posted December 20, 2006 03:02 AM            

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You have a skewed vision of Shias and Sunnis...possibly from your courses youve taken.

Im actually a living and breathing Muslim and I do know about my history and didnt waste my money on something I already learned before.

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Clearly you should...

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You still fail to see the entire picture. This is not a war of Shia versus Sunni Muslims. Different Shia groups are killing each other too.

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Now who is in denial...history speaks otherwise...

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This is war is based on politics and affiliation....and who gets what at the end of the day

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As were all wars between Shiia and Sunnis before....

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You make a gross and misleading overstatement by suggesting that Saddams oppression is what kept the Shias and Sunnis from kiling each other. How do you know whether or not that would be the case if another leader was running the country?

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Clearly that is visible since another leader IS running the country and he was POPULARLY elected...

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This also suggests you believe Shias and Sunnis INHERENTLY want to kill each other. Which is complete and utter Bull Sh1t.

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Inherintly as the word suggest implies its in their nature...which like u said is ******** ...but by the fact of being Sunni or Shiia they have been arguing over proper leadership and since Muhammed (PBUH) declared that people must follow what is good for the community, they clash as the Ummah can never be again until they settle their difference...Sunni btw comes from the word Sunnah which means to follow...they follow the actions of the Prophet as Shiites actually wish to trace the descent through his bloodline...Imam --> spiritual leader
Caliph ---> leader of the people...

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Once America invaded, the war started and people took sides, and people began to generalize/stereotype groups hell began to break loose...one attack led to another...it escalated to full blown violence.

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People already had sides...they just got a chance to use that...As for stereotyping sorry...despite the fact that humanity is brutal not enough to stereotype like that in 3 years...i mean America's powerful but not ALL powerful...

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Most international news will do. Id watch out for frontpagemag, racist zionist propaganda or wnd, right wing neocon propaganda. You need to work on your racist mentality...it's really beginning to shine through.

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You really need to reconsider your education...last I checked Islam isnt a race and neither is Shiites or Sunnis...its a religion and sects within a religion...But clearly its visible that you go on insulting people when you are unable to come up with an argument...i said nothing that was racist in fact I told u ACTUAL facts, you look like a fool for not knowing your own religion...Now consider actually reading up...i dont bother with the news in this argument i didnt bring a single current events argument into this...if u re-read u will see that my argument comes from 700AD and 1490s....

posted December 20, 2006 01:57 PM            

In the mind of some, including some Muslims and most leftists, to disagree with them makes one a racist, an oppressor, inconsiderate, non compassionate or...a Neocon.

Of course, these same people would admit one can be a racist, an oppressor, inconsiderate and non compassionate...without necessarily being a Neocon. On the other hand these same people are genetically inclined to believe one cannot be a Neocon without being a racist, an oppressor, inconsiderate and non compassionate.

I've had a ringside seat here and watched the torturing of the English language by those determined to label anyone who disagrees with them as Neocons.

Most have no clue of the origins of the word or even the political group whom they associate with Neocons/Neoconservatives.

Neo...New...meaning they were something else before And what they were happened to be far left liberals. Far left liberals who were mugged by reality.

I don't know of a single member here I would describe as a Neocon. There are some who are solidly conservative. There are also some/many who are far left. The chances of those leftists ever waking up long enough to become conservatives of any strip are remote at best.

Wahhabis or "Salafis"?
What's in a name . . .
by Stephen Schwartz
12/20/2006 12:00:00 AM

WHEN THE DEFINITIVE HISTORY of the global war against Islamist extremism is written, it may well be recorded that one of the psychological victories by al Qaeda and its Saudi financiers and commanders was to convince Western governments and media that Wahhabism, the fundamentalist Sunni sect that is the state religion in the desert kingdom, should not be mentioned by its name.

After September 11, 2001, Islamist adherents on our shores first denied that Wahhabism existed. There was, they insisted, just Islam. Excision of the W-word from Western discourse was a serious hit. Instead, Westerners were told that, in the words of a Der Spiegel writer, Bernhard Zand, the Saudi-backed extremists are "called Wahhabis by outsiders" and "describe themselves as Salafis."

This later led to further comical nonsense as Western commentators split hairs over whether to call the Sunni terrorists in Iraq "Salafi jihadists."

What's the difference?

