posted August 03, 2007 03:05 AM            

I'm still tripping out on the kite and t-square. Seems really appropriate.

The Grand Water Trine is a creative energy, but the trine can be a lazy energy. The energy comes easily, so it doesn't prompt you to action. http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/grandtrine_kite.shtml

The Kite adds motivation, and the grand trine point that becomes the focal is the one with the opposition. For me that would be Mars in Pisces. Amongst other things I think of Pisces as creative. Mars there suggests "creative action" to me, and it should be transformative (Pluto), intelligent (Mercury) art (Venus). Oh, and now I see Pluto's in it's home sign as is Mercury.

The planet at the apex of my t-square is Jupiter in Taurus. I always equate Taurus with music, because it's such an intrinsic part of a Taurus' life. That's my initiative planet.

posted August 03, 2007 04:16 AM              

Anyway... even though I have an unaspected Venus in my natal chart, it seems to be making a lot of noviles to Moon, Mars, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, NN, Vertex. No wonder I want a deep spiritual union...

posted August 03, 2007 09:42 AM              

But I agree with Izo, we should look for the conjunctions / Oppositions in the 9th harmonic chart; only those point to noviles in the birthchart.

posted August 03, 2007 01:09 PM              

Jane,
thanks!im having really great time at the beach, im arealdy gaining a little chokolate colour hihihi

DD and Izo,
well i loved doin this cause i found very interesting aspects bewtween me and Jonnhy concernign the 9th Harmonic Charts Comparison - got really closed orbs with important planets/Cusps ( 0º/1º)

- Sun/ISIS;
Sun-venus;
venus-12th;
mars/5th;vertex/osiris/Valentine;Juno/MC;
aMOR/Sun;Eros/Jup;Valentine/12th;Venus/MC;
AC-sun;Isis-MC;eROS/NN;Eros-Eros;Valentine/Juno;Vlantine/5thCusp;IC- iSIS;ISIS/12THcUSP...

mERC-mOON DW
PF-Neotune DW
vENUS-MC DW
Venus-Sun DW
NN-12thCusp DW
VERTEX-OSIRIS DW
VERTEX- MC

but specifically what do the 9th Harmonic can tell about the aspects..that i wish i would know :P

posted August 04, 2007 03:59 AM              

I know that this article stated you can look at "hits" between birth chart and 9th harmonic chart. And so I did. *sighs*

But I really think it is mixing up two systems after all.

1. Western astrology:
Here we can use the 9th harmonic chart to show us all aspects from the novile series,w hich will appear as conjunctions (and oppositions are always important). And the 9th series, the novile series, has that certain flavour:
it relates to completions, karma, joy, marriage, spiritual growth and all the things Jane mentioned. Therefore it is seen as a soulmate-aspect.
But if you compare 9th harmonic to birth chart, the conjunctions you find don`t appear as noviles in your birthchart.

I don`t know if that means this comparision bewteen natal and 9th harmonic is irrelevant, but it surely shows something different, then aspects of the 9th harmonic.

2. Vedic / Indian astrology
The Vedic think of the 9th harmonic chart (Navamsha) as very important. In fact they say the birthchart contains your body, the physical manifestations,w hereas in the 9th chart you find the soul.
They use it as a second birthchart, and even more so, as a marriage chart.
But they don`t compare the 9th with the birtchart, as far as I can see.

Also, as you may know the Vedic use the Sidereal zodiac and only equal houses, giving the houserulers a predominance. They also use the old houserulers (Mars is ruler of SCorpio, Saturn rules Aquarius, Jupiter rules Pisces), and have a very strict systems of rules, like Mars and Saturn as malefics (almost like in older Western astrology). They have an approach that seems very "fated", not giving free will enough room, as I sometimes think.
But then again what is free will?
Who decides, what I want? Where I direct my will? (well,t his could get philosophical here ).
Also, important to note, they see planets in same or opposite signs always in aspect, no matter what orb.
For example: Venus on 1° Capricorn and Moon on 28° Capricorn would still be considered a conjunction; however even in that system close aspects are considered the stronger ones.

But even though they use the sidereal zodiac, I think we can also apply the tropical zodiac, it`s not wrong after all, it worked fine for us, didn´`t it?

