posted February 09, 2014 11:51 PM            

I've been studying astrology for the past few months and got into looking at aspect patterns just recently. It took me a little bit to notice them in my chart however because most of them are dependent on my Midheaven. So my first question would be do aspect patterns dependent on the Midheaven count?

Here is my chart:[IMG]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums /ac87/Morningsun52113/Mobile%20Uploads/8041c226-54ed-449d-91e3-d2e3d33ab288_zpsae5004cc.gif[/IMG]
I'm really sorry for having it be a link. I tried to find how to download your chart to the site but couldn't. Any help as far as that goes would be appreciated. I also could not find how to put an image or else I probably would have done that.

Moving on, as you can see, I have quite a few aspect patterns in my chart. I'm not exactly sure yet how rare it is to have the number of patterns that I have in one chart, but I feel as though the 70 or so that I have has to be up there.

I also don't know if you can put hide tags or not, so please excuse the list that is going to follow.

Here are all of the aspect patterns that I see in my chart. Please let me know if any of these are invalid or if I'm missing any:

Yod:
Chiron Quincunx Saturn Sextile MC Quincunx Chiron

Mystic Rectangles:
1) Mars Trine MC Sextile Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Opposite Saturn w/ Pluto Opposite MC
2) North Node Trine MC Sextile Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Opposite Saturn w/ Pluto Opposite MC

Envelopes:
1) Mystic Rectangle 1+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Moon Sextile Pluto
2) Mystic Rectangle 2+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Moon Sextile Pluto
3) Mystic Rectangle 1+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Uranus Sextile Pluto
4) Mystic Rectangle 2+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Uranus Sextile Pluto
5) Mystic Rectangle 1+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Venus Sextile Pluto
6) Mystic Rectangle 2+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Venus Sextile Pluto
7) Mystic Rectangle 1+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Jupiter Sextile Pluto
8) Mystic Rectangle 2+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Jupiter Sextile Pluto
9) Mystic Rectangle 1+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Ceres Sextile Pluto
10) Mystic Rectangle 2+ Pluto Trine Saturn Sextile Ceres Sextile Pluto

Kites:
With a 6 degree orb:

1) Mars Trine MC Trine Ceres w/ MC Opposite Pluto
2) Mars Trine MC Trine Ceres w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
3) Mars Trine MC Trine Jupiter w/ MC Opposite Pluto
4) Mars Trine MC Trine Jupiter w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
5) Mars Trine MC Trine Venus w/ MC Opposite Pluto
6) Mars Trine MC Trine Venus w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
7) Mars Trine MC Trine Uranus w/ MC Opposite Pluto
8) Mars Trine MC Trine Uranus w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
9) Mars Trine MC Trine Moon w/ MC Opposite Pluto
10) Mars Trine MC Trine Moon w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
11) North Node Trine MC Trine Mercury w/ MC Opposite Pluto
12) North Node Trine MC Trine Mercury w/ North Node Opposite Saturn
13) North Node Trine MC Trine Neptune w/ MC Opposite Pluto
14) North Node Trine MC Trine Neptune w/ North Node Opposite Saturn
15) North Node Trine MC Trine Ceres w/ MC Opposite Pluto
16) North Node Trine MC Trine Ceres w/ North Node Opposite Saturn
17) North Node Trine MC Trine Jupiter w/ MC Opposite Pluto
18) North Node Trine MC Trine Jupiter w/ North Node Opposite Saturn
19) North Node Trine MC Trine Venus w/ MC Opposite Pluto
20) North Node Trine MC Trine Venus w/ North Node Opposite Saturn
21) North Node Trine MC Trine Uranus w/ MC Opposite Pluto
22) North Node Trine MC Trine Uranus w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
If an 8 degree Orb is allowed:
23) Mars Trine MC Trine Neptune w/ MC Opposite Pluto
24) Mars Trine MC Trine Neptune w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
If a 10 degree Orb is allowed:
25) Mars Trine MC Trine Mercury w/ MC Opposite Pluto
26) Mars Trine MC Trine Mercury w/ Mars Opposite Saturn
27) North Node Trine MC Trine Moon w/ North Node Opposite Saturn
28) North Node Trine MC Trine Moon w/ MC Opposite Pluto

Those 22, 24, or 28 Kites make for 11, 12, or 14 Grand Trines, respectively.

Cradles:
With a 6 degree Orb
1) Mars Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Trine Ceres Sextile Pluto Sextile Mars
2) North Node Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Trine Ceres Sextile Pluto Sextile North Node
3) Mars Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Trine Jupiter Sextile Pluto Sextile Mars
4) North Node Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Trine Jupiter Sextile Pluto Sextile North Node
5) Mars Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Trine Venus Sextile Pluto Sextile Mars
6) North Node Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Trine Venus Sextile Pluto Sextile North Node
7) Mars Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Trine Uranus Sextile Pluto Sextile Mars
8) North Node Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Trine Uranus Sextile Pluto Sextile North Node
9) Mars Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Trine Moon Sextile Pluto Sextile Mars
10) North Node Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Trine Mercury Sextile Pluto Sextile North Node
11) North Node Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Trine Neptune Sextile Pluto Sextile North Node
If an 8 degree Orb is allowed:
12) Mars Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Trine Neptune Sextile Pluto Sextile Mars
If a 10 degree Orb is allowed:
13) Mars Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile Mars Trine Mercury Sextile Pluto Sextile Mars
14) North Node Opposite Saturn Trine Pluto Sextile North Node Trine Moon Sextile Pluto Sextile North Node

And of course, last but not least, my Stellium that goes from 26 Capricorn to 18 Aquarius:
Mercury-Neptune-Ceres-Jupiter-Venus-Uranus-Moon-Eros-Vesta-Sun

Although not displayed in the provided natal chart, my Eros is at 10 Aquarius and my Vesta is at 16 Aquarius. Since Eros is not considered one of the major asteroids and wasn't even an option on Astrodienst, I figured that it may not be worth including in my other aspect patterns. However, if I had included it, I would've had another Envelope, another Grand Trine, 2 more Kites, and another Cradle.

So, my question is basically, how rare is it to have so many aspect patterns in a single natal chart and what does it mean that I have so many?

This is my first post, so pardon me if I did something wrong (that list for example) and please help me to fix it.

posted February 11, 2014 01:24 PM            

I'm also sorry about the delay. I would very much love an interpretation after I get my chart up. Thank you again.

posted February 12, 2014 11:17 AM            

As for your aspects being rare or not, I haven't observed enough chart to know, thought your chart does have very defined patterns.