First, Wahhabis are known as Wahhabis to most Muslims, including numerous Wahhabis themselves. But because of the Wahhabi history of attacks on non-Wahhabi Muslims, the term "Wahhabi" repels many Muslims. Wahhabis therefore often attempt to recast themselves as "Salafis" for the same reason Communists called themselves "progressives." Americans hated the word "Communist" because of the crimes of the Soviet regime, but associated "progressive" with honorable reformers like Theodore Roosevelt.

"Salafi" is, similarly, a respectable term referring to the original generations of pious Muslim scholars who emerged during and after Muhammad's death--and then to a group of 19th century Islamic reformers who wanted to simplify and modernize their religion. But

while the "Salafis" 150 years ago execrated the spiritual Sufis, they did not preach violence.

Although they prefer the "Salafi" cover, Wahhabis throughout the Muslim world refer to themselves by that name when the doctrines of their inspirer are challenged, just as Communists flaunted their affiliations in their own milieu. Still, many Western commentators have adopted the habit of identifying Wahhabis by a palliative name in an effort to be "sensitive."

The Sunni terrorists in Iraq have worked even more linguistic magic on Western media, who have assigned them the title of "insurgents." But too much blood has been shed for Westerners to continue flattering Muslim extremists in this manner.

The Sunni murderers in Iraq are terrorists, not insurgents.

And they are Wahhabis, backed by Saudi Arabia, not pious "Salafis."

posted December 20, 2006 01:59 PM              

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Yet UNLIKE Israeli citizens they carry guns...

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Perhaps technology does have an advantage but you asked whgy do they build up and i showed you why. High tech weapons only go so far when its in your own back yard.

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The issue is attacking civilians.....EVERY ISRAELI doesnt OWN A TANK...nor does every Israeli killed while riding on a bus posses any means of defending themselves...this is a fallacy to argue like that...Arguing that there are no civilian deaths in Israel is just empty and closed minded. Seriously...im not saying Israel didnt kill any civilians but thats mostly because the guerrilas use the people to their advantage.

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I didn’t say every Israeli owns a tank. Like I said you only need very few people when its so one-sided in firepower. War is about how many people you can kill-sadly. When you can, the other side surrenders (japan in WWII for instance). Israel can easily easily kill many more arabs than Arabs could ever Israelis with their puny bombs. Most suicide bombers only kill themselves and maybe one more person. Maybe one other person is injured. End of story, that’s pretty ridiculous if you look at it, compared to the numbers of dead and injured when Israel raids Gaza. And yes every Israeli doesn’t own a tank or have weaponry but theyre all trained to know how to use it when they are conscripted, that is more important. Its not a fallacy and I didn’t say there are NO CIVILIAN DEATHS (avoid the name calling of being close minded)—read my statements instead (roll eyes). I said that since such a large number of Israelis are conscripted theyre should not be considered simply civilians. My point that since they are conscripted thus they are not civilians was directed to JWhops one sided claim. And if you read his argument you’ll see why my counter was such a complete one. My counter argument is only as one sided as his argument. But in reality conscription implies that the citizens are all supporting the army, and in fact they are all part of the army in a passive (even if not active) way. That does say they ARE a part of the army though, and in TECHNICAL terms you cannot deny that once conscripted in the army you are technically a soldier first and then civilian (if duty calls you must leave civilian work and GO to the army, it takes precedence). Now you might compare that to Egypt and I would even admit that in egypt, yes, all adult males 18-45 are soldiers even if they are not in the army, because Egypt doesn’t even have indefinite conscription only 1-3 year army service for all adult males. Still all Egyptians RECOGNIZE that the adult males are soldiers first and civilians second if called upon in war. Any country that has that policy makes in for that specific purpose. By saying that its not so, you’re defeating the purpose and the explicit law that Israel has created. Like it or not, they are conscripted (majority, not all) and that makes them a part of the army. And if the guerillas use people to their advantage, then Israel will let them do so and attack? It doesn’t make sense, guerillas don’t use ALL the civilians that Israel kills to their advantage. And what about the Israeli raids of Gaza after suicide bombings where there is no guerilla hiding there, or the Israeli raid of Gaza and Ramallah after the Lebanon war (LOL) when there is NO Hezbollah members in Ramallah, its so hilariously disjointed. If the Israeli govt can even pretend there was a single reason for that raid than they are just lying, because there is no hard evidence, there is not even any military evidence. And this is not a one time thing, it’s a once a week thing really.

