posted June 02, 2005 05:17 PM              

This is where media porgramed americans can come and tell me how much I should get out of america as Im slowly geting ready to do so.

posted June 02, 2005 07:09 PM            

MAGUS of MUSIC, why would those in other countries have an opinion on our military forces. Military forces I might add who have defended the lives and property of Europe on two different occasions and right on up until Ronald Reagan collapsed the Soviet Union. We're still there and provided the military muscle when the Europeans couldn't muster the testosterone to take out Slobodan Milosevic right in their own back yard and had to call on Uncle Sam. Utterly pathetic.

Of course, that was war, now wasn't it? Never heard a peep from the so called anti-war crowd; which suggests their outrage at war is selective. So much for the idealism of the left. So much hot air.

BTW, why are you dragging your heels about leaving America? You aren't that far from the border and there are no guards to keep you here. I would be delighted if you formed the "Leaving America Club" and took everyone who thinks like you, all the accidential Americans, along for the ride. Think big! Send Acoustic a club brochure while you're at it.

posted June 02, 2005 07:51 PM              

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This is where media porgramed americans can come and tell me how much I should get out of america--MAGUS of MUSIC

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I would be delighted if you formed the "Leaving America Club" and took everyone who thinks like you, all the accidential Americans, along for the ride.--jwhop

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posted June 02, 2005 08:18 PM            

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This is where media porgramed americans can come and tell me how much I should get out of america as Im slowly geting ready to do so.

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I support MAGUS of MUSIC in his desire to get out of America. It's a free country, now isn't it!

posted June 02, 2005 10:17 PM            

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The difference between me and thee Acoustic, is that I rip Bush for the failures and you rip him for the successes.

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What successes have I ripped on him for?

Let me teach you something about the war. This war isn't about the imminent threat that Iraq was to us, and it wasn't about humanitarianism, at least not in the sense that we're trying to free the Iraqi people.

The war in it's very best purpose was probably designed to end the sanctions we ordained after the first conflict and continued through Clinton. Through these sanctions thousands of Iraqis died, and the terrorists that attacked us gained a seemingly legitimate purpose. Wanting us to remove ourselves from the holy land in Saudi Arabia is one thing, but fighting for the health of an entire arab state is a far more noble purpose. That is why the anti-American terrorist network is so large. Bin Laden was able to point people to the terrible state of health affairs in Iraq, and draw sympathizers. This is the TRUE link between the war in Iraq and the terrorists. The war, at its best, is going to be helpful in removing sanctions, and returning Iraqi infrastructure, so that the people whom America repressed may again be healthy and stop dying at the hands of the sanctions we imposed through the United Nations.

Iraq is neither a strictly Republican or Democratic issue, because BOTH screwed up pretty big, and gave fodder for terrorist networks.

posted June 02, 2005 10:21 PM              

Those in other countries would have an opinion on US pollicies for the dame reasons the entire world once did when Rome was in power, and before htem Greece, Egypt, and evne before that Sumeria.

And this goes out to any who read this not just you numb skull-

America is indeed the modern Rome. We are indeed the top money and millitary power force of the world. We are indeed leading the entire world behind us.

With this much power does indeed come even greater responsability.

We abuse it...Maybe not the comon citicin at all, but certainly our nations govenrment is out of controll. Too start with its out of our controll.

Your Democrats vs. Republicans in all your stupid debates and elections . All a joke. How can so many blind sheep not see ? Democrats or Republicans being in controll of your whiute house, your congress, your silly Supreme court----

Doesnt matter who has the power over it- Dem or Rep- all LIERS. All fulkl of it, All sold there votes to you dpending on what you thought you wanted them to be.

Leftist, Rightist. Black and White. All the same ever forgeting to see into the grey.

WAKE UP PLEASE ! Time to throw a monkey wrench into the final manifestation of humanity's degenerate way of insisting on seeing things "good guy, or bad guy " and lets kill the bad guy quik has dug you into a whole that only a few of you are gona realize exist untill its too late, and you cant get out. Only this time in world history , thanks to your technology your gona drag the entire world into this sh@t whole with you.

