posted March 17, 2003 04:14 PM              

OK.

Has anyone else gotten the nebulous, not-quite-definable feeling that all of the stuff going on right now is masking something else?
I mean, like there's noise that's drowning out or obscuring something else that's happening or that we should be seeing. I can't answer the question, "How'd you formulate that conclusion?" or, "What do you think is happening?" because I didn't formulate it - it's buzzing about and through me, nor can I say what "it" is...
but it's almost like when you're an inch away from from realizing something, but there's just too much junk going on in your head for it to solidify and take observable form.

posted March 18, 2003 12:11 AM              

So are you back from helping build homes?

posted March 18, 2003 08:23 AM              

We were actually talking about this subject on the trip when I brought up the same, and a teammember of mine brought up this Buddhist quote that applied perfectly to the situation...but I forgot what it was.

posted March 18, 2003 11:03 AM            

Yes, I do have an odd feeling that things are going on behind the veil, as it were.

I'm an NOT AT ALL POLITICAL, or I do my best to not be.. I am woefully uninformed, and I believe to be political one must be INFORMED, however.. I can't get over the feeling that this is all so much smoke and mirrors designed to make us look "over here" while something else is being perpetrated "over there." If that makes any sense?!?

What it is I cannot tell you, although I have been prompted by my guides to have a look at the USA chart. The correct one with Virgo Rising that is!

I hope that helps some...

A

P.S. When I say uninformed I mean that I do not read newspapers and I do not, as a rule watch news on tv... I have a feeling that we are not being told "the whole truth", and so often the news is depressing. Besides, I have enough to do with all of my studies to keep me busy for many lifetimes without having to get involved with the political arena. I leave that for those with that Gift from our Creator(s).. it is not MY Gift this time around.

posted March 18, 2003 01:17 PM            

It is quite natural to feel that things are being hidden from our sight when you consider the bush administration has been doing everything in their power to foster the highest levels of secrecy possible. We haven't seen the like of which since Nixon's era. Some have said it's as if the an iron curtain has descended upon the exectutive branch.

I think alot of this conflict in Iraq is distractionary. It has to do with the corporate scandals that were being brought to the surface right before 9-11. It was being made evident that MANY major corporations were cooking the books and that governmental officials as high up as the Vice-President and possibly even the President had their hands in the dirty dealing.

It could also have to do with the fact that of all the 600+ hijackings that have occured worldwide, September 11th is the only one that hasn't had a thorough investigation yet. There are very powerful people in the US government that do not want to see an independant investigation drag all the facts of the matter to light.
I wonder why that could be?

Yes, the spin doctors are busy waving and yelling to get us to look one way while some sneaky stuff goes down behind our backs.

posted March 18, 2003 02:13 PM            

Seriously, Astrologically - this is a bad time. (My point of view).

We have a full moon which always indicates an opposition, but this time Pisces Sun and Virgo Moon.

Combine that with Saturn and Pluto opposing each other. When I look at my chart for example I see that Saturn (Gemini) is in the 12:00 position, Sun (Pisces) is in the 3:00 position, Pluto (Sag..right smack in the middle of my Sun Conjunct Venus) at the 6:00 position and the Moon (Virgo) in the 9:00 position.

It makes for an interesting graphic. Anyway, I can see the tension building cosmically, but I will stop short of lending any credit to a Presidential conspiracy involving corporations. Enron and the like had heavy dealings with both parties and the investigative team that sunk it's teeth into Whitewater is the same team that rabidly went after and tore open Enron, Tyco and others.

Let's looks over at Cali with Gray Davis. That guy is in a heap of crap to which no other gov has had to deal with and he and the dems in that state stayed snuggled in bed with the Electric Companies.

