posted September 09, 2008 09:56 AM              

It`s not perfect, it`s not complete, it`s just a rough draft of what I`m thinking and what I think is important in synastry (donīt even bother to try to disagree with my use of rulers in synastry; it will be to no avail, I KNOW they work )

1. Romance:

this implies there is romantic or sexual attraction, without so much "soulstuff" happening. We all know we can feel heavily drawn to someone, who is not our soulmate.

Aspects between:
Sun, Venus, Mars, ASC / DSC, ruler of 1st house, 5th house and 7th house

- here the person who is the DSC, ruler of 7th house or ruler of 5th house or even Venus will be the attracted one, who is drawn to the other one`s identity

(we could argue or discuss about Venus and Mars here: do we differentiate between man and woman and think Mars signifies the woman`s ideal man, or is Venus valid for both sexes? I don`t have a good answer to that one. But I know the DC, ruler of 7 and ruler of 5 work the way, that the person contributing those points / planets will be the attracted one).

2. Soulmates

here we have those connections that reach really deep into the soul, which is the reason I used the waterhouses for this. I also used Neptune and Pluto, even though they are outer planets, but they are natural rulers of 12th and 8th house AND Neptune is the higher octave of romantic Venus and Pluto is the higher octave of passionate Mars - such a beautiful symmetry.

aspects between:
Moon, Neptune, Pluto, IC, ruler of IC, ruler of 8th and 12th house

- I think if you have many aspects between those planets and points, this is a very strong hint towards you being soulmates of some kind (I am not talking of twinsouls though). But without any of the connections mentioned under ROMANCE, you will probably not become romantically involved.

3. Karma
Those are the connections that have something to do with your "lessons" and experiences you will make that lead you to growth.

aspects between Saturn, Vertex, NN, Vertex, ruler of NN and SN, ruler of Vertex and Antivertex

- I am using the rulers of Vertex and NN here, because they are an axis just like ASC - DSC or IC-MC.

I know I left some out like Mercury, Jupiter and Uranus, MC, 2nd, 6th, 3rd and 11th and 9th house.

Well, those will probably relate more to the practical or intellectual side of a relationship, which is definitely important.

Well, pulling Saturn our of the karmic column, we could make something like:

social / practical:
aspects between Mercury, Saturn, MC, ruler of 2nd, 6th and 10th house (maybe also Venus here, because she is natural ruler of 2nd house).

intellectual:
aspects between Mercury, Jupiter, Uranus, ruler of 3rd, 9th and 11th house.

But put those into mental bracket, as I have not thought this through.

Now if you list the conjunctions and oppositions of these categories, you will see at a first glance where the emphasis lies. You can even see the difference for each person here.

posted September 09, 2008 10:41 AM              

a) karmic romance

Those would be the interconnection between the Romanceplanets / points and the karmicsignificators,

for example:

Venus-Vertex
ASC - Saturn
Mars - NN and so on

those probably show where you have unfinished Karma which will be worked through in the context of Romance (which can imply a romantic relationship or the painful experience of rejection; maybe it also signifies if you have already had a romantic relationship in a past life, especially if the SN is being triggered).

karmic soulmates
a connection between soulmates and karma

example:
IC - Vertex
Moon - Saturn
Neptune - NN

those will be very deep experiences, that will change a part of your soul or at least shake it up, but not necessarily in a romantic relationship. Maybe just as friends or even family relatives (especially if the IC is triggered).

Also, in this case I`d definitely look if these aspects are connected to romance planets, too, especially if you have something like Saturn opposite Neptune, which will be pretty generational, unless it is tied to angles or personal planets.

c) romantic soulmates

interconnection between romance and soulmates

I think most Twinsouls will fall into that category, as it is loving and deep (in the best case scenario).
Romantic attraction coupled with a sense of belonging and ties to each other`s soul. Need I say more?

As I said, it is just a rough draft, and I know you can look at it from different angles, too.

But what I think is important is that you compare the triggered planets in your chart (Moon, IC, Venus, DSC, whatever)

to the planets and points that relate most closely to the other person`s identity:

Sun, Moon, (Venus, Mars), ASC, ruler of ASC, IC, ruler of IC, ruler of 5th (maybe)

Do that for each person and you will get a clearer picture of what is happening inside them.