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This has nothing to do with my argument...no where did i condone it...though one may kinda appreciate the fact that people should be a LITTLE bit smarter and realise hey if ur firing a gun in war times you gotta be very careful...

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...entering a bus full of people and blowing oneself up is certainly NOT the same as being trained in an army...

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Yes combat experience makes you a more experienced soldier but the training and the weaponry make you a soldier--someone willing and able to fight and kill.
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There u go...u just made my point...weaponrly and a will to kill make u a soldier...end of stor

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posted December 20, 2006 02:47 PM            

DayDreamer, you only created this thread to start up another fire. You can't handle peace, you never spoke out against the president of Iran declaring Jews needed to be wiped off the face of the Earth or that the Holocaust never happened - YET.... you compare Muslims to being rounded up like the Jews.

Get your story straight, quit with this constant hate speech. You pointed fingers at Juni just because she is what you would consider a soft target because she doesn't get ugly like so many of us here have done. Lioneye is NOT carmab, which was explained to you repeatedly but you can't seem to get it through your head.

EVERY one of your posts is negative and hateful. If you hate us Americans so much, why do you post here? I think that is about as sick as someone that can't tolerate Muslims going on to a Muslim site just to condemn them.

You bet there is a growing distrust of Muslims in this country. Citizens see how easy it is for an extremist to take out their own people /kids on a school bus and wonder when it can happen here.

When people, like on this site, argue more about me asking if the twirp Iranian pres spoke on behalf of most Arabs than about calling for the extermination of Jewish people, that causes US to be alarmed.

Others will bury their heads in the sand due to political correctness, but most of us will question the actions. Some here would have others believe it is proper to placate the few angry Muslims we have on this site by not questioning sensitive issues.

DayDreamer, how can you call anyone a biggot or a racist when you are MORE than guilty for those very same crimes?

posted December 20, 2006 04:18 PM              

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Really...and im sure your more knowledgeable than my professors, who were Muslim btw...thats a bit arrogant of you dont you think?

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Your professors are one source of knowledge. No human is the end all be all of knowledge. They learned from someone else - thats how knowledge is passed down.

I dont have to pay a university to take an Islamic course in order to learn about Islamic history. (I'll admit ive taken one and it was a bird course because I already learned what was being taught...nice refresher though).

Islamic lectures, Sheikhs and Imams and Islamic history books just fine. And yes I know the history of Shia and Sunni formation and rivalry.

There are division and conflicts between Shias and Sunnis and that's a given (as there are conflicts between any group that differs...but that doesnt mean they kill each other over it)

Your error is that you believe this is the REASON Iraqis are killing each other.

The escalation of violence in Iraq into a full blown civil war is not at all like the history you keep refering to at the time of the Kaliphs and in the other times Shias and Sunnis fought over religious differences.

There are countless factors that led to the civil war in Iraq...for some Shia-Sunni difference may fuel division..but that is not the REASON.

The American invasion of Iraq was the precursor. Not only that, it was the Coalition forces and pro-war govts that fostered and created the chaotic environment that lead to the deepened divisions and violence there today.

In the last few centuries for instance - and yes believe it or not before Saddam's time there were barely conflicts between Shias and Sunnis and none recorded in the Iraqi history books at the magnitude of violence we see in Iraq now.

They are NOT fighting over the POLITICS OF RELIGION. This war is not over the order of the Kaliphs or the minor differences in which both groups practice Islam. To have a war over that would be un-Islamic anyways.

Why isn't there a Shia-Sunni war in Pakistan where there are Shias and Sunnis living togehter? Oh let me guess...Musharraf is opressing them, LOL. How about Afghanistan? How about India?

Let me make this clear for you one more time:

The point is that the Shia-Sunni differences are not the root cause of the war and are not what initiated the blood bath. The root cause and the ones who initiated it are the American gov't and forces...by invading and mishandling and full out destroying the social structure and security of that country. When there is no law, no law enforment or enforcers but intruders creating a war amongst the people that will lead to divisions and eventually a civil war.

posted December 20, 2006 04:28 PM              

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You bet there is a growing distrust of Muslims in this country. Citizens see how easy it is for an extremist to take out their own people /kids on a school bus and wonder when it can happen here.

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That doesn't make much sense to me... I could understand a fear of extremists or suicide bombers, but not a fear of Muslims at large. Of course everyone fears extremists, violent people, criminals (and terrorists are just another type of criminal). But to say that this group and Muslims are closely connected is a little bit of a generalization. The fact that fear is then leading to distrust, which develops to resentment (and hatred), it is sad that a religion that holds so much in common with Christianity, and whose believers have for centuries before this coexisted peacefully, now feel the need to hate each other at the individual and societal level.