By the way geneous- Yeah america helped the world , especialy europe in WW2 and other times. But do you realy think our government even then helped without some very greedy motives invloved. You dont even have to answer that untill your ready to truly think about it budy.

And heres another thing you forget and entirly overlook-

You as a native american stand on absolutly no ground to judge Europeans or anyone else about there hesitations on not wanting to support american pollicy on any war [yes ewven if you were in Nam fruit cake] simply becuase-

They, there parrents, and certainly there grandparrents remembeber what it is to have a war front in there very backyards [truly litteraly] ,,,, you do not. They understand far more then you not only what its like to be sent to a front line, but then unlike you they know all too well the reality of having that frontline hit there back yard, and too many of them come back to an enilated fammly and house.

Americans may have been a little to hasty this time to go into someone elses house, and shi$ where others eat. ?

And by the way,,, alot of europeans are also tired of american occupatioin in the name of protecting them in there own lands.

Stop watching just your american tv, watch some of even theres and you just mite get a small glimps of the bigger picture on there views of "our protecitng them".

And just incase your sugesting Im some sorta happy flowers in your sanfrasico hair sorta hippy who has a problem when force is necesary--------

HELLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO- Did you r3ead anyhting I typed ? Im totaly sugesting americans stop being so willing to sleep through there govenrments slowly encombasing rape and pillage of our own peaple and rise up to take our nation back--

WITH EXCESIVE FORCE, VIOLENT IF NEEDS BE !!!

Stop being lazy and just saying "oh, this legislature is not good so Ill vote him out"

You slept far to long to just vote someone out to solve our problem. All of your nation in every last facet has been for sale to the swine for far too long. There will be no voting the scoundrals out.

Americans stop crying about how all lawyers and pollitions are scum, and start taking the power back that you voted to them with your clenched fist if necesary.

Stop there eternal ball of rubbish about making a good change by voting for the other party- this is how they keep you there slaves, when you think you are free.

And as far as me draging my heels about leeving america--------

I dont know if your aware or not, but we are one of the few countrys stupid enough to let our economy get so messed up by letting everyone and there mother get residency and a job here.

Most other countrys insist on not only a trade skill for residency but also a good amount of cash saved in the bank before being allowed to have even a temporary work visa.

Ill get back to you when I get a chance on what the possabilities will be for your big almighty empire if all who are resisting W's obsurd finnal solution for peace on Earht were to just leave.

WAKE UP jplop and like minds-

America used to be a free country, it only seems to still be for those hwo are still sleeping, and its reality is soon to rear its ugly head for even the most ignorant, only after its too late.

Freedome isnt bought or voted in- ITS TAKEN !

posted June 03, 2005 12:09 AM            

BTW, what ever happened to the lie leftists told that the war in Iraq was all about America stealing Iraq's oil. Just asking...because that absurd lie seems to have disappeared from the lexicon of lies the left endlessly repeats.

1st, this war was about Saddam's 12 years of violations of UN Resolution 687 and 15 UN Resolutions which followed, including SC Resolution 1441.

2nd, the UN Security Council authorized and the UN ran the Oil for Food Program, which UN officials and officials of other nations ripped off. The UN itself also ripped off the citizens of Iraq by taking 11/2% of all the oil revenues...call it a kickback..they called it an administration fee. Under the program, the UN contractors approved food for Iraq some of which wasn't fit to eat and couldn't be sold anywhere else in the world...no one else would buy it. They also approved out of date medicines and medicines which many believe were watered down...which also couldn't be sold any place else. Saddam bribed them...a perfect reason to oppose coalition intervention in Iraq...suddenly, the gravy train stopped running. All those nice records Saddam's people kept and they were meticulous by the way, are now in the hands of the US and British governments. So many records of UN sanctions violations by France, Germany, China and others and so many more that it will be years before they're all translated.

3rd, it was believed by every intelligence service in the world, including ours, as a secret British memo details, that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. The memo talks about what happens if Saddam uses them in the opening hours of the invasion. This memo is a summary of discussions between British and American government officials and their intelligence services. Saddam supported terrorists and could have easily passed off Anthrax, VX or mustard gas to a terrorist group...including al-Queda who had already attacked the US.

