posted December 02, 2007 09:33 AM              

i have written nothing but the truth and i m not going to apologise for the truth of what is christian history, so pious christians or people with weak hearts would be better off not reading this thread.
my research into Lilith has come at a time when transiting pluto is heating up my own natal lilith
the vast material and qoutes available about Lilith come from Hebrew, Jewish sources and Old Testament.
as below

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Lilith’s myth is widely recognized as Adam’s first wife, when they were created equally as described in Genesis 1:26

" And God said: ’Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth’."

Although, I find it interesting to note that both Adam and Eve didn’t make their official appearance until Genesis chapter two; so the passage may actually refer to Lilith and Samael as they are described as an androgynous pair. This is also outlined in Treatise on the Left Emanation. (see above Contents)

Lilith’s first official appearance as Adam’s vengeful ex-wife was in the Alphabet of Ben Sira (see Contents above), a likely parody of Jewish folk tales and beliefs. Lilith was created as an equal with Adam, and when Adam demanded to be on top during sex; Lilith uttered the Ineffable Name of God and flew away to the Red Sea. Adam complained to God, who sent three angels to bring her back to Eden. Lilith refused, citing that God had created her to cause sickness to infants; and made a pact with the angels that she would not harm any infant who had the names of the angels written over the crib. However, this pact still cost Lilith a hundred of her own demonic children a day. This story is the reason why Lilith earned the figurative title "World’s First Feminist" as she is the woman who sacrifices paradise, and many of her own children; than be forced to exist in a state of servitude.

While some assert that the Lilith myth was created in the Alphabet of Ben Sira (see Contents above); but I think it’s more possible that the Alphabet may have parodied the story of Istahar, a flood story about a woman who uttered the Ineffable Name of God to escape sexual domination from angels. Regardless of questionable origin, Lilith was real enough to appear in amulets and in the Zohar - a compendium of Jewish mysticism and knowledge of the spirit realms.

The Zohar contributes the most to Lilith’s mythology. The Zohar describes her as being the Serpent, being the wife of Sammael, being the wife of God himself also, and even originating from influences of angels. Lilith even appears in astrology, and associated with certain phases of the Moon, and the fixed star Algol

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posted December 02, 2007 09:37 AM              

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Lilith’s link to the garden of Eden is symbolized in Christian iconography that may have been inspired by the Zohar. Also, Lilith as Serpent is not limited by her functions in Eden, but also as other important figures such as Blind Dragon and Leviathan.

There are many passages that define Lilith as Serpent. The most obvious passage, says Lilith as the Serpent had an affair with Eve before she had intercourse with Adam. This is the most expressive passage relating to Lilith that contains a description of being both a Serpent and using temptation.

Llith and Sammael are also described as serpents of two qualities; the Slant Serpent and the Torturous Serpent.

Quoting Moses Cordovero, Pardes Rimmonim 186d

"And about this mystery it is written, And on that day the Lord with His sore and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the Slant Serpent, and Leviathan the Tortuous Serpent, and He will slay the Dragon that is in the sea (Isa. 27:1). Leviathan is the connection and the coupling between the two who have the likeness of serpents. Therefore it is doubled: the Slant Serpent corresponding to Samael, and the Tortuous Serpent corresponding to Lilith...."

Although this page only outlines Lilith’s Serpentine attributes, the reader is faced with the challenge of interpreting it about how it affects Lilith’s image and lesson to devotees. I personally interpret Lilith as governing the aspect of consciousness of the Sammael/Lilith androgyny. The intermediary, Blind Dragon, may be seen as symbolic of the Kundalini serpent energy that is connected to our unseen abilities and everyday consciousness. Lilith is Blind Dragon, and is both Serpent energy and consciousness to control that energy in the use of witchcraft and magick.

Sammael may be seen as the physical serpent, Lilith’s connection to the air can also be seen as breath used to form words to speak to Eve to convey the importance of partaking in Knowledge and understanding what existence is like when living without dignity with Adam. Most of all, Lilith is the guardian of the Tree of Knowledge, her Serpent self symbolic of the Tree of Knowledge energy, the Tree’s own Kundalini that flows up through it’s branches like a wellspring of undefiled wisdom.

