posted September 22, 2005 10:13 PM              

Look where pars fortunae and lillith and all that other crap is when you are making your selections.

Or is it just me?

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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

"You must live in the infinite blackness that exists when I close my eyes. I see you when I fall asleep, I see you when I dream."

posted September 23, 2005 04:13 AM              

Pholus? P. Substantiae?! and osc. Lillith?

Ok I can't find anything online on SUBSTANCE POINT, it is symbolized by the letter S.

Hmmm.....

Thanks for the tip Mystic!

posted September 23, 2005 05:03 AM              

In the myth Chiron und Pholus are closely related: they are considered as the only reasonable and wise Centaurs, and they are said to be philanthropic. Both are friends of Hercules´, and both inadvertently die by his poisonous arrows, while he gets entangled in a conflict with the other Centaurs. The main version of this myth is as follows: On his way to the Erymanthian mountains, where he has been sent to catch the notorious wild boar, Hercules passes by the cave of the wise Centaur Pholus and is invited for a meal. Pholus was known as the keeper of the wine of the Centaurs, a gift of the wine god Dionysos. Against Pholus´ scruples, Hercules insists on opening the jug. The smell of the godly potion immediately attracts the other centaurs and puts them into fury. They charge with torn out rocks and trees to plunder the jug. But Hercules repells them. He pursues them with his arrows poisoned by the blood of the Hydra and kills them in large quantities. Hence they take refuge with the immortal Chiron, the great master of martial and healing arts, and gather around him to find to find shelter. But Hercules is blind of pugnacity keeps on shooting. Unfortunately, one of his arrows beats through a Centaur´s arm and is stuck in Chiron´s knee. The other Centaurs flee into all directions, while Hercules, under self-accusations, hastens to Chiron and tries to help him. But the poison of the Hydra leaves an incurable wound. It agonizes the immortal Centaur so much that he longs for death. Finally, by virtue of a deal with Zeus and Prometheus, he can die after a long time of suffering. Pholus, who has not been involved in the battle but simply witnessed it, dies by an unfortunate accident, as well. He wonders whether such tiny arrows can kill so huge Centaurs immediately. He steps to a corpse and pulls the projectile out to study it. Unfortunately, it slips from his fingers, gets stuck in his foot and kills him immediately.

It is the destiny of both Centaurs - and of many other Centaurs, as well - that they are done to death by the poisonous arrows of Hercules. This sheds light on their astrological significance. All other planetary gods are immortal, the Centaurs are not. The specific theme of the Centaurs is, therefore, death, the transformation - the ending of an old life and the beginnig of a new and higher life. The Centaur himself can be understood as a sybol for the hybrid position of human beings between the animal kingdom and the godhead, or between animal impulse and reason. The death of a Centaur then means the release of this tension, the transformation of what is subconscious and impulsive into understandig and consciousness. Hercules is the hero who does the Centaurs to death, half intentionally and half unintentionally. He symbolizes the individuality that strives for consciousness.

When a person is under the influence of a Centaur planet, he or she has to go through a transformation. This is connected with an insight. In the language of mythology or of the dreams both death and cognition are the same. Different Centaur planets give rise to this process in different ways. Of chiron we know that he finds it hard to die, - i.e. to understand, or to quit an old attitude towards life and find a new one. He cannot let go and die but keeps stuck in incurable suffering. This can be seen not only from the myth but from his planetary orbit as well: the extremes of Chiron´s ellipse quite exactly touch the orbits of Saturn and Uranus. His mean solar distance is located about in the middle of these two planets. This shows us, that Chiron can neither easily remain in the old disposition (Saturn) nor be released without more ado, i.e. enter into a transforming cognition (Uranus). If there is a release, it is only after long suffering.

Pholus, on the other hand, swings between Saturn and Neptune, and his average solar distance lies near Uranus. He dies all at once, without lengthy processes, and relatively painless. Afterwards, his situation is completely different. Either he has attained to a new prospect, or he finds himself in a catastrophy. For 1993HA2, the "Pluto key", death comes more violent. He is hit by an unforeseen "death-blow" into the heart, which is accompanied by passionate pain and leaves bitterness and vengefulness behind.

