posted July 23, 2005 11:25 AM              

I know there are times when you should not read the chart or restrictions. What I want to know is this. If Saturn and the Sun are both at zero degrees (here in Leo), can that chart still be read .. or is that rule just for the Moon. And also if (querent)Sag must be Me or if I can be Venus. When I first drew this chart I couldn;t even read it because the ascendant was at 1 degree, now I am not sure because it looks like the Sun is torching Saturn, though that might not matter since technically Saturn shouldn't be a significator or the guy anyway?

info:

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posted July 23, 2005 08:39 PM              

The question was is he sexually attracted to me?

posted July 24, 2005 10:35 AM            

Ascendant-wise you're ok; the stricture is to not use the chart if the AC is between 0 and 3 degrees (too premature to be judged). As far as other strictures go, you seem to be ok. There's no stricture that rules out interpretation if Sun or Saturn are in the early degrees of a sign - that just shows a changing/changed situation.

In this chart, as the querent, you're represented by the ruler of the AC - Jupiter. Your friend (the quesited) is represented by Mercury (ruler of the 7th house in Gemini). The Moon is used as a co-ruler of the querent, or the main significator if the AC ruler is retrograde or otherwise weak. Venus is the natural ruler of young women, and Mars of young men, unless the AC and DC have that reversed in the chart, but most horary astrologers don't revert to these when you have strong significators.

To figure out the answer to your question, you should be looking for reception and positive aspects between your significators. I peeked at your chart, and it seems that you have some translation of light. Check out this site for more info on that: http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson4/lesson4.html

And yes, Saturn is combust in your chart, being too close to the sun; it just means that Saturn is weakened here - you can figure out what Saturn is to you, by figuring out what houses Saturn rules in the chart.

posted July 24, 2005 05:55 PM            

I'm sorry to hear you had to go through all that you did! And, OMG, that is a complicated situation! But, no worries, it can be figured out! In horary, they say to try & keep it simple, so let's try that.

(I have actually used the 7th house for the quesited for a few horary charts for a similar situation, but those cases were a bit different, in that only one of them is married, and the marriage is very new & the querent hasn't settled into it & made it hers as yet.) Since you say you're both in married, committed relationships, i think we should use the 7th to describe your spouse, and the 5th to signify him. Check out this site for more on houses in horary charts: http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson2/lesson2.html

So, with this change, we see that you're still signified by Jupiter and the quesited by Mars, who happens to be exalted in Aries, and in the 5th house as well. There don't seem to be any aspects between those two planets. The Moon, your co-ruler, doesn't aspect Mars either. Pluto (your co-ruler by virtue of being in 1st house) does trine Mars, though I'm not sure how much this can be relied upon, since Pluto is retrograde. I think it can be counted, but weakly, due to the retrograde.

But wait... you can turn the chart to see things from his POV. That means that his house, the 5th house, becomes his AC. You will be signified also by the ruler of his turned 5th house (unless there's anyone else in the picture for him), which is in Leo, ruled by the Sun - looks like you're exalted too, and your situation just changed somehow (as the Sun is in 0 degs. of Leo). By the way, his wife is now signified by Venus, as his 7th falls in Libra! Looks like all 3 of you are in changing situations, as Mars, Sun & Venus are either in early or late degrees of the signs they're in.

Mars and Sun are applying toward a square with each other, which acts either as a sextile or trine. Check out this URL for more on aspects in horary charts: http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson4/lesson4.html

By the by, have you looked at the declinations to see if there are any parallels or contra-parallels between your significators? Also, if you use that guide to houses in horary charts and figure out what planets rule each one in your chart, and where they're placed, and what the aspects between them mean, you can find so many amazing things pop up that either reveal what happened in the past, the current situation, and what's to come. Makes for hours of fun!

posted July 24, 2005 06:13 PM              

Your are right, hours of fun...

I have a similar situation, and if you are into this, I would really appreciate it if you'd take a look at my horary chart as well. I am only just learning, and also, you would be more objective.

posted July 24, 2005 09:07 PM              

I've been dying to ask for help with this horary chart of mine, but was hesitant to ask. I'm kind of new to forums.

I'm also looking into your chart, Lilygirl, to see if I come up with anything, but I must say this IS complicated. Right now I am just learning about declinations and parallells.

I am sorry about your health problems. I hope all will be well with you from now on!

All the best

posted July 24, 2005 11:01 PM              

Go to these websites:

http://astrologyweekly.com/forum/

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary.html

posted July 28, 2005 01:45 AM            

I've been having a tight few days, but I just popped back in to take a quick look-see at the Sabian symbols ( http://www.sabiansymbols.com/oracle.htm/ ) for the antiscia in your chart - you can read more on antiscia at this site: http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson6/

See if these mean anything to you:

Your Sabian symbol (for the antiscion of the AC in this chart) is as follows:
*** CAPRICORN 17 ***
# 287 A YOUNG WOMAN SURREPTITIOUSLY BATHING IN THE NUDE
You may feel the need to get rid of the restraints that have been imposed upon you by social conditioning and inhibitions. Although there may be some feelings of being `exposed', really letting go and not worrying about being 'seen' can lead to feelings of freedom.