You have a huge focus on your 5th house, the house of creative expression of the self, plus North Node in the 1st house, plus almost all the planets in the first half of the chart, so that it is important for you to define yourself, find your true self, and express your self.

posted February 12, 2014 12:39 PM            

Thank you for the reading. I wasn't sure about the MC counting or not. I've seen some astrologers count it and others not because of the fact that it's not a physical body. But in that case, would you count the North Node? It's a calculated point as well.

The creativity expressed through work will hopefully resonate for me and should if I'm able to do what I want to.

I very actively search for knowledge, especially about myself and the universe.

My Virgo Ascendant along with Stellium in Aquarius definitely give me a layered personality per se. You don't know me until you really know me and until I open myself to you. But it makes communication something I very much enjoy. Although I'm introverted and like to have time completely alone, I also like time with people, especially those who I care for.

My ideals are a bit unrealistic, and I am optimistic. But as you said, the other planets in my chart help to balance me out in a way so that I'm not constantly seeking excitement. Or perhaps I find excitement in an unusual manner (strong Uranus and Aquarius)?

Your reading resonates pretty well except for what you said about Chiron (or at least that's what I feel). My Chiron is more heavily affected by it's sign placing than it's house placing in my opinion, and to be honest, I'm not sure why. I feel as though the Chiron may be more like I'm able to help people with emotional difficulties because I have a generally objective outlook on things (strong air and earth signs), but that I have trouble finding my true emotional self because I experience more through my mind (strong moon) than through physical experience and pure emotion (lack of water signs).

Writing this, I feel as though I'm unsure of what I'm doing possibly because of my North Node in the first house. As in, I'm looking to know whether or not I'm interpreting my chart correctly as well as seeing the interpretations others have to offer. So please, comment on what I'm saying and offer constructive criticism if you have any.

As far as the emotional trauma goes in childhood, I feel as though I should've but was shielded by my parents. I did move around a lot, but I was relatively free-spirited and didn't mind. I feel as though my early life (ages 0-9) was really hard on my parents though, but they tried not to let me feel the brunt of it and succeeded for the most part.

Sorry for skipping around. But to address the Mercury and Neptune conjunction, I feel as though it might work with the Mars/Pluto/Saturn combination because I definitely want to do more things than I will probably be able to fit into a lifetime. However, I do have some set goals that I've given priority and am incredibly driven to achieve.

posted February 12, 2014 02:06 PM            

I would count the angles as well as the Nodes, as they are very real parts of ourselves that it doesn't matter if they are just calculated points. For example, planets aspecting them either harmoniously or not will have effects on them. Your Aquarius planets trine MC shows harmony between these two sides of you, that they can work together, so it wouldn't make sense to not include these points.

Actually it's interesting how you described your layers due to Virgo AC and Aquarius side. I'm Virgo AC and have an Aries stellium, and that is how I feel too.

As for your Chiron, that's a good analysis. The sign of the placements shows how the elements, in this case Chiron, manifests. So what you said, that you are good at guiding people through emotional difficulties, would make sense. Scorpio is an emotionally deep sign, it understand things beyond superficial, the dynamics deep under, behind the emotions and feelings. That is why Scorpio can be so good at helping others, if one chooses to use the understanding for good, as Scorpio is also in tune with the darker and more unconscious sides, It is instinctive too. The pitfall would be getting lost inside the darkness, or being too "pessimistic" about things ("this world is so ugly", "everyone is selfish" kind of thinking), or getting lost with things one cannot let go of. We go through the darkness not to get lost, but to rise above it. This might be one of the important lessons of Scorpio, and a Scorpio that can see beyond things is an evolved Scorpio capable of helping others to reach a better comprehension and acceptance as well.

Actually, the North Node is where we should head to, so that it shows our life lessons. So where it is can sometimes not be obvious to us, that we might not fully comprehend it at times, as opposed to the South Node, which is where we are familiar with. Also, it's said that the last degree of the sign, 29º, is very significant, thought I'm not knowledgeable in this. Maybe it can help if you can find some info about this, in LL I've seen some threads about this degree in the natal charts.

posted February 12, 2014 03:59 PM            

If I'm not mistaken, it's because Air and Fire signs have a masculine energy to them, whereas Earth and Water signs have a feminine energy to them.

I would think Fire and Earth to be a rather challenging combination. Usually, I see Earth and Air as the more objective signs and Water and Fire as the more passionate/emotional ones. So, you could be really well balanced or your inner and outer selves could be really out of touch with each other. I would think the latter because Virgo and Aires are Quincunx, but the former is possible too, depending on your level of awareness, and could have been promoted by something like Sun Conjunct Moon or Mercury Conjunct Mars.

Thank you. I try to use it to help people. Would you consider being sarcastic or cynical a bad manifestation of Chiron in Scorpio? And also, what if you recognize the world as realistically full of a lot of problems but feel that the problems can be fixed and try to work towards fixing them? I feel as though there can't be light without darkness and so it is important to recognize the darkness in order to see light. Would that be a manifestation of Scorpio Chrion?

I didn't know about critical degrees. Thank you. Here's what I found about 29: http://www.cafeastrology.com/criticaldegrees.html

Looking at the top of that, I realized I had Mercury in Capricorn at 26 degrees, the Moon at 9 Aquarius, and my Midheaven at 4 Gemini (furthering my belief that the MC is the most powerful feature of my chart along with my Uranus and Moon). I'll do some reading about these and tell you what I find if you'd like.

I meant exactly what you did. Outside of my own, I've read one chart so far, so I'm fairly new myself and don't really know how accurate my readings are. Basically, I was looking to know if I was reading it correctly and if there was something I was missing. So by outlook, I meant my perception of my chart.