My mom always says that she remembers the Pan Am flight that was hijacked in Karachi, Pakistan. One of her friends' brother was killed on that flight. It was hijacked by Jordanian terrorists in a Muslim country (Pakistan), actually Pakistan is the only 'muslim' country, (Islamic Republic of Pakistan), the rest of the middle east is 'The Arab republic of ' yadda yadda, or Iran, reinvented itself as the Islamic republic after the revolution (its not originally an islamic state). Terrorists who claimed to be Muslim terrorized other Muslim citizens of another Muslim country--for long after people feared flying, and feared terrorist incidents. But they didnt hate or fear all Muslims at large--because they understood that that was a select group of extremists. Same goes for the Israeli Jewish citizens who were terrorized by the national christian brotherhood (or whatever its official name is), which conducts suicide bombings in Israel. Israeli Jews do not consider all Christians crazy for doing that--they think the Christians which did do this were extremists.

I was reading a book on the Crusade era and noted that in both the Jewish and Christian versions it is mentioned that the Christian crusaders locked Jews and Muslims inside Solomons temple in Jerusalem and set it on fire, let everyone burn to death. They tried to kill every Muslim and Jew in Jerusalem at the time by doing so. Im sure there are hundreds of examples of such terrorism, but to generalize it to an entire religious sect denotes ignorance.

I do not have any objection if people fear terrorists or extremists, but to fear and distrust Muslims as a whole is scary and dangerous--because there is a huge Muslim minority in the US that pose no threat to the nonMuslim US citizens. In fact, they have contributed to society, stood alongside congresspeople, helped search out extremists in their mosques, participated in interfaith reachout, paid tax dollars (and the muslims that come here are usually the creme de la creme of the educated professionals in their own respective countries), and respect the US govt. In fact most Muslims voted for bush at least the first time around and many did vote for him the second time around as well. Even though I disagree with that (I did not vote for bush), I dont see why Americans would fear these Muslim citizens, or Muslims at large. To say all Muslims are violent and brutal is such a big mistake--two Muslims won the nobel prize this year, Pamuk from Turkey and Yunus from Bangladesh, but no one seems to care about POSITIVE Muslim contributions int his world, or in this country. It seems like all the energy is focused on negative acts.

posted December 20, 2006 04:41 PM            

Think of how Muslims on this board have reacted to statements that Jews should be wiped off the face of the Earth and how Iran will take down the US. Did I hear any defense for either the Jewish people OR Americans from many of our Muslim Knowflakes? Nope.. just constant complaining that I asked if the twirp represented the sentiment of the Arab people.

posted December 20, 2006 04:42 PM              

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Get your story straight, quit with this constant hate speech. You pointed fingers at Juni just because she is what you would consider a soft target because she doesn't get ugly like so many of us here have done. Lioneye is NOT carmab, which was explained to you repeatedly but you can't seem to get it through your head.

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Read before you post lies. I never made any hate speeches.

Juniperb is a soft target? Is that how you view her because I sure never did. I included Juniperb in this thread because of some of the things shes posted and some of the things she's also failed to post. I was just trying to figure out her intentions in some things.

Im not trying to defend Ahmadeijen or however you spell it but he NEVER said he wanted to exterminate the Jews. You're either lying, misquoting him or have your self convinced of propaganda.

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DayDreamer, how can you call anyone a biggot or a racist when you are MORE than guilty for those very same crimes?

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You fail to show me how Im bigotted or racist. Do you think that because Im anti-war? Yes Im against the American govt adn forces in Iraq. Im a humanitarian. Yes I have a problem with the history behind the formation of Israel and the conditions Palestinians have to live with now. And where have I stated I deny the Holocaust? Just because I post some of the possible intentions of the Iranian president's conference and speeches (which are wrong and the same tactics used by some American and Israeli govt officials and leaders too) does not make me a racist or biggot.

posted December 20, 2006 04:49 PM              

You said its natural that they will distrust Muslims because extremists do crazy things.

I asked what the relation between extremists and Muslims is.

Is it natural for me to hate all candy if skittles are bad?

Some Muslims are extremists. Not all. So why should distrust of MUSLIMS be natural if EXTREMISTS are the ones doing this? Like you and I both said.