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posted December 02, 2007 09:43 AM              

lets move to Tantra and Yoga :biggrin:

from what i have learnt in Tantra there are 3 major energy channels in our body, all metaphorically likened to serpents, ida and pingala
Sushumna Nadi passes through the hollow cylindrical cavity of the vertebral column and Ida is on the left side and Pingala on the right side of the spine.
Nadis are the astral channels through which Prana (vital energy) flows to different parts of the body. Ida, Pingala and Sushumna are the most important of the innumerable Nadis

Kundalini, the serpent power or mystic fire, is the primordial energy or Sakti that lies dormant or sleeping in the Muladhara Chakra, the centre of the body. It is called the serpentine or annular power on account of serpentine form. It is an electric fiery occult power, the great pristine force which underlies all organic and inorganic matter.

Kundalini is the cosmic power in individual bodies. It is not a material force like electricity, magnetism, centripetal or centrifugal force. It is a spiritual potential Sakti or cosmic power. In reality it has no form. The Sthula Buddhi and mind have to follow a particular form in the beginning stage. From this gross form, one can easily, understand the subtle formless Kundalini. Prana, Ahamkara, Buddhi, Indriyas, mind, five gross elements, nerves are all the products of Kundalini.

It is the coiled-up, sleeping Divine Sakti that lies dormant in all beings. You have seen in the Muladhara Chakra that there is SIVA Linga. The head of the Linga is the space where Sushumna channel is attached to the Kanda. This mysterious Kundalini lies face downwards at the mouth of Sushumna Nadi on the head of SIVA Linga. It has three and a half coils like a serpent. When it is awakened, it makes a hissing sound like that of a serpent beaten with a stick, and proceeds to the topmost crown chakra piercing all chakras and leading to christ consciousness.

posted December 02, 2007 09:51 AM              

OH GET IT ALDREADY , Lilith the snake on the tree of knowledge is the kundalini, the awakening of which leads to nirvana, and powers equal to that of God. the knowledge that we r GOD.
THAT is why Adam and Eve got kicked out, not for eating an apple, they made love, and awakened their Kundalini the Tantric way.

also makes sense why the Roman catholic church had to kill 9 million women in the middle ages to make sure their crappy Bible version of women being the gates to hell was ingrained in the heads of everyone.
Sure if people thought and KNEW, that sexual energy- Kundalini that lives inside us is that which creates and sustains the cosmos, who would need to go to Church for salvation

not only that there are multiple Father and Lord God in the Bible. the Crooks who wrote it to fool everyone left a lot of loopholes. when does Christ ever call the Lord God HIS Holy Father.

posted December 02, 2007 09:52 AM              

and what Sheep !

the sheep that dont try to question why the Vatican had to murder hundreds of thousands of Jews, Moslems AND Christians ( who were original followers of christ, not baptised by the church ) in the name of acquring the HOLY LAND.

why the Vatican murdered 9 MILLION women in the Middle ages .
by the way i have a PDF copy of " Malleus Malicforum ", the manual distributed by thge church for the purpose of witchhunts.

interesting reading, asking all children of the church to condemn as witches the following

healers
psychics
midwives
widows
herb gatherers
astrologers
immortal women
unmarried women --

basically back in the middle ages if u were neither married nor a prostitute and were making ur own money or were highly Spiritual not a Religious church goer , a woman EVE would be proud of ---
U were considered fit to be raped, torturted by clergy ( by raping u the priests are purging u of ur evil ) and then u would be tied to a stake for the whole town or village to see so they wouldn't dare to be like u and ofcourse roasted like hot turkey.

