posted February 04, 2007 12:48 AM              

However, this person's got a lot going on. I see someone with very intense emotions and psychological needs. There's big ego issues and problems with self-worth there too. At first glance I'm seeing more a borderline personality than BD, but it need to spend a little time looking at it more closely.

posted February 04, 2007 12:55 AM              

I have a Sun/Moon/Saturn T-square. That's all. Depression, but nothing compared to him...

posted February 04, 2007 02:00 AM              

OK, after a few minute to digest this chart, as well as my late night snack, I'm going with my first instincts. He's mor elielly borderline than bipolar. That doesn't mean he's not bipolar - he could be both, or neither. I'm not infalliable, right? LOL. But I'm really not seeing the bipolar with this one.

Why do I say borderline personality? Because personality stem from a poorly developed ego and indentity issues that have snowballed into very destructive patterns of behavior, and that's what really stands out in this chart to me. It's going to seem like a subtle difference but that's what I'm sensing here.

Borderline personalities usually are women, but the men with this disorder are *ugh*. You can recognize a borderline personalities by their incessant need to make drama and then be the center of that drama. Think Courtney Love - she's your textbook borderline.

There's other things that come with this disorder. Attention seeking, conflict seeking, manipulative behavior, seem very needy and clingy, and very moody. They are likely to be substance abusers and drug seekers, and often times appear to have no shame about it (although when confronted they turn on the water works). They may attempt suicide, but often these attempt are more for getting attention than actual attempts. They usually have an very "unbalanced" energy about them, like the slightest thing can set them into a rage or a downward spiral of weeping. People around borderlines may constantly struggle to discern whether the borderline's emotions are sincere or a show. This can be very confusing because most of the time, it's a little of both - they use their genuine emotions to manipulate people in very self-serving ways. Nice, huh?

Borderlines have a "borderline" relationships with *everyone* that means anything to them, hence the name of this disorder. Everything is either love or hate, and every relationship is constantly on the verge of flipflopping to the other extreme, sometimes several times a week. Borderlines tend to obsess over people - be it their idea of "love" or hatred/spite/revenge, they tend to get consumed. WHen they get consumed, they can get compulsive, or rather *just plain unhinged.* These are the people who, if they think you're crossed them, will slash your tires, throw bricks throw your front window, and follow you to a public place and make a scene that requires police intervention.

Does that sound at all like your ex?

As for your ex's chart:

Both his afflicted Merc adn afflicted Sun are in the 1st. And they're both in Pisces, which isn't so bad, except they're in the 1st. There's a lot of ego confusion here.

Npetune in the 10th sq Merc in the 1st - he has very confused, vague ideas about self-worth. He probably seeks affirmation through other people, but there's too much ambivalence. As soon as he seeks help form another person, he feels threatened by them. He may mistakingly turn intimacy into power struggles in a strange mirror of his own inner ego conflict. This aspect also suggests poor resiliency - there's a lot self-sabotage with that that is very destructive for him. And he doesn't "bounce back" or learn well from his own mistakes - they just compound on each other. He likely has a very difficult time facing the reality about himself and his behavior. He may lie or "spin" things to avoid teh awful truth. This is a problem that will likely haunt him well into later life.

Sun in 1st sq Mars in 4th - this is a doozy for him. It is a very reactive aspect, and both planets are in personal houses, so it's all about the ego and his personal needs. There's an inner battle here too - if that Merc sq Neptune is his Eastern Front, this is his Western Front. His Sun identity is constantly under attack by teh desires and motives of Mars. The house they are in represent two very diffeent directions as well. This makes him feel very insecure and unsure - and while he feels the needs to put on a brave face, he will be looking for exterior sourrces of security for his ego and identity - that means codependence on other people. I suspect there's a lot of drama with this aspect too, which is certainly a drain an everyone around him. This square is more easily resolved than the Merc-Nept one, but the problem is, there's so many noisy, hard aspects int his chart, I doubt he is any where close to sorting this one out. But until he does, he'll likely keep teh drama rolling, worming his way into one codependent relationship after another.

