posted February 28, 2007 11:36 AM            

Anyone could find the same information easily by simply entering "6th Commandment" in the search window and reading from the sites.

The correct translation is "Thou shalt not murder".

Murder has a specific meaning. The intent to kill a specific person is inherent in the definition and that specific person is innocent of wrongdoing.

Accidental killing is not murder...the intent to kill that person is missing.

No military commander who orders troops into battle is guilty of murder...or manslaughter..neither by the biblical 6th Commandment or by the laws of the United States.

Those accusing the President must also accuse the vast majority of congressional members...including most of the democrats who initiated the Joint Resolution of Congress to use military force to remove Saddam and voted for it.

Those accusing the President must also accuse the United Nations and member nations of the UN Security Council who voted to send troops to liberate Kuwait.

Those accusing the President must also accuse Commander Corruption and the heads of European nations who sent troops into Bosnia to stop a genocide...but especially Commander Corruption..aka Bill Clinton who ordered the 78 day bombing campaign from high altitude which killed not only combatants but innocent non combatants as well.

Now, try to get a grip on reality.

Oh, and stop attempting to misuse the Bible to prove kooky theories. It's particularly repugnant coming from those who don't believe a word they read there in the first place.

Oh, and stop attempting to redefine words to uphold leftist crackpot theories of jurisprudence.

posted February 28, 2007 11:35 PM            

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are you now saying that the Muslim terrorists are true Muslims....

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Maybe, maybe not. They misrepresent Islam but that does not mean they are not Muslim. To be Muslim means to surrender to the will of God...if they surrender to what they THINK is the will of God then they could very well be Muslims just misguided.

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the Zionists are true Jews?

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Yes Zionists are true Jews...im a Jew and Im a Zionist...so? All Zionism means is that you believe the Jewish state of Israel has the right to exist. Which I do.

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And the same for Bush too. I don't believe him to be a good Christian at all...sorry.

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I don't believe the Pope is a good Christian either because he was part of the Nazi youth, so what? Who made you, me or anyone else the deciders of whats good or bad Christians?

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The correct translation is "Thou shalt not murder".

Murder has a specific meaning. The intent to kill a specific person is inherent in the definition and that specific person is innocent of wrongdoing.

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Nuff said..

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No military commander who orders troops into battle is guilty of murder...or manslaughter..neither by the biblical 6th Commandment or by the laws of the United States.

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Okay then so its settled. There is no more to argue over cuz Jwhop pointed out the facts.

posted March 01, 2007 07:37 AM            

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Maybe, maybe not. They misrepresent Islam but that does not mean they are not Muslim. To be Muslim means to surrender to the will of God...if they surrender to what they THINK is the will of God then they could very well be Muslims just misguided.

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Yeah but that's not the point: what I meant is other Muslims do reserve the right to call them bad Muslims because of their actions. Oyyyy!

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Yes Zionists are true Jews...im a Jew and Im a Zionist...so? All Zionism means is that you believe the Jewish state of Israel has the right to exist. Which I do.

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Errr, I thought Zionists were a little more radical than that...but each to his/her own I guess.

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don't believe the Pope is a good Christian either because he was part of the Nazi youth, so what? Who made you, me or anyone else the deciders of whats good or bad Christians?

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Ok, I don't agree with alot of what this Pope has said (because I can think for myself) but what a poor example of you to use. He was just that...a youth. He was conditioned and brainwashed by adults who should've known better (mainly the Nazis) and probably had to be de-programmed afterwards. The difference is that Bush is a grown a$$ man so yes, I do reserve the right to call him a Bad Christian because of his abominable actions.

