posted August 27, 2007 03:08 PM            

The person who I know with this placement, however, is a complete rationalist and an athiest. He scoffs at the idea of something 'beyond' and although he is not narrow minded per se, he is quite blocked (in my opinion) when it comes to allowing for possibilities other than those which can be rationally explained.

Having said all this, I have always felt that he wants desperately to find proof for the things he terms 'mystical'. From the moment I met him, I sensed such a spiritual energy from him and so I am wondering if my intuition is completely skewed.

I have tried to figure out what it is about his chart that might explain this side of him. It's funny to me that he can have soooo many tight aspects to Neptune and yet be so shut off from some of the things I truly feel he knows deep down. But again, I may simply be deluding myself.

Could anyone have a look at his chart? I'm not sure how to post it here so for now I'll just leave his birth info:

November 1, 1972, Kitchener, Canada, 2:38PM

Muchly appreciated

* If anyone can explain how to post a chart I'll put it up *

posted August 27, 2007 03:20 PM              

Someone with neptune here could change their mind about their religious beliefs. Was he religious before and now refutes it? Or maybe he will change his mind later. Astrologically, I wouldn't think a Jupiter transit would do it, more of a Pluto transit. Maybe a Uranus transit... Maybe when Pluto crosses it he will change his mind.

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and yet be so shut off from some of the things I truly feel he knows deep down

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posted August 27, 2007 03:46 PM            

Why do I sense a spirituality about him? I don't know. I just did from our first encounter. It's something intangible... almost a zen way he has about him. I wish I could give you a more specific reason, but that's all I got.

posted August 27, 2007 04:05 PM              

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Scorpio
The influence of Scorpio in the ninth house shows a strong interest in abstract ideas and studying the many mysteries of life. There is great depth in your need to know and understand the purpose of living. It is probable that your studies and philosophy will be outside what is considered orthodox; it is likely that occult laws will hold a special interest for you. You are critical of formal academic disciplines, preferring to attune yourself to these questions through direct experience instead of through normal intellectual processes. There is a strong, almost compulsive urge to travel around the world. Although it is a bit out of style these days, traveling by sea should have a special appeal for you.

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Aquarius on the 12th house cusp:

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Aquarius
The influence of Aquarius in the twelfth house produces a significant interest in the matters of the subconscious mind and the hidden laws of the universe. Your association and interest in these matters may cause others to view you as a dreamer, when you are remarkably systematic and objective in your thinking. High humanitarian ideals put you ahead of your time in the inner realms of awareness. The responsibility of Aquarius is service to others and if you fail in this, you tend to feel hemmed in, restrained, and of little worth.

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Hmmm... with Placidus, it is Cappy on the 12H cusp...

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Capricorn
Capricorn influences the twelfth house showing that the subconscious may be home for restrictions and conservative attitudes that aren't nearly so apparent in your conscious personality. You have subconscious feelings of limitation and inadequacy deeply ingrained in the psyche. This is because the restrictive Saturn rules this sector of your chart. Depending on the aspects of the ruling Saturn, this placement can serve to provide what is a very deep-seated sense of responsibility, or it may produce a realistic elusion that you are constantly swimming upstream.

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posted August 27, 2007 04:09 PM            

I am not religious, but I am spiritual and faithful. The closest I come to religion would be to say that I am "agnostic" - I believe in higher beings, I just don't put a name on that being.

posted August 27, 2007 04:50 PM            

I'm not religious either, but rather deeply spiritual. I certainly don't place my beliefs on anyone else, but my love of astrology and my belief in things intangible made him uncomfortable. At least that's the official decree. (I personally think it's a NN issue between us, but whatever.)

In any case, because of this divide between us, at least from his perspective, I want to know if my intuition about him in regards to his potentially 'blocked' spiritual side could be explained or more deeply understood thorugh astrology.

<<<when you are remarkably systematic and objective in your thinking.>>>

This is very true about him. His thinking astounds me because it is so logical and precise. He can explain things in such a way that it makes me have to think differently in order to fully understand what he's saying. I am far more feeling when it comes to understanding concepts. I feel them and then they must be filtered upwards so I can consciously explain them (thank heavens for my Mercury in Gemini )

And he is absolutely in love with the subconscious, but in a totally scientific way.

posted August 27, 2007 05:25 PM            

As for being like a Sagg, yeah, maybe a little. I tended to feel his Scorpionic-ness and Virgoan nature the most...as well as his many Libran qualities. The Sagg energy I mostly noticed in his communication style. But I tend to feel people's Moons rather strongly (being ruled by it).

<<<he focused more on proving your beliefs are wrong (like for the sake of arguing?)>>>

<<<maybe he hides his beliefs>>>

If he's hiding them, then it's definitely from himself, not just from me. And yes, I think there was a part of him that wanted to prove me wrong so that then we could have similar core beliefs and he could feel better about being with me. Instead of just accepting me for who I am and loving me because of it, he loved me in spite of it.

posted August 27, 2007 09:34 PM            

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Having said all this, I have always felt that he wants desperately to find proof for the things he terms 'mystical'. From the moment I met him, I sensed such a spiritual energy from him and so I am wondering if my intuition is completely skewed.

