posted January 28, 2005 09:07 PM            

Well, we keep hearing that Bush is being led around by sinister forces within his administration. In spite of reports by people who are normally believed and respected by liberals that Bush is firmly in control in the White House and everywhere else in the Executive Branch. I'm inclined to believe Bob Woodward that Bush is in control and calls the shots.

Well TINK, I wasn't suggesting pistols for two and tea for one under the oaks Merely pointing out that testing the limits of one's willpower long distance is likely to leave one overconfident.

posted January 28, 2005 11:26 PM            

I doubt anyone ever decides to be poor but we all make choices in life, don't we? We can go to school to learn or goof off. We can learn some marketable skills...or not. We can go to work to actually work or take 8 hour coffee breaks and show up for a check on Friday. Our choices will largely determine if it will be rags, riches or something in between.

posted January 29, 2005 12:06 AM            

Good project for those unable to qualify for a mortgage and the interest free loan is a real help. I also like the idea that the prospective homeowner puts in their time on the building and perhaps contributes in other ways too.

posted January 29, 2005 12:11 AM              

In 1978 Plenty volunteers entered a forgotten third world settlement, the South Bronx.
The South Bronx attracted our interest after seeing a television news report about a group of urban pioneers called "Sweat Equity", and their heroic enterprise of refurbishing abandoned housing for the poor in the midst of a burning ghetto.

Koch was able tomarshal sums that dwarfed even the federal govern-ment’s fondest promises. By 1988, committing some$3.6 billion of mostly city-raised capital, Koch hadlaunched what would become the largest municipalhousing construction program in American history(the sum eventually rose above $5 billion). In six years, the city enabled the construction or renovation of nearly 100,000 units of housing. At its peak, the Koch administration was pouring half abillion dollars a year into the effort—more invest-ment in housing than in the other fifty largest U.S.cities combined. City financing for the nonprofitdevelopers flowed through two nonprofit nationaldevelopment institutions, the Enterprise Foundationand the Local Initiatives Support Corporation. It wasa mobilization of private-sector forces, including bothnonprofit and for-profit, on an epic scale. The citywas planner, financier, supplier of vacant or run-downproperty, and sometimes strategic planner—but onlyrarely developer.

******

Republic of Indonesia ,Jakarta

Republic of the Philippines

posted January 29, 2005 12:12 AM              

United Republic of Tanzania

palestine

posted January 29, 2005 12:13 AM              

In sub-Saharan Africa the proportion of urban residents in slums is highest at 71.9 per cent, according to the report. Oceania had the lowest at 24.1 per cent. South-central Asia accounted for 58 per cent, east Asia for 36.4 per cent, western Asia for 33.1 per cent, Latin America and the Caribbean for 31.9 per cent, north Africa for 28.2 per cent and southeast Asia for 28 per cent. Although the concentration of slum dwellers is highest in African cities, in numbers alone, Asia accounts for some 60 per cent of the world’s urban slum residents.

posted January 29, 2005 12:15 AM              

When Nelson Mandela took office in 1994, his government inherited a South Africa devastated by decades of apartheid
CAPE TOWN, South Africa

Republic of Kenya
Nairobi slums like this one are breeding grounds for cholera, because of the poor sanitation conditions

posted January 29, 2005 12:22 AM              

Slums of Vijayawada in Andhra Pradesh, South India.

Kware, Republic of Kenya

posted January 29, 2005 12:26 AM              

I have no comment on the majority of this thread, but some of what you said struck a nerve with me. There are people out there - even here, in the US - who truly do not have choices. From childhood on, it takes all that they can muster to simply survive; if any semblance of choice does present itself, they can't see it, necessarily blinded by the immediate need to subsist.

posted January 29, 2005 12:52 AM            

Lots of people have hard lives. My grandparents farmhouse had no running water. When I was a boy visiting, I carried water from the spring to the house. They worked hard all their lives, lots of work on a farm, but I never heard them complain. My grandmother cooked on a wood stove that she fired up at 5am to get breakfast ready. She lived to be 97.

posted January 29, 2005 12:32 PM            

I've seen my share of people in poor circumstances and helped some in ways meaningful to them in the moment...within my ability to intervene.