Anyways, I still stand by what I say...he and his administration are no better than mass murderers to me because they initiated an unneccesary war that has turned a despot's already horrible state into an even worse one of death and destruction...basically a mass graveyard. And I agree with AG, it will be sad if when one day Iraq finally does stabilize that Bush will be credited. What a world we live in...ugghhhh.

posted March 01, 2007 02:09 PM            

Perhaps the most chilling aspect of this is that there could be a terrorist mastermind born of these murders. A child wouldn't have the context for why the war started, so he or she could develop an unfettered hatred of the U.S. backed by the murder of his/her family. Isn't that a nice prospect?

posted March 02, 2007 12:10 AM            

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: what I meant is other Muslims do reserve the right to call them bad Muslims because of their actions.

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Technically yes, but I disagree that they have such a right because then they are singling out which sin/act makes someone a bad Muslim which is obviously subjective. Thus anyone can say someone else is a bad Muslim because of different actions. BUT since Mohammed believed that everything should be for the best of the community if the MAJORITY believes that certain actions make someone a bad Muslim then yes. But to me only God can decide that.

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Errr, I thought Zionists were a little more radical than that...but each to his/her own I guess.

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Well Zionism is a belief that Jews deserve a state in the land known as Israel. Everything else ranges on a radical spectrum i guess.

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Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941,

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A youth yes...brainwashed...eh it wasn't really a cult...and he was 14. Id like to think that at 14 people are capable of distinguishing right from wrong and what they believe in.

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probably had to be de-programmed afterwards.

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Who says he was de-programmed? Who says he was programmed in the firt place

[qouote] I do reserve the right to call him a Bad Christian because of his abominable actions.[/quote]

Such right belongs only to God. "vengence is mine" He said and "let the one with no sin cast the first stone". Mohammed called for the betterment of the community in Islam and thus the majority can decide what is right. In christianity the right is determined by God and his word...thus saying who is a bad christian is reserved for God...u can only claim how well someone follows the scripture...and we can argue on which sin is considered heavier...but as we already established Bush isn't guilty of murder thus on judgement day he shall stand next to the rest of us.

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What a world we live in...ugghhhh.

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I love it how this world is getting bashed for the fact that Bush would get the credit rather than say other horrible things that happen. Surely who gets credit for what isn't what makes this world so bad.

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Not to mention the fact that there are currently service members on trial for committing murder in Iraq. Would they be on trial if this war had been better executed?

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Ermm yes...because murders kill its what they do. Which means they went outside the combat rules and commited premediated murder...which they would probably do anyways because they are murderers. Blaming Bush for the atrocities that individuals commit is as insane as blaming the chief of police for one cop shooting someone for the heck of it.

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Perhaps the most chilling aspect of this is that there could be a terrorist mastermind born of these murders.

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None of these could be blamed on Bush...otherwise EVERYONE would be a murderer.

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A child wouldn't have the context for why the war started, so he or she could develop an unfettered hatred of the U.S. backed by the murder of his/her family. Isn't that a nice prospect?

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Surely the child doesn't get that conditioned to hate within 4 years...and if it does then it could be undone just the same.

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People are going to hold Bush to account for the decisions he's made. It doesn't matter whether or not you choose to see him as a murderer, or as a Christian

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I don't disagree with that. You are in fact very right. BUT this argument started when I asked which commandment did Bush break (someone pointed out how he broke the commandement that says THOU SHALT NOT KILL) so i asked how so...hence the discussion...has nothing to do with the decisions he has made, just that people get off the topic. Debate team lol debate team...im a stickler for rules

posted March 02, 2007 01:59 AM            

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Id like to think that at 14 people are capable of distinguishing right from wrong and what they believe in.

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So you can judge someone of a religion, but no one else should? Interesting. (Perhaps you should understand that everyone judges regardless of whether they intellectually believe that they should.)

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Ermm yes...because murders kill its what they do.

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That's a possibility, but not a certainty. If they weren't put into Iraq, then they wouldn't have ever come across the series of events that lead to the unpremeditated murders. Not only so, but the soldiers superiors aren't getting off without reprimand either.

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Blaming Bush for the atrocities that individuals commit is as insane as blaming the chief of police for one cop shooting someone for the heck of it.

