posted November 02, 2008 03:02 AM         

I remember you had written something about it recently, Glaucus. Do you mind leaving the thread details, if you are able, please.

Has anyone any thoughts on Eris?

Thank you

posted November 02, 2008 04:52 AM         

Sun-Eris Bilevel
(Sun trine/contraparallel Eris)

Based on reading Zane Stein's article and his keywords as well as Roy
MacKinnon's keywords and the charts that I have looked at, I believe
that Eris has to do with stirring stuff up, controversy, ideology,
civil/equal rights matters, standing up for self/others, advocacy,
bigotry, racism, minorities, race relations, diversity, .....all
those things are connected to each other too.

I don't believe that Eris is just about discord and controversy. I
think that there is more to it. That's like saying Pluto is just
about the underworld because Pluto/Hades is the God of the
underworld. Juan Revilla made good points that we can't just rely on
the name of the object for its astrological meaning. Uranus
personality traits fit more with Prometheus than the god, Uranus even
though Uranus/Ouranos was the sky god. Neptune personality traits fit
more with Dionysus/Bacchus even though Neptune/Poseidon was the sea god. I
looked at some asteroid stuff in regards to that. Juan Revilla said
that it's important to consider the orbital symbolism of the objects.
Philip Sedgwick takes into account the nodes and perihelion/aphelion
of the object.

Astronomical-oriented astrologers including Philip Sedgwick, Juan
Revilla, Zane Stein don't rely on the name of objects to derive
meaning from it.

Some of them suggested names to the astronomers that were accepted
for some centaurs after studying their orbits, physical properties.
Nessus was the first. http://www.zanestein.com/page4_2.htm

this is what Philip Sedgwick said
Star Blogs ~ The Galactic Times
Planet With No Name (Yet) ~ 02 Feb 2008

"So if you were Neil Young traversing the desert night sky on a
planet with no name, how could you derive any meaning for it? One,
consider its nature, uniqueness and physical profile. Two, assign
interpretive delineations by pondering the sign and degree of
critical orbital elements, specifically the node and closest point
the body makes to the Sun."

the closest point of the object makes to the sun is called the
Perihelion.

Here is some stuff by Juan Revilla who believes in the orbital
symbolism should be used to determine an object's astrological
meaning and not the name.

ORBITAL SYMBOLISM IN ASTROLOGY http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/essays/paradigm.html

Zane Stein even added Persephone/Proserpina symbolism in his Eris
keywords. Michael Brown wanted to name Eris "Persephone", and he even
said that it was like Persephone. He said that half of the time, Eris
orbits away from Pluto. But the names, "Persephone" and "Proserpina"
were given to asteroids. Obviously, astronomers gave mythological
names too readily. Michael Brown did give the name Eris after all the
discord among the astronomers. Methinks..that there could be
astrologers in discord. Many astrologers don't agree on many things
in Astrology like orbs are hotly debated.

I was thinking how Ceres and Pluto are made equals in Astronomy
because of the discovery of Eris, and how it can seem similar to how
Pluto/Hades and Ceres/Demeter shared equal amount of time with
Proserpina/Persephone.
Pluto got demoted to minor planet and assigned a minor planet number.
Ceres got promoted to dwarf planet. Therefore, Pluto and Ceres are
equals in astronomy. Pluto got the same treatment as Ceres. Ceres was
classed as a planet but got it's planetary status stripped after the
realization that it is one of many objects in the asteroid belt
between Mars and Jupiter. Now Pluto's planetary status is stripped
after the realization that it is one of many objects in the Kuiper
Belt. After they found Eris, the need to make a definition of what
planet had to be made. Astronomers even hypothesize there could be a
dozen Plutos out there and even some Mars-sized objects. Any
ways...Ceres and Pluto were made equals because of Eris, and so
that's one of the reasons that I believe Eris has to do with equal
rights, civil rights issues.. I am seeing Eris in civil rights, equal
rights events....especially involving Black civil rights issues. Eris
can be related to minority rights issues. Eris' Perihelion is in
Libra seems to reflect the equality, fairness, getting along that
Eris seems to call for. Eris' Aphelion in Aries seems to reflect the
war, conflict, aggression, trouble that Eris is known for causing.
Eris' North Node in Taurus seems to reflect the solidarity. It can
also be the stubbornness, materialism that often causes problems in
society and creates division between people. Eris' South Node in
Scorpio seems to reflect the transformation, rebirth, but also
revenge, resentment that often connection to division of humanity and
linked to racism.