WHY ??
becoz it is hard work to destroy the pagan belief system that was in practice in Europe that equated a woman as a Goddess, an Equal to man.when u want to sell ur product to ur consumers u have to either buy or burn the competition ,like Bill Gates..

but ofcourse faithful sheep that the christians are it is easy to go to church and pray to a Lord God becoz these things happened so many centuries ago, becoz, it is not one of our friends, wives, sisters, family in danger from the Same church TODAY .or that those hundred thousands innocent butchered in the crusades had no right to live on our Holy Land. they had it coming.

that is not to be compared to what our noble christian missionaries did in India when they found original followers of Christ who were following the Real christianity long before any church even opened office in India.
too disgusting to type, google on " christian conversion tactics used in India "

if i have offeneded any pious , church goer, bible thumping Christian / Catholic, i am not going to apologise for yelling the bare truth out for everyone.

posted December 02, 2007 10:21 AM              

a reading of the above Biblical, Kabbalic, Hebrew info should suffice a thorough understanding of what Lilith means.
use basic psychology to apply the meaning of Lilith to the aspects it makes to your planets and others in synastry.

to calculate lilith go to astro.com and put h13, h21, h22 in the addl objects section.
in addition to highlighting lilith in the table.

as evident from the diagram there are true lilith, mean lilith and black moon lilith.
from all sites i have researched black moon lilith has most astrological correlation, but mean lilith also should not be overlooked.

astronomically perspective Lilith is the shadow side of the Moon, that is the shadow that is percieved by us only, since in reality there is only one moon.what is double is our perception.
in Tantra we accept that a woman has 2 forms

Durga - mother, birth, creative sexuality, the light side of feminine
Kaali - death, destruction , transformation,
the darkness.

they are accepted not as good or bad but as two faces of the same coin

similarly lilith is the opposite of the feminine moon .Moon is the mother aspect of woman, nurturing , caring etc.
Lilith stands for independence, sexual activity and dissociates herself from motherhood.
since we have learnt that the moon was a chunk of the earth that was broken off from it, the moon represents mother earth in our horoscope, female, nourishing instinctive complex, shared among the earth and the moon.
and then this empty point that casts a shadow on the earth, making a dark night sky even more so.

black moon represents something from the female elemental force that's hidden in the shadow, that we repressed and that we are missing now in order to experience our complete, true self.it represents that missing chunk of our Self that has the key to our divinity. as long as we stay away from our shadows we have only one side of the coin. when we integrate the darkest parts of out psyche we r complete.
that darkness alone leads us to light. like in Eden, Adam and Eve KNEW thru Lilith what they really were. until then they were sexless fools.
Dark Moon is representative of the darker side of our nature, the negative side. It is the hidden depths that we know exist yet we prefer not to acknowledge. It is subtle on the surface, yet profound beneath. It is the foundations of our personality and the shocking truth that we often deny and project onto others instead. The refusal to see what is really within ourselves. The subtle refusal to see what part we may have played in some unpleasant drama of our lives, how we ourselves have manifested our fears. It is the kind of thing that we intrinsically know we have to deal with, confront the darker side in order to progress unhindered, yet most often we try to ignore. It is the deeper truth that we are forever in search of within ourselves. Probably the best use we can make of the dark moon is to explore our hidden depths, realise that we all have that darker side and go within to resolve that which ultimately hinders us.

The Dark Moon is representative of the negative traits of guilt, shame, hatred, envy, and vengefulness, often brought about by personal wounds and hurts. The true dark side of things we try to hide.

There is another side of the Dark Moon astrologically. Carl G Jung, the famous psychoanalyst described something that he called the "anima". The anima is a man's image of the ideal woman and also the feminine side of his personality. For a woman it is the image of the ideal man and the masculine side of her personality. So the dark moon in a birthchart will represent these ideals too.

It is also representative of the enchantress or the seducer, one who lures another by use of sexuality or devious means. The kind who tempts another by implying that the grass is greener on the other side, that they can "rescue" someone, but it is in reality for their own selfish gain.

The Dark Moon, Lilith, also has associations with motherhood, like her counterpart the Moon. With Lilith however, the instinctive nurturing is replaced by a strong protection of her offspring to the point that she would kill if necessary any that threatened them or caused them harm. She is also reactive against the ties involved with motherhood and the emptiness that mothers sometimes feel by isolation and the perceived lack of individuality that accompanies it.

posted December 02, 2007 10:28 AM              

there are archetypal shadows for which we don’t currently have a vocabulary. Those offered by Lilith, for example, are what come to mind. As a matter of fact, everything about Lilith is made into shadow, leaving people with strong Lilith energy often terrified to again receive the brutal punishment they’ve gotten in the past from embodying the natural energy of this dark goddess.