4th, ipso facto, the Iraqis are free and have held elections. A new constitution is being discussed and will be presented to the country for passage. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

5th, any Iraqi deaths due to sanctions are laid directly on the doorstep of Saddam Hussein, the United Nations which administered the program and the bribed who took the money intended for purchase of food and medicines for the Iraqi people.

6th, those terrorists you mention as gaining credibility from the war in Iraq had already attacked the United States on 4 separate occasions before the invasion of Iraq and it seems reasonable people would not attempt to make a connection between those attacks and the invasion of Iraq which happened months and years later. Are you a reasonable person? There have been no further attacks against embassies, American warships in foreign ports or against the mainland of the US. What has happened is terrorists, including al-Queda have come out from under the rocks they were hiding under and poured into Iraq where we can kill or capture them more easily...and that's exactly what's happening.

7th, there is absolutely nothing noble about terrorists killing Iraqi civilians. There is no spin which can turn that into anything other than what it is...the acts of cowards. Beyond that, Lebanon is now also free of Syrian forces and has just had an election, Egypt is discussing holding elections with more than one candidate on the ballot, Libya has given up their nuclear weapons components and abandoned the acquisition of nuclear weapons, Afghanistan is free and has had a free election. These elections were resisted by the terrorists and they went forward anyway, in spite of their threats. Ennobling terrorist thugs and murderers is an act of lunacy. Are you insane?

8th, the terrorist networks are not nearly as large as they used to be. 75% of al-Queda leaders are captured or killed along with thousands of other al-Queda members, Baathist murderers and foreign fighters from Hamas, Hezzbola and Islamic Jihad..to name the main groups.

9th, people who have just been freed from 30 plus years of brutal repression and oppression by Saddam Hussein and his insane sons, cannot in any way be said to be in the grip of repression by the United States.

10th, the real screwups in this whole affair are the dedicated leftists who viewed Saddam as a friend. And why not, Saddam is a leftist and the Iraqi government, the Baathist government was named the Baath Socialist party of Iraq. Hussein ran Iraq in the image of Stalin, admired his murderous techniques and copied them...terror personified for Iraqi citizens. You leftists are certainly loyal to each other. The other thing leftists have in common is lying through their teeth. Why tell the truth when a lie will suffice? The truth is that leftists don't give a damn about Iraqi citizens but used their plight for political reasons. That's as low as it gets.

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What successes have I ripped on him for?

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posted June 03, 2005 02:58 AM            

Go read my post again, and this time actually read it.

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BTW, what ever happened to the lie leftists told that the war in Iraq was all about America stealing Iraq's oil. Just asking...because that absurd lie seems to have disappeared from the lexicon of lies the left endlessly repeats.

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What happened to the lie the righties told about WMDs in Iraq, because that absurd lie seems to have disappeared from the lexicon of lies the right endlessly repeated before going to war?

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1st, this war was about Saddam's 12 years of violations of UN Resolution 687 and 15 UN Resolutions which followed, including SC Resolution 1441.

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12 years, and where during that 12 years was the conservative push to depose Saddam? Yeah, I don't remember it either.

posted June 03, 2005 08:06 AM            

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4th, ipso facto, the Iraqis are free and have held elections. A new constitution is being discussed and will be presented to the country for passage. So, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

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We hadn't even discussed this now had we? The reason is probably due to the fact that it has nothing to do with the conversation we're having. Also, I disagree with the notion that a war torn nation with ongoing terrorism is, "free." The fact is that the insurgency is as bad today as it has ever been.

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5th, any Iraqi deaths due to sanctions are laid directly on the doorstep of Saddam Hussein, the United Nations which administered the program and the bribed who took the money intended for purchase of food and medicines for the Iraqi people.

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The United Nations, which is seen by radical Islamists as the collective West lead by the United States. Why would they get that impression? Hmmmm...

With regard to the Oil for Food program, I'm suspending judgment until I know what the actual case is. I spent a lot of time at the site of the independent inquiry, and it sounds as if the US keeps trying to do its own inquiry, which is in turn disrupting the investigation. I was unable to find any definitive conclusion with regard to this matter. http://www.iic-offp.org/index.html

Oh, and I'm not above suspecting this administration of bringing about this investigation in order to:

- Distance themselves from the UN
- Discredit the UN
- Remove US culpability from the minds of would be terrorists

If this is the case, it's actually quite smart, because it means that we, the US, do understand the nature of the terrorist threat, and we're trying to distance ourselves from actions that we took part in as part of the UN. It would essentially mean that this cowboy-looking administration IS actually aware of the Jihadist's beliefs, and is addressing them as a way to try and extend an olive branch.

