posted December 16, 2008 08:55 AM         

quote:

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If I don't have feelings for a man [not just "like" that person], I choose not get any nookie at all. I guess I'm a person of extremes or simply highly idealistic.

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posted December 16, 2008 08:59 AM         

We have mixed here two things:
virginity and celibate.
Virginity is so long there as somebody doesn't sleep with other person. After that is over with Virgin.

Celibate: I know one woman who had relationship and was disappointed. After that she went to Monastery. She was no more virgin but she has decided to live in celibate.

We don't need to be in Monastery to live in celibate. It can happen anyway: stop with relationship or sex (better).

posted December 16, 2008 09:04 AM         

Thank you for correcting me: my countryman. It sounds strange to me, but you know better.

Other question to you:

For women there is a doctor who can give the proof (they do it in some countries) if some girl is virgin.

How somebody can prove by men; are they virgins or not?

Buena

posted December 16, 2008 10:43 AM         

I'm starting to think it will never happen either. Astrologically I don't know why, but I blame it on my T-square in Moon in Pisces, Saturn in Virgo, Neptune in Sagittarius. It's impossible for me to let anyone get close to me. I shut down completely whenever I'm attracted to someone. I've had chances to be with people I really liked, and liked me back but each time I ruined it by being too proud to give in to them. I have to admit that I grew up believing that men are pigs and a woman sleeping around is a **** . Even if I resented that belief - that virginity is a virtue, I somehow let it affect me.

this is my chart if anyone wants to have a look.

posted December 16, 2008 10:52 AM         

I'll send you an email later today Peri.

posted December 16, 2008 03:48 PM         

and....not all that interesting.

and yet...such a HOT topic?

posted December 16, 2008 04:22 PM         

I'm not sure if a chart can really show you if you are prone to celibacy or your a big horn dog! But I just wanted to point out to myself that there is no reason that I am still a Virgin, but I still am, I don't know why? I'm worried that like others have said that waiting longer causes you to idealize the first time, which I don't want to do, then again I don't want it to be really awkward, but sometimes that is just given.

I've read that the 8th house has to do with sex that has a spiritual transcendence to it, which should make sense with not just giving it up right away. But I'm personally tired of waiting, then again I don't want to feel like most of my generation that Virginity is something that just needs to be rid of.

I do not believe in the ideology that being a Virgin means your "Pure" what a bunch of patriarchal BS! This is an idea that is from the dark ages sorta speak, and I suppose I'm a feminist for certain (Venus opposition Uranus in the first), so I don't value Virginity in the "traditional" sense.

posted December 16, 2008 05:03 PM         

I find that not only many men are guilty of sterotypes when it comes to males and females. Many women are too.

My exgf is a feminist in that she believes in equality of the sexes and she believes that women are minorities. She told me that her mother just hates men,thinks that they are all the same,and can't be trusted because of how she was hurt by my exgf's father. Any ways...my exgf didn't have sex until she 20 years old,and that was with an exbf. She didn't have sex with any other guys before she met me. She even admits that she's a passionate prude,and that was something that attracted me to her. She didn't feel that she need to practice sexual liberation and that being celibate can be just as feminist too. I tend to prefer women that are sexually reserved because I am myself. It has nothing to do with any outdated Victorian beliefs.

I regret the times that I had meaningless sex in my early 20's and wished that I had kept my virginity even though I was a bit out of place with many of fellow shipmates that cared about getting drunk and getting laid.

I don't believe that sex and morals are connected either. I believe all that is relative.

I just find the virgin,celibate,sexually reserved women to be very attractive to me.......it's probably reflecting my Moon-Saturn-Neptune t-square, my Venus-Saturn-Neptune declinations,and my Juno in Virgo.

I believe that my indicator for being a feminist is Sun conjunct true Black Moon Lilith with 22 minutes of arc. Especially with all the feminist stuff that I constantly read from many female astrologers about black Moon lilith over the years. My mother was the only biological parent that I ever knew too. That fits right in with the symbolism

I think Venus oppose Uranus fits more with liberalism in regards to love,relationships. My mom has Venus conjunct/parallel Uranus with it squaring Neptune in Libra in 5th, and her relationship liberalism manifest as her being a white woman that had relationships with black men including my father.

I am definitely liberal in regards to to love,relationships...my Uranus in Libra in 2nd can indicate liberal relationship values. I am into interracial relationships with white women myself just like my black father was in one with my white mother.
I also believe in gay rights,and so I believe that gay marriage should be a right. I don't believe that gay couples should be barred from marrying each other like couples of different races were barred from marrying each other. To me,it's no different from a discrimination,civil rights stand point. Mildred Loving felt the same way.

I say let lesbians marry each other. Let gay men marry each other.

if women want to go around and have sex with a lot of men without being called a **** ,hoe,or other words that are synonymous with promiscuous of disrespect, they should. They are no worse than women who are virgins,celibate,sexually reserved.

it should also be the same with men too.

equal treatment for sexes in every way. Equal rights as well as equal responsibilities.

I believe self righteousness is one of the biggest problems on our planet. There is definitely a lot of self righteousness in regards to morals,ethics which are very relative. After all,we all have our own views and beliefs that differ from others. That's the beauty of diversity.

maybe my Eris in 8th indicates my belief in sexual diversity along with my Sun conjunct South Eris Node in Scorpio in 2nd/oppose North Eris Node in Taurus in 8th.

Raymond

posted December 16, 2008 08:46 PM         

quote:

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I say let lesbians marry each other. Let gay men marry each other.

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I totally agree Glaucus!

I also believe that feminism can be extremist sometimes especially when there are women out there that hate men, how can this world ever be harmonious if there is always some kind of opposing force, misogyny verses feminism, where is the middle, and will there ever be one?

