posted June 03, 2005 09:50 PM            

I got the text recognition software I've been pining for and I want to copy the chapters for your Neptunes, Saturns and Plutos and Uranuses (pixie! no!) from Liz Greene and Steven Forrest as promised.....

.....but cannot locate the thread where you gave me their positions in your natal -- Help! Also want to do Saturn in Leo for when it moves there somewhere around July 17th.....

posted June 04, 2005 03:11 AM            

You doll.

Dollface
samooch

I'm Uranus *hee hee* 7`19 Scorpio ( fourth house)
Saturn *grrrrrr* 16`1 Leo ( big stooooopid first house)

posted June 04, 2005 10:08 AM            

DayDreamer, where are you?

posted June 04, 2005 10:53 AM              

This is what I have in my chart:
Saturn - Virgo 5th
Uranus - Scorpio 6th
Neptune - Sagittarius 7th
Pluto - Libra 6 th

posted June 06, 2005 12:30 AM            

Sorry

I was drunk.

Neptune fifth house ( conjunct Venus) Sagittarius 12'20
Pluto Libra third house 12'27
(obviously sextiling Neptune...)

posted June 06, 2005 03:03 PM            

I'm happy for your 6-year milestone, loves & hugs your way! Gemini Moon sounds like it's keeping you twinsie (up/down).....

Hi DD ~

Hope things are going well.....

Happy New Moon to both of you!! A brand new start.....

I brought my Neptune, Saturn, Uranus, Pluto books in to work to scan applicable chapters on the killer-scanner here (rather than my slow little Canon at home) and ended up being hijacked for a working lunch meeting, so will have to do it tomorrow. Then I email it home to myself, run the text-recognition software, and VOILA! it will appear at LL!! Sorry it's been so long, but it's on it's way soon, sweeties.....

posted June 06, 2005 03:16 PM              

happy new moon to you too!

posted June 11, 2005 09:40 PM            

Ain't forgotten! I am still working the kinks out of my text-recognition software. OmniPage is a huge app and I'm still struggling in kindergarten! Have had about two successes, the rest failures. I didn't get any instruction manual with the app and "Help" doesn't help! So it's a trial and error exercise.....will be back with your Pluto in Libra/6th (Pluto is the first book I scanned) as soon as I've got it to work.

posted June 12, 2005 05:57 PM              

EEhhh that sounds like a lot of work!! If I knew anything about OmniPage I would give you a hand with that. Are there any instructions online???

Zala I know you can conquer OmniPage!!! I'm rooting for you

posted June 16, 2005 09:03 PM            

I just posted Pluto in the 6th House over at sue g's thread: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005653.html ....

Pixie ~

I'm comin' doll (I love being your "straight-man", have at it!).....with tMars oppo nVenus the past couple days, it's been a near thing!!! Back with yours in III in a few minutes.....

'Zala

posted June 16, 2005 09:15 PM            

oh, okay....

I love when people come for me.

okay?

posted June 16, 2005 09:34 PM            

Oh pix,
When I just now started to proofread your Pluto in III, my jaw dropped and the hair stood up on the back of my neck and arms.....YIKES! Finishing proofing will post in a sec.....

posted June 16, 2005 09:45 PM            

quote:

---

PLUTO IN THE THIRD HOUSE
THE THIRD HOUSE ARENA: Perception; Communication
THE THIRD HOUSE PITS: Chaos; Verbal Viciousness

THE TRADITION...
...the third house is associated with speaking and listening. That notion is typically extended to include writing and reading. In the modern world, we take it a step further and include broadcasting, computer networking, satellite uplinks and downlinks, radio, video, desktop publishing, you name it. The human urge to gather data and express it: that's the third house.
But there's another third house process, one that underlies all those avenues of communication, at least ideally: thinking. This is the house that seems best to reflect all the microcircuitry of the mind itself: our habitual underlying paradigms of thought, such as "thesis+antithesis=synthesis" or "every truth has two sides." Planets and signs connected with your third house will provide sharp insight into those tectonic structures that are the foundation upon which all your insights rest.
Let's go one step deeper: before thought, there must be perception. It is difficult to conceive of a mind with absolutely nothing to perceive and digest. Even the embryo in the womb is flooded with external sensations — light, sound, mother's moody biochemistry. Could thoughts even form in an eternally silent, isolated mind? Admittedly, that's a serious philosophical question, but the basic logic of the third house suggests that perception, thought, and finally communication are a kind of triadic psychic package. If you want one, you've got to accept the other two.