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6th, those terrorists you mention as gaining credibility from the war in Iraq had already attacked the United States on 4 separate occasions before the invasion of Iraq and it seems reasonable people would not attempt to make a connection between those attacks and the invasion of Iraq which happened months and years later. Are you a reasonable person? There have been no further attacks against embassies, American warships in foreign ports or against the mainland of the US. What has happened is terrorists, including al-Queda have come out from under the rocks they were hiding under and poured into Iraq where we can kill or capture them more easily...and that's exactly what's happening.

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I didn't say the terrorist were gaining credibility from the war. I said they were gaining credibility from the deaths of innocent Iraqis through the sanctions imposed after the previous conflict. You misrepresented what I said there to such a degree I wonder if you even read my post.

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7th, there is absolutely nothing noble about terrorists killing Iraqi civilians.

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There's nothing noble in killing any civilians anywhere at any time. If you think that's what I was saying, you're a much bigger cynic than even I thought. I wouldn't call it the act of cowards, though. You've got to be pretty freaking ballsy to kill people who have nothing to do with you.

I'm not even sure what you mean by this:

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Ennobling terrorist thugs and murderers is an act of lunacy. Are you insane?

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8th, the terrorist networks are not nearly as large as they used to be. 75% of al-Queda leaders are captured or killed along with thousands of other al-Queda members, Baathist murderers and foreign fighters from Hamas, Hezzbola and Islamic Jihad..to name the main groups.

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Yes, we're hunting terrorists. Everyone knows that.

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9th, people who have just been freed from 30 plus years of brutal repression and oppression by Saddam Hussein and his insane sons, cannot in any way be said to be in the grip of repression by the United States.

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This goes back to what I said earlier. It's guilt by association. It's guilt by measure of the influence we wield. Why, with all the influence we have, did we not ask to inspect the Oil for Food program earlier if we are so concerned for the welfare of Iraqi citizens?

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10th, the real screwups in this whole affair are the dedicated leftists who viewed Saddam as a friend. And why not, Saddam is a leftist and the Iraqi government, the Baathist government was named the Baath Socialist party of Iraq. Hussein ran Iraq in the image of Stalin, admired his murderous techniques and copied them...terror personified for Iraqi citizens. You leftists are certainly loyal to each other. The other thing leftists have in common is lying through their teeth. Why tell the truth when a lie will suffice? The truth is that leftists don't give a damn about Iraqi citizens but used their plight for political reasons. That's as low as it gets.

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Which leftists considered Saddam a friend? Is this the imaginary group you keep referring to in your posts?

You consider me a leftist, and I never lie. Again I'll say that I'm a Capricorn, and lying is just against our nature.

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Why tell the truth when a lie will suffice?

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I don't know, but that's a question that could be asked of both this, and the last administration. What's the name of that site Dick Cheney referenced during the VP debate? Oh yeah, www.factcheck.org. Check it out. You can find lies from both sides of the aisle there. http://www.spinsanity.org/ is another good one.

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The truth is that leftists don't give a damn about Iraqi citizens but used their plight for political reasons. That's as low as it gets.

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Ummm...the truth is that the issue of Iraqi freedom for its citizens was on no political party's agenda prior to Sept 11. Don't try to get all high and mighty about this. There was no Iraqi sympathy movement amongst the ranks of the conservative party.

I'll take this a step further, and say that honestly the case wasn't forcefully put out for Iraqi freedom until the course for war was already set. That's pretty late in the game, and that isn't leftists using the Iraqi plight for political reasons.

posted June 03, 2005 07:29 PM              

We minas well stop waisting out time with this particular sh@# witt .

Hes just your average joe all wrapped up and passionate about these subjects [not neccesarily a bad thing], sadly he seems to only get his criteria, research, views, and so called evidence from either american media, or other sources with limited info resources such as himself.

