posted October 12, 2007 03:03 AM            

Though most explainaitons regarding this position seem kinda controdictory to me since the natives of this placement are described as "Lifetime students," wanting to explore the unknown, yet at the same time are "afraid" of the unknown andtry to stick to the familiar.

posted October 12, 2007 03:05 AM            

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Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

posted October 13, 2007 09:52 AM            

I have Liz Greene on Saturn in all the houses and signs copied from her excellent Saturn book: "A New Look At An Old Devil" if you wish any put up.....

Here's her take on Saturn in Gemini or the Third House:

quote:

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Saturn in Gemini and the third house
The third house symbolises the sphere of the intellectual, of education, communication, and movement. It offers some indication of the kind of mind a man possesses, the manner in which he goes about developing it, how he communicates, and the subjects which provide food for his intellectual nourishment. Gemini seeks information for its own sake rather than for a material end and is simply curious about life and the diversity of its manifestations. As the first airy sign, it is the intellectual flexing its own muscles. Unlike its opposite sign, Sagittarius, which seeks to correlate the diverse fragments of life and find among them a common meaning which reflects a larger concept, Gemini is content to revel in diversity. The third house reflects this aspect of the mind and this tendency to perceive, analyse, differentiate, label, and then move on. In order to acquire the information necessary for this kind of relation to life, communication must be established so that knowledge can flow back and forth and new interpretations can be given to old material.

Saturn in the third house, when he is functioning in an unconscious way, has a tendency to block this breathing in and breathing out; he places strain on the faculty of easy communication and often produces a fear of that which is new, unexplored, and irrational. The flight of the mind is grounded by the demand for empiric information, for that which has been tried and proven safe. From this we may see some reason for the connexion often suggested between Saturn's associations with Gemini, the third house, and Mercury, and diseases of the lungs, particularly asthma, an illness which medical science recognises as psychosomatic or functional in nature. There appears to be a symbolic relationship between the biological phenomenon of breathing, whereby oxygen is brought into the body, and the psychological need for intake of information about the environment. Both appear to be equally necessary for survival, the former for bodily survival, the latter for psychic survival.

There are various external situations which are often associated with a third house Saturn, but they all tend to reflect this symbolic inability to breathe freely with the intellect. The individual who as a child is denied education, or given a narrow and restrictive education, is common, and this often mars his capacity to approach life with fresh mental interest later because his creative mental faculties have never been stimulated. Equally frequent is the only child who is denied companionship and communication with others of his own age and finds that later in life he has lost the faculty for spontaneous communication. Often there is fear behind the apparent paralysis of the mind which sometimes occurs. The child may be considered stupid because he is silent, or he may have been constantly criticised for his speech and has learned to keep his thoughts to himself, and later on, when there is no longer a disapproving parent or teacher to criticise, he finds that he has lost the capacity to share his innermost thoughts. Speech defects and difficulties also occur frequently with Saturn in the third house. These are often functional and are based on fear and insecurity, such as stuttering or stammering. Also common is the individual who simply cannot communicate easily, particularly about those personal and ordinary matters which are the traditional province of the third house. He may display unusual mental gifts, concentration, and depth of thought, but he finds it most painful to participate in the "small talk" which serves as a symbolic gesture of common humanity. To the man with Saturn in the third house, speech must contain items of serious interest, and he may display an unusually pedantic quality in his speech and his writing, for Saturn dislikes superficiality.

With all of these various expressions the common thread remains, and it is connected with the frustration of the mind and of communication. There is inevitably a feeling of isolation with this placement because the mind is generally deep and by nature serious, and there is usually some fear of being humiliated or of sounding silly or foolish to others. There is frequently a feeling of inadequacy about the mental equipment although Saturn in the third house is often a brilliant scholar. The brilliance, however, is rarely from intuition but rather from many long hours of painful concentration and self-discipline. Information must be concrete and provable to be of use to Saturn, and this tendency to crystallisation of knowledge is antithetical to the light and purposeless meanderings of the third house. To Mercury all information is of use, even if it is not the truth.

The phenomenon of overcompensation may also be observed with Saturn in the third house. Often the individual may be one of those who "talks a blue streak", and this tendency to loquaciousness—apparently in contradiction to the ordinary reading of Saturn here—is also apparent with Mercury-Saturn configurations and with Mercury in Capricorn as well. Inevitably the subject of conversation will range in every field except those which truly mean something to the individual. He will say many things but will rarely say what he actually feels. He is no closer to communicating than is the more taciturn individual with the same placement. Saturn in the third house has a reputation for tact, diplomacy, and a canny mind, and this tendency to circumlocution is very useful to a statesman or politician; it is often one of the greatest gifts of a third house Saturn. But this does not ease the isolation of the individual; it only increases it for he cannot truly express himself.

