posted November 07, 2007 11:38 AM              

I think a lack of aspects involving Venus will ultimately end in a break-up. In order to have strong romantic connection you gotta have Sun/Venus, Venus/Moon and Venus/Mars contacts as well as aspects from Sun, Moon, Venus and/or Mars to the Ascendant, I think. Even Venus/Pluto contacts (both favorable and unfavorable) can be quite uniting provided there are other aspects with personal planets indicating attraction as well. A perfect Sun/Moon trine won't help your relationship much when there's no sexual attraction there (I know that most people won't agree with me on this one. But I think ANY contact to the other person's Moon will do. It doesn't always have to be Sun/Moon. Moon/Ascendant conjunctions for instance are even more intense than a Sun/Moon trine IMHO ... but that's all beside the point). The same holds true for a Venus/Jupiter trine. I mean, it sure is nice to have a Venus/Jupiter trine along with Sun/Venus, Venus/Mars or Venus/Moon contacts in your synastry. But a Venus/Jupiter trine alone won't be enough to sustain a long-term relationship, IMHO.

Also, I think aspects like a Moon/Moon square or a Moon/Mars square are A LOT worse than unfavorable aspects involving Saturn. Saturn-aspects are not all that individual, as you would have those aspects with a lot of people born within a certain period of time.

posted November 07, 2007 11:44 AM              

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but that would also take away the joy of love, coz what is love without pain?)

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posted November 07, 2007 02:10 PM              

"Sun/Venus, Venus/Moon and Venus/Mars contacts as well as aspects from Sun, Moon, Venus and/or Mars to the Ascendant, I think. Even Venus/Pluto contacts (both favorable and unfavorable) can be quite uniting"
I basically agree with you, but I think it`s very unlikely that a couple has all these aspects within 3° - 4°.

I did a short analysis of some couples and counted the number of those aspects you mentioned.

My mum and dad (married for over 30 years): 4
Paul Newman - Joanne Woodward: 5
Paul McCartney - Linda Eastman: 3
Antonio Banderas-Melanie Griffith:4
Johnny Cash - June Carter: 3
Johnny Depp - Vanessa Paradis: 4

They don`t have all the aspects, but those they have include some very strong ones.

"A perfect Sun/Moon trine won't help your relationship much when there's no sexual attraction there"
I definitely agree. Sexual attraction is an important factor in relationships, or else we could just stay friends.

"But I think ANY contact to the other person's Moon will do. It doesn't always have to be Sun/Moon. Moon/Ascendant conjunctions for instance are even more intense than a Sun/Moon trine"
I definitely think so.

"he same holds true for a Venus/Jupiter trine. I mean, it sure is nice to have a Venus/Jupiter trine along with Sun/Venus, Venus/Mars or Venus/Moon contacts in your synastry."
Yes, I agree, it`s all about the big picture. One aspect alone don`t make or break a relationship. Even a Venus-Pluto-conjunction on its own will not keep a couple together, when there is no interaction between personal planets or the ruler of the personal houses (1,4,5,7 and 8).

"Also, I think aspects like a Moon/Moon square or a Moon/Mars square are A LOT worse than unfavorable aspects involving Saturn."
I mostly agree. But it depends a little bit. For example my Moon is in Aquarius, which means, I should have serious difficulties with a Taurus-Moon, but my Moon is in the 2nd house, the Taurus-house, and as a matter of fact, I often react very Taurus-like emotionwise.

posted November 07, 2007 04:12 PM            

I dunno about that moon square moon being all that bad. I think it has to do with your natal aspects. My moon is pretty much a loner, other than one trine to Amor (and that's 5 degrees)! I have had several long term relationships with that moon square moon aspect. The only thing that it really indicated, in my case, was that we tended to express love in different ways, and the other wouldn't always interpret the action as a loving thing. But the more you get to know someone, AND if communication is good, you figure these things out!

Almost every one of my past synastries has a moon/pluto connection. (My unaspected moon is in my 8th house.) It shows how our own blueprint kinda determines what we're attracted to, IMHO.

DD,

"How did you buy it?"
I think I had to e mail them.

"Did it go okay?"
Ummm...well...I had issues with the whole thing.

"I`ve been pondering of buying it, too. I would invest that money, yes, but I somehow don`t like the idea of having to join their society before I can buy it."

That was one of my issues.

"Did you join? What does it mean to have joined?"

I joined...to get the software. I'm still not sure what it means to join. I think it's just a sales technique. You basically have access to their websites...nothing more. I didn't find anything on the sites that was more enlightening that what they already post for free. And the sites are ridiculous to navigate. Instead of having one main site with webpages, they have eight billion individual sites. Then they assign you a user name and password for each one of these sites through seperate e mails. So...every time you want to look at anything it gets so frustrating and annoying trying to figure out which user name (out of 6 that they sent me) goes with which site and password...that I'm actually angry by the time I get there! LOL!

"And more important is the software good? Does it have interpretations?"

