posted September 20, 2007 04:39 AM            

quote:

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both siva and pluto represent the pineal gland, the depth of the soul. both kaali /parvati and venus represent the feminie principle.

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posted September 20, 2007 05:09 AM              

yes, its a nice aspect especially since its his kaali and ur siva. the interpretation is what u have read in other posts.
kaali aspecting a personal planet implies a past - life bons, also depending on how spiritual the couple is can mean a lot of spiritual evolution together.

posted September 20, 2007 06:01 AM              

quote:

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What about a Kaali-Saturn dw? Would that mean the Kundalini energy is restricted, and therefore no sexual attraction?
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no way , its a sureshot past - life connection, though it being saturn it might imply a mutual debt.
also saturn is not necessarily restrictive, it also acts as super -glue

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Music to my ears!! We've got a dw too

Though we don't have a Kaali-Siva aspect, but my Siva conjuncts his Isis (does this count?) and we have a square between our Kaali's. Is that bad? We also have the Nodes in a tight sextile, so lots of karma.
Hey Jane, we also have aspects with luminaries! His Siva conjuncts my Moon-Neptune-South Node [and btw Venusdeindia, his Siva will soon be conjuncted by Pluto in transit - what effect do you think it will have?].
And say if his Parvati conjuncts my Sun, does that mean that he sees me as his ideal partner? I am asking, coz his Isis also does an aspect with my Sun (sextile).

We have an oddly big number of dw's involving a marriage/love indicator and a karmic indicator... like:
Karma-POM dw (2 conjunctions)
Kaali-POM dw (conj+oppo)
NN-Union dw (conj+oppo)
NN-Part of Lovers dw (2 conj)

posted September 20, 2007 10:08 AM              

Izo,
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We've got a dw too
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the freakier part is when u see a pattern of such asteroid double whammies.
look at my case,
his siva conjunct my parvati,
his kali conjunct my saturn opposes his Isis which is also conjunct my Karma
his karma conjunct my pluto opposes his Rudra exactly !!
my Rudra conjuncts his Pluto !!
better his Draco siva and my Draco Valentine conjunct on his True node !
his Draco Valentine conjunct my TR. Venus -chiron opposes his Pluto.
his Draco Isis conjunct my draco Vertex
My Tr. neptune, spirit conjunct His draco vertex.
my Juno zero degree conjunct his Sun !!!
his Juno zero degree conjunct my Saturn.
no node interaction but yikes my siderel node bang to the minute on his Ascendent.
his sidereal node bang on my Tropical.
i could go on , many more freaky aspects.

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Venusdeindia, his Siva will soon be conjuncted by Pluto in transit - what effect do you think it will have?].
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depends on his natal chart entirely . if like me he was a person who practised Tantra or like in a past life , it could be a good time to resume. i had Tr. Pluto opposed my Natal Kaali when i got initiated. and was an athiest until then

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And say if his Parvati conjuncts my Sun, does that mean that he sees me as his ideal partner? I am asking, coz his Isis also does an aspect with my Sun (sextile
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sure tell him about the siva - parvati myth. he accepted her as his consort after she performed a penence for a thousand years only so she could be his wife. as per Tantra this physical, dual dimension is borne of their love - making

posted September 20, 2007 11:49 AM            

Iq said that Kaali/Moon DW's exact could possibly mean a past mothering kind of relationship, what do you think?

posted September 20, 2007 12:06 PM              

"u can download the declination conversion chart from www.astro.com
Where on astro.com can you do it? I didn´t found the declination converter.

"kaali also indicates kundalini and rebirth. do the math"
Hmm, if Kaali indicates Kundalini / Rebirth and Juno means marriage, could it be interpreted as a spiritual awakening, a rebirth in or through the marriage?
Or that both partners can awaken Kundalini-energy in each other, when they are married? Preferably with each other, I guess.

"no way , its a sureshot past - life connection, though it being saturn it might imply a mutual debt."
There are actually a lot of Saturn-aspects, including dw`s; even more clear to see in the draconics (double Venus-Saturn-conjunction, double SAturn-Isis-conjunction; double Saturn-Osiris-conjunction) - as I said a lot of Saturn-energy. And did I mention, there is a lot of node-energy as well (Saturn square Node, Node conjunct ASC / DSC, Saturn opposite Venus, Node-Nessus, Node-Mars, NOde-IC, Node-Node and so on).