The more silent type of third house Saturn is a more typical expression. His field of interest may often be an earthbound and occasionally a narrow one although he will generally be careful, thorough and methodical in his thinking. Sometimes one may meet a kind of thick-headed, obstinate, almost deliberate stupidity with Saturn in the third house, and it is difficult to imagine that this creature and the brilliant mental gymnastics of the accomplished statesman may reflect a similar inner sense of fear and inability to share personal thoughts and feelings. But Saturn is rarely stupid. He may tend to cling to that which is pragmatically provable because he feels uneasy in lighter and more irrational realms. Saturn in the third house often underrates his intellectual capacities and may raise a shield of rather stubborn or dogmatic opinions to protect himself against the onslaught of those he considers more clever than himself.

When this placement is seen from the point of view of the opportunity offered, the sense of isolation and impatience with superficial ideas and attitudes may become an inner striving for truth, insofar as this is capable of perception by the human mind. The individual is turned inward by his circumstances and his fears so that he seeks reasons for things and begins to explore their structure and meaning. The inquiring mind dedicated to the intellectual understanding of those things which are shrouded in mystery, or belong to the realm of the irrational, is characteristic of the man with Saturn in the third house who has accepted his apparent isolation in the face of the more meaningful contribution he is able to make to the sphere of knowledge. Saturn only becomes dogmatic when the man is afraid of the unknown and of his own lack of knowledge and of intellectual training. The suggestion with Saturn's placement in the third house is that the knowledge must be acquired through experience and personal observation, and that the training must be taken from life itself. No other education will suffice because to the person with this placement, Saturn's inner strength and independence must be applied to the development of the mind.

There is often a connexion drawn between accidents — particularly those occuring during travel—and the third house. As this house is linked with mental and physical motion and coordination, it is often called the house of short journeys, both of the body and the mind. It is of some value to explore this idea of accidents and of what is called the accident-prone tendency as it is often suggested by afflicted planets, particularly Saturn, in the third house. It is possible to assume a completely empiric attitude to this question and to accept the idea that by some mysterious law, or by the hand of fate, Saturn in the third house precipitates accidents—and that if one has an accident, that is one's fate. This same attitude may be applied to many of the darker expressions of Saturn's placements, and this inevitably poses questions which can only be answered philosophically rather than empirically; however, this sort of blind passivity in the face of a totally predestined future is in direct antithesis to any constructive interpretation of Saturn or, for that matter, with any other factor on the natal chart. If we are indeed circumscribed by the boundaries of fate or our "karma", we cannot know where this boundary lies in the individual's case until we attempt to pass it. It is very possible that the boundary varies from person to person.

It is apparent that in many instances Saturn in the third house is concurrent with a fear of those things which are new, untried, irrational, or uncontrollable and which require a genuine sharing of minds on a personal level. Psychology has recognised for a long time that many apparently accidental injuries and illnesses are in reality a kind of arrangement, constructed by the unconscious mind of the individual, to avoid a situation which looms in the future or to achieve attention or power within the personal environment. This kind of situation occurs with some frequency in the case of Saturn in the sixth house where it is often expressed through illness or hypochondria. It is often expressed as an accident-prone tendency with Saturn in the third house, and it will usually be found in these cases that if the individual's inner life is examined with some care, the motive for the incapacitation will emerge with clarity. This does not mean that all accidents stem from this kind of "arrangement". But many do. Sometimes a few weeks in a bed, although physically uncomfortable, is preferable to confronting a situation which requires change or a new outlook.

It is inconceivable to many people that a man could deliberately injure himself or make himself sick because he does not wish to deal with a problem in his life. It is not the conscious personality which decides such things but the forces of the unconscious, which are fully capable under certain exceptional conditions of even destroying the man, physically or psychically—the latter being termed insanity. We know very little about the amount of power contained in the darker portions of the psyche, but we are learning that it merits our respect and our careful handling. Saturn is frequently responsible for the repression of fears and resentments because he is symbolic of the shadow, and the ordinary man does not wish to consider that the qualities he despises the most may exist within his own psyche; nor will he readily admit that his judgment may be in error and that these qualities can be positive, constructive, and of use to him.

The acceptance of responsibility necessary for a comprehension of Saturn is not the mea culpa which condemns, but a recognition that the human mind may have more power over the arrangement of one's outer circumstances than we care to admit and that there is much that we do not know about ourselves. When this attitude is related to accident-proneness and to Saturn in the third house, it is possible to avoid the necessity of an accident if the unpleasant situation precipitating it is recognised. Even if one considers the reality of karmic obligations, it is unlikely that anything occurs to a human being which is not necessary for his growth or the growth of the group, and the orderly beauty of life as it is reflected by the horoscope scarcely implies that random and senseless suffering is part of that order. Saturn always strives for the truth; it is man's fear of this motivation within himself that brings about the catastrophe, for the relentless search for reality as symbolised by Saturn threatens his most cherished illusions.