posted February 12, 2014 07:37 PM            

As for Chiron in Scorpio, cynism being bad or not actually depends on the reason behind it. Thing is, this world has both beautiful and ugly sides, and to ignore either side of it is to not truly accepting how things truly are. Ignoring the bad is being too idealistic and living in a lie, just as ignoring the bad (which can translate to excessive cynism) is being too pessimistic and living in a lie as well. Light and dark both existed, exists and will continue to exist. The important question is, when we realize how dark things can be, can we raise from it? It's just as you said, it's important to recognize the darkness in order to see the light.
From the signs of Aries to Pisces, we go through different stages of life and learn important lessons. Aries is the emerging of self, Taurus is the personal values and life in material plane, Gemini is mind/communication and expansion of intellect, Cancer is our family and origins, then after passing through these lessons there is Leo, the sign that after we go through self discovery, now goes to creative expression of self and ego. Then Virgo, after knowing the self and the talents of self, begins to feel the need to use one's talents to be at service for the world, to help reach perfection and order through methodical approach. Then in Libra, the first sign that focuses on others, begins to realize and acknowledge the existence of others. Then it comes Scorpio. Scorpio now, after all these stages, is the sign that starts to go deeper, deeper into the unconscious and live, the survival instincts, as well as exploring the deeper dynamics of relationships. What it means to bond in an even deeper level? To share. and build resources together? When we bond deeper, our darker sides can surface and come to light in relationships. Also, what does it mean to form stronger attachments? Why do we grow so attached to certain things, why do we desire power and control... Scorpio goes through the darker dynamics of humans, and there it faces a darkness that can at times be so ugly that it would get lost in it. But we go through the darkness not to forget about light, but to actually understand that there is both light and darkness so that we need to acknowledge darkness as well. That is why after Scorpio, there comes the last fire sign, Sagittarius. Sagittarius is the sign that represents the light after darkness, the realization of a higher consciousness. The sign related to beliefs, philosophies, spirituality. And after going through all these, there is Capricorn, the sign that is related to society, social responsibilities, the career. It is when we are mature that we can begin to know where we stand in the society, and what impacts we can bring to it, as well as the responsibilities with it. Then after this comes Aquarius, the sign of freedom, ideals shared in common gorups and communities, and friends. Aquarius being the sign of freedom and the unconventional doesn't mean simply rebelling against anything, we went through Capricorn to know the importance of structure after all. But in Aquarius, we learn what it means to truly be free and allow ourselves to be inspired by what the future canb ring, possible changes. And lastly, we have Pisces,the sign that represents the unconditional love and the collective souls. I would like to explain a bit better about Pisces, thought I'm still not able to grasp its symbolism well so I need to reflect more on it.
(I hope that I didn't get too off topic here, but I really love this since I've learned from my astrology teacher )

Thanks for sharing the links you have found, I remember some other thread in LL that talked about decision making and the 29 degrees in natal charts but back then didn't pay attention.

posted February 13, 2014 11:45 AM            

That's what I was thinking. But I feel as though cynicism is always brought into a negative light whenever I read about astrology.
Exactly.

Thank you for that description. It makes a lot of sense looking at how those connect. So would you say that my Chironic mission is to find myself spiritually and emotionally, to delve into my subconscious?

If I had to interpret Pisces in the grand scheme of things, I would probably say that it's the bridge between the natural and the supernatural worlds, what is inside you and what is outside you. In Aquarius, you become absorbed by the outside world. Pisces is realizing once again that there is a world inside of you that needs exploration as well, a world that cannot be ignored and that holds the answers to many questions that the outside cannot answer. However, Pisces also realizes that one cannot retreat completely into themselves because there's an outside world that needs to be taken into account. And so, it finds a balance between all that is material and all that is immaterial.

What I find really interesting about me is that even with the Aquarius Stellium, I am far more introverted than extroverted. Is it because I barely have any planets in the Southern half of my chart?

It wasn't off-topic at all. I really love to learn about all of this stuff. By new to astrology, I mean I didn't know about anything beyond sun signs until August of last year, so I still have a lot to learn.

posted February 13, 2014 02:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingofCups:
So would you say that my Chironic mission is to find myself spiritually and emotionally, to delve into my subconscious?

---

Spirituality is probably more related to "after Scorpio" stage, in Scorpio there is a focus on starting to get in touch with the deeper, beyond superficial matters of life. Our survival, primal instincts are intensified and brought to the surface, and the unconscious inner dynamics are also brought to the surface. We realize that there are deeper things behind people, sometimes dark and ugly, and we realize what happens when we form deeper bonds with people and start to have a more soulful connection. And with this connection, the deeper and darker side of people will also meet, and inevitably get into conflicts too. That is where manipulation and other ugly things like jealousy or control, power plays can show - coz people are driven to face their own inner issues, whether they are conscious or unconscious of them, they might make one uncomfortable and defensive, or wanting to control things in attempt to feel safe.
Scorpio is the sign that begins to learn that there is this darkness in people; and then what survival and death means too. The fragility of life and things becomes real here, which can also trigger the need to fight and control.

There are 3 levels of Scorpio - the Scorpio, the Eagle and the Phoenix. In the first level, Scorpio can only see what's on his level, it fights for its survival and stings if necessary. Then there is Eagle, the more evolved Scorpio that begins to see further and from a higher ground. Then it comes Phoenix. Phoenix is the being that after being burnt, after death, rises from the ashes and becomes greater. Scorpio is the sign that has to go through "death" in order to reach farther, and rise from the dark. This by no means mean physical death, but "death" by finally letting go of control and obsession, and accept that we don't control everything about life, and how to let go of it.

Your Chiron in Scorpio can mean many things, it depends on your Scorpio lessons. Maybe you have to reflect on what it means to bond with someone beyond superficial level; maybe you have to understand your emotional and subconscious, and bring things from it to the surface; maybe you have to learn about letting go of control or learn how not to obsess or over attach; maybe you have to learn to reach peace with the darkness in others or in this world, and so on.
Also, maybe understanding your planets in the 8th house (in this case Saturn, which is heavy) can help too as 8th house is Scorpio's house.

Thought Chiron aside of representing our long term wounds, also represents the mentor, and with your own lessons you can also learn how to guide others with what you learn (which you already do). Since Scorpio understand what's deeper and is not afraid of it (usually society makes us feel that we should just repress and ignore ugly emotions like jealousy or dark things instead of having courage to acknowledge and deal with them), it becomes a mentor capable of being in tune and therefore guide others to solve it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingofCups:
What I find really interesting about me is that even with the Aquarius Stellium, I am far more introverted than extroverted. Is it because I barely have any planets in the Southern half of my chart?

---

Maybe it's coz you have Virgo AC, thought indeed your aspects actually seem extroverted. But you also have Mercury/Neptune in Cap, and Saturn in the 8th and Pluto conjunct IC.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingofCups:
It wasn't off-topic at all. I really love to learn about all of this stuff. By new to astrology, I mean I didn't know about anything beyond sun signs until August of last year, so I still have a lot to learn.

A decade… wow. And you've just started interpreting charts. Why? Did you just not feel ready earlier or not have time or want to be unbelievably well read on the subject before starting interpretations?

---

I didn't start giving readings, as I was not knowledgeable enough back then; I also focused mostly on my own charts. Giving readings can be a responsibility, as we can affect other people's perception of things. Also, to be able to give a good reading, I need to be intuitively in tune with the symbolism, so that I still might not always feel in tune with it.