Now that t-square- that does hint of something a little more troubling. normally I'd say "Saturn as the apex can be a good thing!" Well, only if it's in a Saturn-friendly sign, and that's not Cancer.

I see past trauma with this t-sqaure, This is a "blocked" t-sqaure with a lot of tense energy. The 8th house suggest deeep psyhcological problems like a phobia or trauma, while 2nd house suggests issues with personal security, including conflicts over material possession and money or the lack thereof. Apex in the 6th suggest resolution can be found through healthy and service, but Saturn is in conflict with Cancer, so the resolution is frustrated.

Moon conjunct Uranus suggest very erratic and compulsive emotions, "on/off" or "hot/cold" mood swings and problems with empathy toward others. This is a hard aspect alone, but in the 8th, I suspect these emotional problems stem from something very deep in his psyche, a deep wound from childhood. Jupiter-Chiron opposing - I wonder if a death in his family very early on or an sudden severe illness in childhood traumatized him. If not, there's likely something just as wounding in his past.Whatever that early wound is, it has direct effect on his personal security.

That early wound needs to resolve through Saturn, which isn't going to happen anytime soon. Saturn's slow to begin with. But in cancer....oh boy. This guy probably needs YEARS of therapy, and I'll leave it at that. Until then, he's likely to be fall into self-destructive behavior. Not so much drug abuse, but things like bad relationships, maybe abusive behavior, impulsive decision making (especially about money or jobs), reckless spending, etc. He might even have a gambling problem.

posted February 04, 2007 10:40 AM              

Simply because one of the main characteristics of bipolar disorder is LACKIGN SELF IMAGE...Feeling that ONE S SENSE OF SELF OR IDENTITY IS ABSENCE..and that feeling could vary from abstract to emotional to physical (i.e. not seeing one's reflection in the mirror)

And I always did think that mutuable signs because of their adabtibility and moldy nature, they have less of a SOLID ABSOLOUTE IDENTITY or CHARACTER if u know what i mean..

posted February 04, 2007 01:25 PM              

Monmonitaa - I don't mean to be rude, because I don't know you. But what you say is laughable. If you have studied psychology, then you know no one has an "SOLID ABSOLUTE IDENTITY or CHARACTER." That's insane! That's dogmatic thinking, not science. No human being has an "absolute" identity - we all are constantly growing and changing, always in flux. Furthermore our identity and character is *relational* meaning it's dependant of our relationships with others, our environment and our experiences. Those are constantly changing too. In fact change is necessary to form an identity - people who are stagnant don't grow or mature, and so how do you think they can form an identity?

Just because a mutable sign is more changeable does not make it less capable of forming an sense of self. In a way, mutable signs lead to greater experiences so there's a unique potential for forming that identity, just as fixed and cardinal have their own unique potential.

However you are implying something I think is not only faulty but dangerous: that there's something inherently "diseased" about mutable signs. I don't see it and I won't accept that. Mutable signs have a specific nature, and they play a specific role in the zodiac cycle, as I pointed out a few posts ago. There's an order and balance here. If one part in that cycle is inherently "diseased" then the whole of the system is too (and lutable make up 1/3 of that cycle). But the zodiac doesn't see it as that - it sees as each modality as having complimentary nature and inhernetly good. It sees "disease" as imbalance, something NOT inherent ot he nature of the signs. Disease has to be something that is affected upon the cycle and its signs in a way that disrupts the inherent nature. And all the sign seach have their own strengths and their own vulnerablities - each can be become "diseased" and imbalanced of other factors. If a mutable's changeablity is detriment to its forming an indentity,then so is fixed signs' potential for stagnation and resistence to new experience and cardinal signs' inclination to self-centeredness and impulsivity. All of these could seriously impede forming an healthy, individual identity, each int heir ow. And I don't see any of those things being any more or less detrimenta;, so I don't see the logic of singling out the mutables.