I don't believe in giving up...or being a lifelong crutch to permit others to do so either. Understanding, yes, compassion, yes, help, yes but with the understanding that at some point they have to take responsibility for their own choices and take control of their own circumstances.

posted January 29, 2005 07:24 PM              

As TINK said, good for you.

Now all that must be done is for all of your friends to feel the same and then get out there and do something about that.
As it is, there are not enough willing to help, and too many are stuck.

posted January 30, 2005 01:50 PM            

Free market capitalism is not a solution in and of itself to solve the problems of the poor. It requires a supporting cast of representative government along with the foundations of the rule of law and education.

The one thing that is true about capitalism is that capitalism will not work where capitalism is not tried.

My friends are doing something about poverty. We just don't happen to believe that government welfare programs, which soak up more than 70% of the allocated funds to pay federal and state bureaucrats, is the necessary tool. Non Governmental Organizations, NGO's and privately run charities deliver a far higher percentage of allocated funds to those needing assistance and at a far lower cost. Habitat for Humanity is one example and a very good one too.

When government decided to step in and wage the war on poverty....Lyndon Johnson's Great Society, many adopted the idea that poverty was then a problem for government to fix and stopped contributing time and money....except for the greatly increased tax burden to fund it.

Today, nearly 50% of all taxes collected by the federal government go to pay for government social programs, including, but not limited to, social security, Medicare and Medicaid and the bureaucracies which run them.

Clearly, this is not the solution to poverty in America. We are now 40 years into the government process with little or no improvement of the problem of poverty.

15 or so years ago, a study was done which showed that if the federal government did away with the federal bureaucracy which administered the welfare program, a $70,000 check could be sent to every welfare recipient. That showed that about 6 out of every 7 dollars went to fund the bureaucracy.

posted January 31, 2005 09:13 AM            

quote:

---

I doubt anyone ever decides to be poor but we all make choices in life, don't we? We can go to school to learn or goof off. We can learn some marketable skills...or not. We can go to work to actually work or take 8 hour coffee breaks and show up for a check on Friday.

---

Here's some people who dropped out of school. I'm sure they were learning "marketable" skills on their own free time. Oh no, wait, there seems to be only one good and one bad option to jwhop's super plan for success ... perhaps these people were just "goofing off" then. Because that's what people do when they don't go to school. They "goof off". Then, when and if they do go to work, they take 8 hour coffee breaks. Well, geez, now I understand this whole ugly problem of poverty and it's so very simple.

• Albert Einstein: Nobel Prize-winning physicist; "Time" magazine's "Man of the Century" (20th century) (after dropping out of high school, he studied on his own and passed the entrance exam on his second try to the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology)

• John D. Rockefeller Sr.: Self-made billionaire American businessman-philanthropist; co-founder of "The Standard Oil Company;" history's first recorded billionaire (dropped out of high school two months before graduation; took business courses for ten weeks at Folsom Mercantile College [a chain business school])

• Henry Ford: Self-made multimillionaire American businessman; assembly-line auto manufacturing pioneer; founder of the "Ford Motor Company"

• Walt Disney: Oscar-winning American film/TV producer; animation and theme park pioneer; self-made multimillionaire founder and spokesperson of "The Walt Disney Studios/Company; "Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient; Congressional Gold Medal recipient; French Legion of Honor admittee/Medal recipient (received honorary high-school diploma from hometown high school at age 58)

• Abraham Lincoln: 16th President of the United States; (little formal education - Lincoln himself estimated approximately one year; home schooling/life experience; later earned a law degree through self study of books that he borrowed from friends)

• Carl Sandburg: Pulitzer Prize-winning American author (little formal education; later passed entrance exam to Lombard College and graduated)

