with all aspects of difficult sexual relationships.

Black Moon Lilith

Black Moon Lilith is the astrologer's term for the lunar apogee. Since the Moon has an elliptical (oval) orbit and a wobbly one at that, the distance the Moon is from the Earth varies. The lunar apogee is the mathematical point in the sky where the Moon is farthest from the Earth. The reason this point is called Lilith is because in the Lilith story she was acting out the difficult (distant) part of the Moon, in murderous rage, vindictiveness, and insanity. The glyph for Black Moon Lilith is a black crescent pointing east, similar to a 3rd quarter Moon, but with a cross underneath.

Black Moon Lilith can be calculated as mean or true, similar to the way the Moon's nodes are calculated as mean or true. But in the case of the Black Moon there can be as much as 30 degrees difference between the mean and true so it is possible for them to be in different signs or houses. Deciding which to use is easier if you look at charts of people you know where the mean and true are in different signs and houses. The true is the more accurate placement but an ephemeris for it has only been available for about 10 years so not as much work has been done using it. The ephemeris for the mean has been available for about 100 years and astrologers in Europe have been using it almost that long. That's why you see the mean used more in articles and books.

The mean moves about 39 degrees per year or about 3 deg 8 min per month and does not retrograde. The true Black Moon retrogrades a lot and can move anywhere from 9 deg to well over 70 deg per year. It also can move up to 4 deg per day or stay at the same degree for several days so it is important to get an accurate placement for the true. An ephemeris in a book is fine for mean but not for the true. You can get the true in Win*Star software, Halloran software, or Riyal freeware or you can use the Swiss Ephemeris online to get both true and mean. Directions for using the Swiss Ephemeris to find Black Moon Lilith are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3Liliths Click on 3 Liliths Info, then scroll down to the Black Moon section. It takes about 9 years for the mean or true to pass through all 12 signs.

Dark Moon Lilith

Unlike Black Moon Lilith, Dark Moon Lilith is a real body in the sky, a second Moon to the Earth that doesn't reflect light, hence the name Dark Moon. The glyph for Dark Moon Lilith is a zero with a forward slash running diagonally through it. There is some controversy over whether it is really there since it can only be seen as a spot moving across the Sun. However, there have been sightings since the 1600's as detailed in Delphine Jay's book, Interpreting Lilith, pg. 1-6. Dr. Georges Waltemath, an astronomer, documented it in 1898 and came up with calculations which gave it an orbit of 119 days around the Earth.

The astrologer Sepharial used the Waltemath calculations to come up with an ephemeris but he made errors which caused a difference of anywhere from about 2 to over 40 degrees. Delphine Jay, Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson, Mae Ludlum-Wilson and others copied Sepharial's calculations. The original Waltemath calculations can be found in Solar Fire software or Riyal freeware. Many astrologers use the Sepharial calculations with success, but the Waltemath calculations are more accurate. Dark Moon Lilith can be interpreted similarly to the other Liliths. Delphine Jay says Dark Moon Lilith is a place where you must operate impersonally because operating personally there will never be successful.

Further information on all 3 Liliths can be found at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3Liliths/