Also if you are going to try to reconcile psychology a with astrology, you're going to have do better than this. Sorry that's blunt, but I think you can spare yourself a lot of foolishness you realize that now. If you going to say things like "Lack of identity is one of the main characteristic of BD" you have to reconcile that to astrology. And what is the principle symbol of personal identity in astrology? The Sun, right? OK, so go look at my friend's chart I posted, who's a dx's BD. Where's his sun - in Cancer, in the 2nd house. If you're going to say his lackof indentity is due to mutable signs, houses hell even planets ruled by mutable signs, how are you going to do that? You have too aspects that are out of orb, one with Mercury in the 3rd and another with Jupiter in Virgo. What else are you going to say? Saturn in Sag, which is conjunct an angle (adds strength) and harmoniously aspected, to Mercury even? That seems suggest the opposite of what you want. How about ASC in Gem? Again, unless you can make a solid argument how the ASC can be so detrimental to the inner psyche to cause something as profoundly neurological as BD, you need to set that aside. Remember this has to make sense in both psychology and astrology. So sorry, for something this complex, you HAVE to do better than "Let's blame the mutable signs!."

posted February 04, 2007 01:40 PM              

It is not uncommon for long-time PTSD sufferers to also display borderline personality traits. I have PTSD myself and was a "borderline" borderline in my late teens - fortuntely 12 Step Programs instilled enough behavior modification in me at a young enough age so I avoided blossoming into a "psycho b*tch." LOL But essentially, if you were able to walk into any psych hospital, you could easily find people who suffered from abuse as children who are now raging borderlines. It's a very tragic cycle.

posted February 05, 2007 12:59 PM              

i think there is a huuuuuuuuge misunderstanding there....You re taking my words too literally. I'm not writing in a scientific journal here.I m using language I would use in a casual conversation - so before u start forming all these assumptions and judgements i d advise you to TAKE IT EASY!

Second of all I sincerely apologise to all for thinking the thread was about BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER RATHER THAN BIPOLAR- MISREAD THAT.

Then let me clarify my points- i m sorry if i wasn't clear enough

I didnt mean to shed negative light on mutuble signs- in fact i am one myself. I apologise for the use of words like "lack of identity". I do agree with u that the changeable nature of mutuable signs is something to be cherished and like all qualities is a double edged sword with the good and the bad. And ofcourse that is relative to environment coz like u said everything is relational. And I just happened to specifically focus on the negative danger of it from my experience with other ppl with mutuable signs - who find more difficulty than other people with figuring out who they are and what they want.

On the other hand I am perfectly aware that unadaptable people are vulnerable to a whole load of other difficulties. Not to say that any personality is BAD OR DISEASEd. Just to acknowledge the fact that every inherent characteristic comes with its unique positive qualities, and as well as its vulnerabilities.

Second of all.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread which apparently show that bipolar is not just a mutuble sign thing. I think i should face a tribunal for not readingthem, reading the wrong name of the disorder in question, not making a thorough research and review on every person who has and their charts, BEFORE OPENING MY MOUTH. Really I should not express an innocent thought based on some personal experience on an online forum.....

posted February 06, 2007 02:28 PM            

Hmm, wow. You are completely jumping hoops and bounds here, I think.

I haven't gone into full detail about myself here or what I have discussed with anyone here. And being a former psych major myself, I am well aware of what mental health professionals can and cannot do, but thanks for teaching me the truth.

I was looking around for anything in my chart that may or may not imply that I am bipolar or anything else, out of sheer interest. I'm really not taking astrology seriously anymore. Too many threads looking for what means what and why. Too many correlations that could mean anything.

As for how I present myself... I've lived a miserable existence for most of my developemental life and beyond that. I really don't care what the hell people think about what "bipolar" means. If it turns out that I have it, I will be quite relieved. I can't help myself by myself anymore. The world moves too fast to wait around for me to feel better.

We shall now return to you feeling special.