When I think of Eris, I think of taking sides, forced to decide
between two things, torn between two factions, dilemmas, "If you are
not with me, you are against me", betrayal, resentment that happens
after choosing a side, creating a bridge, narrowing the gap

Eris orbits beyond Saturn, and so it seems like it can relate to the
metaphysical. It is a kuiper belt object like Pluto, and so it can
seem to relate to intensity, transformation, and rebirth. Eris' orbit
is more unusual than Pluto for its not only it's more elliptical, but
it is tilted 44.187 degrees relative to the plane of the solar
system. Pluto's orbit is only inclined 17 degrees. That would reflect
that Eris relates to being a nonconformist as well as being
divergent.

Based on reading Zane Stein's article and his keywords as well as Roy
MacKinnon's keywords and the charts that I have looked at, I believe
that Eris has to do with stirring stuff up, controversy, ideology,
civil/equal rights matters, standing up for self/others, advocacy,
bigotry, racism, minorities, race relations, diversity, .....all
those things are connected to each other too.

It could be racial relations stuff like the racial divide,
interracial relationships, interracial marriages, interracial family
connections,and interracial parentage. It it could be the
multiracial. It could even be international relations. It could be
like tolerance/intolerance of divergence, diversity, minorities(not
necessarily race, ethnic...but even religion, sexual orientation,
etc). It's the intolerance of divergents, diversity, minorities that
lead to equal/civil rights issues.

Barack Obama is definitely a racial minority, he comes across as
divergent to many, and he seems to believe in acceptance/tolerance of
diversity by many(note:I didn't say most nor all), he comes from a
family background that is diverse. He's a civil rights lawyer. Of
course, he's viewed as being Muslim by many people(note: I didn't say
most nor all). Of course,many Muslims are frowned upon here in USA.
He also has a highly controversial minister who gets called racists
after pointing out the racism here in USA that is even confirmed by
the United Nations. Being biracial black and white,he was torn
between the white and black races like many biracial black and white
people. Even in this day and age, "the one drop rule" is still in
effect. A biracial people tend to have no choice but identify mainly
with minority race because that's how society will view them
as....especially if they are part black. With him in the presidential
race,the need to create a bridge between blacks and whites and deal
with the race divide is very obvious.

Roy, Zane, Francisco, and Phil have some very good preliminary
keywords for Eris, and they go well beyond discord. The Eris research
that I did seem to support their keywords.

Roy MacKinnon's Eris' Keywords:
Striving to achieve one's goals and refusing to capitulate to the
pressure of unjust treatment and discord from abusive authority :
with great inner conviction and single-mindedness of purpose
following a path of high attainment and enlightenment notwithstanding
adversity - alternatively refusing the call to transform with
mediocrity and underachievement as consequences: issues around power
abuse of minorities, the defenceless, the alien: networks,
multinational countries and companies, the world- wide web: piracy,
terrorism, clash of ideologies: conflict between desires of
personality and pursuit of the inner call: persecution of the
spiritually aware person who stands alone courageously acting
according to conscience: an outstanding individual ahead of the
times.