• Diana, Princess of Wales

• George Burns: Oscar-winning actor/comedian (elementary school dropout)

• Dave Thomas: Self-made multimillionaire American businessman; founder-spokesperson of the "Wendy's" fast-food restaurant chain (equivalency diploma)

• Martin Van Buren: 8th President of the United States (little formal education; began studying law at age 14 while an apprentice at a law firm, later became a lawyer)

• Andrew Carnegie: Self-made multimillionaire American businessman and philanthropist (elementary school dropout)

• John Chancellor: American television journalist; evening news anchorman

• "Colonel" Harlan Sanders: Self-made multimillionaire American businessman; founder-spokesperson of the "Kentucky Fried Chicken/KFC" fast-food restaurant chain (elementary school dropout; later earned a correspondence course law degree)

• Samuel L. Clemens ("Mark Twain"): Best-selling American author and humorist (elementary school dropout)

• Christopher Columbus: Italian explorer (little formal education; home schooling/life experience; went to sea in his youth)

• Davy Crockett: Early American frontiersman; U.S. Congressman (Tennessee Representative); died at the battle of the Alamo (little formal education - less than six months; home schooling/life experience)

• Charles Dickens: Best-selling British author (elementary school dropout)

• Joe DiMaggio: National Baseball Hall of Fame inductee; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient

• Sir Francis Drake: British explorer; knighted in the United Kingdom (little formal education; home schooling/life experience; went to sea in his youth)

• George Eastman: Self-made multimillionaire American inventor; founder of the "Kodak" roll film camera, corporation, and chemical company

• Thomas Edison: Self-made multimillionaire, most famous and productive inventor of all time; invented the filament electric light bulb, phonograph, and motion picture camera; electrical power usage pioneer; Congressional Gold Medal recipient; knighted (France: bestowed the rank of Chevalier, (had no formal education - home schooled)

• Benjamin Franklin: American politician - diplomat - author - printer - publisher-scientist - inventor; co-author and co-signer of the U.S. Declaration of Independence; one of the founders of The United States of America; face is pictured on the U.S. one-hundred dollar bill (little formal education [less than two years]; home schooling/life experience)

• Clark Gable: Oscar-winning actor

• George Gershwin: Oscar-nominated and most celebrated American songwriter-and classical composer; Congressional Gold Medal recipient

• Amadeo Peter Giannini: American-born founder of "Bank of America"

• Cary Grant: Oscar-winning actor

• W.T.Grant: Self-made multimillionaire American businessman; founder of the "W.T. Grant Company" department store chain

• H.L. Hunt: Self-made billionaire American oil industrialist (elementary school dropout)

• John Huston: Oscar-winning American film director-actor (The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, The Maltese Falcon, The African Queen, etc.)

• Elton John: Oscar-winning songwriter-singer; Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee; knighted by the United Kingdom

• Andrew Jackson: 7th President of the United States (no formal education; home schooling/life experience)

• John Paul Jones: Scottish-born American Revolutionary War U.S. navy commander; famous quote: "I have not yet begun to fight." (little formal education; home schooling/life experience; went to sea in his youth)

• Henry J. Kaiser: Self-made multimillionaire American businessman; founder of "Kaiser Aluminum and Chemical Corporation," "Kaiser Steel," etc.

• Kirk Kerkorian: Self-made billionaire American businessman

• Ray Kroc: Self-made billionaire American businessman; founder of the "McDonald's" fast-food restaurant chain

• Jerry Lewis: Actor-comedian-singer-entertainer-humanitarian; knighted (France: Chevalier [or Chev.] Jerry Lewis)

• John Major: British Prime Minister 1990-1997

• William Shakespeare: British playwright; best-selling British author

• George Bernard Shaw: Nobel Prize-winning Irish-born British playwright; best-selling author

• Frank Sinatra: Oscar-winning actor-singer; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient; Congressional Gold Medal recipient

• John Philip Sousa: American composer-conductor (elementary school dropout)