What’s happened in western history is that ull have forgotten how to face the dark. Which means that u have come to attempt to deny our true natures. We are light and dark. Each of us covers the whole range of possibilities. If this idea frightens you, take a moment to find out what part of you is conditioned to be afraid. we all have Lilith in us and she wants to find expression, and that there are parts of us that tell us that we're bad for having this part.

Recently , with tr. pluto on my natal lilith I understood that going deeply into Lilith requires me to give up my idea of what love is. I’ve had to confront my assumptions of what it means to support, honor and love others. Specifically, on one level, there are times when not helping someone is helping them more than they know. This is pretty obvious, but on another level entirely, one from which the journey of life is seen as the point of it (and not the pursuit or attainment of happiness, pleasure, ease or goodness), that I try to help you is absurd. No one but we can help ourselves - our journey is in your hands and there’s nothing in reality that anyone, family, society can do that actually helps, even if it looks like they do.

This is the level from which we can come to know Lilith. If we assume that destruction is always negative, we miss the point of what she would teach us. Who’s to say what’s good and what’s bad? Is there any such thing? Or is there just creation and destruction and the aftermath of each that forms the bulk of our lives?

posted December 02, 2007 02:43 PM              

Venus tHanks for this - personally i have been having my mind confused by Lilith..sometime ago FriendSpirit helped on this and cleared some more of mu doubts about this"evil" asteroid

posted December 03, 2007 10:11 AM              

Still I`m not sure how LIlith-aspects play out in synastry.
Okay, they seem to lead you into your own darkness, deeply into your soul, where the more primal urges are - am I right so far?
But how would it be felt in synastry?
Would there be attraction or rejection?
And who would feel what?
Is the Lilith-person the one who is confronted with this deep layer of their souls, or the planet`s person?

DD

posted December 03, 2007 11:21 AM              

Lilith was created equal to ADAM, from GOD like Adam , but EVE came from a rib.
what does that imply ?
she refuses to be subordinate to him and is portrayed as an anti- heroine for it, whereas EVE , a sexless fool, i personally find nothing womanly about her is the ideal woman!!!

what psychological game is the church playing here ?
here is what the respected church leaders think of women
--------------------------------

St. Clement of Alexandria

"Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman."

St. Thomas Aquinas suggested that God had made a mistake in creating woman:

Lutherans at Wittenberg debated whether women were really human beings at all. Orthodox Christians held women responsible for all sin. As the Bible's Apocrypha states,

"Of woman came the beginning of sin/ And thanks to her, we all must die."

WOW, i suggest u guys take a printout and put it on the mirror to understand what has been done to your psychology.

but if u want to know why the church had to kill 9 million women to sell their brand of Father Faith, at that time everywhere in Europe pagan Goddess beliefs were in practice. look at what Bill Gates does, if u r his competitor he either buys u or bullies u.

the whole idea behind the Bible - Lilith story and the witchhunts was precisely that.

Lilith , a woman conscious of her Equality to Adam and GOD was painted as an anti- heroine and the sexless fool EVE was the good girl ?

in Tantra a essence of womanhood is sexuality, power of sexuality and awareness of that power is what makes a woman.
even men have Female Kundalini in them.
tantra tells us we r all gods in the making, we all have the power to manifest what we want, money or children, all come from female energy., the thoughts , our mind that manifest and guide that energy is MALE.

posted December 03, 2007 11:36 AM              

for me, i know i m god, a part of god, created in his image, to do his work, not as a punishment, but to be a part of his bigger
plan.like the coin has 2 faces, so do i.
Lilith in the horoscope has worked exactly for me, like the bible story.
it opposes my kaali, sun, moon and conj isis.

i m more in touch with my darkness and POWER than anyone i know.THAT is LILITH.
in synastry, depending on natal aspects of others it can be a happy story , as in resolution of psychological issues thru love and mutual empowerment.
but people who are still operating with the GOOD/EVIL church mentality i doubt will find it pleasant . there will be intense attraction yes, but becoz it also connects ur darkness and suppressed power with the partner it can lead to obsessions, if u dont accept the power as ur own but project it on the person.
a man who his pluto or sun or moon conj his girls Lilith might receive an electric shock if he is not a balanced person, or a churchgoer
she might probably even invite the w*ore projection from him. i know its sad but that is what the church intended all along.

however a mature man with guts might enjoy the electricity and use it to destroy what is no longer needed in his nature or behaviour, be a beter person, more aware of his own personal power.

posted December 03, 2007 03:09 PM              

YOU are so right!!!