I am asking what the connection is between them that makes the justification of hating an entire religious sect, and that too, the second largest religious sect on the planet and the first largest growing one.

And yes I did STRONGLY condemn Ahmadinejad and his comments and actions. What do you want me to do, go and assassinate him? Lash out at people here or cuss them out? Im sorry that is not my style. I like reasoning and rationale. Ahmadinejad is stupid and racist, and yes I admitted that. WHAT IS IT you are asking me to do ? Write a sixty page essay condemning him?

I dont understand you at all.

And yes I did point out your arab/persian mistake because it was a mistake. If you could accept you made a mistake this whole episode would be over. Not only did you make a mistake that four people pointed out, and can easily be proven to be a mistake by all sources on the internet, but in fact you then went on to blame me for trying to divert the issue when I had already ADDRESSED IT. READ MY PRIOR POST ADDRESSING AHMADINEJAD PLEASE.

posted December 20, 2006 06:10 PM            

You constantly spread your hate like a bad rash on the forums- YET you have the gall to post what you did about me on the FFA thread. LOL...

What you continue to do is sad. When everything dies down, you continue to start with the racism- such as by calling several of us out for now reason at all. You even bashed on Juni who has never been accused of the crap you continue to bash her about.

posted December 20, 2006 06:53 PM            

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Most have no clue of the origins of the word or even the political group whom they associate with Neocons/Neoconservatives.

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Thank u Jwhop i have been meaning to say that

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Not true, Israel has shown time and again that its military and weaponry muscle can kick Arab @ss.

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But thats the thing with terrorist attacks on civilians, it doesnt matter how big ur army is or wat technology u possess, everyone becomes an enemy.

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ou have realistically got to accept that Israel has no military threat from the Arabs

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For now that is true...but it isnt their military thats the threat.

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Most suicide bombers only kill themselves and maybe one more person.

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posted December 20, 2006 06:53 PM            

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I said that since such a large number of Israelis are conscripted theyre should not be considered simply civilians

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And i said i disagree because If you are unarmed and arent currently surving in the army it doesnt matter what experience u have ur still a civilian.

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My counter argument is only as one sided as his argument.

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Thats the issue...just because someone is one sided doesnt mean ur supposed to change ur argument to them. State exactly what you believe regardless of who ur speaking to...though i understand Libra ASC here too i do sometimes find myself guilty of same tactic. Tried to cut it down on GU though. I appologize the closed minded wasnt an attack on you merely a statement of the argument.

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It doesn’t make sense, guerillas don’t use ALL the civilians that Israel kills to their advantage.

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Actually they do...their tactic is as such that every person a military sees MAY in fact be the enemy and if you use one or two civilians to your advantage the army gets paranoid. Better safe then sorry and thus innocent people die. Rebels are tyrants its what they are...their only goal is personal power and very few (note i didnt say all) have the people's interest in mind. They are sacrificing the well being and stability of the government so they can get control.

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And what about the Israeli raids of Gaza after suicide bombings where there is no guerilla hiding there, or the Israeli raid of Gaza and Ramallah after the Lebanon war (LOL) when there is NO Hezbollah members in Ramallah, its so hilariously disjointed.

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since i disagree with the tactics of the current leadership i wont argue there.

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They are seriously more dangerous if you consider their lifetime value

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But dangerous to who...combatants are trained to fight other combatants...if your a mother and you worry if ur 10 year old's bus ride to school will be his last every day then no suicide bombers are dangerous. Mothers from both sides want this as over as possible. Most people are actually willing to cooperate and live peacefully with each other as long as the violence stops.

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You can't handle peace, you never spoke out against the president of Iran declaring Jews needed to be wiped off the face of the Earth or that the Holocaust never happened - YET.... you compare Muslims to being rounded up like the Jews.

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Thank you Pid...seriously i hate all these people comparing every situation to the Holocaust...news flash its not!

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If you hate us Americans so much, why do you post here? I think that is about as sick as someone that can't tolerate Muslims going on to a Muslim site just to condemn them.

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Some people just enjoy trouble. There are a few Muslim-haters that go on Muslim sites to insult them...God knows why...and rather than ignoring such idiocy some like-minded fool is bound to get caught up. Personally I think we do have intellectual arguments here without ideological warfare. SGA for example may dissagree with us but she usually bothers to back up her statements with actual information and historical facts...some people choose to point fingers like in the McCarthy days and scream bloody murder...Thank God for the days when people realise that man was a loon...

posted December 20, 2006 06:54 PM            

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You bet there is a growing distrust of Muslims in this country. Citizens see how easy it is for an extremist to take out their own people /kids on a school bus and wonder when it can happen here.