Here`s an article I found with a chart comparision between Johnny Depp and Vanessa Paradis.
http://modernvedicastrology.com/Relationships

DD

posted August 04, 2007 04:46 AM              

My Vedic positions of the birthchart, the pysical manifestations, very noticeable, are

ASC: 13° Scorpio,
Mars (lord of 1): 11° Scorpio

DSC: 13° Taurus
Venus (lord of 7): 12° Sagittarius

Sun: 2° Sagittarius
Moon: 23° Capricorn

NN: 16° Scorpio
Saturn: 23° Gemini
Jupiter: 17° Aquarius
Mercury: 01° Sagittarius

Uranus: 07° Libra
Neptune: 16° Scorpio
PLuto: 15° Virgo
Karma: 22° Taurus

HIS Vedic placements:

ASC: 5° Aries
Mars, (lord of 1), 16° Virgo

DSC: 5° Libra
Venus, lord of 7, 17° Sagittarius

Sun: 6° Sagittarius
Moon: 5° Aries

NN: 20° Aries
Saturn: 00° Pisces
Jupiter: 9° Cancer
Mercury: 22° Scorpio

Uranus: 1° Virgo
Neptune: 29° Libra
Pluto: 27° Leo
Karma: 09° CAncer

the 9th harmonic, Navamsha, soul-chart, marriage chart (it does have many names)

My placements:

ASC: 1° Scorpio
Mars, lord of 1, 14° Libra

DSC: 1° TAurus
Venus, lord of 7, 23° Cancer

Sun: 21° ARies
Moon: 02° Leo

Mercury: 13° Aries
Jupiter: 09° Pisces
SAturn: 01° Taurus
NN: 22° Scorpio

Uranus: 10° Sagittarius
Neptune: 27° Scorpio
Pluto: 20° Taurus
Karma: 22° Cancer

HIS PLACEMENTS:

ASC: 20° Taurus
Venus, lord of 1, 6° Virgo

DSC: 20° Scorpio
Mars, lord of 7, 25° Taurus

Sun: 01° Gemini
Moon: 16° Taurus

Mercury: 19° Capricorn
Jupiter: 25° Virgo
Saturn: 01° Cancer
NN: 03° Libra

Uranus: 09° Capricorn
Neptune: 28° Gemini
Pluto: 05° Sagittarius
Karma: 29° Virgo

There are many things that catch my attention; but one in particular anad that is found in my own "marriage chart".

The great malefic, Saturn, is exactly conjunct the DSC.
Probably that would mean great difficulties in relationship, delays, restrictions, a harsh Vedic astrologer would probably say I`m doomed never to marry. Saturn in this position will destroy all chances to a happy marriage. This Saturn is further square Moon - great emotional distress.
Also, Pluto in the house of marriage, points to heavy turbulences, Pluto is the dark lord after all! But of course, with a slightly more positive attitude could say a marriage would be based on sincerity (SAturn), would be long lasting (SAturn), life transforming (Pluto) and passionate (Pluto).
But still, it`s a very difficult position in a marriage chart, I guess.
Pluto in the 7th house is also conjunct the SN - another sign of fatedness, but not the easy and pleasant kind.
So far, it seems no marriage for me!

But then you can see, the sign of my 7th house is Taurus; so the DSC is ruled by it`s natural ruler, Venus. That is something very positive.
This Venus is in Cancer, sign of strong, but fluctuating emotions.

Venus itself is in cancer closely conjunct Karma. So, love, relationship, marriage seem to have a very karmic connotation in my life.
Venus is also closely trine the NN and sextile Pluto; even more destiny concerning relationships: so far it seems as relationships and love are written deeply into my life`s concept, into my life-path. It will be completely ruled by love, but also tinted with feelings of pain, loss, loneliness. Seems I have got a lot to learn in this regard.
The fact that Venus not only rules the 7th hosue but also the SN seems to tell me, that all those difficulties and burden concering relationships have their source in a past life.
Neptune conjunct NN seems to indicate a lot of confusion, but also the possibility to develop spiritual awareness.
Not the easiest path I chose.

posted August 04, 2007 05:23 AM              

DSC is in Scorpio, which in itself is a difficult position, and its ruler Mars is in a Venus-sign; there seems to be some confusion about traditional gender roles, some reversion. but the ruler of the 7th is in a Venus sign - that is a good sign.
The 7th house ruler is also exactly trine with the great benefic, Jupiter. Luck in marriage. It also trines Karma, so it seems, marriage and relationships seem to have karmic reasons here,t oo.
But Pluto is also in the 7th house, pointing to difficult situations, fatedness and painful transformations concerning relationships.