YOUR HIGH DESTINY
Most astrologers have had the thoroughly delightful experience of astounding a skeptic. Astrology works; but almost universally nowadays people are "educated" into believing that it does not. "So, 1981 was quite a year for you in the relationship department, huh?" And the skeptic's jaw drops.
How quick we humans are to construct models of the truth, believe them, and then blithely ignore our own real experiences. Individuals do it. Cultures do it. Astrology's foes do it — and so do astrologers.
Your high destiny is that of the paradigm-buster. You were born to shake people out of their comfortable certainties and render them naked and open to the raw truth that's pouring in through their senses, denied and unobserved.
Your destiny in this regard is inextricably bound up with communication. Generally that means language, whether it's spoken in private whispers, broadcast over the airwaves, printed, rhymed or reasoned. Sometimes people with Pluto in the third house do their communicating in other ways, using photography or video or cartooning to get the images across. Whatever form it takes, it's all communication.
And for you it must be distinctly Plutonian communication: which is to say that the teachings destined to pass through you into the larger community are often initially shocking in nature. They bother people, unsettle them. But it doesn't end there. It ends with the listeners — the ones who are willing to hang in there open-mindedly — being energized and inspired.
Meanwhile, the ones who do not hang in there may begin plotting your crucifixion. Part of the paradigm you are living out is the perilous tale of the bearer of true tidings. The world will resist your voice. Upon that we can count.

YOUR DISTORTING WOUND
Any third house planet functions as a perceptual bias. The same could be said for any sign connected to your third house, especially the sign on the cusp of the house. Thus, we all inevitably observe our surroundings through a system of filters. A suspicious person is more likely to observe dark, secret motives in someone's behavior than is a trusting person. On the other hand, a trusting soul will be quicker to see all the angels standing in line in the grocery store.
With Pluto in your third house, you have an innate perceptual bias in the Plutonian direction — which is to say that ever since you were born, you've been skilled at picking up unspoken, taboo or denied energies in any situation. I'd like to start with a trivial illustration. I picture you as a small child sitting down to Thanks-giving dinner with the family. Granny burps. And nobody misses a beat. Politely, they act as if nothing has happened. And you were dumbfounded. Not that the burp was any great offense; what held your attention was the perfection of the collective denial of the event.
Burps are only the beginning. Far darker realities exist, realities to which you are perceptually attuned by instinct. Daddy is drinking more and more lately. Sister is sullen and distant. You take it all in. Are others denying these realities or simply not seeing them? Often it's the latter. "Reality" is largely a mythic belief system, and part of the human heritage is an extraordinary ability to enter the shared myth of family or community and not see anything else. That's true of most of us, but not you. Psychologically, you have the eye of a private detective: penetrating, calculating and suspicious.
When a person knows very well what he or she is seeing but no one else agrees, a predictable series of wounding events unfolds. Here's your story: First, in innocence, you spoke out and got clobbered for it. The clobbering may have been literal, or it may have taken the form of everyone looking at you pityingly as though you were out of your mind. Then you clammed up...and concentrated silently on the negative perception.
That's the critical point; the more others denied that dark piece of the truth, the more you felt compelled to study it, claim it and inwardly insist on its reality. Thus, a distortion entered your perceptual system: a bias toward emphasizing the Plutonian content of any complex reality.

YOUR NAVIGATIONAL ERROR
Raw Plutonian realities, by their nature, tend to make us feel either angry or sad. Or both. Your distorting wound, if not addressed and healed, turns your mind in a suspicious, doubting, negative direction. All perceptions must pass initially though this house and be filtered there. Since one of Pluto's qualities is an attunement to frightening, uncomfortable truths, your mind could become dominated by those perspectives.
Since anything in the third house is wired directly to your tongue, you will then tend toward bitterness and harshness in your speech, angrily and unconsciously using psychological insight to hurt people. Misunderstanding and miscommunication will abound in your life, and your own mind will be filled with paranoid, leery constructions of reality while people around you complain incomprehensibly about your "tone of voice" or your "attitude." That ...or if the rest of your astrological nature is very fierce, they may simply fear you and nervously watch their p's and q's whenever you're around.
Your "paranoid, leery" interpretations of events may at times be 100% valid. The point here is not so much that there is a proneness on your part toward ungrounded horror-fantastical perspectives; it is far more linked to a distorting emphasis upon the Plutonian — an emphasis which can be traced directly back to your early solitude in facing life's darker dynamics. You were isolated by what you saw; you could cling to the truth of what was pouring in through your senses, or you could lose your mind. That was your choice. Both possibilities were very real. The better of the two choices lay in clinging to the truth of what you were seeing ...but even that choice hurt you. How? By biasing your mind in the Plutonian direction. You could spend your life seeing the blood and missing the flowers.