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I agree with you that each person is responsible for their own actions alone. I disagree with you that Bush isn't responsible for what happens to our citizens or our service members as a result of his decisions. Granted if one of his subordinates kills someone in cold blood, he shouldn't have to stand trial along side that person and defend himself against murder charges. He will, however, be tried in the court of public opinion for any crimes committed by his subordinates on his watch. Every President goes through this. It's par for the course.

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None of these could be blamed on Bush...otherwise EVERYONE would be a murderer.

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Oh, they absolutely could be blamed on Bush. Whose decision brought the killer to Iraq?

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Surely the child doesn't get that conditioned to hate within 4 years...and if it does then it could be undone just the same.

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Ever lived anywhere where there are gangs? Do you not get the idea of retribution killing?

Osama is a water sign, how much conditioning do you think it takes for a water sign to get conditioned to hate out of the feeling that something they loved has been stolen from them?

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BUT this argument started when I asked which commandment did Bush break (someone pointed out how he broke the commandement that says THOU SHALT NOT KILL) so i asked how so...hence the discussion...has nothing to do with the decisions he has made, just that people get off the topic.

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When you send thousands of people off to kill whether you consider lawful or otherwise, you're going to be called a killer, because you facilitated it. It's that simple. That wasn't enough for you, but that IS the answer.

posted March 02, 2007 07:22 AM            

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When you send thousands of people off to kill whether you consider lawful or otherwise, you're going to be called a killer, because you facilitated it. It's that simple. That wasn't enough for you, but that IS the answer.

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Roosevelt, Churchill, Hitler ... just a bunch of killers, right? Can they all be categorized as murderers as well?
American Indian tribal leaders, European settlers, Colonial Americans and British troops, just a bunch of killers. Confederate Generals, Union Generals, poor old Honest Abe even ... just a bunch of killers. Cult leaders, Police Chiefs, just a bunch of killers.

Seriously?

I guess we owe a lot, good and bad, to a bunch of killers and/or murderers.

******

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Yes but that doesn't include religion since no one person can define what a "proper" follower of said religion is, no one can say someone isnt.

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Slippery slope there. We can say someone isn't a good Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, etc. all we want. Can we validate our opinions as true? More importantly, can you change someone's mind about whether or not they are a good representative of their religion/beliefs? We can judge others all we want but it won't necessarily make a difference, to them or in the grand scheme, especially to people radically inclined towards violence aimed first and foremost at innocent people (worse yet when those innocent people aren't considered innocent at all by the perpetrators) in the name of their religion/God/whatever no matter how far they've strayed from what the rest of us might consider a true representation. People commit atrocities for things they believe in ardently, no matter how wrongly we believe their take on religion to be and no matter how wrongly "God" will judge them in the end. That's the danger in fanaticism. What the rest of us think doesn't matter. (edited: Rephrased that last sentence for clarity.)

posted March 02, 2007 07:49 AM            

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Technically yes, but I disagree that they have such a right because then they are singling out which sin/act makes someone a bad Muslim which is obviously subjective. Thus anyone can say someone else is a bad Muslim because of different actions. BUT since Mohammed believed that everything should be for the best of the community if the MAJORITY believes that certain actions make someone a bad Muslim then yes. But to me only God can decide that.

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Ah we Shua...forget it!!! The MAJORITY of Muslims do believe their actions are bad....are we making generalizations here??

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Such right belongs only to God. "vengence is mine" He said and "let the one with no sin cast the first stone". Mohammed called for the betterment of the community in Islam and thus the majority can decide what is right. In christianity the right is determined by God and his word...thus saying who is a bad christian is reserved for God...u can only claim how well someone follows the scripture...and we can argue on which sin is considered heavier...but as we already established Bush isn't guilty of murder thus on judgement day he shall stand next to the rest of us.

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I still disagree. Bush calls himself a Christian....so I will say he is a bad one over and over and over. Because we have been taught what obviously makes one a bad Christian and he's the one who damned himself.