However, even if everything is peachy here, it`s still only a potential, which needs to be triggered by progressed synastry and of course you msut not forget about the natals, either. ACtually you should start there, see what your astrological type is, and if the other person fits it natally (BEFORE you do the synastry):

Your astrological type:
DSC - sign
planets in 7
ruler of 7 in sign and house
conjunctions to ruler of 7
sign at the cusp of 5th house
planets in 5th house
ruler of 5th house in sign and house
conjunctions to ruler of 5th hosue

And for the BRAVE ones:

sign on the cusp of the 8th house
planets in 8th house
ruler of 8th house in house and sign
conjunctions to ruler of 8th house

(but remember, 8th house is so deeply passioante that some people choose to deny it, just as they suppress their 4th house sometimes).

To see if the other one fits your astrological type, look at HIS natal:

ASC sign
planets in 1st house
ruler of ASC in sign and house
conjunctions to ruler of ASC

IC sign
planets in 4th house
ruler of 4th house in sign and house
conjunctions to ruler of 4th house

And this will surprise you, but you could also risk a glance at the 2nd house (as it is the physical manifestation of the body, and adds some nuances to your appearance.)
So cusp of 2nd house
ruler of 2nd house in house and sign
conjunction to ruler of 2nd house
planets in 2nd house

For planets there are many theories floating around. One sais to look at Sun and Mars to see what you are attracted to (if you are a woman) and if you`re a man, look at your Moon and Venus to see what is attractive to you.
And look at Moon and Venus of a woman for her identity, and at Sun and Mars for a man`s identity.

Another theory sais that Venus ALWAYS shows what one is attracted to, no matter if you are a man or woman.
I can`t decide, Venus rules my 5th house, so she has a say in what I am attracted to anyway.

But what is pretty clear is that Sun and Moon are part of the identity of BOTH sexes.
And Venus probably is part of the identity of a woman, while Mars is part of the male identity, too.

posted September 09, 2008 11:51 AM              

I checked the synastry of Antonio Banderas and Melanie Griffith according to that classification, only looking for conjunctions and oppositions within 5° at most.

Relevant aspects are (his planets first):

Sun conjunct Sun
Sun conjunct ruler 5
Sun opposite Moon
Sun conjunct ruler 4
Venus conjunct Mars
Venus conjunct ruler 7
Venus conjunct ruler 7 (I used old and new)
Venus conjunt Pluto
Venus conjunct ruler 12
Venus conjunct ruler Antivertex
Venus conjunct ruler NN
venus conjunct ruler NN
Mars opposite Saturn
DC conjunct Mars
DC conjunct ruler 5
DC conjunct ruler 12
DC conjunct ruler Antivertex
DC conjunct ruler NN
ruler 7 conjunct IC
Pluto conjunct mars
Pluto conjunct ruler 7
Pluto conjunct ruler 12
Pluto conjunct ruler Antivertex
Pluto conjunct ruler NN
ruler 4 conjunct IC
ruler 8 conjunct Mars
ruler 8 conjunct ruler 7
ruler 8 conjunct Pluto
ruler 8 conjunct ruler 12
ruler 8 conjunct ruler Antivertex
ruler 8 conjunct ruler NN
ruler 12 conjunct sun
ruler 12 conjunct ruler 5
ruler 12 conjunct ruler 4
Vertex conjunct Venus
Vertex conjunctg ruler 1
Vertex conjunct ruler 5
Vertex conjunct ruler Vertex
Vertex conjunct ruler SN
ruler NN conjunct IC

Now I counted the "pure" aspects: that means those aspects where his romance planets activate her romance planets and so on.

pure Romance aspects: 7
pure karmic aspects: 2
pure Soulmate aspects: 5

Then I counted how many times his romance planets were triggered and how many times hers.

romance: 19: 16
karmic: 6: 12
soulmate: 15: 12

It seems that there is a lot of romantic attraction going on (of course we knew that before .