THE HEALING METHOD
As always, in considering the dark side of the Plutonian equations, we must underscore that these bleak possibilities are in no way your fate. Through the Plutonian process of remembering the truth of what actually happened to you, they can be unraveled and higher energies come into play. That is pure Pluto, no matter what house it's in: we liberate ourselves by making the unconscious conscious.
For you, that process is utterly bound to speech. The third house sacrament at the heart of your healing method is conversation.
There is an eternal dance in the process of building real intimacy. One person takes a little risk and shares something a bit more revealing than normal party talk. The other person responds in a way that unmistakably acknowledges both the information and the risk. Then it's the second person's turn, and maybe the pair move a little deeper together ...and move a little further into each others' confidence. With Pluto in the third house, in this conversational process, you heal. Specifically, the very aspects of your character which were driven into silence and isolation by the unsettling, taboo power of what you perceived are now welcomed back from the cold.
In a nutshell, your healing method lies in putting the more intense aspects of your inner life into words. That process can occur in profound, conversation-intensive friendship. It can occur in a deep psychotherapeutic context... although here we must make cautionary reference to that breed of "therapist" so wedded to forcing you into his or her "positive" or "negative" belief system that the simple, healing act of telling one's own story spontaneously and uninhibitedly is stymied.
Writing is another healing method, since writing is also a kind of conversation. People with Pluto in the third house often recover their true natures through journalizing or soulful correspondence. If the rest of the chart supports it, we might even find healing here through poetry, story-telling, film-making, or novel-writing.
All the methods come down to one technique: tell your story.

THE ENERGIZING VISION
You are a Truth-sayer. Or a Teacher, in the best sense of the word ...which is to say that you are one who shocks us into thinking for ourselves. That is the destiny with which you were born. Circumstance may have done its best to beat that quality out of you, but that's still what you are.
Snatch that power back from the forces that have tried to rob you of it and you'll find yourself full of fire and energy. Nothing in this world will better fill you with the heat of life than a chance to punch through the veil of comforting phoniness and superficial politeness that threatens to turn us all into stick figures.
There is an element of confrontation inherent in what you are born to say, but not meanness or pointless destruction. Still, not everyone will be ready to hear your message: accept that. But you have been given three extraordinary gifts: a penetrating eye, a nose for sniffing out denial and collusion, and a hypnotic way with a tale. Use them!
In the end, it comes down to this: with Pluto in the third house, you must reclaim your voice. And you must hold onto it, even in the face of the forces that would have you silent.

---

Hugs & kisses to you, kiddo! Man, I've still got tremors from that psychic whack to the abdomen caused by reading this and knowing you a little.....
'Zala

posted June 17, 2005 04:39 PM            

Thank you!

I like the way he writes!
I should say.. while I identified wholly with these things he said.... and i can relate them to my life.. I find immense healing through stories and talking and sharing and I DO need to be 'deeper' than others in order to feel that level of connectedness....
I think it is somewhat modified by the fact that it is Libra. I also have Mercury there ( which, in fact, would make communication even more important!)
I can't tell you how many times I have needed.. absolutely needed to sit and talk and get out all those things I see in a stagnant relationship's dynamics. Whether it was my mother, groing up, or a lover, or my husband now... I need, vitally, to be able to go there.
I do see things as they are, and am not afraid to open up that shadow box either....
I obviously need to vent through poetry as well....*You've visited Yellow Wax....*

posted June 17, 2005 09:32 PM              

Thanks again Zala

posted June 28, 2005 09:26 PM            

I've got tPluto sextiling nNeptune for another week or so, and I think Neptune wants out of the confinement of my computer and into the LL-Ocean!