Like my own father and relatives, he can only use the format of communication known as debate. Unlike my father he isnt even worthy of being known as a [what I call] "master debator" !!!
He hasnt listended to a word you or I wrote, he doesnt want to hear it yet. Untill he does want to see through our eyes or anyone elses he will only continue to hear the few words of ours he wants to,,,, then pathetickly atempt to combat them by going off into only the most trivial of subjects.

To anyone else watching whos opinions I would happen to be able to have more respect for wether I agree with you or not----

I personaly believe the Sadam deserved to get his, lose his empire, and maybe even be served a painfull death for even half of what he had done to his peaple. However I also beleive that the way W-boy went about it was foolish , degenerate , and diploamitickly fu%#ed. I do beleive that we may need other powers help one day, biggest empire now or not.
Remember all- my personal views on all of this in the nutshell are that when the time is rite, providence truly ordains it,,,, that taking out a foreign enemy thats a total tyrant, and threat to us and others is completly fine.... but first we should get rid of our own tyrants and problems with our nation before telling another how it should be.

On that note N tone----

this would be a perferct time for anyone residing in Spain or even blah France to chime in. What do you think on such things......

posted June 03, 2005 11:08 PM            

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jplop- remember,,,, atleast by me your typical views and media over coverd opinions would be mroe apreciated somewhere else.

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Because I did read everything you had to say, I realize you really don't have anything to say.

posted June 04, 2005 12:45 AM            

The least you could do is to come up with something new and exciting. Let me give you a pointer. Why not talk about proportional response. See, when the number of terrorists killed equals the number killed in the WTC attack, then any further killing of terrorists is excessive to the offense...even if they did declared war on the US. I call that the school yard theory; you hit me and I hit you back with equal force.

I had hoped I could move on from tweedly dumb but I see you're still stuck there.

Do you know how difficult it is to take you seriously? Very difficult when you attempt to redefine good English words like lie. You are attempting the same reasoning other have tried that because WMD hasn't been found in Iraq....yet, that Bush lied. That just won't fly..no matter how many times you repeat it.

You are so remarkably uninformed that it's near impossible to carry on a discussion with you. For instance, do you know that regime change...deposing Saddam Hussein, has been official government policy, passed by an act of Congress, since 1998? So, when you say freeing Iraqis was dreamed up after the war started, that makes you look foolish.

Do you know what the war resolution passed by Congress actually said, that WMD was the smallest part of the joint resolution of Congress to authorize the President to use military force?

What is it that makes you think I can only bring up subject matter you want to talk about? You are so wrong.

There is nothing more foolish than the belief the US should extend the olive branch to terrorists. The world will be a far better place when every one of them is dead and in a clash between 11th century fundamentalist Islam and western civilization...and that's what this is, 11th century Islam is going to lose that war. However, if you were to volunteer to meet with the terrorists to tell them what good guys we really are, I would have no particular objection. Want to volunteer?

The fact is that now terrorists are attacking and killing their own Muslim brothers and sisters and in the process, they're losing credibility.

posted June 04, 2005 12:48 AM            

You are entirely clueless as to the motivation of terrorists which has absolutely nothing to do with the UN, nothing at all. You actually think it's a sign of extreme manhood to kill people you don't know? That's something new and you should definitely expand that thought.

Don't you think it's a noble act to oppose the US, just good old murderous terrorist thugs protecting their homeland from the imperialistic occupation by the US?

I don't know why you can't seem to get it through your head that the UN was placed in charge of the oil for food program. What about that do you not understand? The US had no responsibility for keeping the UN honest and in my opinion, if the UN is utterly corrupt...and it is, we should frog march every foreign national at the UN to the nearest plane and get them the hell off American soil. That site would make a lovely park, lovers strolling hand in hand, feeding the pigeons, something useful. Guilt by association only flies with the extreme left radical fringe. You know, someone here attempted to tie George Bush to Hitler..through his grandfather. Could there be anything more foolish than that?

You seem to be as deficient in astrology as you are in geopolitics and foreign policy. Now, please tell me where you found the information one's sun sign is an indicator of whether or not that person lies.