But I've decided to give it a try now, as I wanted to help other people too like I was helped back then. We will have to start at some point anyways, so I better give it a try than still waiting for the perfect time to start, which is probably impossible lol since there are always things to learn.

posted February 13, 2014 03:17 PM            

My first girlfriend had her Venus Conjunct my Chiron, an aspect that I really loved about her even though it would make her Venus Square my own and Opposite Juno, which is at 0 Taurus*. I feel as though the relationship really made me grow as a person and was meant to make me grow the way it did. Most of my friends actually have either Pisces or Scorpio Suns. Basically, I'm more attracted to Water signs than anything else. Thoughts? I know that Pisces is probably because of my Virgo Ascendant. But I'm really close to one of them, and I feel as though it would go beyond my Ascendant being compatible. I was thinking that it might be because I lack Water in my planets or that my Moon is strong.

* I just realized that I have one of each type of critical point in my chart: 0, Cardinal, Fixed, Mutable, and 29. Oh, and my Part of Fortune is at 17 Virgo, which is another Mutable critical point.

How can you tell whether you've evolved from Scorpio to Eagle? I feel as though the dramatic experience to undergo "death and rebirth" would be an obvious indicator of getting to be a Phoenix (I am definitely not a Phoenix), but how does one know when they've moved past being just a Scorpio, relying on primal instinct?

"Maybe you have to reflect on what it means to bond with someone beyond superficial level; maybe you have to understand your emotional and subconscious, and bring things from it to the surface; maybe you have to learn about letting go of control or learn how not to obsess or over attach; maybe you have to learn to reach peace with the darkness in others or in this world, and so on."

I honestly think it might have been all of those in that order. I've gotten through the first. It has always been really hard for me to "give myself" completely to someone else. I find that I don't have a lot of faith in people as individuals (the final lesson). I have a lot of faith in humanity as a whole, just not a lot in people as individuals. You really have to get to know me before I let you know me, and even then, there will still be things about me that you don't know that I am fully aware of.

Moving on, I think I'm working on the second atm. And I feel that knowing yourself completely on a subconscious and emotional level is nearly impossible. However, I feel that after a long time of reflection, contemplation, and a lot of reading, I'm nearing the end of that one.

The third one I can already see myself having trouble with. I am very sentimental. Even when I know I need to let to of something, I never do until I'm forced to. And even then, I am reluctant.

The fourth one is very complicated. I can see the darkness in the world. I can see the darkness in people. I can see the light in both of those as well. But I really don't like the darkness a lot of times, in the world, in the way people treat other people, in the way that when you help someone they are actually surprised and keep their guard up around you because they're so unused to being given aid. There is just so much cruelty alongside the goodness, and I really want to do my part in making it go away to the greatest extent possible. I'm not socialist, but I want everyone to be very much equal, and I want it with conviction. I see that as coming from my Libra Mars. I am very much opposed to how the world works, how society works in general. I strive to be different (Aquarius Stellium) because I know that conforming to a society like today's will lead to no progress. What do I do as far as this goes? Do I not try to fix the world's injustices? Do I not try to make the world a better place? I am an idealist. I know I am an idealist. And I know that there is no way that by myself and in one lifetime I can make everything "good". But should I not try? Should I not be the first of many? How do I achieve spiritual balance? I acknowledge that there must be darkness for there to be light. I acknowledge that what I want this world to be is almost an impossibility. But then, what should I do?

I see those emotions, but I don't like them. I don't think they're good emotions. They're natural, yes. But I don't like them, especially in myself. I think I'm more critical of myself than anyone else. And although that gives me a great confidence in myself (if I match up to my own standards, which I have for the most part, then it gives me a lot of confidence in myself), it also makes me self-conscious. It makes me not want to feel all of those emotions. Even though I know it's natural to feel them, I also feel that it's natural to not want to feel them. So, should I just accept feeling them as an inevitability? Or should I work towards something different?

Would all of those be things that make me introverted? I actually read something that said that the early part of my life would be focused more to within myself (until I was 18 or 19) and that I'd become more extroverted after finding myself entirely. What do you make of that?

posted February 14, 2014 11:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by KingofCups:
Scorpio seems like quite the interesting sign. Thank you for your insight on all of this.

My first girlfriend had her Venus Conjunct my Chiron, an aspect that I really loved about her even though it would make her Venus Square my own and Opposite Juno, which is at 0 Taurus*. I feel as though the relationship really made me grow as a person and was meant to make me grow the way it did. Most of my friends actually have either Pisces or Scorpio Suns. Basically, I'm more attracted to Water signs than anything else. Thoughts? I know that Pisces is probably because of my Virgo Ascendant. But I'm really close to one of them, and I feel as though it would go beyond my Ascendant being compatible. I was thinking that it might be because I lack Water in my planets or that my Moon is strong.

---

Yeah I agree, I also find Scorpio's symbolism very interesting, thought I might be biased as I have an 8th house stellium plus Scorpio Saturn/Pluto/South Node.

Venus conjunct Chiron seems like a beautiful synastry aspect to have. You have Pisces DC that can point to attraction to water signs, plus you have Scorpio Chiron, and Pluto (Scorpio's co-ruler) conjunct IC and Neptune (Pisces ruler) conjunct Mercury, showing a strong emphasis on emotions and sensitive/deep side, which can also point to affinity towards water types.

quote:

---

How can you tell whether you've evolved from Scorpio to Eagle? I feel as though the dramatic experience to undergo "death and rebirth" would be an obvious indicator of getting to be a Phoenix (I am definitely not a Phoenix), but how does one know when they've moved past being just a Scorpio, relying on primal instinct?

"Maybe you have to reflect on what it means to bond with someone beyond superficial level; maybe you have to understand your emotional and subconscious, and bring things from it to the surface; maybe you have to learn about letting go of control or learn how not to obsess or over attach; maybe you have to learn to reach peace with the darkness in others or in this world, and so on."

I honestly think it might have been all of those in that order. I've gotten through the first. It has always been really hard for me to "give myself" completely to someone else. I find that I don't have a lot of faith in people as individuals (the final lesson). I have a lot of faith in humanity as a whole, just not a lot in people as individuals. You really have to get to know me before I let you know me, and even then, there will still be things about me that you don't know that I am fully aware of.

Moving on, I think I'm working on the second atm. And I feel that knowing yourself completely on a subconscious and emotional level is nearly impossible. However, I feel that after a long time of reflection, contemplation, and a lot of reading, I'm nearing the end of that one.

The third one I can already see myself having trouble with. I am very sentimental. Even when I know I need to let to of something, I never do until I'm forced to. And even then, I am reluctant.