• Zachary Taylor: 12th President of the United States (little formal education; home schooling/life experience)


• George Washington: 1st President of the United States; former general; Chairman of the Constitutional Convention; U.S. nickname: "The Father of Our Country"; face is pictured on the U.S. one dollar bill and twenty-five cent coin (quarter) (no formal education; home schooling/life experience; went to sea in his youth)
• William Faulkner: Nobel Prize-winning and Pulitzer Prize-winning American author; screenwriter (dropped out of high school in second year; later attended University of Mississippi but did not graduate)

• Herman Melville: Best-selling American author and writer of Moby Dick, arguably the greatest novel of all time.

• Liza Minnelli: Oscar-winning actress-singer

• Robert Mitchum: Oscar-nominated actor
• Claude Monet: French painter (elementary school dropout)

• David H. Murdock: Self-made billionaire American businessman

• Florence Nightingale: History's most notable nurse; best-selling Italian-born British nursing book author (no formal education; home schooling/life experience)

• Thomas Paine: American Revolutionary War era political theorist; best-selling British-born American author; famous quote: "These are the times that try men's souls." (little formal education; home schooling/life experience)

• Millard Fillmore: 13th President of the United States (little formal education - six months; home schooling/life experience; studied law while serving as a legal clerk with a judge and law firm; later became a lawyer)

• Will Rogers: American author-humorist-lecturer-actor-entertainer; famous quote: "I never met a man I didn't like."

• Frederick Henry Royce: Self-made multimillionaire British businessman; co-founder-designer of the "Rolls-Royce Motor Cars Company"; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Frederick Henry Royce) (elementary school dropout)

• Edmond Safra: Lebanese-born billionaire banker-philanthropist

• David Sarnoff: Russian-born American radio and television pioneer; given the title "Father of American Television" by the Television Broadcasters Association

• William Saroyan: Oscar-winning screenwriter; Pulitzer Prize-winning American playwright

• Vidal Sassoon: Self-made multimillionaire British businessman; founder of "Vidal Sassoon" hairstyling salons, academies, and hair-care products

• Walt Whitman: Best-selling American poet (elementary school dropout)

• Orville & Wilbur Wright: Aviation pioneers; Congressional Gold Medal recipients

• Grover Cleveland: 22nd and 24th President of the United States; face is pictured on the one-thousand dollar bill, which is no longer printed; (dropped out of school to help family earn income; studied law while serving as a clerk at a law firm, later became a lawyer)

• Irving Berlin: Oscar-winning American songwriter-composer; film story writer; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient; Congressional Gold Medal recipient

• H.G. Wells.......best-selling British author (dropped out to help family earn income; later returned and went on to college)

• Jim Clark........self-made billionaire American businessman; founder of "Netscape"; first Internet billionaire (17, U.S. Navy)

• Jimmy Dean..........singer-songwriter-actor; self-made multimillionaire American businessman; founder of the "Jimmy Dean

Foods" brand sausage business (16, U.S. Merchant Marines; 18, U.S. Air Force)

• Andrew Jackson......7th U.S. President; face is pictured on the U.S. twenty dollar bill (13, U.S. Continental Army; orphaned at 14; little formal education; home schooling/life experience; studied law in his late teens and became a lawyer)
• Leon Uris..........best-selling American author (Exodus, etc.) (17, U.S. Marines)

• Walter L. Smith.....former president of Florida A&M University (equivalency diploma, at age 23)

• W. Clement Stone....self-made multimillionaire (some sources indicate billionaire) American businessman-author; founder of "Success" magazine (elementary school dropout; later attended high-school night courses and then some college)

• Jack London.......best-selling American author (dropped out at 14 to work; later gained admission to the University of California; left after one semester)

• Arthur Ernest Morgan....American flood-control engineer; college president-author; appointed by President Roosevelt to be director of the Tennessee Valley Authority public works project (left high school after three years; later attended the University of Colorado for six weeks)

• Ray Charles.........singer-pianist; Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee

• Cher......Oscar-winning actress-singer

• Maurice Chevalier.... Oscar-winning actor-singer; French Legion of Honor inductee/Medal recipient (note: rank bestowed in 1938

• Pierce Brosnan......actor

• Ellen Burnstyn......Oscar-winning actress

• Raymond Burr.......actor

• Sammy Cahn.......... Oscar-winning American songwriter-composer

• Michael Caine.......Oscar-winning actor; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Michael Caine)

• Glen Campbell.......country music star

• Daniel Gilbert......Harvard University psychology professor (equivalency diploma)

• Dizzy Gillespie.....musician-composer (received honorary diploma from high school he attended)

• Patrick Henry.......American Revolutionary War era politician; Virginia's first governor; famous quote: "Give me liberty, or give me death!" (little formal education; home schooling/life experience; later studied on his own and earned a law degree)

• Peter Jennings......Canadian-born American television journalist; evening news anchorman

• Ansel Adams.........American wilderness photographer; photography book author; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient

• Julie Andrews.......Oscar-winning actress-singer

• Louis Armstrong.....singer-musician

• Brooke Astor........wealthy American socialite-philanthropist-author; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient

• Pearl Bailey........singer-actress; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient

• Lucille Ball........actress-comedienne-producer; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient

• Bill Bartman........self-made billionaire American businessman

• Count Basie.........bandleader-pianist

• Jack Benny.......... comedian-actor-violinist

• Humphrey Bogart.....Oscar-winning actor

• Peter Bogdanovich....Oscar-nominated American film director-screenwriter (The Last Picture Show, Paper Moon, Mask, etc.)

• Whoopie Goldberg....Oscar-winning actress-comedienne

• Benny Goodman.....bandleader-clarinetist

• Lew Grade.........British film/TV producer (TV: The Avengers, The Saint, Secret Agent, The Prisoner, The Muppet Show, etc.); knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Lew Grade)

• Philip Emeagwali....supercomputer scientist; one of the pioneers of the Internet (high-IQ high-school dropout; left school in native Nigeria due to war conditions and lack of tuition money; continued to study on his own and earned an equivalency diploma; later won a scholarship to Oregon College of Education in the United States; transferred after one year to Oregon State University)

• Danny Thomas........actor-producer-humanitarian (actor: Make Room for Daddy/The Danny Thomas Show; co-producer: The Dick Van Dyke Show, The Andy Griffith Show, etc.); Congressional Gold Medal recipient

• Peter Ustinov.......Oscar-winning actor

• Hiram Stevens.......American-born engineering inventor; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Hiram Stevens)

• Patrick Stewart..... actor-writer-producer-director; former captain of the Enterprise on TV's Star Trek: The Next Generation and in films.

• Kemmons Wilson.......self-made multimillionaire American businessman; founder of the "Holiday Inn" hotel chain

• Kjell Inge Rokke.....self-made billionaire Norwegian businessman

• David Puttnam.......Oscar-winning British film producer (Chariots of Fire, Midnight Express, etc.); knighted (United Kingdom: Sir David Puttnam)

• Anthony Quinn.......Oscar-winning actor

• Julie London....... singer-actress

• Sophia Loren.......Oscar-winning actress; best-selling Italian-born author; former model (elementary school dropout)

• Joe Louis..........boxer; Congressional Gold Medal recipient

• Roy Rogers..........actor-singer-guitarist

• Walter Nash.......New Zealand Prime Minister 1957-1960; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Walter Nash)

• Olivia Newton-John.... singer-actress; British-born Australian author

• Rosa Parks.........U.S. civil rights activist-pioneer; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient; Congressional Gold Medal recipient

• Mary Pickford......Oscar-winning actress; early Hollywood pioneer; co-founder of "United Artists Corporation" (little formal education [six months]; home schooling/life experience)

• Sydney Poitier.....Oscar-winning actor (elementary school dropout)

• Frederick "Freddy" Laker.... self-made multimillionaire British businessman; airline entrepreneur; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Frederick [or Freddy] Laker)