But there are also many soulmate-aspects. So maybe they ARE twinsouls.

posted September 09, 2008 04:24 PM              

Everytime i enter the LL FOrum i found a new thread iniciated by you and itīs not any thread - they are ALL fascinating!

let me be your 1st guinnypig :within 5 orb

1.Romance
Sun, Venus, Mars, ASC / DSC, ruler of 1st house, 5th house and 7th house

His

Sun cj my AC 0
Venus cj my sun ruler
Solstice Venus cj my DSC 1
Solstice Mars cj my IC 3
Mars cj my ruler5th
ruler of 5th cj ruler 5th/rulerIC
solstice ruler 5th opose my sun 2
solstice ruler 7H opose my Sun 1

My

Mars opose his ruler1St
ruler5Th cj his rulerMC
solstice sun opose his rulerDC 1
solstice mars opose his 5thcusp
solstice ruler of 5H is opose his DC 3

SOULMATES
Moon, Neptune, Pluto, IC, ruler of IC, ruler of 8th and 12th house

his ruler of 12th is Merc which is conj his own IC - so it might act as co-ruler of his IC too?

His Merc is conj my AC (why do you only consider the IC regarding SM,DD?)

His Neptune is cj my IC Solstice
his Pluto is cj my DC solstice
his ruler 8Th cj my ruler 5th (not import)

My Pluto is cj his DC ruler and 5H ruler
My Ruler IC cj his ruler 5H
mY Ruler12H cj his sun and sun ruler (not import)

KARMA
sATURN/VX/NN/rulerNN/RulerSN/RULERvx/RulerAnti-Vx

his VX opose my NN
His NN Solstice cj my own NN 0
his ruler AntiVX is cj my AntiVX (cj my VX)

My Saturn cj his ruler SN (but 7orb)
My saturn kikunks his Moon(ruler of his NN) - included this one cause itīs (0)and itīs considered a very karmic aspect I think..?
My NN solstice cj his NN
My VX opose his ruler OF aNTI-VX
My NN cj his solstice IC
My ruler SN cj his DC (not import)

a)Karmic SM

does Draco count?my AC cj his D.Saturn 0

b) His IC opose my VX 0
his Saturn kikunk my Moon
My Neptune cj his SN

c)

My D.Sun cj his D.Venus
My D.Venus (ruler of AC and of D.IC)opose hsi Mars
my D.IC cj his IC
hIS D.Mars(ruler of his D.AC) cj my Venus
his D.AC cj my VX (karmic)

well i think i have ,mixed and confused it all up in a way that i cannot find any special meaning to it!!

posted September 09, 2008 04:29 PM              

I compared my and my crushe`s chart this way, and those are our conjunctions and oppositions: (his planets first)

Sun conjunct Sun
Sun conjunct ruler 7
Sun conjunct ruler SN
Mars opposite ruler 1
Mars oposite ruler NN
Venus conjunct Antivertex
ruler 1 conjunct ruler 7
ruler 1 conjunct ruler SN
ruler 1 opposite ruler 1
ruler 7 conjunct Mars
ruler 7 conjunct ASC
ruler 7 conjunct Neptune
ruler 7 conjunct ruler 4
ruler 7 conjunct ruler 12
ruler 7 conjunct NN
ruler 5 conjunct Sun
ruler 5 conjunct ruler 7
ruler 5 conjunct ruler SN
Moon conjunct Sun
MOon conjunct ruler 7
Moon conjunct ruler SN
Neptune conjunct ruler 7
Neptune conjunct ruler SN
ruler 4 conjunct Mars
ruler 4 conjunct ASC
ruler 4 conjunct Neptune
ruler 4 conjunct ruler 12
ruler 4 conjunct NN
ruler 8 opposite ruler 1
ruler 8 opposite ruler NN
ruler Vertex conjunct Mars
ruler vertex conjunct ASC
ruler Vertex conjunct Neptune
ruler Vertex conjunct ruler 4
ruler Vertex conjunct ruler 12
ruler Vertex conjunct NN
ruler Antivertex conjunct ruler 7
ruler Antivertex conjuncct ruler SN
ruler Antivertex opposite ruler 1
ruler Antivertex opposite ruler NN
ruler NN conjunct Mars
ruler NN conjunct ASC
ruler NN conjunct NEptune
ruler NN conjunct ruler 4
ruler NN conjunct ruler 122
ruler NN conjunct NN
ruler SN conjunct ruler 7
ruler SN conjunct ruler SN
ruler SN opposite ruler 1
ruler SN opposite ruler NN

Phew, first of all, there seem to be quite something going on, given by the amount of connections.

karmic: 6
Romance: 9
Soulmate: 3

So pure Soulmate-connections are few:
ruler 4 conjunct Neptune
ruler 4 conjunct ruler 4
ruler 4 conjunct ruler 12

There seems to be more emphasis on some kind of romantic attraction and karmic lessons.