The fourth one is very complicated. I can see the darkness in the world. I can see the darkness in people. I can see the light in both of those as well. But I really don't like the darkness a lot of times, in the world, in the way people treat other people, in the way that when you help someone they are actually surprised and keep their guard up around you because they're so unused to being given aid. There is just so much cruelty alongside the goodness, and I really want to do my part in making it go away to the greatest extent possible. I'm not socialist, but I want everyone to be very much equal, and I want it with conviction. I see that as coming from my Libra Mars. I am very much opposed to how the world works, how society works in general. I strive to be different (Aquarius Stellium) because I know that conforming to a society like today's will lead to no progress. What do I do as far as this goes? Do I not try to fix the world's injustices? Do I not try to make the world a better place? I am an idealist. I know I am an idealist. And I know that there is no way that by myself and in one lifetime I can make everything "good". But should I not try? Should I not be the first of many? How do I achieve spiritual balance? I acknowledge that there must be darkness for there to be light. I acknowledge that what I want this world to be is almost an impossibility. But then, what should I do?

I see those emotions, but I don't like them. I don't think they're good emotions. They're natural, yes. But I don't like them, especially in myself. I think I'm more critical of myself than anyone else. And although that gives me a great confidence in myself (if I match up to my own standards, which I have for the most part, then it gives me a lot of confidence in myself), it also makes me self-conscious. It makes me not want to feel all of those emotions. Even though I know it's natural to feel them, I also feel that it's natural to not want to feel them. So, should I just accept feeling them as an inevitability? Or should I work towards something different?

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I feel that Scorpio becomes Eagle when it gets past the over cynism or pessimism/negativism caused by coming into contact with the dark ugly side of the world. Eagle would still have things it cannot let go, obsessions, hurts, but it already matured and starts to pay more attention to the emotional and psychological depths rather than what's primal survival/physical instincts. And when Eagle can finally overcome all these hurts and emotions, as well as hidden dynamics of the unconscious, and let go of control and accept things as they are (not the "I give it up" but more of a "I see this is part of the life, that life has both light and darkness, as part of natural order and course"), that it can become Phoenix.

As someone with Scorpio themes in the chart (Aries Sun/Moon/Venus/Mercury/BML in the 8th house, Scorpio Saturn in the 3rd house conjunct IC, and Pluto Scorpio forming a t-square with Taurus Mars in the 9th and Aqua Jupiter in the 6th, plus Scorpio South Node), I can somehow relate to what you wrote. I have always found it hard to truly trust someone enugh to let him/her know my deeper self. I carefully select what I let people know about me, and I rarely show vulnerability. I feel afraid of being judged or hurt, when they see my darker and uglier sides. When I finally learned how to ask for some emotional support from others, it actually felt great, thought I still don't easily trust to open myself to others. My husband is the one who knows me the best and I open up to him almost to the deepest levels, but then he earned it as he is the only one who stayed and accepted my darker sides when he saw it.

As for the darkness in this world, there are times that I find myself reflecting on it too. I have Taurus North Node in the 9th, and my life lessons are to learn to see the light of life in the material plane, to make my peace with the world and reach a higher spiritual awareness. I came to realize that there is beauty and goodness in this world, this realization is something that strikes deep in my soul and core that I can't explain it through words only; but I do know that darkness exists, and sometimes it's so hard to have faith in humans, when we see so much suffering and ugliness. No, I don't think that I have seen it all, I have a stable life as one of the lucky humans living in the 1st world, but whenever I hear or see things about tortured animals, suffering humans in poverty and being exploited... many horrible things that still exists in this world, humans inflicting really horrible suffering onto other human beings or live creatures...
When seeing all this, it is really easy to be stuck in the level of Scorpio from all the 3 levels, to be stuck in the darkness and anger/hate (resonating with only Mars' energy - Mars is co ruler of Scorpio, and Pluto's lower octave).

There are times I also feel bad, as I feel guilty about going back to my own life after hearing about these. Looking at things on a grand perspective, it feels as if humans are too selfish to grow as a collective, as it shouldn't be that hard to fix poverty in other countries yet we are not doing it. I feel that those in power are probably not doing so (actually building sustainable towns and cities for the poor, give them education, instead of just donating food), as they still want to exploit the poor (easier slavery, easier land exploitation, maximum profit).
I have wondered what I could do too, thought I can't be selfless enough to sacrifice my own life for a cause.

Thought I also realized about something... maybe some humans are inherently bad, but many can be good too, and we are certainly much better compared to how things were before. There is goodness in people, and when they are more educated in general, they can achieve a better state as a collective.
This is why I still believe that we as humans, as a collective, can still reach a better world, and keep progressing. It's just, we still need to educate and raise awareness of people in order to achieve it.
Realizing this as brought me more peace over this matter actually, as it keeps me having faith that the light will become brighter in the future.

*edited* Just wanted to add... Also, even thought we are not actively doing something to change the world, what we do can still contribute to small changes, even if they are not grandious actions. For example, what we do as our jobs can contribute to the development of the system. I'm a programmer, and I believe that the applications or IT structures I develop contributes to the advancement of the technological world, which contributes to the progress.
Also, I want to believe that what we say and share, even on the internet, can have an impact on helping or raising awareness of others as well. Sometimes I read things that helps me realize certain things, and so maybe if I share my own things then I can end up helping someone else too (this is also why I believe in the responsibility of expression, not only freedom of it - by the way, a curious fact, Aquarius' traditional ruler is Saturn, and modern ruler is Uranus; Chiron is both Saturn and Uranus in terms of symbolism relation; Aquarius is the sign that comes after Capricorn - this all can show how the balance between Saturn and Uranus, responsibilities and freedom are important. We need to understand responsibilities before we go free, and freedom for the sake of freedom without structure and responsibilities is not good).

quote:

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Would all of those be things that make me introverted? I actually read something that said that the early part of my life would be focused more to within myself (until I was 18 or 19) and that I'd become more extroverted after finding myself entirely. What do you make of that?

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posted February 14, 2014 04:10 PM            

Is it possible to forgo the Scorpio stage? Or is it possible to enter a new life having gotten past that stage in a past life?

It may be because Scorpio isn't quite as prominent in my chart, but I feel as though a lot of my "darker" side isn't kept hidden as much as my passion is. I seem to be very dispassionate until you get to know me or unless you activate my Mars by doing something unjust or saying something untrue. But beyond that, I also just like to keep hidden, and sometimes it is a vulnerability thing, but other times, it's just because I don't want everyone knowing all there is to know about me. My base personality is reasonably consistent, but it has different ways of expressing itself and is very careful about how it displays itself to one person and to another. I think all of me is out there somewhere, but in parts. My parents know a part of me, my friends another part, and my ex-girlfriend a great part, but none know all that the others know.