Another issue I had was that they "updated" the software. Ya know the charts they show on the site w/ the s curve in the middle? They changed that. Another thing is if I were to do a chart for you, I can't save it to anywhere but my Magi folder...i.e. I can't e mail it to you. I can send you interpretations though, if you want to take a gander. The only thing, if you don't mind, is please send long/lat instead of birth towns, as that's how the software works.

The main issue that I had was that on all of their websites they talk about Chiron, Juno, etc. When you get the software, they don't even include the asteroids. You have to purchase all of the "upgrades" seperately. Annoying. With all of that said...I do agree w/ the Chiron/Venus aspects, as well as lots of the other things they have researched. It's like they have a great thing going, but someone's ego is taking the forefront instead of the great info. That's just my perspective, though.

Being me, of course, I made suggestions for improvement to the "customer service" person, who let me know that they would be keeping things the way they are...a mass of confusion. I'm guessing she was the same one who wrote the interps with the tag lines such as "no matter what traditional astrology says, this aspect means nothing." Oy e vay.

8th

posted November 07, 2007 04:15 PM              

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I basically agree with you, but I think it`s very unlikely that a couple has all these aspects within 3° - 4°.

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MY Sun sextile HIS Venus (0 degrees)
MY Sun conjunct HIS Ascendant (0 degrees)
MY Moon opposite HIS Venus (4 degrees)
MY Moon trine HIS Ascendant (5 degrees)
HIS Moon conjunct MY Ascendant (6 degrees)
HIS Venus trine MY Mars (1 degree)
MY Mars sextile HIS Ascendant (2 degrees)

quote:

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I mostly agree. But it depends a little bit. For example my Moon is in Aquarius, which means, I should have serious difficulties with a Taurus-Moon, but my Moon is in the 2nd house, the Taurus-house, and as a matter of fact, I often react very Taurus-like emotionwise.

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quote:

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i thought moon square mars indicated alot of passion? why is this such a bad aspects?

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Here are a few interpretations I found on my computer on the Moon/Mars square:

skylarkbooks.co.uk

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This can be a real ouch, emotionally. There is likely to be a great deal of volatility in this relationship and, when emotions flare (as they most definitely will) one of you -- often the Mars person -- may lash out without regard for the emotional pain you may cause the other. There is a tendency to have many disagreements, which you may be incapable of settling rationally and which can often become tearful or angry scenes. The Mars person is likely to feel defensive during clashes, while the Moon person feels wounded. The best way to handle these situations is to learn not to take everything the other says so personally, even if it seems as if there’s not other way to take it, but to try to see where the other is coming from. Most important -- be kind in what you say to, and how you act toward, each other. Disagreements should never be cause for, or include, personal attacks and insults.

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cafeastrology.com

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The square and opposition are rather similar in nature to the conjunction, but more problematic. The emotional rollercoaster can be trying—particularly for the Moon person. The Moon person finds Mars overly aggressive, pushy, and defensive. The Mars person feels the Moon person is too demanding and needy. The couple reacts in instinctual, spontaneous ways to one another—to a point that there is little reason or logic involved. With a propensity to react to each other without thinking, it is easy to imagine that plenty of hurt feelings are a by-product. Defensiveness, nagging, and "immature" behavior are all strong possibilities with this combination. Co-dependency issues are also quite possible. These people arouse each other's passions—both pleasant and difficult ones. The Moon person might want a promise or a commitment from the Mars person, and find it challenging that Mars prefers to take things one day at a time. The Mars person's displays of independence and self-assertion can be seen as dominating by the Moon person, and it can threaten the Moon person's very sense of security. The negative and angry interplays between these individuals will play out most powerfully when they live together—things can actually get a little nasty. Particularly with the square, the Moon person might tend to complain and dump emotional hurts and frustrations on the Mars person. The Mars person has a way of pulling out dependency in the Moon person. Even if the Moon person is an emotionally "together" person with others, the chemistry between Moon and Mars is such that Mars tends to draw out any needy and/or fearful/depressed feelings in the Moon person. It's simply very hard to relax in one another's company. Resentment towards one another, over time, is likely. This is a very temperamental combination.

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astrology-numerology.com

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This is one of the most difficult and emotionally explosive of all comparative aspects. The Mars person is likely to be impatient with the Moon person. Conversely, the Moon may view Mars as rude, insensitive and overbearing. This combination is likely to produce emotional clashes and arguments. It is unfavorable for marriage and living together, although the physical attraction of the aspect does frequently result in the development of relationships.

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posted November 07, 2007 08:44 PM              

This is a nice thread indeed and it's got a lot of good ideas! Thank you!

My contribution would be to check your declinations out (close parallels and contra-parallels between you) before giving the wider orbed synastry (like 6 degrees and beyond) too much significance. Tight declinational synastry can mean a LOT MORE than wide longitudinal synastry.