Confrontations with one's self. Reconnecting with nature. A desire to 'reveal' oneself. Confronting Puritanism.

The Caution: Suppression of natural attitudes. Bondage to social inhibitions. Being an exhibitionist. Wanting to reveal one's self at every opportunity. Showing of with no concern for others feelings.
--------------------------------------
Here's the Sabian symbol for the antiscion of the 5th house (representing him):
*** VIRGO 2 ***
# 152 A LARGE WHITE CROSS, DOMINATING THE LANDSCAPE, STANDS ALONE ON TOP OF A HIGH HILL
Signposts and other expressions of our faith have a powerful influence. The sense that suffering is the way to salvation has special significance for many people, but what does it really mean? There can be a feeling of Isolation, possibly because of religious beliefs. Don't sacrifice your wants and needs for others. They may not appreciate you for doing it anyway.

Religious ideals dominating. The fear or the wonder of God. Following a mystic Path.

The Caution: Aloneness and/or sacrifice or the yearning for it. Dogmatism. A scapegoat.
-------------------------------------------

These may or may not make sense; sometimes i find that my Sabian symbol makes more sense to me, than that for the quesited. At times, they can reveal a whole lot about the querent/quesited or the situation at hand. Anyhow, i'll look at your chart more tomorrow. Hope your appt. goes well!

Loggerhead: Why don't you post your chart in your thread, like LILYGIRL did here, and i'll peek at it too?!

posted July 31, 2005 01:35 AM            

I got your chart link from the other thread. To answer your questions:

1) What does it mean for me to be the Sun exalted?
* It just means that you're in a strong position, "in your own element", so to speak. This is because the Sun is exalted in Leo, its dignity. A well-dignified Sun means you're "confident, truthful, direct, humane, charitable". Check out this URL for more on planetary dignities: http://mithras93.tripod.com/lessons/lesson3/lesson3.html

(2) If he's Mars and she's Venus, then that should be good for him and her, correct?.. because they are trine or is this sudden changes you see amongst the three of us indicating something unusual or different I see the Sun is at Zero (conjunct that Saturn) meaning I am just getting into Leo.
* Mars & Venus are applying toward a trine, so it is a good, easy aspect for them. Venus is in the 9th house (travel, legal matters), but she's going from Leo into her fall in Virgo (ie. ill-dignified). The Sun, however, just got strengthened by moving from Cancer into Leo, where he (you) is well-dignified.

(3) If Mars and SUN are applying toward a square which act as a trine or sextile. Then that means this cannot be all in my head right?
* Yes, Lily, i believe so - it's not 'all in my head', so you can forget that Nelly/McGraw song, LOL!

I noticed something very interesting. He's your doctor. Guess what house in his turned chart you're placed in? You (Jupiter) are in his 6th house - house of health matters! Isn't that amazing?

Shall we look at the antiscia in this chart? Your antiscion is Capricorn 22:

*** CAPRICORN 22 ***
# 292 A GENERAL ACCEPTING DEFEAT GRACEFULLY

There is a time when we realize that there is no longer any point in fighting. To win in this situation may be impossible. At this time of surrender, it is the valor of the battle that will be remembered. You may find yourself at this point and it is how gracefully you handle defeat that will be the measure of your future worth.

Truth of inner worth. Learning that every minor skirmish in life is not a defeat. Giving up and being ready and willing to start again.

The Caution: Being a bad loser or feeling that everything is always going to come out badly. Reliance on self-limitations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

His antiscion is Virgo 7:
*** VIRGO 7 ***
# 157 A HAREM

There may be a feeling of being dominated, but being part of a group where you must compete for whatever small benefits may be available. Perhaps you are not taken seriously enough. There is a need to use your charm and appealing aspects of your nature to succeed.

Rising above jealousy, arrogance and passion. Waiting to be bestowed with the gift of being 'chosen'. Women's groups. Working together and sharing women's rituals or stories.

The Caution: Believing in the right to dominate those in less powerful social circumstances OR not giving oneself a sense of importance in the situation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I hope this helped a bit. I just wanted to say, you're a strong woman for having had to deal with all these health issues, and still keeping your sunny disposition; hats off to you!!

posted July 31, 2005 01:38 AM            

I replied to you over in your thread; details over there!

posted July 31, 2005 01:47 AM            

One caveat that i could think of is, could the Sun represent anyone else? The Sun rules the 5th house in his turned chart, which, as that site says, rules "Children. Gambling. Pregnancy. Dates and dating. Casual amorous relationships. Flings. Recreational sex. Lotteries. Games & sports. Fun, in general. Creative pursuits. Poetry, fiction writing, painting, etc. Financial speculation (depends on the degree of risk involved). Risky activities. Loved pet. Contests. Affairs, if querent is married. Someone acting on behalf of Querent. Secondary education."

Does he have any kids who might be represented by the Sun? Any thoughts on this? I think we should go with your intuition on this, as you are better acquainted with the situation.