But is it wrong to hate it? I don't see why it's wrong to hate the darkness. It seems natural to hate the darkness. That's not to say that one should get absorbed by it, that one should see nothing but the darkness, but why should we like it or even be indifferent towards it? Why shouldn't we be angered by it? Why shouldn't we want to do something about it?

I feel guilty as well, but on a more personal level. If I communicate with someone less fortunate, if I see someone less fortunate, it really makes me feel lucky and also makes me feel like I should do something to make the lives of those less fortunate better. With the Aquarius Stellium, I am very humanitarian in my goals.

As for sacrificing my life, I think that would do more harm than good. I can do more for the world alive, both physically and mentally, than I can dead or just about

People can definitely reach a better place as a collective, and it'll actually be easier for us to reach a better world as a collective than as individuals. It's much easier to work the big picture than the small picture. It'll take a long time. Both will take a long time to achieve, but hopefully we'll get there.

Very true.
And yes, what you're telling me is certainly very helpful
(Very interesting connection. So perhaps Aquarius and Chiron are actually very intimately connected. That might show why the energies of my Chiron to Aquarius have such a large effect on me.)

Yes, reflecting on it, I think my Scorpio energies are actually very powerful. (Which is nice to know because my chart at first or even second glance doesn't seem to be influenced by Water at all, but is actually is very greatly influenced by all of the water elements through their ruling planets as well as Chiron.)

posted February 14, 2014 07:24 PM            

It's not really bad to hate darkness, thought it depends on the reason behind the hate. Accepting and acknowledging its existence as natural part of humans doesn't mean we accept letting it continue, that we should try to overcome it. For example, ugly feelings like selfishness, obsessive attachment and jealousy are part of ugly human sides and we can't simply deny their existence, thought on the other hand, it's also up to us to get over them, raise above them, and change things instead of allowing them to continue just coz it happened.
So to answer your questions, it is not necessarily wrong to hate it and want to change it. But if you have a strong hate about it, then you might need to understand why, if there aren't inner insecurities or issues that causes this intense hate and rejection.

As for the humanitarian side of Aquarius, I think that I can get that, it is a noble intention. Your Aquarius Sun is actually in the 6th house, house of Virgo related to using one's talents to serve others in a methodical, perfectionist way, so it can also drive your humanitarian feelings of helping others. Virgo's servicing for others is driven by wanting to serve through one's talents, as in the previous signs/houses, there were realizations of one's identity, values, intellect, feelings, talents and creative self expression. Virgo's highest level is altruism and wanting to give its best to make things work for others.
Also, your 11th house ruler is Moon in Aquarius and conjunct Uranus and Venus. Actually, your Venus is the ruler of your Mars sign too, which can end up fueling your Mars with humanitarian side of Aquarius too.

As for sacrificing my life, I meant giving up my current life style and job and dedicating to a cause, not giving my life through death lol. That would be too extreme!

But I'm glad to hear that you also have faith in humanity. This actually made me wonder if my Aquarius Jupiter in the 6th actually helped my Taurus Mars in the 9th and Taurus North Node reach the lessons to rise above darkness and have faith in humanity too.

posted February 14, 2014 08:41 PM            

Also, if reincarnation exists, then I think this is my last life. I was born the night right before a new moon. My North Node is at the 29th degree. I fit the description of someone who's in their last life perfectly. And I found a lot of indicators in numerology, that I unfortunately forget, which seem to hint towards it. Thoughts?

OK. No, there isn't a rejection. It's as you said, I accept their existence but still want to do something to lessen them to the greatest extent possible.

I think that a lot about me is incredibly humanitarian. I want to better the cause of humanity, and I intend to do so in as many ways as possible throughout the course of my life. I am very driven to achieve my goals as well, so yes, the connections in my chart are definitely present.

I know. That's why I wrote, "both physically and mentally" I meant that killing my body, so actual, physical death or killing my mind, giving up my mental freedom to some cause, would do more harm than good. My mind is very free. It does it's best when it's allowed to be free, allowed to work the way it likes, allowed to take breaks, allowed to sleep and wander and "waste time." When people see me work, I'm sure they find it strange. Getting to work, I usually get up every few minutes, taking a break for longer than I'd been working. My intervals then start to lengthen, and I begin to focus more. I'll sit in positions that would numb most bodies in a couple minutes for hours. I'll work from 3-3 instead of normal hours sometimes. I'll get distracted oftentimes. I'll wake up around noon when able to. The Uranian element is very eminent in my life. And I really love it. As I said, I really like to be different, and whether it is a subconscious manifestation or that I was just born the way I am, I really do find myself to be different.

Btw, I'm not a sociopath who is fully introverted nor do I have any disorders or anything (thankfully). I'm a reasonably normal person who just isn't very normal, if that makes sense.

It's quite possible. I think the Aquarian theme is to better the cause of humanity as a whole. And to do that, Aquarius must believe that it is possible. It is largely objective in the way it acts, and as such would only think that there is hope if there is some sort of reasoning surrounding it and wouldn't act towards a cause unless it thought it was possible.

posted February 16, 2014 12:58 PM            

Could you also interpret my Mars-Saturn Opposition? I'm very unsure about how to interpret it. I've read that it takes away from anger and violence but also drive and passion. But while I can be lazy sometimes, I am very driven and can get work done very fast and very accurately when I need to and actually apply myself. But I find myself to be relatively pacifist, relatively. I am very unlikely to assault to someone, but I will defend myself.

And although I come off as dispassionate a lot of times, if you know me well, then you know that I am very passionate.

I've also read that Mars in a man represents sex drive and fertility and that an opposition to Saturn takes away from both of those.

How does the fact that Mars is retrograde play into it?

I've read this:
You put a lot of thought and energy into being different, avoiding the commonplace with great determination. Your drive to innovate, invent, and find new ways to use things is both well coordinated and intense. You could be an excellent teacher and innovator in areas
connected to electronics, computers, and communications. You may love to travel and are quite
energetic, even athletic. You have a strong urge to be different, to do something different.