If I look at his and my chart:

karmic: 20: 17
Romance: 19: 23
Soulmate: 13: 12

So, I am definitely mostly romantically attracted, while there is balance between karmic and romance for him. Interesting.

NOw I had also a look, which connections would tell something about the possible attraction to each other.

my attraction to him (my planets first):

ruler 7 conjunct Sun
ruler 7 conjunct ruler 1
ruler 7 conjunct ruler 5
ruler 7 conjunct Moon

- it seems I do see him as relationship-material, as my 7th ruler is triggered so strongly.

his attraction to me (ha, I wish )

ruler 7 conjunct Mars
ruler 7 conjunct ASC
ruler 7 conjunct ruler 4
ruler 5 conjunct Sun
Moon conjunct Sun
ruler 8 opposite ruler 1

- hmm, I do like that interchange between 7th and 1st house.

Looking at planets in houses would complete that picture I guess:

my Moon, my chartruler in his 12th house
my Mars, ASC, IC-ruler in his 8th house
my Saturn in his 5th house
my Pluto in his 7th house

his Sun, Moon, chartruler, 5th house ruler, IC-ruler in my 1st house
- I definitely identify a LOT with him I guess.

posted September 09, 2008 04:53 PM              

and my Pluto is solstice conjunct his DSC, which ties into my Pluto being in his 7th house I guess.

posted September 09, 2008 05:04 PM            

Your astrological type:
DSC - sign: Sagittarius
planets in 7: Saturn, Uranus, Neptune
ruler of 7 in sign and house: Jupiter in Aries 11th house
conjunctions to ruler of 7: none
sign at the cusp of 5th house: Libra
planets in 5th house: Moon, Pluto
ruler of 5th house in sign and house: Venus in Pisces 10th house
conjunctions to ruler of 5th hosue: NN
sign on the cusp of the 8th house: Capricorn
planets in 8th house: none
ruler of 8th house in house and sign: Saturn in Sag 7th house
conjunctions to ruler of 8th house: Uranus

To see if the other one fits your astrological type, look at HIS natal:

ASC sign: Cancer
planets in 1st house: none
ruler of ASC in sign and house: Moon in Leo in 4th
conjunctions to ruler of ASC: none

IC sign: Leo
planets in 4th house: Moon
ruler of 4th house in sign and house: Sun in Pisces in 11th
conjunctions to ruler of 4th house: Jupiter (very loose conjunction)

So cusp of 2nd house: Cancer
ruler of 2nd house in house and sign: Moon in Leo in 4th
conjunction to ruler of 2nd house: None
planets in 2nd house: None

REVERSE:

His astrological type:
DSC - sign: Capricorn
planets in 7: Neptune
ruler of 7 in sign and house: Saturn in Sagittarius in 6th
conjunctions to ruler of 7: Uranus
sign at the cusp of 5th house: Virgo
planets in 5th house: Pluto
ruler of 5th house in sign and house: Mercury in Aquarius in 10th house
conjunctions to ruler of 5th hosue: none

My Natal:
ASC sign: Gemini
planets in 1st house: none
ruler of ASC in sign and house: Mercury in Aquarius in 9th
conjunctions to ruler of ASC: Sun

IC sign: Virgo
planets in 4th house: none
ruler of 4th house in sign and house: Mercury in Aquarius in 9th
conjunctions to ruler of 4th house: Sun

posted September 09, 2008 05:13 PM            

Fantastic DD!!! We all come here to work out the big WHY. Your streamlining helps clarify so much mystery in synastry. Thank you!!

