posted January 26, 2006 10:00 AM              

i looked around for information on h56 and came up with very little, i did find this one thing about persian dualism:
http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-persian-dualism.html

and here is the excerpt from that page, that article is long and a little hard to read:

2. The symbol of Ashta Vareshta = Selena or the White Moon of the modern dualised astrologers. Physical representation: gravitational centre of the Earth-Moon system. Point rotation cycle 7 years. (Possibly, this Indo-Persian astrological symbolism was the origin of the idea that 7 is a godly number and 9 is the "Satanic" number or traditional number of Esoteric Mysteries. Also, seven is associated later on with God; while 9, the three-fold Muse is associated with Goddess.)

When linked, both symbols form the horizontal line that signifies the limit of our perception. At the same time, the symbols gate the beam of energy (vertical arrow pointed down) from the Great Unknown that empowers the Yatukih magician and leads to earthly success and gratification. Only the one who can combine and explore the significance and cycles of both Az and Ashta Vareshta, thus crossing the barrier of duality while still employing natural polarities, is able to open the Gates of The Dog Star and get the Ur Thangh power. Interesting, that those “modern dualised astrologers” who are keen on the interpretation of fixed stars are still unable to decide if the “influence” of Sirius is good or bad, malevolent or beneficial.

by the way, for everyone, here is a great asteroids site, and there is a special article on a trio of asteroids, one of them being 1181, lilith:
http://www.geocities.com/mahtezcatpoc/asteroid.html

and to lauren, the dark moon you mean is h58, right? i don't know much about dark moon lilith...mine is unaspected at 1 aqua in the 4th, so i dont think it's particularly strong. as far as the conjunctions go, i'd keep the orbs pretty tight, no more than 3°. i do really like sue simmon's site for information about all the liliths, here is a passage from her site about DML (h58 on astro.com) --

A fascinating article written by Sepharial about the time Waltemath discovered DML in 1898, called "The New Satellite Lilith", is at http://members.tripod.com/~LdyMyste/lilith.html The first few paragraphs are on general astrology but after that the rest of the
article is on Dark Moon Lilith. He describes talking to Dr. Waltemath and gives several examples of men with DML in the 6th house dying in terrible accidents in the workplace. He also gives directions on how to calculate DML in your chart by hand, which is very interesting in giving us a chance to see his thinking at work. He gives examples of
dates when DML is conjunct the Sun so you can compare that with other ephemerides you may have.

Eric Urberseder and Terry MacKinnell both report getting good results using Sepharial's calculations. Eric has an interesting article on Dark Moon Lilith's role in illness at: http://home.epix.net/~tzarathu/Dark%20Moon%20Lilith.html After I read this I started looking for DML in illness charts and found that it is always a player, so now I watch for it in electional charts for surgeries & biopsies, death from illness, etc.

Terry MacKinnell said he started off using Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson's interpretations but says "Ivy's interpretations told only half the story. Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson focussed upon the negative or denial mode of Lilith. The only positive side was a short reference to the fact that a strong Lilith in a chart made a person more interesting." Terry related Lilith to the Hindu concept of a 'lila' and says he realised that "the denial aspect of Lilith only applies if the person
grabs at whatever Lilith signifies in the chart. If the person is detached, the object of 'desire' is given freely as a gift." Years
later he says he was very pleased to find that Delphine Jay's interpretations matched his concept developed from the Hindu lila.
He also says Sepharial's DML is "the mainstay of predictions in progressions. In fact I can usually tell my client what their question is merely from the progressed DML in their chart based on its progressed sign, dwaasamsa and aspects to other progressed or natal planets."

The following are books on Dark Moon Lilith:

1. Delphine Jay, Interpreting Lilith, $16, newly revised, AFA. This gives explanation and cookbook definitions for Dark Moon Lilith
placements. I have found her interpretations to be very good. 181 pages.
2. Delphine Jay, The Lilith Ephemeris 1900-2000 AD.
The calculations are from Sepharial's calculations.
3. Ivy M. Goldstein-Jacobson, Dark Moon Lilith in Astrology, $17.50.
If an ephemeris is included it is based on Sepharial.
4. Mae R. Wilson-Ludlum, Lilith Insight: New Light on the Dark Moon,
$18, AFA. If she has an ephemeris in this, it is also from Sepharial.

i think peri also posted some interesting comparisons between the 3 liliths earlier in this thread...way earlier i think, maybe on page 1.

hope that helps!