"u should, read up on Kaali here. www.shivashakti.com
Thank you for the link.

Oh I almost forgot, in the mentioned synastry there is also a dw of Parvati - Karma.

I loved the pic you posted.

posted September 21, 2007 01:37 AM              

DD
i had googled on declinations, i m sorry i made a mistake, its http://www.astrologyweekly.com/declination/index.php

posted September 21, 2007 09:36 AM              

thank you for the link.

I also noticed in the synastry I was talking about were another very interesting exact dw:

His Siva conjunct her PoF (0.11)
Her Siva conjunct his PoF (0.00!!)

Now, I only would have to know what PoF actually means. But it seems to be important, since it`s an arabic part and therefor calculated with the ascendant, pretty individual.

When I delved a bit deeper into that synastry, I found the interplay involving the tantric asteroids fascinating. I have to investigate those interactions further to see if there are patterns in the tropical, draco and sidereal.

Oh btw, while reading on that page you gave us the link, too, I stumbled over the name "Kama", apparently the god of procreation; I don`t know how important he is, but I put him into both horoscopes, and there is actually a Parvati-Kama-dw.
Interesting.

DD

posted September 24, 2007 09:00 AM              

you calculate Draconics using this calculator:
http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php

posted January 01, 2008 11:38 PM            

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

posted January 13, 2008 05:46 PM            

now if you said that the plutonian apogee is plutonian, I would agree with you because it's based on pluto's orbit in relation to earth.

I admit when I used black moon lilith and didn't understand the astronomy, I thought that lilith seem to have a combination of pluto,uranus...because lilith has an independent,unconventional nature and it had an intensity.

however, a lot of people don't understand that the moon can be erratic as it fluctuates and the moon is intuitive,sensitive and so be perceptive.

You can't get more feminine than the moon's symbolism.

also..Lilith was even thought to relate to succubi which are creatures that invade dreams of men. Moon is associated with the unconscious. It was associated with dreams before Neptune was discovered.

The Moon has a very rich symbolism that doesn't need Lilith. Moon has to do with feminine,women overall.

Now that I have looked more into the astronomy of astrology, I learned that black moon lilith is strong lunar symbolism.

I don't even think that lunar apogee should even be named named lilith nor black moon lilith any way.

we don't call the apogees of planets, black planets. so why the moon's apogee.

posted January 14, 2008 05:35 AM              

here is a bit
"Most of all, Lilith is the guardian of the Tree of Knowledge, her Serpent self symbolic of the Tree of Knowledge energy, the Tree’s own Kundalini that flows up through it’s branches like a wellspring of undefiled wisdom."

i had also read Barbara Clows work on pluto and chiron.
she reckons that unless pluto , lord of the fire of Hades ., kundalini to paraphrase is released by releasing emotions ,chiron work of transmutation and healing cannot be done.

from my knowledge of Tantric theories that deal with spiritual evolution , the goddess Kaali ( the symbology of kali resembles lilith ) rules the Kundalini flow up the spine into the third eye , that is a prerequisite for evolution .

reaching into metaphysics, the human body is surrounded by 6 energy bodies or levels of consciousness.

emotional body, will body, astral body,energy body ,etheric body and spirit body.
phew

from Jeffrey Greens work and other resonating studies , Moon and Pluto jointly rule our Emotional Body, that is influenced by our day to day emotions as well as the sub- conscious repressed ones .
neptune rules our spiritual body.

the energy body ruled by uranus , comprising of nadis ( energy channels ) and kundalini is the connector that connects the physical, emotional ,will bodies ( being of thew earth plane ) to the etheric, astral and spirit body.

posted January 14, 2008 08:16 AM              

I think you maybe mean the same thing, just have different names for it.

"lilith being the shadow side of moon, and socially repressed psychological and emotional stuff, also affects our emotional body like pluto."

To me it seems that what we often call "Plutonic" is just another lunar side, the more uncivilised side of the moon. But that is exactly what both of you said, isn`t it?

We just kind of have forgotten that the moon is not only soft and gentle and fluffy, and Lilith (and maybe even Pluto) reminds us of the "darker" side of the moon.
But it`s all part of the feminine principle.