How do I find the ruler of the IC, please?

posted September 09, 2008 06:17 PM            

I think you have to also take into account planets closely conjuncting angles as well. If you have a planet right on top of your IC then it's going to affect it. I think that would then mean that it was your co-ruler.

posted September 09, 2008 06:39 PM            

You wrote about 2nd house as "physical manifestation of the body.it adds some nuances to your appearance"

posted September 09, 2008 08:48 PM            

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

posted September 10, 2008 05:28 AM            

you really are such a star... and this thread is just so informative, i'm going to pitch my tent

Are you looking at draco/draco/natal when you do this or is it purely natal and solstice please?

posted September 10, 2008 05:41 AM              

the co-ruler of IC would be the planet that rules the sign, that is intercepted in 4th house (if there is one).

Ex.:
IC in Aries
cusp of 5th house in Gemini

so Taurus would be intercepted in 4th house, and the ruler of Taurus, Venus, would be co-ruler.

posted September 10, 2008 05:47 AM              

1st house and 2nd house both fall into the physical, instinctive body-quadrant.

the cardinal houses show what is potentially there, they lay the ground, and the fix houses are the places where it becomes manifest, visible.

I can explain it better with the emotional quadrant.

house 4 shows what is our emotional being, how you feel.
house 5 shows the expression of the feelings.

But of course house 5 can only express what is already there.
Let`s say you have Jupiter in 5th house, but Saturn in 4th house.

Saturn in 4 means feelings are very serious, maybe even a tad deptressive.
Now, Jupiter in 5 expresses those feelings in a grand way, but it can only express what is already there in the 4th house.

posted September 10, 2008 05:50 AM              

yes, that was actually the reason I made that system, to see, what is the real ground of a connection, and I agree highly Saturnian relationships will be more about karma and debt as about true love or wild romantic attraction.
And yet it can be almost impossible to let those people go.

posted September 10, 2008 05:51 AM              

for a start I only looked at the natals (will have to add the solstie points).

posted September 10, 2008 08:23 AM            

does anyone know what mars conjunct anothers South Node would mean pls? It is my mars and mars is also my 1st H ruler. My vertex sextiles his SN and his vertex sextiles my NN lol

so, if my solstice pluto is opposing his natal pluto and his solstice pluto is also opposing my natal pluto BOTH EXACT then what would it mean if my 8th H ruler is pluto and his 1st H ruler/ASC is pluto. Sounds quite spicey to me... must mean huge sexual attraction, no?

posted September 10, 2008 09:25 AM              

But what to do with Juno?
This is a tricky asteroid, I can tell you. Maybe she is her own category?
Or she is being coloured by what she is aspecting? Like Juno-Venus would be romance and Juno - Neptune would be soulmatey-like?

posted September 10, 2008 09:43 AM              

as far i can remember you and your SO are a couple with lotīs of Juno involvement - i even have a suspicious that you might very well have a "juno s~uper sex linkage"

Lara,
im not an expert but it seems to me it would make a lot of atraction beetween you both ( in double )

DD,

Yes,since youīve 1st talked about the SOLSTCE POINTS that i have been absolutely a follower about these type of conjunctions - lots of them give insight to what itīs hidden - so i included them here.

Also,JUNO seems an important asteroid to look at,would you include it in what type of conection?

DRACO TO DRACO

ROMANCE

His Venus conj my Sun
His Sun trine my Moon
His Venus trine my Juno (interests me cause his N.Juno trine my N.Venus)
His Mars opose my Moon
His DC conj my IC
His ruler of 1H opose my ruler of AC

SOULMATES

His Neptune cj my ruler 8H
His solstice neptune opose my IC
His Pluto cj my AC
His Solstice Pluto cj my Sun
His IC cj my 12Hruler
His 8Hruler opose my ACruler
His 8Hruler cj my AC
His 12Hruler cj my ruler5H

mY mOON OPOse his 8Hruler
My Pluto cj his 12Hruler
M y ICsolstice ch his 12thCusp
My rulerIC kikunks his rulerIC - ?
My ruler12th cj his IC

KARMA

His Saturn cj my AC
His VX opose my rulerAC/rulerAntiVx
His rulerNN opose my rulerAC/rulerAntiVX
HSi ruler SN cj my Sun

my saturn(and ruler of my VX) cj his rulerAntiVX
My Pluto cj his rulerAntiVX
My rulerAntiVX opose his rulerNN

So,would you include Isis/Osiris?

And what about the POM?