Did you know Richard M. Nixon was a Capricorn? Tricky Dick. How does that square with your statement that being a Capricorn, lying is against your nature?

posted June 04, 2005 02:43 AM            

You didn't seem to have any trouble finding the tripe you posted but I didn't ask you for sources, I just refuted it..with the truth. Truth always works, except for the America hating left who never touch the stuff.

You're the one invested here. You're the one who dropped in with your utterly dismissive and contemptuous blah blah blah on what I thought was a pretty mild article, no ranting and raving, just a dispassionate recitation of the writers experiences with the left, a writer who IS a liberal but over the years watched as the liberal left became more and more extreme. The difference between a liberal and a radical leftist is striking. I have you in the latter category, based on everything you've said...and the fact you don't recognize a liberal when you read his writings, instead asserting he's a conservative. To a leftist, anyone to the right of Stalin is a radical right wing ideologue.

Frankly, I don't really give a damn what you think, nor am I attempting to change your mind, or anyone else's mind for that matter. Nor do I intend to supply you with any credentials. I will tell you I have utter contempt for people who live in the US but never have a good word to say about America.

The information is there and it's not made up out of whole cloth or laden with conjecture, innuendo and gossip. Leave that nonsense for the left.

I'm not posting this site for you.

I stumbled across it yesterday looking for something else. But for those who truly want to know what the goals of the radical left really are, who they are, who funds them and what their associations are, this site is pretty self contained and comprehensive. Further, this guy is not a hard edged radical from the right. He is a former communist, raised by communist parents, a guy who knows most of the players because he was closely allied with and associated with them. I just haven't had time to go through the entire site.
http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/default.asp

posted June 04, 2005 05:01 PM              

I am however one of the last of the OLD AMERICAN PATRIOTS. A soul that remembers why and how this very nation was created. An individual that refuses to let the intent of our original constitution, and its 10 amendments. No matter how much so called history class tried to redefine what was intended by it, and tell me how much we should or shouldnt stick to that constitution. I refused to listen... I prefered to find any book,letters, or journals from both average Joes and heroes of the revolution.

Get away from your computer and tv. Get out.. Take a good look around... Maybe not entirly worse case senario yet,,,, but is all of this realy what they wanted us to become ? Maybe some who built this country had lust for such active power at the expense of our own peaple,,, but to the best of my knowledge most of the "founding Fathers" tryed to keep such desires out of there hearts and minds.

Sadly they werent thinking about how there political systems would eventualy deteriate into there current circus sideshows.

My sources of reaserch for the prior statements [I can apreciate the notion of posting the sources for atleast some of our stronger statements] would mainly be- outside my front door. Here in up state NY. The apropriatly named,,, Empire State. All the legislatures completly exploiting every little pollitical subject that comes up... Money spent everywhere for every possable taxable outlet on more often then not crap. Unions [many of ours with maffia ties] exploiting the scene, over charge and work poorly through there contracts with the state and towns.

I see more and more waist of time legislatioin past with everymonth... Most just comming up with more and stricter laws to over enforce.

Last year about this time a cop budy of ours told and warned us about the state granting this county the $ for 500 more occifers to be spread throughout every town, county, and statey precinct. couple months later found it talked aobut in the paper... Then out of no where one day start to notice a whole lot more cops just cruisin around,, and caouple months go by and not just my self but anyone I ask about it seem to see almost a cop for every 4 or 5 civilian cars,,, on almost every last road.... Then come the very agresive and increast pull overs for much less aparent reasons then any year past.

What next ? Far more so called dwi and registration sticker road blocks . Slowing traffic to almost a halting stop ,,sometimes for a few miles is only the least of the problems that happen for many hard working americans next around here next.

I hope I wouldnt have to explain to anyone [even if they dont live here to see it] that these check points are hardly about just finding peaepl with expired stickers so they can then extort there pockets in court. Or to even just get drunk drivers off the road.

I dont want to go on and on with this , so Ill stop now....

posted June 04, 2005 09:40 PM            

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Sorry, if you dispute what I say, you go fish. Why should I do your homework for you?

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You shouldn't. What I'm saying is that since you feel you have all the facts on everything under the sun, then you must have done your homework. I just want to grade it for accuracy, and ensure that you're getting information from reliable sources.