I'm also really tired of talking to fellow women and them generalizing men or that just because a certain person I know had a certain experience with a man means I'm going to go through the same thing, I doubt it. Isn't individuality about experiencing things differently?

posted December 16, 2008 09:24 PM         

quote:

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I'm worried that like others have said that waiting longer causes you to idealize the first time

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I didn't. I lost my virginity at 24 and I can honestly tell you that I didn't idealize it even though I waited longer. It was fun, it was passionate, and it was not perfect. I did care for the person, but it ended up being temporary, and that was ok.

You make out of it what you want to make out of it. If you idealize it and obsess over it, that's your choice.

quote:

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But I'm personally tired of waiting,

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Understandably. You start to wonder what the big deal is all about. Ultimately it's a personal choice. Do you want to have a personal connection with someone first? Do you want to just have sex to say you've done it and maybe have a little fun in the process? Some people care more about being viewed as sexy and desirable (and measure this by how many people they've jumped into bed with) than having a personal connection with someone (it is a way to bolster the self-esteem and feel a sense of power). It's really a decision of what is more important to you.

quote:

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then again I don't want to feel like most of my generation that Virginity is something that just needs to be rid of.

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That I can understand. Part of the "virginity is something to be rid of" mentality is the concept that we, as people, are not worthy and beautiful without having sex. That if we don't have sex constantly there is something fundamentally wrong with us. I hate that view with a passion. Don't get me wrong, sex is great and is integral to romantic relationships. However, life isn't just about sex (though it is a very wonderful part of life ), but you'd think that it was the only thing worth living for the way some people talk about it. (And for some people, it really might be the only thing worth living for).

For many people having sex is tied in with self worth. However when your only sense of self-worth comes from being sexy, having sex, and having as many sex partners as possible it's easy to forget about the other positive qualities a person might have (or negative qualities for that matter).

Maybe I'm just becoming jaded about the society that we are becoming where sex is the ultimate goal and being sexy is the only thing that we aspire to.

Those people on the celibacy lists made wonderful contributions to the world (well, except for Ed Gein) and maybe their personal view was that sex and personal relationships were a distraction to them or they were self-contained enough that it was not an essential part of their self-esteem, etc. Whatever the reason, they still did important things and touched other people's lives even without having sex (or without having sex often).

Truth of the matter is, people are always afraid of others that seem outside of the norm, and while it was once custom to be chaste (whether or not people actually were), we are swinging back the other way in a reactionary fashion, which is pretty typical.

End soapbox rant. lol.

posted December 16, 2008 10:43 PM         

enchantress299, great post!

The chart posted of the 28 yo on here who chooses a certain path in life is a good example, if it is accurate. Pisces on the 8th seems a good placement and only confirms what I wrote earlier, so you can see why I like it.

posted December 16, 2008 10:48 PM         

women that hate men are sexist themselves just like blacks that hate whites are racist themselves.

"I'm also really tired of talking to fellow women and them generalizing men or that just because a certain person I know had a certain experience with a man means I'm going to go through the same thing, I doubt it. Isn't individuality about experiencing things differently?"

Exactly I don't fit any male stereotypes,and so those women's arguments wouldn't fly one bit.

There are lot of women that play games with men. I knew a lot of women that played games too. I got played many times.
That didn't make me hate women. That didn't make me think that all women are bad. Maybe that's reflected by Moon in Pisces square Neptune and even my Moon sextile Sedna.

I feel that if a person that hates another person of another group just because he/she got hurt by a person of that group in the past, there was already a capacity to hate. An event just brings out that hatred.

also there is a difference between being angry about injustices and hating somebody. I get the impression from people that are one and the same. However,those things do co-exist in many people.

Raymond

posted December 16, 2008 10:58 PM         

Like I said before,I don't fit male stereotypes. I am a male with strong feminine traits. I even have highly feminine finger ratio(index finger longer than my ring finger). The average male is said to have ring finger longer than index finger. The average female tends to have them the same length. I do have lower than average testosterone levels and high estrogen levels confirmed by Veteran Affairs hormone testing. I had to pretty much push to get my estrogen levels checked too because they only tested for male hormone stuff. Sure enough,my estrogen levels turned out to be high.

I am member of NOW(National Organization for Women too),and I donate monthly to the Equality Action Fund. There are lot of men that are members of that organization.

Frederick Douglass was also not just an abolutionist who fought for the equality of races, but he also fought for women's rights too. He, the offspring of black woman and white man, married a white feminist woman as his 2nd wife.

He is one of the people that I read about when I was a teenager and grew up admiring.

I still love what he said to justify to people about marrying a white woman.

"My first wife is the color of my mother,and now my second wife is the color of my father"

I liked that he acknowledged his interracial parentage,and he was all for crossing the color lines.

he ran as a vice president with a woman running as president too. He had nothing against having a woman for president. I don't either. I won't hesitate to vote for a qualified woman as president.

Frederick Douglass (born Frederick Augustus Washington Bailey, February 14, 1818 – February 20, 1895) was an American abolitionist, women's suffragist, editor, orator, author, statesman and reformer. Called "The Sage of Anacostia" and "The Lion of Anacostia", Douglass is one of the most prominent figures in African-American history and United States history. In 1872, Douglass became the very first African-American nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate in the U.S., running on the Equal Rights Party ticket with Victoria Woodhull, the first woman to run for President of the United States.

He was a firm believer in the equality of all people, whether black, female, Native American, or recent immigrant. He was fond of saying, "I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass

I believe exactly like him.

As an astrologer, I see that astrology shows that males and females can have similarities as well as differences. I feel the same way about races too.

That's one of the things that I like about Astrology. It shows that we can be more alike than we think,and so the lines divide us aren't really there.