Experiences with natal positions of Pholus

A person with a prominent natal Pholus is in his actions guided by impulses whose motivation he is not really aware of. Actually, he is confronted with energies or parts of his nature that are not incarnated, i.e. that hang over or about him like a cloud (Neptune, the aphelion of Pholus) and urge towards incarnation (Saturn, Pholus´ perihelion) within the material world. In other words: Pholus stands for parts of our nature from which we are still cut off and with which we try to get into contact. The parts in question may be those which cannot be soundly unfolded, or on the other hand a domain where the person intently strives for and with time even reaches great progresses. A combination of Pholus and Mercury, for example, can indicate highest precision and almost magic power of a person´s mercurial abilities, or on the contrary legastheny and dyscalculia.

Pholic impulses are blind in a sense. They press on being realized even if they do not "know", what could be their appropriate place in the actual order of life. On the contrary, they are in conflict with the established conditions. The person in question may feel impelled to actions, motions or gestures that give rise to disastrous life situations. So, Pholus finds himself in a strain between self-destruction and enlargement of his own character by additional energies or horizons of experience. The pholic person walks on the narrow path of great and seemingly easy success, with the risk of catastrophic slips. Whatever happens, afterwards the person is altered. He has broken with his past, has stripped off an old skin (Greek pholis means "squama" or "skin"), has got over a rocky edge and unexpectedly attained a wonderful tableland, or else is stumbled over it into a precipice.

Instead of blindness, Pholus sometimes gives visionary power. In the myth he is a haruspex, i.e. he reads from the entrails of offered animals. People with Pholus at the IC are often very inspired, sometimes spiritual channels or fortune-tellers or work with the pendulum. But in the myths, the seer is often blind. It is not easy to dream the future and, at the same time, actually realize the present circumstances. More details on the interpretation of Pholus can be found - for those who read German - in our book on Pholus. (s. Bibliography)

Experiences with transits of Pholus

It goes without saying that, besides the study of mythology, astronomy and the effects of Pholus in natal charts, his qualities in transits had to be investigated, too. A new planet must cause distinct experiences when transiting, for example, the natal sun or the ascendent. This is especially true if it belongs to the slow-moving ones and the transit lasts for several months or even years (in case of delay by one or several retrogradations).

Therefore we decided to place Pholus on this kind of probation, too: we collected detailed experience reports of volunteers for all important Pholus transits during their hitherto life. Thereby, we took into account conjunctions, squares and oppositions of transiting Pholus with respect to natal main axes, main planets, Chiron, Pholus himself and the lunar nodes, as well as passages through the Placidian houses. The maximal orb we used was 2°. We listed the periods of pholic influences in their varying lengths in form of a table beginning with the birth and ending at the present time and presented them to the participants. To avoid the danger of influencing them, we gave no hints on the kind of transit or the factors involved. So they groped in the dark, as it were. Only after they had returned us their written experience reports, we commented on their respective transit theme in a personal talk and searched after deeper meanings.

To our surprise, the most transits of Pholus in the lifes of our informants had been accompanied by subjectively important and impressing events and developments. The only exception seemed to be the transits of Pholus over the lunar nodes: people were seldom able to report something. But apart from that, in almost all cases, especially at conjunctions, the participants used to mention distinctly noticeable changes and developments, be it during a house passage or a planetary transit, though they did not know at all what transit was in question. Of course, we investigated whether there were other transits involved, but this turned out to be true only seldom.

While evaluating the reports we could with time sift out the following typical transit qualities of Pholus that used to show up in the lifes of the participants both in disagreeable and agreeable variations:

* Pholus intensifies the natal factor affected by him in a way that we are impelled to unusual and often thoughtless actions in the domain in question. Frequently one feels a kind of "goaded on" and under a hardly sustainable permanent strain.

* An underdeveloped facet of the affected part of our personality suddenly appears. On the one hand, this often gives us a spontaneous insight into our deficiencies in the domain concerned. On the other hand, it drives us even more towards a change.

* The participants often felt a wish of riddance. The old and hitherto sheltering way of life becomes too "limited" and is stripped off without much effort and sometimes even "accidentally" (cf. pholis, squama". A skinning effect). Some persons characterized this process as an "awakening" of new energies, capabilities and insights, often accompanied by a strong enthusiasm.