And

This is an aspect of bad judgment and of that peculiarly insidious form of bad judgment which
for years may appear to be "getting away with it" until the accumulated flaws in your life topple
over the structure of your existence. If you have this aspect in your chart you will do well to sit
down right now and make a thorough analysis of your life, your position, and your security, to see
whether you are not operating on a major fallacy - a fallacy concerning either your own capabilities
or the nature of the world in which you are working. Somewhere along the line you are making a
fundamental mistake in estimating your own capacity, or the extent of your security.
This aspect will increase the executive talent, make you arrogant, dynamic, forceful, magnetic, able to control other people - often to their own hurt but with the best of intentions on your part.
You will push your affairs too hard, too far, and too fast; get yourself financially out on a limb - and find too late that the limb is cracking. This is the aspect of the plunger who burns his bridges behind him, arrogantly certain of his own luck and his own infallibility until he discovers too late that his structure is a house of cards. In youth you will have had responsibility, or started your
career early, having been precocious in either mental or material matters. You have built up an inordinate amount of faith in your own ability. The danger is that you will push your luck past the safety zone - that either in business or speculation or professional activity, you will trust to your own infallibility once too often and come a cropper. This is the aspect of fortunes made and lost -
of shirt-sleeves to shirt-sleeves in three generations - or in one; of arrogant overlords either of men or of money whose stars rise and set all in the course of a single lifetime. If you have this aspect the good may be reaped and the evil avoided, if you will pause at the height of your success - and deliberately refuse to go any further. But the hypnotic influence of this aspect makes such
withdrawal difficult though not impossible. You must be satisfied with moderation and content to draw down your winnings without waiting for the last roll of the dice.
Finances will bear watching especially with respect to sudden losses due to bad judgment in business matters, and the emotional nature must be carefully guarded against the incursion of factors that make for psychic biases in human relations. Whether other factors do or do not exist, however, the Nemesis of erroneous judgment very temptingly presented, must be watched, and you must make every effort to analyze strictly what you do from a purely rational, logical, and unemotional viewpoint.

Which do you see as most accurate?

posted February 16, 2014 02:38 PM            

It's interesting that you said that you fit the description of someone being the last reincarnation (on Earth I suppose, as there is a possibility of us going somewhere else after "graduating" on Earth), as your chart actually showed an emphasis on humanitary side, plus the patterns it forms and also denoting strong idealism and depth. Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are strong in your chart, they are rulers of the last signs, and They are related to the world and the outside, the higher concerns of this world. Saturn is not making conjunctions, but it's still part of the patterns and in the 8th house.
I'm not knowledgeable in terms of reincarnation signs, but I've read that in our last reincarnations we tend to want to change and impact the world, and I think that it makes sense. Also, Aquarius is the sign that comes before Pisces. In Pisces we return to the unconditional love (Neptune is higher octave of Venus, while in Aquarius there is focus on groups, humanitarian causes, shared ideals and dreams, friendships, collective, and so on.
So while I don't know if your chart shows signs of a last reincarnation, it can be possible. Maybe you can find someone who is more knowledgeable in this area. If there is no one here on LL that can tell, maybe you can try astro.com forum.

It makes sense that you need freedom and can't stand restriction, specially in terms of expression, as you have strong Uranus and Neptune. I have softer Uranus, which is trine my Venus/Moon/Mercury, and I too need some degree of freedom. I'm also unconventional even if I'm normal lol.

posted February 16, 2014 06:36 PM            

Thank you. I think that what you said has furthered my belief.

OK. Thank you. Whenever you get the time is fine. Once again, GL on the interview. I'm sure you'll do great And even though it's easier said than done, try to relax

EDIT: I found this as the most specific interpretation. Someone had their Mars at 5 Libra and their Saturn at 3 Aires. They were born probably a couple weeks after me. But the aspect is still pretty much the same:

Oppositions between these two planets are not good. It suggests that obstacles may come in the path of ambition; on the other hand, you may rush headlong into projects before the moment is right so basically, the timing is usually a little off. You act quickly on some occasions and too slowly on others. Because Saturn is in Aries in its fall position, the desire for control is usually associated here. Mars is in detriment in Libra . The position gives strong argumentative tendencies and the Martian qualities are often expressed through conflicts in personal relationships.
Now, the good thing here is that both of these planets are in Mutual Reception which is very important and has to be taken into account in the opposition. Saturn is exalted in Libra and Mars rules Aries. Thus, they have an exchange status. It brings changes for the better in the life and gives an exchange status, as though back in their own signs. It signifies that you can get out of what you get into, or change places with someone else, compromise an otherwise unsatisfactory arrangement and “return to normal”. Two rulers in each other’s sign always see eye to eye. They share and share alike, so nothing goes awry and even if they break a rule, whatever one gets into, the other gets him out.
Any mutual reception involving the ruler of the ascendant or not, describes a native who loves harmony, will sacrifice something to attain it, is considerate of others & sees eye-to-eye with them; recognizes the spot they are in. Such a person is harmonious with all other people, unoffended by any incompatibility that they cause. You cannot forestall the trouble but you can escape its greatest force; that malefic will not harm you nor are the troubled houses more than you can cope with but you must expect disappointments in those areas.

posted February 20, 2014 07:21 PM            

Saturn in Aries opposing Mars in Libra can show the need to structure and define your self, to be assertive and to know when to take initiative, being in need to be balanced with the need to "focus" on others. Focus is not the most correct word for this, but your Mars want to fight for equality and do things for others, being passionate about taking actions for others, while your Saturn can demand structure in the self. Thought your Libra Mars is in the 2nd house, house of values of self and life on the material plane. Your Mars can be driven by strong personal values. Saturn in the 8th can show lessons from others, of learning through the deeper matters (8th house is the house of Scorpio), so Aries Saturn in the 8th can show lessons of finding your self, structuring your self through the Scorpionic matters.

But this opposition is in the pattern with the trine sextile with MC, Pluto, Jupiter, Venus, Uranus and Moon, so it isn't as conflicting as a sole opposition, and the elements works together.

posted February 20, 2014 08:18 PM            

I see. Thanks.

Hmm... Those all seem right. I'm not sure exactly what it means to find myself yet, tbh. I keep reading that I need to do that, but I don't think I quite grasp what it truly means to find yourself. I mean, I know who I am and what I like, and I'm happy with it to the extent that it sometimes comes off as arrogance (a fault in myself that I've acknowledged but have been unable to fix).

posted February 21, 2014 06:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KingofCups:
Hello! Nice to hear from you. Don't worry about it. I hope your interviews and whatever else go well.

I see. Thanks.

Hmm... Those all seem right. I'm not sure exactly what it means to find myself yet, tbh. I keep reading that I need to do that, but I don't think I quite grasp what it truly means to find yourself. I mean, I know who I am and what I like, and I'm happy with it to the extent that it sometimes comes off as arrogance (a fault in myself that I've acknowledged but have been unable to fix).

Also, is there a single thing in my chart that isn't powerful? Until recently, I thought that my Sun was weak, but then I found that an unaspected planet is actually a very powerful gift waiting to be opened. In my case, it's that I have to work towards some humanitarian goal to open my gift and that I will be successful if I do so because of the unaspected Sun. Thoughts?