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youth yes...brainwashed...eh it wasn't really a cult...and he was 14. Id like to think that at 14 people are capable of distinguishing right from wrong and what they believe in.

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He was still a youth and yes, I would consider that whole damn thing a cult because of the twisted beliefs espoused to the people. And also because: do you know what could've happened to anyone in Germany who went against Hitler?

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Who says he was de-programmed? Who says he was programmed in the firt place

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Hello?? He was a youth that in itself says enough...My God. Do you think he would've been elected pope if he did hold such beliefs? (Him now being a Catholic, the group that Hitler also persecuted should be a clue to you) I don't think he would've been and actually I find that pretty offensive that you would suggest so.

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So you can judge someone of a religion, but no one else should? Interesting. (Perhaps you should understand that everyone judges regardless of whether they intellectually believe that they should.)

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Obrigado, Obrigado, Obrigado! (Thank you)

Yeah, since when did you reserve the right to call him a bad Christian while you say I cannot call Bush the same?

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I love it how this world is getting bashed for the fact that Bush would get the credit rather than say other horrible things that happen. Surely who gets credit for what isn't what makes this world so bad

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Ummm, excuse me...my problem is that he will get credited for something that he didn't do (probably doesn't have the brains to...sorry). Because we all know that its a snowball's chance in hell that Iraq will finally stabilize while he's in office.

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Roosevelt, Churchill, Hitler ... just a bunch of killers, right? Can they all be categorized as murderers as well?
American Indian tribal leaders, European settlers, Colonial Americans and British troops, just a bunch of killers. Confederate Generals, Union Generals, poor old Honest Abe even ... just a bunch of killers. Cult leaders, Police Chiefs, just a bunch of killers.

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The difference is that some of the people you mentioned did not start unneccesary wars that result in civilians dying. Most did not invade other places unneccesarily. As for the ones that did.....

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Osama is a water sign, how much conditioning do you think it takes for a water sign to get conditioned to hate out of the feeling that something they loved has been stolen from them?

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Yes a slippery Pisces one at that. If he could turn from a Rich Saudi PlayBoy (that was an adult) to what he is today...then I think it is possible that the pope could've been conditioned as a 14 year old.

posted March 02, 2007 07:49 PM            

I don't know that AcousticGod was referring to everyone who kills, like serial killers for example. He stated, "When you send thousands of people off to kill whether you consider lawful or otherwise, you're going to be called a killer, because you facilitated it" referring, I believe, to commanders of any sort of "troops".

I wouldn't personally wouldn't throw Lincoln in the same pot as Hitler but, again ... just working off the words AcousticGod presented. They both did send lots of people off to kill, after all.

posted March 02, 2007 08:14 PM            

I agree that there have been times when leaders have sent people to stop wars, and that those people probably wouldn't have words like 'murderer' thrown at them. In this case, however, the United States hastily initiated a war, which may have been unnecessary, and certainly wasn't popular with much of the country and much of the world. Bush being called a murderer is probably one of the most trivial things one could be concerned with in regard to this war.

posted March 02, 2007 11:36 PM            

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So you can judge someone of a religion, but no one else should?

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Exuse me? I wasn't judging anyone I was merely asking why the preference in judging.

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If they weren't put into Iraq, then they wouldn't have ever come across the series of events that lead to the unpremeditated murders. Not only so, but the soldiers superiors aren't getting off without reprimand either.

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IN my opinion the superiors can only be blamed for not watching them carefully enough. And while it is true they wouldn't have come across the series of events that gave them such opportunity but in all honesty people who commit such actions usually commit other horrible things or that energy manifests itself in other ways.

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I disagree with you that Bush isn't responsible for what happens to our citizens or our service members as a result of his decisions.

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Granted if one of his subordinates kills someone in cold blood, he shouldn't have to stand trial along side that person and defend himself against murder charges. He will, however, be tried in the court of public opinion for any crimes committed by his subordinates on his watch.