-c

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3Liliths/

posted January 26, 2006 10:03 AM            

White Moon is your guardian angel or support from your higher self in difficult/dangerous situations. (the house placement will specify in what area);

The sign of White Moon will determine the best (from the karmic point of view) qualities you possess.

I must also add that although BML almost aways works in people's charts, White Moon often does not.
It very much depends on the spiritual development/path of the native.

posted January 26, 2006 03:28 PM              

Not because I'm challenging what you wrote, but because I always get suspicious when something having to do with "the higher self and karma" is given such a wave.

So! In your e.g. you said yourself what happened. I've got to try this...

posted January 26, 2006 04:11 PM              

i checked my white moon (h56) and she's at 21 libra in the 1st house. that's interesting...

im digging around about it.

posted January 26, 2006 04:49 PM              

My White Moon is in Gemini 15.0 Degrees, smack dab in the middle of my 1st House.

What connections can I make regarding the higher self and karma. Hmmmmm ... I don't know.... so far I see ...

* The majority of my 1st House is in Gemini

* Vesta in Gemini 4 Degrees

* Square my Venus

* Biquintile Neptune

* Trine MC

Anyone see anything? Maybe there are similarities in your Chart.

posted January 26, 2006 04:50 PM              

It's in YOUR 1st House too. Is it smack dab in the middle like it is in mine?

posted January 26, 2006 05:20 PM              

* My Mercury in Scorpio. Scorpio is Ruled by Pluto.

* Mercury Conjunct Mars
* Mercury Square Jupiter
* Mercury Conjunct Neptune
* Mercury Sexile Pluto
* Mercury Trine Chiron
* Mercury Square MC

Well. I do see something here, which could possibly mean something. I have a ton of Mercury Aspects, and I'm a writer.

If I then look at the House which Rules Mercury, it's the 3rd House.

My Moon is in the 3rd House.

I can even keep going just with examples on the House... such as Mercury being Ruled by the 3rd House - Moon in the 3rd House.

See any patterns?

posted January 26, 2006 07:12 PM              

nope, it's (white moon) actually about 9° from my Asc.

and that's a fab idea! i read somewhere something really awesome once, that nodal growth is often stimulated through the north nodal ruler...this would seem to apply to a body such as this, the ruler of the white moon might be representative of some kind of guardian forces, isses of a spiritual nature, the best qualities you possess (karmically speaking)...and so on.

basically, since she's the antipode of BML, where BML makes things extra difficult, she makes things easy and harmonious!

so it's funny, your chart ruler/white moon ruler is mercury and my chart ruler/white moon ruler is venus..

i dont have any significant contacts to white moon, but..

• my venus is in 18 aqua in 5th house

• venus square saturn in 8th 0°

• venus conjunct NN 4°

so...well, um, im guessing that these aspects stimulate white moon energy, with my venus/NN in 5th that makes sense, i'm an artist/graphic designer. i knew from early on that art was my thing, and you know what? it's always felt kind of like my "special" thing, the thing that was all mine and that gave me something nobody else had. i dont know, that sounds corny.

anyways, interesting!

c

posted January 26, 2006 08:14 PM              

Today's contemporary astrologists would have their own set of challenges if it were to become just as "interesting" as the myth of the lilith. Lilith is more primetime than a stupid old White Moon which will just remind some of the mistakes they made which furthered them from reaching their "calling", i.e., becoming a good wife, unexpected pregnancies, having to care for someone ill.

Nah... much better to just blame it on *dark* lilith.

posted January 27, 2006 12:45 PM              

i think you've got something there!

it's as if white moon, and/or her ruler, it's as if they describe something special you either have or do, something related to calling perhaps for us since white moon is in 1st house and is disposited by our chart rulers. white moon or ruling planet of white moon would maybe give something special where it's at, special gifts or something...

i started a thread on this one astro board i like that i joined not too long ago, hopefully somebody will respond with some info..i like this board very much, the people there are very intelligent and they seem to know a lot of stuff i don't:
http://www.mauricefernandez.com/forum%5Feng/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5328

im gonna keep my eye out for any more info!

posted January 27, 2006 02:36 PM              

Ten-four on keeping yo eyes open. I dare anyone to keep up with the insights here. I'd like to visit that site. Hope it continues to be easy on the eyes, cuz this site is easy on the eyes.

The way you say "special gifts" just makes an image of the Three Wise Men pop in my head. Could White Moon have ever been associated with Catholisism? Maybe some "stupid" astrologists starting saying something to that effect, and someone wanted to insure separation of church and fate.