Pluto itself is square Venus - ouch, there seems to be a lot of turmoil in his feelings.
Oh my: there seems to be a T-square of Pluto (5° Sagittarius) opposite Sun (1° GEmini) square Venus (6° Virgo).
It overlays the 7th (Pluto), 1st (Sun) and 4th (Venus) house, and includes the ruler of Descendant (Pluto as new ruler), 4th house (Sun) and ASC (Venus) - that is one strong connection between the cardinal houses! SEems some of his relationship-problems have to do with his original family and home.
But Pluto is also sextile NN and Sun is trine NN. Now the NN falls into the Venus-sign LIbra and the 5th house. His lifepath seems to involve art, creativity and different shades of love (Libra nd 5th house).

NOw to look for interconections between our horoscopes; I`ll be only looking at the soul-chart. (I would have to do it with the birthchart, too).

First of all are there any connections between ASC and DSC or ruler of 1 and ruler of 7? Those are the most important ones, which tends to be like glue, a very magnetic pulling force.

First of all interesting to note:
OUr ASC-DSC are reversed! EVen though it`s not a close conjunction, the Vedic would still see it as a conjunct of ASC and DSC.

Then my DSC is trine his ASC-ruler.
The lord of my 7th house is trine his DSC, sextile his 7th house lord.

His DSC is conjunct my NN - my lifepath seems to be closely tied to his relationships.
His DSC is also trine my Karma (see the one above).

His 7th house lord is sign conjunct my DSC, conjunct my SN
- interesting, his 7th house closely links to my NN and my SN, maybe a past life relationship that reaches into our present life?
HIs 7th house lord is conjunct my Pluto (since we have both Pluto in the 7th house, I consider that as very significant);
it also means that his 7th house lord is conjunct my new 1st house lord - some more pulling force.

Now for the ascendants:
my ASC trines his 1st house lord, Venus.
My 1st house lord, Mars in Libra, is sign-conjunct his NN.
His ASC is sextile my DSC-ruler, Venus,
and exactly conjunct my Pluto, my new ASC-ruler.
The lord of his 1st house, Venus in Virgo, is trine my DSC.

And I only looked at the connections between ASC and DSC here!

Hmm, I`m curious now. What do you find in your vedic synastry with your significant others?

EDIT:
Mmh, after rereading the article it seems that the main aspects are conjunction and opposition.

posted August 06, 2007 01:27 AM            

Izo - Hey you! I just emailed you.
I haven't compared any 9H charts to natals yet, but I guess the reasoning behind doing that could be similar to comparing Draconics to Natal charts. Vedic astrologers desribe the 9H as our Soul Chart, so perhaps comparing it with natals shows how that person affects us on a soul level? That's the only reason that comes to my mind for making that comparison. But I haven't finished comparing 9H charts, so I'll wait until I'm bored with that before I bring the natals into the equation.
lol, I actually checked my 9H Davison! I only looked at it briefly but I didn't experience any sense of "Eureka! This is so us!" that I've experienced with other charts, so I think I'm gonna stick with using the 9H for only individuals, not relationships (or events).

sameesadiq - Since I haven't found a source that describes novile aspects, I've been reading interpretations for trines, since the novile and trine are related. 0º trines are also conj/oppositions between 9H charts. So my guess is that a novile plays out similarly to a (1º+) trine, but brings an even greater feeling of deep joy and peace.

posted August 06, 2007 02:07 AM            

No, I've always defied logic with my musical talent. When people hear me play, they're always surprised I'm not doing much with it.

I've always had an issue with making complete songs. I love making music. That's my forte. And I can write lyrics alright. Bringing the two together has always posed a challenge for me. Lately, my mind has become more involved in trying to work out a solution to my songwriting dilemma. I think my solution may be to NOT expect it to come organically. With my Capricorn Sun and Virgo Moon, I may need to manage (Capricorn) my creative production as well as do outlines and create structure (Virgo) for what I'm trying to accomplish.

I haven't read about angles being points in a kite, but were you to use the angle to complete a kite maybe it would work to your advantage. If you just want to believe it completes your kite, and you think it would help you in some way, then it probably wouldn't hurt.

posted August 06, 2007 04:55 AM              

quote:

---

I actually checked my 9H Davison! I only looked at it briefly but I didn't experience any sense of "Eureka! This is so us!" that I've experienced with other charts, so I think I'm gonna stick with using the 9H for only individuals, not relationships (or events).

---

posted August 06, 2007 07:20 AM              

Maybe you have to stick to the Indian / Vedic system to get good results, which means using the Sidereal zodiac, whole sign houses, whole sign aspects (only conjunction and opposition and some special aspects for Mars, Jupiter and Saturn). I think you can`t force the Indian system on our western, that would mean to much mixing up.