That was one of the main reasons that I always thought that sth was very wrong there..when i was a child and went to Church by my Mom´s hand..

Now i dont consider Catholic - i dont see me as being a Evil Human Being just y being a Woman - thats a complete non sense - im very proud to be a Woman and of my "Power" as being able to CREATE LIFE and CARRY LIFE - things that MEN cant.
So i completelly agree with you - there was a huge SICK GAME being plent in peoples Minds since the POPE whatver ordered to "reestructure the Bible" - i saw Da Vinci´s Code - and even if now i dont know exactly what to believe from that - the book left me thinking a lot about that.

im more in tune with your religion and also Budist one - they are more open and higher in terms of Minds than the Catholics Priests.

The only one i admired and still...is POpe Saint Jonh Paul the 2nd - that was a beautiful Soul and its a pitty that he is gone and left the German there...

Bac to Lilith...for Good Sake of us..me and JOnnhy share our filophofical views on the World and ourselves.
Yup - My Lilith conj his Moon and his conj my IC - do you want more electricity than this?? Hmmm maybe this is why we pass through that "moments" i told you in the other thread..makes sense indeed!

posted December 03, 2007 10:54 PM            

Your mention of 'electricity' made me want to post about the synastry with my bf. My BML is conjunct his Uranus, 1* orb, in his 9th, my 2nd. Venus is conjunct this very aspect right now! Any thoughts?

We hit a rough patch and he and I reconnected in the last week. Transit Venus is conjunct my BML 27 Lib today, I felt very avoidant re love today, tho I feel it lifting now somewhat.

Look forward to your thoughts...

M31

posted December 05, 2007 04:42 PM              

Sometimes yes, when im thinking of him but its not always you know - it seems its in some moments when you can almost BE with him but not psysically.

posted December 06, 2007 08:51 AM              

Try what??Is that some type of tantric Sex?

posted June 04, 2011 10:55 AM            

granted absolute power corrupts any organization in general....the church was corrupt at points in history where there was not a power check in place within it and without it.....but don't read about

the greek orthodox church comitting atrocities or raping children and that was the first original church...so the first Christians have their hands free of persecution...it was the pope...with his total power over a body of people that did these things as an individual who wa smost likely an atheist/political seat holder type...

but back to the point...in history many astrologers....witches....etc...diviners would use their spiritual knowledge to control other people...and since alot of these people were swindlers they actually made alot of enemies before there even was a church.....

Now that being said i totaly sympathize with both sides

and this post about lilith rcoks so i'm book marking it...

posted June 04, 2011 10:57 AM            

"I must consecrate with your wife in order for the stars to give you your success in fate?"

then doing it and nothing happening?

posted October 02, 2014 04:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by venusdeindia:
forget how Lilith works in synastry for once,
how does it work on our psychology is more imp.
there is a reason why i posted the stuff from Bible, and other sources.
for years now there have been books exposing the Bible fraud, how the church has manipulated mass psychology to be the monoplist to salvation.

Lilith was created equal to ADAM, from GOD like Adam , but EVE came from a rib.
what does that imply ?
she refuses to be subordinate to him and is portrayed as an anti- heroine for it, whereas EVE , a sexless fool, i personally find nothing womanly about her is the ideal woman!!!

what psychological game is the church playing here ?
here is what the respected church leaders think of women

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This ^^^^^^! What an amazing thread! I read it a few months ago and it still keeps popping up in my mind. I get so mad thinking about how "the Church" has treated women. We tend to forget about this and need to be reminded of the Truth. Why is there no Goddess in Christianity? There's a Father and a Son but no Mother??? I'm so glad Goddess Kundalini enlightened me to all their BS! This is not an attack on Jesus, whose only message was love, only the foul people who used his name and twisted his words to control us. And STILL want to control us.