* Pholus seems to launch us again and again into unexpected frontier situations, where we feel demanded too much and eventually exceed the bounds of our possibilities. In these periods of transition from a suddenly lost security (Saturn) we find ourselves helplessly exposed to and confronted with the neu haziness (Neptune). In this situation we run great risk of calamitous misreactions (self-sabotage, accidents; cf. Pholus death in the myth). On the other hand, this "wobbly" state may give rise to a positive new beginning that leads into a richer and intenser life. In both cases there is a tendency, that the subconsciousness determines the "course".

After all we found that almost all Pholus transits mark more or less important turning-points in life. People often leave behind old things relatively fast and spontaneously, open themselves to unknown new things and therewith grow out of their old self. The way in which this happens with Pholus transits distinctly differs from those of the known planets, as sketched above. So, Pholus is indeed clearly perceptible in transits, and according to our experiences his astrological power is by all means equal to other main planets´ transits. For instance, we recommend to look at the transition of Pholus over the rising or setting points. At those times there was an important turning-point in the lifes of most of the participants of our transit research, though nothing of such kind had been indicated by transits of other main planets. Experiences of similar importance were undergone at passage times of Pholus over MC and IC. (see Note)

The full significance of Pholus can perhaps be imagined best by means of its transit qualities, whereby it is clear that we have discovered only the "top of the iceberg". Who knows, what else will be brought to light about Pholus? An other interesting matter of research would be, for example, its generations effects that are connected with its extreme speed variations and its extraordinarily variable residence times within the different signs of the zodiac. For instance, when at perihelion, Pholus passes cancer or leo within only two years. On the other hand, when at aphelion in capricorn or aquarius, it takes him 23 years to cross a sign (figure 4), i.e. more than ten times longer! Depending on the generation one belongs to, one will experience the opposition in the cycle of Pholus between the 13th and the 76th year of life (figure 5). So there is a Pholus generation that has Pholus passed through half of the house circle by the age of 13. Imagine the same thing for Uranus! What is the meaning of such extreme variations in frequency and speed of transits for the different generations?

posted September 23, 2005 08:36 AM            

I have checked and found out that astrocom’s Substance Point coincides with my and my mom's and my friend’s Parts of Misfortune (when I have time I like to hand calculate charts).

Part of Misfortune = ACS + Mars - Saturn (day birth)

Part of Misfortune = ACS + Saturn - Mars (night birth)

some info on parts http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_fortune_e.htm

parts calculator http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

parts calculator http://www.astrologicinsights.com/Calculating_Arabic_Parts.html

posted September 23, 2005 08:50 AM              

So how significant is it? If you have say Substance Point in Aries or in 9th or 10th house, or conjunct MC, how does one interpret that? Also, if i am not mistaken, Pholus is where you tend to be confused about why things the way they are? I have pholus in 8th house, pisces, do you recommend any sites or resources on the matter.

posted September 23, 2005 10:25 AM            

I am not familiar with Pholus but will try and find something interesting on it.
But before that I am going to read what you've posted above.

posted September 24, 2005 03:36 AM              

Thanks for the info again

posted September 24, 2005 05:26 AM            

"Part of Substance....... Bonatti tells us this part signifies “the maintenance of the life of men and their profit and other things”. He maintains his own life and profit."

Taken from,astrodatabank.com Jane Griscti 8/03

posted September 26, 2005 06:25 AM            

Deliverance,

Is there a formula for Part of Substance because it is rather strange that it does coincide with Part of Misfortune in my and my friends’ charts. If we mean the same part then it would be rather strange to use Mars and Saturn as significators of ‘life and profit’.

This is what I’ve found on other parts that have the same formula as part of misfortune I use:

Part of Necessity =ASC + Mars – Saturn

Place of Murder =ASC + Mars – Saturn
http://www.astrologicinsights.com/Calculating_Arabic_Parts.html

In my opinion parts that use Saturn and Mars coordinates definitely mean something negative not profitable.

The only way to clarify this is to check it in your own charts, guys.

posted September 26, 2005 06:49 AM              

Often I dream very vivid (foretelling) dreams and have had at least one channeling experience, so this makes perfect sense to me. The information is very much appreciated!

posted September 26, 2005 07:12 AM            

I. This is a position of the cosmopolitan mind. Pholus on the ascendant or in the first house marks a mobile and unregular life.

II. Roaming access to your account and temporary loss of money when Pholus is in the second house. Pholus has it's own oblique ways to make you find the things you miss in life.