---

Hmm I guess that even thought we are very in tune with who we are and even if we are sure of what we know about ourselves, there might be things that we still don't know; and then it can also be about being more assertive and be yourself without inhibitions and becoming independent.

posted February 21, 2014 07:21 PM            

Btw, sorry about all of these questions, lol. If you ever have anything you want to ask or want interpreted, I'm definitely up for it.

But I do have another question because I am really really curious and knowledge-hungry.

posted February 25, 2014 11:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by KingofCups:
Now, THAT makes sense.

Btw, sorry about all of these questions, lol. If you ever have anything you want to ask or want interpreted, I'm definitely up for it.

But I do have another question because I am really really curious and knowledge-hungry.

My Lilith is at 24 Leo. My Juno is at 0 Taurus. My Venus is at 4 Aquarius. My Juno is Square my entire Stellium. My Lilith is Opposite my Sun.
1) What is the significance of the Lilith? (I've wanted to ask you for a while because of your username.)
2) What kind of girl will I end up with? I understand that there's a lot of free will involved here, but this is messed up. They are all in contradictory signs, and I have HUGE tensions with Taurus.

---

Sorry for replying only now, I'm still a bit busy and feeling a bit drained (transit Pluto and Uranus are hitting hard on my Aries stellium in the 8th house lol), but I'll try to reply still as this exchange has been interesting.

Lilith's meaning can have many interpretations, thought I feel that it is often misunderstood and rather associated with all the sexual female fatale image that it can get a bit boring lol. My username is based on my own feeling of identification with Lilith's symbolism, as I have in my chart Black Moon Lilith (the option in astro.com, in the additional objects named as 'Lilith', and appears as a wanning moon with a cross in the charts) in Aries and 8th house conjunct Moon/Venus/Mercury (my core), and these all trine Sagittarius Uranus and asteroid Lilith in the 4th house.
Even before knowing Lilith, I have always felt different from others. I was always independent/isolated, perhaps even a bit dark lol, and I have always identified myself with female heroines rather than princesses. Also, I have always been quite instinctive and intuitive, and not afraid of the darker things or taboos, thought I might worry about external judgments.
Curiously, I also am not good at naturally blending in the female groups lol, thought I have never really had any issues with them, maybe I also don't care much anyways.
But I feel that somehow, in the end I am apart from others for being too different. Having met some friends with whom I could later identify with eased this, thought it's still one of my issues I'm learning to overcome.

This might be my personal analysis, but I feel that Lilith, being a dark symbol doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. Lilith is not the nurturing kind, but she is more in tune with dark sides as she accepts it as part of humans. Society tells us to ignore and repress feelings like jealousy, insecurities, and so on, but Lilith sees them as they are so she understands them better. Thought she won't accept if we use our weakness as excuse of our selfishness.

Sometimes, I've had some friends who were jealous of something of me, but it was never an issue as they were not bad people nor did anything bad to me, and I could understand their feelings so it was never a big deal. Also, some friends would confide in me their troubles and I wouldn't turn away the moment they show their worse sides.
I think that Lilith plus the 8th house allowed me to be able to see certain things deeper, thought being more in tune with dark sides doesn't mean it is negative, I can use what I know and understand to help others.
Also, being more in tune with darkness, I have an easier time to face my own, unless I start to lose my courage and look away. The moment I do that, Lilith will not be nice.

Lastly, another thing I can identify myself with Lilith is that my desire to be acknowledged as my true self is strong, that if I don't feel that I would rather walk away. Positive side is that I can be strong and not put up with manipulation or selfishness, but negative side can be that I worry too much about this, and it generates insecurities in me when I have meaningful relationships.

Lilith was Adam's first wife, but she flew away as she wanted to be acknowledged and not submit, so Adam ended up with Eve. It's not that she wants to be alone, but she just can't accept submission, ending up feeling a void inside her.

Lilith is often associated with the female fatale and sexual being, but a big part of her is not really looked into. It's like reading the descriptions of signs in the internet, they only tell you how Aquarius is aloof and like friends, but only a few rare ones tells you something deeper.

Thought somehow, I feel that the oversexual side might be a negative manifestation of Lilith, like a form of showing how one can be free and have strong affirmation of self and power through becoming overly sexual, but not understanding that this is actually being imprisioned. If one is truly free, she would not need that much acknowledgement.

As for Lilith in men's chart, it can be either how he might identify himself with Lilith's symbolism, or how this image might be projected on women who resembles Lilith to him. For example, a man with hard Lilith aspects in the chart might not like Lilith type women, see them as not good marriage material or crazy, while a man with nicely aspected Lilith can see Lilith type women as strong and independent, someone who is respected and can own her stuffs.

posted February 25, 2014 04:27 PM            

Tbh, I don't know if blending is necessarily a good thing. If it's by choice, if you have the option of blending but don't care for it because you want to retain individually and like freedom, then that's great. I identify with very few people myself, but I can make good conversation with just about anyone. People like me, I think. But I rarely get beyond being acquaintances. And I like this. I feel as though a few good friends, a small number of people who you can REALLY relate to is so much better than a large number of friends who you can kind of relate to.

Just like the Scorpio analysis. Lilith and Scorpio are very alike in that way. Would you think of her as a lesser Pluto perhaps?

I've always liked the darker side of things, so I'm liking Lilith right now. I feel as though the dark isn't bad so much as it is scary. But while darkness can be blinding, so can light. And that's what I'm feeling Lilith is like right now.

Unless it's too personal, would you mind elaborating? I like independence/freedom in a relationship as well (Aquarius, lol), but why would you feel insecure because of that? Do you have a hard time finding balance between freedom and commitment? If it helps, all of your responsibilities are commitments to an extent. And all of these commitments are those that you chose to accept because they come as an advantage to you in some way. A committing resolutionship is the same thing. It is a responsibility, but it comes with great reward, one that you cherish, so while it may be limiting your freedom, it's an option. It's a choice. And it's impossible to live a happy life with taking on responsibility, so try not to worry about it

Go Lilith :P

Lol, yep.

Very true.

posted March 01, 2014 08:00 PM            

I'm not afraid of commitment, but the insecurity I was talking about has to do with being insecure of not being loved as who I am. Lilith would rather be alone than not being acknowledged as who she really is; and for me, I have the urge to be loved and appreciated as who I am, that this can make me feel insecure and worry if the other person really accepts and loves me completely. Insecurities in return can make us over worry and therefore cause unnecessary conflicts or suffering, while not seeing what actually is there.