I thought i'd pull up the Sabian for Jupiter and Mars too. Here's the Sabian for Jupiter's antiscion:
*** PISCES 18 ***
# 348 IN A HUGE TENT A FAMOUS REVIVALIST CONDUCTS HIS MEETING WITH A SPECTACULAR PERFORMANCE

You may find that there is a need to organize and stage a display of the situation, bringing a feeling of community together in a common goal. Sometimes this pictures a situation of hysteria or overstating one's case, so there's needs to be some feeling of moderation here. With the power to influence or sway groups of people, there needs to be some feeling of care and moderation. Is the audience listening? Is the cause just?

Energy and inspiration. Having a lot to say. Evangelism. Whipped up emotions. Being instructional and dogmatic.

The Caution: Using spiritualism for greedy financial gain. Overblown feelings of one's abilities.
--------------

Here is the Sabian for Mars' antiscion:
*** VIRGO 4 ***
# 154 BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN PLAYING HAPPILY TOGETHER

Your situation may have a lot of seemingly different and separate elements, but that is only an illusion of social perception. Social perceptions sometimes get in the way of how we see others. These need to be put aside, it's time for brotherhood and caring. In reality it is the integration and acceptance of all people (and enjoying them) that the situation will be resolved and move forward.

Universal brotherhood. Overcoming prejudices and boundaries.

The Caution: Acting with morality that is swayed by public opinion. Not being able to adjust psychologically to situations that require creative responses. Racial prejudice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

posted July 31, 2005 11:25 AM              

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me with this matter of the heart.It looks like so much work and I appreciate the care and thought you took.

This is at best an odd and deeply complex situation. I was recently informed that he and I share South and North nodes: 22 for me, 24 for him Virgo North/Pisces South. This also renders a Sun/South Node Conjunction (He being the Sun here)

Whatsmore, apparently we have a rare double whammy "Great Attractor" with our vertexes and ascendants tightly conjunct. My Ascendant is Sag 13 and Vertex 27 Cancer. His Ascendant is Cancer 26 and Vertex Sag 12. What has made it even more frightening is that my son's vertex and ascendant are identical to the Doctor's. So a karmic tug may be responsible for much of what is occurring. Consider the statistical probability of us being linked in that way.

1) On the Sun. Like me, he is married with children. His child as Sun? Hmm, good question. I somewhat suspect that I am the Sun here. And this is simply because the relationship is humane and I am cheerful and kind to him. I am direct. The other reason I suspect it is because we would be a fifth house issue, and recently there is a shift in my core about this, where I feel less whipped up and more steady with it. But to be honest do you know that feeling when the balance of power shifts in a relationship? You just know that you garnered a little dignity and control over things. That you are not alone out there flying by the seat of your pants and the strings of your heart. It is a bit like that. When he begin asking so many personal questions, ecetera, I knew I wasn't alone in this. This did not signal that either of us would step over any lines but it did signal that it wasn't a mirage (that I was not alone in this my frail humanity!!!)

On his spouse as Venus. I am not certain what is going on there. I read Venus, in fall and ill-dignified and Sun dignified (thanks for that link there). I try to sense things where I think it is inappropriate to ask but I don't like to kid myself. The Capricorn Sabian is fascinating as last week, I felt myself sort of stopping, thinking, retreating, not for the long haul but certainly for now. Defeat? Acceptance? Perhaps acceptance that we genuinely admired each other, that we have a attraction but for now---no battling for that right to explore that.

That Harem thing I assumed refered to him. What's strange and intriguing about that is the dead on feeling I get that both in work, and in marriage he feels that he must always be the one to charm, cajole, give in for a handful of crumbs (recognition). I get that read. In addition he is exceedingly humble and loathe to take credit but hurt and miffed when he doesn't receive it. (Pisces Sun and Mercury/Cancer Ascendant/Aqua Mars)

That Black and White children playing Sabian--- equally strange but provocative. I didn't really get it at first but while we are the same age, education and somewhat similiar backgrounds we are of completely different faiths and cultures!

posted August 05, 2005 06:08 AM            

firs: ur question is rather anusual... but let's take it as a romance quaetions - a 5th matter 9although, I'm not sure... do u want a sexual affair with this guy, or what? see...fisrt things first: what do U want?

a 5th matter - he's repressented by Mars and Venus, co-rulers of the 5th.

U r represented by Jupiter , ruler of the Asc; and secondary by the Moon, which also tell how things will evolve...

U: jupiter is retrograde - meaning u don't know what u want; u're not sure; u will change ur mind.Also jup is in its own house meaning u don't reaaly want to be WITH him (or u don't really want HIM); it's all about u and ur ego, perhaps?

He - mars and venus are both in their signs - so very strong (u r weak); by house and aspects to Mercury, ruler of ur 7th and Sun, ruler of ur 9th, I'd say he's either a friend of ur husbands' or a co-worker... but he's into THAT completely... Mars is in ur 4th - that's good; BUT making square to u/jup - and separating: double bad.

there was some sort of family like intimacy between the 2 of u, but either out of respect for ur husband, or his work - he's growing apart from u...

look for the next aspects the moon makes in its current sign. that's how things will evolve. the last aspect moon makes in aries speaks of how this matter will conclude itself.