III. Briefs such as this analysis, quick schedule builders, blitz interviews and a sense of overall improvisation with Pholus in third.

Pholus thelepats your favorite city and escape destination.

IV. Changes are studied and patterns of timespace arrange for insight with Pholus nadiring. This is the position of the master spy. Snooping around the kitchen in the early morning makes for a paparazzo scoop in the late evening.

V. Celibacy and meditation with Pholus in fifth. One definitively has no love for trivia. To others he might seem a troublemaker.The lover as companion in adventure.

VI. Pholus in sixth. Rituals such as of left tantra. Success as seaman. Swiss banks protect your capital. A discrete standard even after heavy taxing. Generally a symptom of good health.

VII. Unmarried does not mean haremless. When Pholus is in the 7th house, the soul mate is from another place. It might even be off the planet or from dreamworld.

VII. This is a very loving position. Tears will clean the way to sincerity. Davison relationship synastry chart reports will determine the time of love.

IX. Dreaming together and contacts with your guru in the astral kingdom. Pholus is about traveling and is accordingly obviousely strong in 12th 3rd and 9th.

X. Artists could profit from this position. The would be guru has yet to discard his uman frame. Media like TV. Not a steady job at ll, movimentated career, paid not to work, poltron, flatterer, double agent.

XI. Moving inside his own clan he keeps the core sincere. Pholus is a happy family man when the big clan prospers and perhaps lively transactions happen from within it's circle. An advice increase severity and nevertheless cherish the woman as the centre of the clan. This is NASDAQ's position.

XII. Samadhi is the end of married life. Yin and Yang unmarry here. Tao knows neither Yin nor Yang. One quits entangling himself with the world of duty, parents long gone, he quits mindane business and has false mind ("his" ego) as the only devil to face to the end. TrueMind takes over, dissolving the
salt doll of "ego" or "foreign instal", daily mind. Events funneled, as if guided by a mysterious hidden god. TrueMind in the movie director's seat.

posted September 26, 2005 07:49 AM            

quote:

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Perhaps a sense of listlessness in life encourages one to eat too much or too little. Maybe even taking on alcohol or other substance as a substitute for contentment becomes the way one copes. The Centaur Pholus appears to remind us of what it is that actually lay beneath these physical urges to compensate or over-compensate in life.

Pholus appears at just the right time to remind people of the needs of spirit. While he signifies everything about food and drink, he also stresses the idea that all things intending to nurture our beings remain powerful ceremonies. Pholus indicates diet patterns, especially methods of cooking and even the type of diet including carnivorous or vegetarian ways. His attitude toward drink, most especially alcohol, insists that it be offered ceremoniously. The custom of toasting with wine (or whatever is the alcohol of choice) comes from Pholus. Blessing food symbolizes a Pholus thought. He represents use or abuse of all physical substances, alcohol being the most significant of his concerns.

Ultimately Pholus reminds us of the need to fill our daily lives with those things that are good – and only good – for us. He establishes awareness of necessary limits and requirements. He goes even further in that he offers the reminder (and often a stern one) that your daily routine must include your spiritual drill: saying grace, toasting, a daily meditation, smudging, ceremonial cleansing or whatever comes under his wise and watchful eye. Should things feel out of sorts, offer simpler, reverent acts every day. Watch the restlessness subside and the sense of well being begin.

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http://astrologysoftwareshop.com/charting/kp/rpt/Rptcentaur.htm

posted September 26, 2005 11:14 AM              

And how about if my pholus is in there 8th house?

But I am a bit confused. I am not sure if his pholus is in my 7th or 8th house.

And I am not sure if my pholus is in his 8th house or 9th house.

Can someone tell me? I am the red planets and he is the blue.

posted September 26, 2005 02:16 PM              

LOL

quote:

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X. Artists could profit from this position. The would be guru has yet to discard his uman frame. Media like TV. Not a steady job at ll, movimentated career, paid not to work, poltron, flatterer, double agent.

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Ok that makes me feel very bad about myself LOL.

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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

posted September 26, 2005 02:21 PM            

Impulses governed by the aspected planets may therefore be blind, hasty and disastrous in outcome. But with regard to more intangible realms, Pholus confers a visionary and mediumistic capability.

posted September 26, 2005 02:29 PM              

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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

posted May 17, 2011 01:59 AM            

did a tarot thingamajig to describe- it's so perfect