And yes, I agree, Venus de India, just imagine an interconnection of Lilith, Moon and Pluto in synastry.
Funny enough, I found that in one of my "synastries": There`s his Lilith exactly conjunct my Karma and trine his Pluto, and both, his LIlith and Pluto are trine my Moon.
And his Moon is trine my Lilith and contraparallel my Pluto. lol

Even funnier, in the composite there is an exact Chiron / Lilith-conjunction (and parallel), which trines the Moon / Mars-conjunction in 12th house exactly.

posted January 14, 2008 10:23 AM            

I think of the Lilith energy as a feminist energy,and I feel that relates to the Moon's extremes.

I have
Sun in 5'20 Scorpio
Osculating Lunar Apogee in 5'41 Scorpio
Osculating Lunar Perigree in 5'41 Taurus

I feel that it's a strong feminine energy,and that it's very feminist. My girlfriend even told me that I am more feminist than she is. I had told her that I believed that females can do anything as good as males can and even better. I had told her that there are females that are stronger than males. She and I had a disagreement about the safety of women walking home at night alone. She was totally against it. I was trying to not to generalize all women and say that women can take care of themselves....some women are stronger than other women. I guess I was wrong,but I was trying to see is as equality of the genders. That's why she said that I was more feminist than her.

It would make sense that the apogee of planets are the dark side of the planets.

Would Pluto apogee be darkside of Pluto. Would that be considered a Plutonian Pluto.
would any apogee for that matter.

Would the darkside of life relate only to Pluto.

Mercury in 18'21 Scorpio
osculating Mercury Apogee in 18'18 Scorpio

Would my Mercury conjunct its apogee mean that my Mercury is conjunct its darkside?
I could weed out the darkside qualities of the Mercury Apogee from the Scorpio.
I do have history of difficulties involving things that are ruled by Mercury

Astrology is strongly based on Astronomy.
I feel that when we refer to the lunar apogee as Lilith, black moon and call it Plutonian then we are not acknowledging the lunar symbolism based on its lunar orbit.

It just seems to me that the dark side of the Moon could be feminism that is taken to the extreme that females are superior to males.

Interestingly

according to KEYWORDS IN ASTROLOGY by Hajo Banzhaf and Anna Haebler

for the Moon
SHADOW: The monster that devours everything.
(that can seem to fit Lilith)

Problem Area: The moody person. Difficult configurations represent emotional wounds,reticience,mistrust,fear,touchiness,moods,
unpredictability,as well as vanity,exaggerate d smugness,laziness,and lethargy.

Overall those traits could fit right in with Lilith.

It seems that its possible that a challenged Moon can have Lilith-like traits too. If refer to the lunar apogee as Lilith, then it makes sense that a challenged Moon can be Lilith-like too.

I have Moon as apex of a t-square,and so my Moon is quite challenged,and that could indicate that I have strong Lilith traits.
I have Sun conjunct osculating lunar apogee,and so that be strong Lilith traits.
I am a male,and my strong feminine traits has led to many people giving me a hard time because I don't fit male stereotypes. I even have high levels of estrogen reflected by my very feminine finger ratios(index finger longer than ring finger).

I would think that people who identify with Lilith not only have strong aspects to the lunar apogee, but they could have a strong lunar influence,or a challenged Moon.

I wonder about Venus apogee as dark Venus

My Osculating Venus Apogee is in 13'32 Sagittarius
My Ascendant is in 13'27 Virgo
My Girlfriend's Ascendant is in 13'43 Pisces

So would that mean my Dark Venus squares my Ascendant and my girlfriend's Ascendant? Would that mean a deep soul-love bond?

my other aspects to perigree or apogee

Ascendant in 13'27 Virgo
osculating Pluto Perigree in 14'19 Scorpio
osculating Pluto Apogee in 14'49 Taurus

Venus in 21'47 Scorpio
osculating Mars Perigree in 21'21 Capricorn
osculating Uranus Apogee in 20'59 Pisces

Jupiter in 8'17 Sagittarius
osculating Jupiter Apogee in 8'36 Aries
osculating Saturn Apogee in 8'53 Cancer

Pluto in 00'51 Libra
osculating Venus Perigree in 1'27 Libra

Uranus in 15'17 Libra
osculating Eris Perigree in 14'46 Libra
osculating Eris Apogeee in 14'01 Aries

btw...orbs are supposed to be tight for planetary nodes and perigree/apogee axis
no more than 1 to 2 degrees.