• Tommy Lasorda...... baseball team manager; National Baseball Hall of Fame inductee

• David Lean.........Oscar-winning British film director (Lawrence of Arabia, Dr .Zhivago, etc.); knighted (United Kingdom: Sir David Lean)

• Anton van Leeuwenhoek....Dutch microscope maker; world's first microbiologist; discoverer of bacteria, blood cells, and sperm cells)

• Richard Branson.....self-made billionaire British businessman; founder of "Virgin Atlantic Airways," "Virgin Records," etc.; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Richard Branson)

• Isaac Merrit Singer....American sewing machine inventor; self-made multimillionaire founder of "Singer Industries," "I.M. Singer and Company," etc. (elementary school dropout)

• Alfred E. Smith.....New York Governor; 1928 Democratic U.S. Presidential candidate (elementary school dropout)

• Charles Chaplin.....Oscar-winning actor-writer-director-producer; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Charles [or Charlie] Chaplin) (elementary school dropout)

• Sean Connery........Oscar-winning actor; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Sean Connery)

• Jack Kent Cooke.....self-made billionaire Canadian-born American media businessman

• Noel Coward.........Oscar-winning actor-director-producer-playwright-composer; knighted (United Kingdom: Sir Noel Coward) (elementary school dropout)

• Joan Crawford....... Oscar-winning actress; former dancer

• Charles E. Culpeper....self-made multimillionaire American businessman; early 1900s' owner and head of "The Coca Cola Bottling Company"

• Robert De Niro......Oscar-winning actor-producer; knighted (France: Chevalier [Knight] of the Legion of Honor; Chevalier [or Chev.] Robert De Niro)

• Gerard Depardieu....Oscar-nominated actor; knighted (France: Chevalier [or Chev.] Gerard Depardieu) (elementary school dropout)

• Richard Desmond.....self-made billionaire British publisher

• Thomas Dolby........ musician-composer; music producer

• Joe Lewis........self-made billionaire British businessman

• Carl Lindner.......self-made billionaire American businessman

• John Llewellyn.....U.S. Labor leader pioneer; for 40 years until his retirement, president of the United Mine Workers' Union

• Marcus Loew........self-made multimillionaire American businessman; early Hollywood pioneer; founder of the "Loews" movie-theater chain; co-founder of "MGM" studios (elementary school dropout)

• Mary Lyon.........American women's education pioneer; early American teacher; founder of Mount Holyoke College (America's first women's college)

• Sonny Bono...........singer-songwriter-actor; U.S. Congressman (California U.S. Representative)

• Duke Ellington......Oscar-nominated American composer-bandleader; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient

• Ella Fitzgerald.....singer; Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient

• Aretha Franklin....singer; Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee

• Horace Greeley.... American newspaper publisher-editor; U.S. Congressman; 1872 U.S. Presidential candidate; co-founder of the Republican party in the United States

• Thomas Haffa......self-made double-digit billionaire German media businessman

• J.R. Simplot.......self-made billionaire American agricultural businessman

• Robert Maxwell.....self-made billionaire British publisher

• Rod McKuen.........best-selling American poet (elementary school dropout)

Oh yes, let's not forget college drop-out Bill Gates. He's certainly not doing very well now, is he.

Of course, there are many others that could be added to this list as well.
I guess no one ever told them jwhop's one and only formula for success ... and that if they didn't follow his plan for success, that their only other options were to "goof off" and take 8 hour coffee breaks at work. Yup. That's why these people don't fall into that ugly old poverty pigeon-hole.

posted January 31, 2005 10:05 AM              

My Grandfather: Would've been a high school drop-out save for the fact that my Grandmother said that she wouldn't marry him without his diploma. He died with several million to his name.

Hm...wait...maybe he should've continued his education...he would've learned to write a flippin' will so that the government couldn't've claim half of his assests upon death
But that just may have been because he was a Scorpio who couldn't even imagine not living.