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posted October 13, 2007 02:19 PM            

" Unlike its opposite sign, Sagittarius, which seeks to correlate the diverse fragments of life and find among them a common meaning which reflects a larger concept,"

posted October 13, 2007 06:34 PM            

You have no idea how much that helped. Seriously. Especially the description about the 3rd house native being afraid of what the actual reality of the situation is as compared to his own idealistic views.

Guess reality is what shaped me to tread on a constant quest towards self-improvement... Wayyy too much personal stuff. Won't get into it.

However as to other description about making excuses... Nu-uh Lol! Too much self-pride and respect (and an inflated ego ) to back down from challenges Lol!

But thanks a million for that babe .

BUD:

quote:

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Yup that be me i also have a terrible fear of public speaking...counterintuitive being the VP of the debate team...but i do..

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posted October 14, 2007 05:45 PM            

Indeed I have sweets and man... Reading over that segment you posted kinda came off as a bit of a surprise. I knew Saturn in the 8th had intimicy issues but I didn't know they ran THAT deep Lol!

In all honesty, Mines don't run that deep and as a result affection isn't the issue Lol! Both my parents have been genuinely wonderful and cared from the bottom of their hearts about my well-being; To the point where they didn't wanna smother any of us brothers and teach us the value of self-Sustinence. Though I guess there is a bit of a reluctance from time to time to open my heart and my inner-self fully to people. Its not that I don' trust them... Its just the bsic principle of the thing when it comes to past-lovers and friends who adruptedly died before their time.

Deeper attachment always leads to pain so its kinda hard to follow up on that level of intimacy.

But when I do find that affectional level with someone... They know it Lol! Oh they definately know it.

posted October 14, 2007 09:21 PM            

For me it manifests physically at times. Having asthma, I think this is a bit of an esoteric manifestaton of not being able to say what one wants to say... It is like everything just gets all bottled up and has to release somehow, so it manifests as dis-ease. I have observed this in many of the asthmatic patients I have cared for as well! I stuttered as a child, another Saturn in 3rd thing.

I am much better at written word, than verbal communication.

posted January 10, 2008 12:13 PM            

Interestingly,my mother told me that my father had the same traits too..she told me that he stuttered and stammered. I kinda stuttered and stammered too.

posted January 10, 2008 12:21 PM            

House definitions can be murky waters. Twenty or more keywords that often send a mixed and [resultant] conflicted message.

The sign on the 3rd describes not only the streets around our home. Perhaps more importantly, it describes the type of mental stimulation we seek in our day-to-day environment. I have 3rd house neighbors around the world who satisfy my Scorpio needs for depth and intimate exchange; regularly I invite Oprah and Dr. Phil into my living room too. The 3rd house tells what types of communication we'll find interesting--which suggests another means for keeping our 3rd house experience fresh. When your daily round grows routine or too overwhelming, examine the neighborhood you've been frequenting. Where do you get your news? Whose influence are you absorbing? Does this neighborhood serve the archetypal hunger of your 3rd house planets and signs?

posted January 10, 2008 01:52 PM              

quote:

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Another Saturn in Scorpio (3rd house) here.. I'm very serious about the ways I communicate, the way I think (reason), and I also like to learn (I'm curious about various things, and feel insecure when I can't understand something I'm trying to understand). And I often feel insecure (specially in the public) about the way I communicate/think/learn coz of this seriouness I have (so that explains why I'm a lifetime student, yet fearing for the unknown.. I need to feel that I have a solid domination on what I know).. ^_^; Having this in the sign of Scorpio and also a Virgo ascendant, I guess that it added even more seriousness.. XP

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posted January 11, 2008 05:59 PM            

I am not repressed and I can talk alot, but then I have Mercury in Gemini conjunct my Ascendant. But in general, I think I'm usually, though not always, a better writer than I am a speaker.

I know I can agree with what Xiodan initially asked: "Natives like to learn but are afraid of the unfamiliar?" I am awfully fearful of change that I do not instigate myself. And yet I cannot seem to learn enough or study enough or read enough...and all of this learning is ironically in regards to change and transformation. It's a bit of a paradox. It's almost like preparing one's self to change by thinking or fantasizing about it, often times for quite a while. It's far less nerve-wracking to change something for me in my head than to contemplate doing it in real life.

I can also relate to the theory of psychosomatic illnesses/unconscious creation of illness or accidents to avoid change. I'm not as afraid of confrontation as I am of change...unless I am sure that confrontation will 100% lead to vast change.
I was ill a lot when I was younger and I know it came directly from fear.

Communication is supremely important to me. When I was little, I had a lisp, couldn't enunciate the letter R and spoke very softly in public.