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I don't think your intuition is skewed, he has a pisces ASC so of course he'll give off the appearance of having spiritual energy. I guess its really good at masking the Scorpio sun/virgo moon combo. But even so, with the Neptune in the 9th I kind of agree with the common sentiment that he may be confused about his beliefs.

posted August 28, 2007 02:54 AM            

How has having Saturn in the 12th affected you?

posted August 28, 2007 03:58 AM            

This is probably going to sound weird, but I think his strong Neptune (being his chart ruler) may be part of what's making him so closed off to spirituality. But I'm completely projecting here, b/c it's something I've gone through myself. I'll try to explain. I have Neptune conjunct my Sun & trine my Moon. I've always been drawn to spirituality...it just seems natural to me that there's more to existence than just the material. But I'm aware that it's an intuitive feeling I have that leads me to think this way. Meanwhile, I have a strong Mercury. It's in my first house, and my tightest aspect is a sextile between Mercury & Saturn. I also have Mercury forming an exact parallel with my IC (only a second or two off). This makes me very logical. My brain needs a well reasoned argument to accept something as true. (Well, that's not entirely true. But I am always aware if I'm basing my belief on intuition & not logic.) Because my Neptune beliefs didn't come through a logical framework but through an organic intuition, I was skeptical of them. I was even harder on those beliefs than on others b/c I knew that I wanted them to be true: since my intuition & feelings were pushing so hard for those ideas to be true, my Mercury stepped up & was extra skeptical and demanding of proof. So perhaps The Scorpio intuitively senses that existence includes a spiritual component, but his Mercury conjunction restricts him, making him unable to embrace those beliefs until they can pass a logical test. It's a battle between his Neptune in the 9th & his Mercury in the 9th & they're well-matched: Neptune rules his chart & Mercury rules his Moon.

posted August 28, 2007 06:24 AM            

Jane (sweet Jane ) ~

Thanks for that book recommendation. I'll cruise by Chapters tomorrow. I recently found another book called Rational Mysticism (if you can believe that!) but it ended up being written by a man who ultimately couldn't make up his mind either.

That's really interesting about your experience with the rational vs. spiritual. I guess I can understand it from a certain perspective since I possess quite a strong logical side, however, my personal understanding of spirituality has always been with me and if it came down to it, spirituality would win. (Like if there was a fight between them or something, Spirituality would manage to end up the champion without even pulling a punch, 'cause Spirituality's a pacifist.)

And yeah, the ex-Scorp is a materialist, a capitalist and adores Ayn Rand's philosophy on objectivism (minus the misogyny).

What you said about Neptune being the possible reason that he's closed off to the intangible is something I thought about myself, but I didn't know why I was thinking it. It made sense but I wasn;t sure why. And I strongly feel that, like you did, he wants it to be true but cannot allow himself to believe beyond what he can prove.

I'll have a gander at that book, and maybe when I send him his t-shirts in the mail, a copy of it will accidentally fall into the package.

The dumbest part about all of this is the fact that I didn't even care that he was an athiest. I thought I would, and it was him who ended up caring.

Thanks for your take on this

posted August 28, 2007 08:19 AM            

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And yeah, the ex-Scorp is a materialist, a capitalist and adores Ayn Rand's philosophy on objectivism

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Meu Deus, me and your ex scorp soooo wouldn't get along. Even mine believes in something beyond the living, he's its just that he's not really that religious (I'm not really that religious too but I do enjoy going to church functions when I do for the same reason that Izo does ).

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Excellent point Dulce. I hadn't thought of the Cappy 12th. I do think sometimes that he may be clinging to the tangible because of fear of the unknown...but I also considered I might be clinging to that notion
How has having Saturn in the 12th affected you?

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Ooooo, its lots of ways. I'm not really afraid of the unkown per-say, but I used to be a big doubting Thomas on alot untangible things. Oddly, never was never "spirituality" or "relgion". I guess because of the neptune influence in my chart I've always felt naturally that there was something beyond this life. But there have been other things where I've needed "proof" to believe. Like for instance in thew past I used to doubt my intuition alot only to have it be correct everytime. And then there's the concept of soul mates/twin souls: of course there never really is tangible evidence on these things so I used to not really believe until I felt a very strong connection myself. Then I was on the fence, and because of fiurther "proof", and don't doubt the existence anymore.

posted August 29, 2007 02:43 AM            

"Rational Mysticism" sounds interesting. I'll keep an eye out for that one. It's tricky finding a book that will speak to different people. The book I linked to impacted me b/c it made the type of argument my mind needed, but I think different people respond to different arguments.

posted August 29, 2007 02:16 PM            

Jane ~

Yeah, I never really cottoned to the Ayn Rand theories although I do not disagree with her per se. I just think that in large part she lacks feeling and if there's no essential feeling in something, I find it far less substantial. Balance is important.

Yeah, call your instructor and have him phone Mr. Scorp I can count the laughs I've had on one finger as of late. I'm sure I could use another.

Dulce ~ I have struggled with the whole trusting-my-intuition thing as well (and I'm still working on it). It's a hard lesson. My 12th house stellium wants me to hide/doubt my knowledge but luckily my progressed Sun, Mercury and Venus are currently in Leo so there is a light (or a brightly burning sun) and the end of this long Neptunian tunnel.