And I agree completely about Venus-Chiron being a great glue between people. However, about the Saturn-Chiron negative aspects (include the quincunx and the contraparallel here) - while the Magi do say that it causes heartbreak, they also say that in the beginning of a relationship, the Saturn-Chiron can act as a greater attractor than a lot of other negative aspects. In other words, it draws the two of you in, and then sets you up for a worse fall than if it hadn't. Say, some other negative aspect like Saturn-Pluto might not act this way at all. It might make people stay away from each other, you know? But the Chiron brings in the emotion, the Saturn the glue. Then, depending on a lot of other things, it can go badly bust BECAUSE of the Chiron-Saturn contact. That's why it's a "heartbreak", not just any old "breakup". I hope I am making sense here.

I also agree about the MS and the way they conduct their business. Someone's ego is sure on a BIG trip there.

posted November 08, 2007 08:38 AM              

quote:

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My contribution would be to check your declinations out (close parallels and contra-parallels between you) before giving the wider orbed synastry (like 6 degrees and beyond) too much significance. Tight declinational synastry can mean a LOT MORE than wide longitudinal synastry.

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Now, I've been wanting to take a closer look at the declinations between my special someone and me for quite some time ... Using an orb of 1 degree we have:

HIS Sun contraparallel MY Moon
MY Sun parallel HIS Venus
MY Sun parallel HIS Ascendant
HIS Moon parallel MY Venus
HIS Vertex parallel MY Moon
HIS Vertex parallel MY North Node
[We also have HIS Chiron contraparallel MY Saturn, but like I explained in my previous posts I don't really agree with the negative "You are doomed"-interpretation of Magi Astrology.]

posted November 08, 2007 09:20 AM              

I've read that it didn't matter whether it was parallel or contraparallel, just that there is a linkage there. Is this true? Or is the parallel the "harmonious" aspect and contraparallel the "disharmonious" one?

Here's a quote from one of the sites that has already been referenced here:

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I'm also going to introduce you to another natal chart that most astrologists don't use (except the Magi Society) and that is the declinational chart. There's an explanation as to what a
declination is, but just trust me, it's another measurement
of a planet's position. There is just as much validity to this charts' information as a longitudinal one. It is however,
measured differently. It's measurement looks like this
- Venus - 24N31, or Mars - 10S15 ,
and the N and S indicate whether it was/is south or north of the equator. It also doesn't matter if the planet's position is N or S,
just the orb of degrees is important. The orb of aspect
is strongest within a 1.2 degrees. So for an example here,
take our Venus at 24N31, a Mars that is somewhere
between 23N/S11 and 25N/S51 would be strongest in orb.
Also, there are no harmonious or challenging aspects, just connections.

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posted November 08, 2007 03:46 PM            

If you want me to make a Magi/declination report for you and your SO, shoot me your info and e mail. Just please, as I mentioned to DD, send me the lat/long instead of birth towns.

posted November 08, 2007 04:25 PM              

And I will shamelessly accept it.

Here is the data:

Me:
18. December 1974
07:07 a.m.
6e20 51N15

Him:
7. April 1962
about 5:00 a.m. (birthtime may vary from 04:45 - 5:45)
4e29 51N55

My mail: Sulpicia@yahoo.com

Thank you.

posted November 08, 2007 04:31 PM            

Forgot that I need the name of birthplace too because I have to enter the world time zone. (Unless you happen to know it!)

posted November 08, 2007 05:07 PM              

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Sag,

If you want me to make a Magi/declination report for you and your SO, shoot me your info and e mail. Just please, as I mentioned to DD, send me the lat/long instead of birth towns.

8th

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Awww, that is so sweet of you 8th!!! Thanks a lot!!!

Here's our data:

posted November 08, 2007 05:27 PM            

Thanks for listing the time zone...made life easier!

posted November 09, 2007 09:31 AM              

the countries are Germany / Netherlands. I think the timezone would be GMT-1.

posted November 09, 2007 02:05 PM              

"Your english is great!"
Danke schön!

Actually I`ve learnt English through movies and the INternet. Didn`t have that much English at school, and have always been very shy about speaking English, because apparently I never have been good; that`s maybe the reason I am still a bit shy about speaking English; now writing is another matter. Who cares if I make some mistakes, as long as others understand what I try to say?

"I'm trying to learn some Deutsch, myself."
Das freut mich. Schreib doch mal etwas auf Deutsch.

DD

posted November 09, 2007 03:46 PM            

Sag...no problem. Happy to play!

Sag and DD...let me know what you find/what you think is accurate or not.

posted November 10, 2007 12:21 PM            

This is the Magi's interp for that aspect:

"VENUS OPPOSITION YOUR CHIRON
IMPOSSIBLE DREAM CLASH. In most cases, it is best to avoid this person. This may be hard to do because this clash is often a sign of very strong and unrelenting attraction such that you cannot get your mind off this person. But for one reason or another, it is rare for two people with this clash to get married. But it can happen, especially if either person was born with a square or opposition to Chiron. There are much worse clashes than this one because this clash is not actively negative, whereas all Saturn Clashes are. With Saturn Clashes, breakups are usually highly acrimonious. Whereas with this clash, if a love relationship fails, the two persons would probably be sad as opposed to being bitter and would most likely remain on friendly terms."

Be forewarned...they can be a little dramatic. I don't have this w/ any of my past relationships that I know of, so I can't add personal input.