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Once again great minds think alike...i said something among those lines myself

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Islamic lectures, Sheikhs and Imams and Islamic history books just fine. And yes I know the history of Shia and Sunni formation and rivalry

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I fail to see how an imam lecturing on anyt6hing could be considered as rounded knowledge...you should consider the writings of Ali Shari'ati who claims the people should interpret all for themselves...And also Tariq Ramadan, he might enlighten you.

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There are division and conflicts between Shias and Sunnis and that's a given (as there are conflicts between any group that differs...but that doesnt mean they kill each other over it)

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And yet they do...I want to know what SGA thinks on my argument that Shiites and Sunnis were killing each other before Saddam...

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Your error is that you believe this is the REASON Iraqis are killing each other.

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Ur error is not listening to what Im saying...what im saying is Iraqis are killing each other for power. Sunnis opressed Shiites (who happen to be the majority in Iraq) and now the Shiites get some power which scares the Sunnis hence terrorist attacks....

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The escalation of violence in Iraq into a full blown civil war is not at all like the history you keep refering to at the time of the Kaliphs and in the other times Shias and Sunnis fought over religious differences.

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And there were many such civil wars. Mawiyya (sp) dynasty had much to do with having a civil war with Ali and he was killed for compromising...

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There are countless factors that led to the civil war in Iraq...for some Shia-Sunni difference may fuel division..but that is not the REASON

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The reason is power...plus if your telling me that a foreign nation can come into a country and cause a civil war by simply taking out the leader shows the civil war was long looming and had the leader died that would have followed anyways.

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The American invasion of Iraq was the precursor. Not only that, it was the Coalition forces and pro-war govts that fostered and created the chaotic environment that lead to the deepened divisions and violence there today.

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Oh please they deepend nothing...they were deep enough they simply gave room for them to do as they please.

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To have a war over that would be un-Islamic anyways.

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Yes well isnt that the problem...

posted December 20, 2006 06:54 PM            

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Why isn't there a Shia-Sunni war in Pakistan where there are Shias and Sunnis living togehter?

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Cuz the ratio isnt large enough to have a war...cuz one side doesnt opress the other...and many other such logical reasons...

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How about Afghanistan? How about India?

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Not that many shiites in India...also Indian Muslims (sunnis) adhere to a different school of law (madhhab) than those in the arab and north african lands (maliki vs hanafi) and they vary largely in their interpretation of proper way of governance.

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The point is that the Shia-Sunni differences are not the root cause of the war and are not what initiated the blood bath

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erm....yes they r

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When there is no law, no law enforment or enforcers but intruders creating a war amongst the people that will lead to divisions and eventually a civil war.[/QUOTE}

Which is precisly what I said about Saddam keeping everyone in check. I didnt say Americans arent responsible for the fighting...they indirectly (by removing Saddam) gave way to warring factions who have been itching for a fight but didnt want to be strung up on a hook.

[QUOTE]There are different groups of Sunnis and different groups of Shias and mixed Sunni-Shia groups...each aligned with different political parties and wanting some different things for Iraq.

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There are many factions of Shiism...and if you dont think violence has been part of their history you should consider the celebration of Ashura in the mourning of the death of the Imam...clearly violence plays a big role (no they arent violent...violence is just part of their history because their leaders got killed and they fight for power...wouldnt want to be misunderstood around here)

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That doesn't make much sense to me... I could understand a fear of extremists or suicide bombers, but not a fear of Muslims at large.

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posted December 20, 2006 06:55 PM            

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Terrorists who claimed to be Muslim terrorized other Muslim citizens of another Muslim country--for long after people feared flying, and feared terrorist incidents. But they didnt hate or fear all Muslims at large--because they understood that that was a select group of extremists.

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They understood because they are Muslims themselves...here is a scenario and alien race from planet X invades earth and shoots a bunch of cities down...now the general population of Planet X could be gentler than the Dali Lama and more peaceful than Ghandi but you better believe everyone on earth will think Planet X aliens are monsters...why? Because they do not know better...its a radical example but sadly this is exactly how it is, as if we r from different planets...