I think we need to review the top most wealthy senators / congress to see which ones have what at stake in regards to corporations and investments. Senator Kerry, the one who is so outspoken against everything Bush and is so anti-corporation, is worth $450 Million, but he still makes us pay for his $200 hair cuts. Guess what his portfolio looks like? Ted Kennedy? Funny how the majority of the top 15 wealthiest in the congress are not "money-hungry conservatives".

It makes for great sound bites to perpetuate the myth that one party of for money while the other is for the people. It is always easy to rail against big corporate America and chastize the pharmceutical companies for charging so much for drugs. Does any care to take a guess as to how much is costs to get a drug to market?

Oh, just about 10 years and $100 Million. Somehow the company has to recooperate the costs for research and marketing. That doesn't even take into consideration the amount of money that is spent researching drugs that go nowhere.

When was the last time the NIH or NIDA put out any drugs? Never, they get huge grants to work on other things, like testing how whooping cough causes severe coughing. (I used to work in one of the largest state run Uni's that did just that).

Talk about tax-payer fraud. Let's look at how much is wasted on needless studies just to keep fat institutions running and rich government scientists driving BMW's. That is in addition to the money contributed to contract research studies for private companies. I listen to people at these gov institutions laugh about how easy it is to get the research grants and money and no one really checks on it.

But, hey, let's attack the private companies that have to pay out of their own pockets for the testing, human trials, and promotion.

posted March 18, 2003 03:30 PM            

That's not really a valid response, in my opinion. It's distractionary. I'm only left to assume it's because nobody can despute what I've said so they just resort to this tired partisan arguing.

I will restate this *again*. I am not a democrat. I did not like nor trust Clinton either.

Facts- The bush administration is cloaking itself in more secrecy than we have seen in a very long time. http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=6504

Why? It's all I ask.. lets just question the motivations of our elected officials when they start hiding from the public please? It's the only way they can be kept accountable.

Why is Vice President Cheney so evasive when it comes to his dealings inside Haliburton? It seems he may have something to hide.

Why has there been no in depth investigation of the hijackings of September 11th??????????????????

I am increasingly frustrated that when I ask valid questions that might make people rethink who they are defending they are ignored or brushed aside.
Now, if I've done the same to others when valid questions are asked of me, I'm sorry. The only reason I haven't responded to all is because it seems like whenever I make a valid point it just goes unnoticed or these distractionary arguments are the only rebuttle people have.

posted March 18, 2003 08:55 PM            

Undeniably though, another reason I have been ingnoring some questions is because I feel that no matter how well articulated or researched my response, it will probably be ignored or waved off. Not that I am really surprised by that though.

I mean, if even half the points I have been trying to make around here were accepted as legitimate conclusions, it would leave one feeling angry, helpless, and frightened. I know because that's how I feel. And there are alot of people like me out there feeling the same. Because of that, I feel a majority of Americans, even if not consciously admitting it to themselves, take a "what I don't know can't hurt me" sort of attitude and pacify themselves with what the talking heads on the television say.
Talking heads that are more interested in protecting their advertising investors' best interests rather than that of the public, I might add.

It's like the bumper sticker - If you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention.

It's hard to open one's eyes to how corrupt our government (and many other western nations as well) is because to do so throws one's world into upheaval and once your eyes are open, they can't really be shut again.

I guess it may look like I spend alot of time finding articles that make bush look horrible but really, I hardly have to try at all. There's plenty out there because, well,.. he's done alot of horrible stuff.
But then so have most, if not all of our Presidents. Just some more or less so than others.

I'm sorry Alena, but using the classic argument, "America, love it or leave it" attitude does offend me..but it's a common thing people say to me, so I'm used to it. Interestingly though, when someone uses that argument, it gives me insight into their thinking processes.

So, a person can't fathom why someone as dissatisfied as me would want to continue living in this country. That tells me that if that person felt as angry as me about our government, they would just leave. Well, that may be true for some, but not me.
I will fight tooth and nail till the end to protect this land and the people here, even if it means saving them from themselves.