Therefore, pixie-pie, here is yours. The book is "The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption" by Liz Greene. Heavy, deep going at times, but very worthwhile, great food for thought!

quote:

---

Neptune in the 5th House

The 5th house is traditionally associated with children and creativity. But the "children" of the 5th house are not necessarily biological, and our biological children are represented here not in the context of our capacity for parenting, but as those physical creations upon which we project our inner images of immortality and specialness. The 5th house might more appropriately be called the house of the inner child, for it is the archetypal image of the divine child that stands behind the sense of specialness associated with the Sun, the natural ruler of the 5th, and the urge to "play" and spontaneously express our childlike hearts. The 5th house is thus as "religious" as the 9th, and perhaps more so, since the pursuit of meaning as reflected by the 9th is largely intellectual in nature, while the experience of inner divinity, which we encounter through the 5th, in both our children and our creative efforts, is direct, unmediated, and irrefutable.
The divine child whom we meet when Neptune is in the 5th is the Christ-child, the Mithras-child, the progeny of heaven and the source of our redemption. Creative expression may thus become a means of salvation, for through it we can leave the darkness of the material world and enter into union with the source of life. But in order to pursue this kind of creative spirit we may feel impelled to suffer; for creativity allied to a 5th house Neptune carries with it the poignant vision of the Romantic poets. The artist must suffer for his or her creation, and is redeemed by it; yet the artist is also the mouthpiece for the divine, and carries the role of the redeemer of society. We should not be surprised to encounter Neptune in the 5th in the charts of poets such as E. T. A. Hoffmann, for whom creative expression was nothing less than the expression of God himself, or F. Scott Fitzgerald, whose novel, The Great Gatsby, is really a novel-length interpretation of Neptune in the 5th. Total immersion in the imaginal realm constitutes fusion with the deity; re-emerging into ordinary life is an expulsion from Eden, and a kind of death.
The 5th house is also known as the house of love. Love as described by the 5th is, however, a reflection of the Sun as lifegiver, and not specifically sexual; nor it is a relationship between equals. Solar love is an unbounded radiance which pours out toward people and objects as the Sun itself shines upon the Earth. Our 5th house "love affairs" are not really concerned with other people as individuals. We embark upon them in order to experience our lovingness toward those who orbit around us as the Earth does around the Sun. Through our recognition of our own capacity to love, we glimpse that which is godlike in ourselves. Neptune in the 5th conjures the love of the troubadours, for whom the beloved is a mirror, and the experience of passion is the gateway to union with the ineffable. The lover himself or herself scarcely matters. Ebertin, in describing Neptune in the 5th, mentions "a love of beauty and art... wastefulness, self-glorification, misdirected passion, seduction."10 It is hardly surprising that Neptune's passion might be "misdirected," as the other person is merely a mirror in which the individual glimpses the immortality of his or her own soul. With such a profound idealisation of love, one is likely to display a certain lack of discrimination in one's choices. Neptune in the 5th may be utterly in love with being in love. Yet love and suffering may live side by side, for it is through the experience of love that we, the suffering ones, are redeemed, and offer redemption to others who suffer. Neptune in the 5th is sometimes linked with deception in love, either as perpetrator or victim. This is also not surprising, due to the extreme idealisation and propensity for disillusionment which Neptune brings to romantic encounters.
Planets in the 5th describe what kind of things we are most naturally inclined to create; the experience of divinity through a 5th house planet will express itself in the form of the deity we encounter. Neptune's most characteristic creative products are those which link us to the oceanic source of life. A 5th house Neptune may, given sufficient containment, contribute to an artistic talent best expressed through media such as music, poetry, and drama. As our children are also our creations, we may bring Neptune's victim-redeemer mythology into the domain of our progeny. This can create many difficulties, since children are not mere extensions of our solar creative power, but are individuals in their own right, with a Sun and a 5th house in their own natal charts. With Neptune in the 5th, we may idealise our children to such a degree that we cannot discern their independent reality. Then we may truly suffer, since the child will probably resist this obliteration of his or her own identity in one way or another. Many individuals with Neptune in the 5th perceive in their children the light of their own potential divinity, incur the eventual rejection of their children, and feel martyred and victimised as a result. Neptune in the 5th may also perceive parenthood itself as martyrdom—the proof of loving self-sacrifice. Or one may try to play redeemer to a child who is perceived as helpless and vulnerable. Yet the parent with Neptune in the 5th may himself or herself secretly seek redemption through the child's love and dependence.