I haven't knowingly gone to any leftist sites since coming here. If I had, though, wouldn't it be akin to you going to conservative sites for your information? What's the difference?

That website discoverthenetwork.org is fascinating. It claims that everything is on-the-level and verifiable, yet it still uses it's author's own opinion (or the opinion of another conservative editorialist) as the basis of factual information. Obviously, I haven't had time to read everything that site has to say, but, like you Jwhop, it throws around words like, "hard, radical leftist," and, "shadow party," as if these are part of the standard Democrat's mindframe. They're not. We're not communists or socialists. This site is just another incarnation of the ever-expanding conservative propaganda machine. It's no different than any leftist site (propaganda machine) you would mention.

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Now onto other things:

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You're the one who dropped in with your utterly dismissive and contemptuous blah blah blah on what I thought was a pretty mild article,

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Yeah, I wrote like three lines, and THIS is what I get?! What does it matter to you if I dismiss an article by someone looking to make money by having a political voice? It shouldn't make any difference to you whatsoever. Remember:

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Frankly, I don't really give a damn what you think, nor am I attempting to change your mind, or anyone else's mind for that matter. Nor do I intend to supply you with any credentials.

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If you don't give a damn what I think, why go on replying to me? If you're not interested in changing my mind, why disagree with me?

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I will tell you I have utter contempt for people who live in the US but never have a good word to say about America.

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posted June 04, 2005 10:18 PM              

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I will tell you I have utter contempt for people who live in the US but never have a good word to say about America.

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Jwhop why don't u stop with the crap already. North America by the way is landdddddddd.........we are talking about the governmenttttttttt.

posted June 05, 2005 09:11 PM              

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sadly he seems to only get his criteria, research, views, and so called evidence from either american media, or other sources with limited info resources such as himself

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On the contrary Magus of Music, FACTS such as what jwhop posted, are not always easily accessible. You usually find it on a side-bar, in small print or broadcasted on a friday or saturday night when America's majority aren't watching. The truth is always hard to find. American journalists in general are huge liberals and take any opportunity they can to push thier personal/ political agendas. It's not thier fault though, most college text books are written by liberals and are taught by liberal professors, so who can blame em? Now THIS is something worthy of fighting against Magus. This is one *bad* in America. But changes are coming and true intentions will eventually become exposed.

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An individual that refuses to let the intent of our original constitution, and its 10 amendments.

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So I will ask you again. What basis do you have to judge America, when you are so clearly projecting your own lack of individuality by reading and watching said news media resources. You seem like the American (if I may call you that) who sits there and watched local news editorials and then repeats them as your own. From what I've read you are nothing more than a bag of hot air. Your perceptions are all wacky, your words are jumbled, confused and, by the way, grossly misspelled~ I do need help decoding you're special language. *honestly*

jwhop- everything you have written is well thought out, concise and unemotional. good reading.

AG, i believe you're not left nor right, but somewhere in the middle. perhaps you just don't know it yet?

posted June 05, 2005 11:08 PM              

lovely,,, I dont research anything as much as I should or would like to anymore. But rest assured that I dont get any of my sources or opinions from tv , or any other media outlet. Maybe I watch a total of 2 hours of tv a month, and by accident at that.

Especialy tv news I gave up on watching years ago. Wether I agreed with a reports stance on something or not, it was indeed more often then not just "liberal" jargon and propaganda. And if it wasnt "leftist" BS then it was conservative BS. Even when I agreed with more "rightist" views I didnt care for their hogwash either.

Thats my biggest point here. I dont want to see anymore Democrat vs. the Republicans crap if I had my way. Both lie, more often then not former lawyers [trained liers]-- and both work very hard to keep americans in the dark, as does ALL MEDIA here.

Voting out liberals or consevatives wont help anyhting or anyone here. I was trying to bring that point up before.

Its too late in america to just vote out the bad apples.

Anotehr action is necesary. By the way who on national tv suggests that ? Not that I would know much about whats on the boobtoob anymore.

Maybe violent revolution isnt the only possable solution . Anyone else have another idea besides using force - by millitary cue [how do I spell that word?]and millitia , or hopelessly trying to vote out scoundrals ?