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Same goes for the Israeli Jewish citizens who were terrorized by the national christian brotherhood (or whatever its official name is), which conducts suicide bombings in Israel. Israeli Jews do not consider all Christians crazy for doing that--they think the Christians which did do this were extremists.

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Sorry u grossly miscalculate there because on average a Soviet Union jew (almost all) will tell you that Eastern Orhodox Christians are all evil and all out to get them and in general a horrible people not to be trusted...So to say they do not think all Christians are extremists is not true...its what their experience shows...

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To say all Muslims are violent and brutal is such a big mistake--two Muslims won the nobel prize this year, Pamuk from Turkey and Yunus from Bangladesh, but no one seems to care about POSITIVE Muslim contributions int his world, or in this country. It seems like all the energy is focused on negative acts.

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Most certainly...and to generalize all Muslims into one category is a sad misconception for all come from different backgrounds, with different schools of thought and philosophies and should be treated as such. Took my Islamic Political Thought final, yay its over and done with. Hard class but very interesting!

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Think of how Muslims on this board have reacted to statements that Jews should be wiped off the face of the Earth and how Iran will take down the US. Did I hear any defense for either the Jewish people OR Americans from many of our Muslim Knowflakes?

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I will second Pid on this one...i know of many Jews studying Islam and yet you are the ONLY Muslim i know studying Judaism (though my bf did try to read the Torah). Its just an interesting fact that given this post i can respond (and did) how sad it is that such things still occur today and yet I havnt seen many Muslims on LL openly object to the Holocaust in Iran issue (once again other than you love )

posted December 20, 2006 06:55 PM              

I'll probably stop replying back.

Have a field day.

posted December 20, 2006 07:15 PM              

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Ur error is not listening to what Im saying...what im saying is Iraqis are killing each other for power. Sunnis opressed Shiites (who happen to be the majority in Iraq) and now the Shiites get some power which scares the Sunnis hence terrorist attacks....

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You realize Kurds are Sunni...And in that case Sunnis Arab Baathists oppressed Sunni Kurds. You cant call this a Sunni-Shia war because it's not.

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The reason is power...plus if your telling me that a foreign nation can come into a country and cause a civil war by simply taking out the leader shows the civil war was long looming and had the leader died that would have followed anyways.

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Ummm hello, thats just what happened. They invaded and set up the conditions for the civil war to happen.

Simply taking out the leader DOES NOT show the civil war was long looming.

Because Saddam was not just so simply taken out of power. Remember America INVADED and started a ALL OUT WAR in Iraq. Hint hint: violence breeds violence.

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Oh please they deepend nothing...they were deep enough they simply gave room for them to do as they please.

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Read above...ie. Violence Breeds Violence. To not see how America's invasion and war deepened rifts you would have to be blind deaf and dumb. Go talk to a professor on the Iraq war, s/he may do a better job clearing things up for you.

posted December 20, 2006 07:21 PM            

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You realize Kurds are Sunni...And in that case Sunnis Arab Baathists oppressed Sunni Kurds. You cant call this a Sunni-Shia war because it's not.

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U accuse ppl of generalizing and yet u do it. DID I SAY THAT ONLYYYYY Sunnis and Shiites oppress each other? No...Yes they opressed the Kurds...but clearly it wasnt the Americans doing...or are u gonna blame them for that too?

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Simply taking out the leader DOES NOT show the civil war was long looming.

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If a civil war occurs right after then clearly it does...

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To not see how America's invasion and war deepened rifts you would have to be blind deaf and dumb. Go talk to a professor on the Iraq war, s/he may clear things up for you.

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posted December 20, 2006 08:56 PM            

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Think of how Muslims on this board have reacted to statements that Jews should be wiped off the face of the Earth and how Iran will take down the US. Did I hear any defense for either the Jewish people OR Americans from many of our Muslim Knowflakes? Nope.. just constant complaining that I asked if the twirp represented the sentiment of the Arab people.

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Ok, I don't think there was ONE person who praised his fanatical views and SGA who corrected you on the mix-up of ethnicities condemned his fanatical views. Is it because people chose not to say he's a ******* ******* or "what a **** face" that you're boiling over? Everybody's different you know, not everyone flies into belligerent (sp?) rages over everything horrifying and dispicable. Notice that people didn't get belligerent when you mixed up the ethnicities? They looked at it objectively and simply corrected you. No one really complained until you got bent out of shape about it (being corrected that is). And if you look at it anyways, the correction gives you the answer to your question. (Does he represent the Arab sentiment?)