The Neptunian themes of sacrifice and suffering may take other forms in relation to offspring. Because Neptune's reluctance to define boundaries may bring a quality of deep unconsciousness to love affairs, "accidental" pregnancy--even in this modern era of readily available contraception—is not uncommon. Neptune in the 5th may sometimes be connected with an unhappy experience of abortion, as a result of this kind of unconsciousness. Sometimes the "accidental" pregnancy constitutes an instinctive means of binding a partner whom one is frightened of losing; and a marriage built upon such a foundation may be fraught from the outset with a sense of entrapment, bondage, and victimisation on the part of both people. The child who is born of this union may believe, as children usually do. that he or she is responsible for all the parents' subsequent unhappiness and frustration, and may react by becoming the sort of burden guaranteed to make a martyr out of the parent. Or the parents may
ultimately separate, and, if the usual acrimonious custody battle ensues, Neptune in the 5th may feel deeply victimised—either by the burden of being a single parent, or by having the child taken away. In these situations, no one wins. It is inappropriate to seek a culprit in such cases, as Neptune's desperate need to find fusion is not usually recognised by a young person caught in the throes of an apparent grand passion. But it may be helpful to discern, beneath Neptune's inclination to bow to some mysterious "karma," a pattern built upon unconscious choices and longings which are, ultimately, the individual's own.
Neptune in the 5th may occasionally be linked with unwelcome childlessness, or with a physically or mentally handicapped or ailing child. In these cases one cannot "blame" Neptune. Such unhappy situations also occur where there is no planet in the 5th, or an apparently benign planet such as Jupiter. The conclusion suggested by astrological evidence is that it is not the burden of an ill or handicapped child which is described by Neptune; it is the experience of a particular kind of suffering which the parent is predisposed to undergo. Because we are all different, individuals respond in varying ways to this kind of life challenge. Some parents are angry, and some are resigned; some institutionalise the child as quickly as possible, while others keep the child permanently at home even if other, healthier children suffer by the decision. Because no one can fully know or judge another's situation, no one can decide for another which of many options is "right." For Neptune, a profound sense of guilt and a longing for redemption through suffering may dictate that the "right" option is the path of martyrdom. Neptune in the 5th, when linked with the challenge of raising a handicapped child, describes the mythic background of sorrow and salvation which the parent, rather than the child, is likely to carry within. Compassion and the opening of the heart may be the rewards of the experience. So, too, may be a deepened sense of religious or spiritual awareness. And so, too, may be the self-immolating propensities of the martyr, for whom suffering through one's child may one day provide a passport into Paradise. Consciousness of one's feelings is extremely important—not least for the sake of the child. In the case of those who desperately long for children but cannot have them, it is possible that some honest questioning about the desperation might be of value. If Neptune in the 5th perceives children as a vehicle for redemption, then inability to bear them may indeed seem a lifelong sentence of exile from Paradise. It may not be so when the desire for children is linked with less global needs, which could be partially if not completely met by other means. Self-pity may in such cases not be the most constructive expression of Neptune in the 5th. Something more wise within the individual may be seeking to express the redemptive longings of Neptune through some other, noncorporeal kind of child.
When Neptune is in the 5th, creative outlets are essential, for real people such as lovers and offspring cannot carry the mythic idealisations of Neptune without eventually falling off their pedestals. Neptune's compassion and sensitivity may reflect a gift for interacting with children, and not only one's own. But the planet's most benign expression in the natural house of the Sun is ultimately through those creative vehicles which can offer an immediate experience of the mystery which lies embedded within the sense of “I". "Children," "speculation," and "love affairs" seem easier—at least initially—because they are instinctive and do not require reflection. Creative work demands the discipline of Saturn and the self-definition of the Sun, which Neptune resists. Yet paradoxically, it is through creative effort that Neptune's redemptive longing can be fulfilled, at least in part, through discovering the divine child within. 10. Ebertin, The Combination of Stellar Influences, p. 51.

---

'Zala

posted June 28, 2005 09:40 PM            

Your Neptune in VII is over here http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005445.html

posted June 29, 2005 01:40 AM              

not doing too bad, how about you?

thanks for finding Neptune VII again. I printed it, but I misplaced it somewhere.