Zane Stein's Eris Keywords:
Loss of innocence, entrance into adulthood; child's trauma being
separated from parent; acceptance of unavoidable changes; dying and
being reborn (as opposed to Pluto which rules the causes/processes of
death and rebirth); internal split causing longing to be whole, the
longing of the soul for its other half; the subject/object of a
debate, argument, competition, conflict or war...what stirs people to
fight or disagree; fighting for one's rights; strife and discord;
pitting one side against the other; competition, contests and
tournaments; struggles for supremacy; rivalry; a test of skills or
abilities; love of fighting or debate; what one has at stake in a
competition, dispute or conflict, or one's perspective of what is
being fought over; refusing to relinquish one's hold on an ideal,
belief, cause, or object...'not budging an inch'; the problems
resulting from irreconcilable differences; contrasting different
perspectives; comparing thesis and antithesis in the search for
truth; contrasting opposing viewpoints to reveal each side more
clearly, to seek similarities as well as differences; contrasting
logical thought processes to show the limitations of logic;
identifying with, or trying to understand, first principles;
incongruous juxtapositions to force one to think outside of the box;
the ethics connected with one's motives and methods, and the coming
to light of less than spotless methods; the roots of one's
motivations; piracy, defrauding, swindling; society's ethics; race
intent.

Francesco Schiavinotto's Keywords:
Dam; Damming; Obstruction; Obliteration; To be opposite; Aversion for
the Extraneous; To obstacle the Alien; False Adaption between
Different Matters; Reciprocal Aversion; Feeling to be Invaded;
Resistance; Incommunicability; Controversial Figure; Ecological
Incompatibility; Underground Instability

It's Eris' Co-Discoverer, Michael Brown that seemed to give the clue
to Eris' meaning

"She causes strife by causing arguments among men, by making them
think their opinions are right and everyone else's is wrong, " Brown
said. "It really is just perfect." )
www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N38/38shorts2.html

That seems to fit with
controversy,ideology,diversity,divergence,considerate/inconsiderate
of viewpoints/opinions/beliefs/values,bigotry,terrorism, redefining
boundaries)......Honestly, I think that it not only fits with any
belief system but also even Astrology(look at how much diversity is
in Astology that involves so much disagreement that even Steven
Forrest ,who has Moon conjunct Eris, refers to the issue as Tower
Babel and stated that the idea of "One True Astrology" is a myth and
destructive). I even think that Eris might even be a co-ruler of
Astrology.

The Tower of Babel applies to the whole planet in general for there
is much diversity with much intolerance,miscommunications,and
misunderstandings.

Many Christians used the Tower of Babel story in the Bible as an
excuse for segregation,interracial marriage bans

for example:

In June 1958, two residents of Virginia, Mildred Jeter, a Negro
woman, and Richard Loving, a white man, were married in the District
of Columbia pursuant to its laws. Shortly after their marriage, the
Lovings returned to Virginia and established their marital abode in
Caroline County. At the October Term, 1958, of the Circuit Court of
Caroline County, a grand jury issued an indictment charging the
Lovings with violating Virginia's ban on interracial marriages. On
January 6, 1959, the Lovings pleaded guilty to the charge and were
sentenced to one year in jail; however, the trial judge suspended the
sentence for a period of 25 years on the condition that the Lovings
leave the State and not return to Virginia together for 25 years. He
stated in an opinion that:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red,
and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the
interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such
marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not
intend for the races to mix." http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/loving.html

Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)[1], was a landmark civil rights
case in which the United States Supreme Court declared Virginia's
anti-miscegenation statute, the "Racial Integrity Act of 1924",
unconstitutional, thereby overturning Pace v. Alabama (1883) and
ending all race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the United
States.

In Eris' discovery chart, Moon in 10'57 Scorpio in 7th house square
Babel in 9'31 Leo in 5th which seems to fit the issues
dealing with interracial relationships as well as their offspring.
Tower of Babel seems to fit with Eris http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q112/Astynaz/ErisDiscoveryAstrology.gif

in my own chart:
Eris in 12'15 Aries R in 8th
conjunct Chiron in 10'32 Aries R
sextile Midheaven in 11'14 Gemini
sextile North Lunar Node in 10'29 Aquarius
trine Jupiter in 8'17 Sagittarius in 3rd
quincunx Ascendant in 13'27 Virgo
biquintile Mercury in Scorpio in 3rd - '06

South Eris Node in 5'30 Scorpio in 2nd
Sun in 5'20 Scorpio in 2nd
Saturn in 5'08 Gemini in 9th R

Raymond