You see, I do love America. With all my heart. This is my home. This has been my family's home for countless generations on my mother's side, being an Alaska native and because of this, my soul is inextricably bound to this land now and forever.
I think Americans have great spirit and endless creative powers and are spledidly diverse. One must always remember - Diversity means STrength.
We are a strong nation.
Sadly there are some in the wealthy ruling elite that would seek to dominate and control that strength and power, consolidate as much wealth in as few hands as possible and destroy the diversity the whole world, creating one homogenous world order...
and recklessly squander our precious earth's resources for quick profits without regard for future generations in the process.
The only problem is that they have wholesome hometown faces and slick spin doctors and Americans, in their innocence, want to believe that we can trust our highest leaders to protect the common man's interest, so they do believe.. for the most part.

Our country is founded on noble principals...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should be open to all. I believe in those principals and for that reason I stay.

Afterall, if rats infest the house, you don't abandon the house to the rats do you?

Lastly, I'm going to open myself up to some attacks, I'm sure because the administrations I'm going to defend are democrats. Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the white house roof. He realized that it was important to encourage sustainable, responsible technologies and energy sources. Then Regan promptly tore them down.

With Gore's prodding, Clinton's administration passed some decent enviromentsal regulations. Bush is now doing everything he can to reverse them and rape and pillage the enviroment.

posted March 18, 2003 11:23 PM              

I do think there is always more than what the media tells us as well.

posted March 19, 2003 01:26 PM            

1. Clinton took away the cattle grazing land on account that he received pressure from the greenies. Fact: The cattle feces helps promote better soil / ground health and also contributes to the vital cycle of the food chain in regards to other animals that sustain themselves from that cycle. One may argue that the cattle are not indigenous to the land, but neither are many things that end up promoting environmental health.
Fact #2: More deadly fumes / organisms spill out in a bad rain storm from bad pipe systems (such as the terrible sewer system right here in good old Baltimore, MD), than what any Dairy farm, feedlot or other livestock facility can put out in a year.

2. Clinton declared much of the land off limits for even recreational use. Fact: This was based on reports from the Environmental agencies that based their claims on complete fabrications, such as was the case in Oregon when they found "lynx" fur in a camping area. It was planted (thanks to animal forensic DNA) by a wacknut that took the fur from a captive animal in So Cal.

3. Clinton lowered the arsenic levels so low that NATURE needs to be fined. Fact: There are naturally occuring heavy metals in our environment. It is one thing to meet a standard that one can comply with, it is another thing to lower the standard to levels where nature exceeds the threshold.

Now, I really am for the environment. I work for a biotech company and test / market environmentally friendly products for the agriculture industry. I also see that there are extremists that will do ANYTHING for the cause while putting people AND the environment in danger. Let's look at the town in So. Oregon that quickly became a ghost town to protect a fish. What happened? Oh yeah, it was complete BS and none of the people were compensated when it was learned that the reasoning was false. I personally know of a family that lost it all. The farm, the house, the marriage.

What about when we impose such strict laws that it causes the company to shut down? Where do you think they go? How about to Mexico where they employ non-Americans (loss of wages) and don't have to adhere to any environmental guidelines? Hmmm, yeah see where I am going with this. If we are all one world and responsible for the environment we just took a big global dump sicne that company is now putting out 10 times the pollution.

Then we have the ELF burning down resorts, cars and companies. Yeah, that's real smart. They are really proving a point with me. Thanks alot for putting out MORE pollution by burning down those cars that the total amount of pollution that would have resulted in each of those cars being out on the road for 10 years. Hmmmmm, yeah rocket scientists.

Here is another thing to think about. Regulations on our crops and fruit. We really tie the hands of those farmers to make sure they can't use anything considered harmful (which even water is toxic in large doses)to the point where they close down. Hey no problem, we will just buy the products from China, Mexico and Chile, where DDT is still used like it's water. Smart move, now we get pesticides in our apple sauce and juice because there is nothing that regulates the products used for such items.