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I agree with the first statement 100%. As for the second one its a little iffy. While we do tend to blame the leaders for the offenses of their subordinates because we hope they are good and strong leaders (whcih i do not believe Bush is) I don't think it is too fair to blame him for crimes commited that he was not aware of. Yes he should have been aware of them BUT its not always that easy or simple.

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Whose decision brought the killer to Iraq?

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Well i simply disagree with this mentality. Its okay if you do not but I do. There is an old confucianist (corrent me if im wrong) belief that if you save a man from drowning and he goes on to murder someone, you are in fact responsible because if it wasn't for you the victim would not be dead. I personally do not follow this school of thought, if you do thats okay too.

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Osama is a water sign, how much conditioning do you think it takes for a water sign to get conditioned to hate out of the feeling that something they loved has been stolen from them?

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THats SO biased of you...my dominant planets are Scorpio and Cancer...despite being a Gemini im a Scorpio moon conj Pluto...so believe me water signs aren't as easily "conditioned" as Earth signs like to believe...lol that was very Capricorn of you. My Capricorn moon bf always accuses me of being to easily controlled by emotions. Tsk tsk

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Seriously?

I guess we owe a lot, good and bad, to a bunch of killers and/or murderers.

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Eleanore, im sorry but may I ask for your placements? Loveee what you write. JUST love it

posted March 03, 2007 12:25 AM            

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And also because: do you know what could've happened to anyone in Germany who went against Hitler?

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That is a very different angle and I will agree with it aboeve the other things you stated before.

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Do you think he would've been elected pope if he did hold such beliefs?

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I am not judging him I am just asking why do you choose to judge one person as bad for actions that another person also commited yet forgive one and not the other? Its a curiosity thing. I don't personally think the Pope is a bad person, he can very well be a great one. But i am just saying how do we with such confidence say "Bush is a bad Christian he damned himself".

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Yeah, since when did you reserve the right to call him a bad Christian while you say I cannot call Bush the same?

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I didn't call him a bad Christian I am simply asking the same question you just did, why did you call Bush a bad one and not him?

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my problem is that he will get credited for something that he didn't do

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Then i agree

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But I think there is a huge difference between someone being damned to eternal damnation (or what we call "sinning" or breaking comandments) for taking a life to protect thousands of innocents as opposed to killing innocent people on purpose for whatever reason.

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Precisly what i mean.

posted March 03, 2007 12:25 AM            

******

BornUnderDioscuri
Actually, I'm a bit skittish about sharing astrological placements and such. Somehow or other people like to toss them in your face. Basic stuff I don't mind sharing ... Sag Sun, Aries Moon, Asc. in Aquarius. Were you looking for something else? I'll try to be accommodating.

posted March 03, 2007 12:27 AM            

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As for a fourteen year old ... I don't think all understand but I think many do.

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I dont know I think we underestimate 14 year olds. Maybe cuz it wasn't so long ago for me (5 years) but i think i understood a lot of things back then.

posted March 03, 2007 12:43 AM            

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I am not judging him I am just asking why do you choose to judge one person as bad for actions that another person also commited yet forgive one and not the other? Its a curiosity thing. I don't personally think the Pope is a bad person, he can very well be a great one. But i am just saying how do we with such confidence say "Bush is a bad Christian he damned himself".

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Again, how are you comparing the Pope to President Bush? The Pope didn't initiate an unneccesary war that has caused the death of thousands. He was a youth when that whole Hitler business was around hence he cannot be held responsible....he was conditioned. And also, as I mentioned above: who knows what could've happened to anyone who went against Hitler and the Nazis?

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I didn't call him a bad Christian I am simply asking the same question you just did, why did you call Bush a bad one and not him?

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You may not have said that he was a bad Christian but you said he wasn't a good one meaning that you must've meant he was a bad one. Its all right here:

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don't believe the Pope is a good Christian either because he was part of the Nazi youth, so what?

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