Having said that, I do think the Sidereal zodiac could be effective; but for Western astrology, maybe mainly in connection to the tropic one.
I`m not sure about that, but I am pretty amazed that the degrees from 15° - 20° Scorpio appear so often in transits and my synastries. And I actually don`t find a logical reason for this.
I don`t have any big players, Sun-Pluto, there; I don`t even have draconic planets there.
The degrees of 10° - 15° Scorpio would be solstice conjunct my Moon; also my own prenatal Sun-Venus-conjunction falls onto 14° Scorpio. So that would explain the earlier degrees.
But what about, let`s say, 17° - 21°; why do those degrees appear this often?
As I said I don`t ahve anything BIG there, I do have Siva on 15° Scorpio and I have Anteros on 19,5° Scorpio, which may be of some significance. But on the other hand those are only asteroids. Do they really have such a meaning, such a magnetic pulling force, pulling people into my life, who trigger those degrees? Maybe they have their say. Ah I forgot, Valentine is on 27° Scorpio, but certainly too far away.

But interesting enough, if I apply the Sidereal zodiac, I have Mars on 11,5°, Neptune on 16,5°, NN on 16,5° and ASC on 13,5° Scorpio.
And I have Karma on 22,5° Taurus.

I start thinking these sidereal placements have some value.

DD

posted August 06, 2007 04:11 PM            

You're not a very good stalker if you don't know my Venus is in Sag.

In my natal, my art is specified by Venus conjunct Neptune (in Sag) in the 7th. Neptune sextiles to my Pluto in Libra in the 5th, which is conjunct my 29 degree Virgo Moon (also in the 5th). I think that connection between the 5th and 7th houses gives me my artistic sense.

posted August 06, 2007 09:17 PM              

Here are our 9th harmonic soul charts compared:

My ASC ruler conj his ASC
My DSC conj his Sun
My DSC ruler conj his Moon
My DSC ruler opp his Uranus, Mars, Pluto
His ASC conj my Sun
His ASC ruler - no aspects
His DSC conj my Merc, Saturn
His DSC ruler opp my Pluto [DW]

Our NN and SN are conj
Our Moons are conj

His Sun conj my Mars
His Moon conj my Uranus
His Venus conj my Pluto
His Mars opp my Moon, Uranus
His Mars conj my Jupiter
My Moon opp his Pluto, Uranus
My Venus conj his Saturn

posted August 10, 2007 03:47 AM            

darkdreamer - that's interesting how sidereal degrees are important in your tropical transits and synastries. Do you have draco planets placed there? Helio planets?
It wasn't until your post that I even realized that astro.com gave us the option for using the sidereal zodia for our 9H. I'm gonna have to study it more before I can decide if the "tropical" or sidereal 9H is more me. But something I found interesting was how many planets/asteroids/angles my sidereal 9H has at the same degree as my bf's tropical natal, and the same with his sidereal 9H and my tropical natal. The conjunctions instantly jumped out, but it's probably meaningless since it's mixing not only sidereral and tropical, but 9H and natal.

AcousticGod - My stalking skills lie in surveillance. I seee yooou.
We have a reversed Sun/Venus combo. I'm a Sag Sun with a Cap Venus.
Good and concise astrological analysis of your chart's creativity indicators. I don't have any planets in my 5th house, but it's in Pisces and its ruler is conjunct my Sun in the 2nd house. Maybe I will be able to make a living off of my creative hobby afterall.

posted August 10, 2007 12:33 PM              

I don´t know if I really "identify" with my sidereal planets. I recognize myself very much in my Moon in Aquarius, my venus in Capricorn and my Sun and ASC in Sagittarius.
But I cannot deny that there is something Plutonic rumbling deep inside of me. I always thought it was just my Pluto on the MC square my Venus, triggering that feeling. (or my mother`s influence, who is a SUPER-scorpio)
But interestingly my Mars, ASC and NOde fall into Scorpio in the sidereal.

But identification or not, I realized that there are quite some interconnections between the natal and the sidereal placements of people, who have a close connection. Mostly conjunctions and oppositions.

I don`t have Draco-planets at that position in Scorpio, but interestingly my Helio Mars falls onto 22° Scorpio. lol
Exactly the triggered degree. So it could be also due to my Helio-Mars. Or it is just because my Venus-Pluto-midpoint falls there, too. I don`t know.

oh and btw we have the same Sun-Venus-combo as it seems. Sag Sun with Cap Venus.

DD

posted August 24, 2007 04:54 AM            

quote:

---

But I cannot deny that there is something Plutonic rumbling deep inside of me

---