Please feel free to check out the FDA and EPA websites. I am quite familiar with the regulations since I have to work with them.

As far as solar power. I am all for it. Why Ronnie took them down, I have no idea, but a search on the Internet only results in Anti-republican speech, so I don't consider that valid.

I would like to find an article or site that explains where Ronnie was coming from. It the panels were outdated or if they didn't go with the new plumbing / water heater, then I can understand. IF it was an ant-environmental move, then that is totally wrong.

posted March 20, 2003 04:02 AM              

Alena, I think this is the 2nd time I have seen you mention about people are using articles in their response in debates in the forums. In essay writing, which is an ultimate written debate of sorts, it is necessary to use sources and other people’s opinions to back up your argument. It’s totally necessary! I know... years of having to remember quote after quote...ah! I (I can remember them... not just uni ones... I can remember quotes on Akhenaten from my Higher School Certificate! 4-5 years ago!!!) I appreciate everyone’s opinions... including those articles people are posting... I find the reads very interesting.

On the original post... Yes yes yes Proxieme! there is a weird feeling at present.. like its right there, but just out of sight.

Jax

posted March 20, 2003 04:28 AM              

Everybody's grim around the edges, or all over. Go figure.

As for the nebulousness of it all, well there's a fair amount of Neptunian energy going on, isn't there?

We are not getting the "right" news from the media. We are not getting straight answers from governments, certainly not from the Bush administration and the so-called "coalition of the willing". How many people realize that not only Bush and Cheney, but Afghanistan's president are all former oil company executives? This all has the feel of a corporate agenda, or somebody's agenda, behind it. How many realize that at this moment, a total of 88 UN resolutions are currently being ignored -- many by Turkey and Israel -- why is resolution 1441 the one enforced, and why now, and why couldn't they let the inspections and disarmament go on? Why is Iraq sacrificed, especially when North Korea has been detonating missiles over the Sea of Japan, shouting for world attention??

I'm sorry about the politics -- I swore I'd not get going, but I did. We're all on edge for one reason and another, and especially because war is going on right now.

I think that since 9/11, the anthrax, and the Bali attacks, citizens are more sheeplike, looking fearfully toward their leaders and the media for answers. We have stopped asking questions for too long-- we need to speak louder, if our millions of voices of protest have not been heard.

I am going to try to sleep now. Peace and healing to everyone, in the measure in which you need it.

posted March 20, 2003 07:22 AM              

The past 10 years have seen a huge shift in the way we socially structure ourselves - i'm aware i'm a fairly special case spending 14+ hours a day on a computer, but then again its my job.

We are no longer dependant on those media outlets for news. I can just on ICQ or MSN and talk to any random joe bloggs with a PDA and heard the last thing he had to say when the towers fell down - I could be talking to some iraqi who's got a black market net connection and listen to them as they tell me how scared they are, how they dont have a clue whats' going on.

You see....these days we think the govornment is so full of crap because...well, the govornment is full of crap - the only difference being its becoming more visible.

What we're doing even now is fueling this kind of..metaphorical candle - and its called knowledge. So just keep feeding that flame, it's my beleif there's changes afoot no tin-pot dictator (and i'm not talking about Saddam or N.Korea) can stop.

posted March 20, 2003 11:33 AM              

I was talking about "something" super-political.
Buut, thinking about it, Uranus did just move into Pisces, right? That could be it on my end.
(Uranus is at 0d31'36" Pisces
Neptune is at 12d21'2" Aquarius)
And I'm a Pisces Sun with a 1st House Uranus (in Scorpio), and an Aquariuan Moon in the 3rd...
Maye the combination of the above on me has re-wired me a bit (or knocked another >sigh< screw loose).

posted March 20, 2003 12:13 PM              

YOU CAN'T HANDLE WHAT GOES BEHIND THE SCENES!

That's why they hide it from us.