posted March 29, 2007 01:44 PM              

It is like eye witnesses at an accident scene. Police officers will tell you that people seeing the same accident take place will describe what happened completely differently than the other eye witnesses. Each one will see it differently. It's all due to our perceptions of the events.

We just can't seem to admit here that we all are at fault. Depending on which side of the political spectrum we are on is how we will choose to see it. It's selective memory. Selective rationale, a selective perspective. It would serve us all well to attempt to be more objective.

Of course there will be disagreements. If you put two people alone in a room together for two minutes they will find something to disagree about. That is normal. But it doesn't have to be reduced to what amounts to verbal abuse and character assassination.

There is way too much of that kind of crap in our society today ( the Jerry Springer mentality ) and it has largely been perpetuated by this particular administration. Anyone who has disagreed with the policies of this administration or questioned things, either in Congress or in the media or the general public, there has been immediate retaliation and an all out character smear on the party who disagreed or questioned things. It's sickening and we all know in our hearts that it is wrong.

Here at GU we will continue to be like hamsters running around the same wheel as long as we cannot admit our own biases, our own fault and take any responsibility for our own actions that have contributed to the toxic atmosphere here on these boards. It serves no one or GU any good to continue to blaming the "other side" for everything. It definitely is not serving any of us to grow as people.

The message that we give other people at LL who might like to give their opinions and present their viewpoints at GU is that their viewpoints are not welcomed if they disagree with ours. Which is why many people at LL do not post here. It is not that they can't "take the heat" it is that they simply choose not to play the blame game or to be labeled or have their character attacked just for expressing themselves. They simply choose not to participate in what Jwhop sees as a "war" here at GU.

posted March 29, 2007 01:55 PM              

It's the principal I am addressing anyway, not the people.

I admit that I am equally at fault and have contributed my own toxicity here at GU.

posted March 29, 2007 02:35 PM            

Almost from the first day I and some others here started firing back at leftists who were lying, slandering and making otherwise personal attacks on Bush and the United States, leftists started whining and wringing their hands.

Seems as though it's not nearly so much fun here when someone is firing back at them.

Your most recent bout with your whining affliction is demonstrative of what other leftists here have said before..Waaaaaa

The effect of all your whining is going to be exactly zip...unless Randall decides otherwise.

You and your leftist friends wanted a war here, you just didn't want anyone defending those you wanted to take shots at. Isis, Pid, lioneye and others here can and some have attested to what happened when they so much as offered different opinions...different from those expressed by leftists on this forum.

Now DO ditch that halo. It's much too big for you.

Anyone who organized and acted as webmaster for a site devoted to backstabbing LindaLand members is definitely not qualified to biitch and moan about personal attacks or attacks on anyone.

And don't think for a minute that many here believe you didn't know and the other KS members didn't know what was going on there. Some of the worst and most offensive language I've seen on the Internet and none of you lifted your little finger to stop it.

It's clear why the KS site was organized. A nice place to gossip about and rip LindaLand members behind their backs. Activities you couldn't and wouldn't have gotten away with here.

posted March 29, 2007 03:26 PM              

Whatever.....Your life, your choice. Perhaps if you did not see the world as a war zone you might have entirely different perceptions of reality.

We tend to create our own realities.

posted March 29, 2007 04:49 PM            

I've made no bones about what I'm doing here...or why.

"My rhetoric is intended to be razor sharp, cutting and inflammatory."

As for my halo Mirandee. I don't affect to be wearing one and I never suggested I do.

Neither do I express a moral or spiritual superiority or attempt to clothe myself in a cloak of "goodness". Nor do I wallow in a pool of phony selective compassion.

But then, neither do I whine and try to summon a support group, or Randall when someone attacks Bush, Republicans, others here or myself.

posted March 29, 2007 08:12 PM              

As has also happened in the past if a discussion at any of the other boards at LL is taken place that deals in some way with politics which disagree with your Republican right worldview you and some of your followers here go over to that board and break up the discussion on that thread by starting an argument there as well.

It's all about control and you might as well admit that to yourself because we all know it.

posted March 29, 2007 09:12 PM            

Or, do you mean going to another forum when someone who is posting on a thread there has dropped my name into a discussion in a negative way hoping I wouldn't see it? That's happened.

Or do you mean when Daf was going off the deep end on FFA making accusations of demon possession by some here?

My experience is that it's you Mirandee and a couple of others who have attempted to control what the acceptable range of discussion is on GU. Some of the rest of us have just gone with the style adopted by leftists....goin with the flow.

How many times have you attempted to get Randall to intervene on your side?

None of the people you've complained about ever has.

I've even seen Juni attacked here. My God, Juni who has never attacked anyone..here or to my knowledge, any place else.

Now, some are busy attempting to suggest Eleanore is biased and Randall is biased. I know there's a range of issues Eleanore doesn't agree with me about and I'm sure some of what I say sounds like fingernails on a blackboard to her.

posted March 30, 2007 07:53 AM            

It doesn't have to be this difficult. I know both sides are guilty of being insulting at times. I KNOW this and have stated it before. Yet somehow people only hear that it's directed at one side. It may seem that way because, for example, in this case, jwhop is under scrutiny for something ALOT of people do in their own ways. So while it sounds like I'm coming to his defense, I'm not exactly. I'm saying if it goes for one side then it must go for all sides. And YES, it would be great if this didn't have to be this way at all. Yet we can't change how people are, no matter how much some would like ... and thank heavens for that.

Now, Mirandee, I see you're actually trying to come to some sort of understanding between all sides here and I thank you for that. So please listen carefully to me and with an open and objective mind. (That's not to say you're not like that, etc. but just making sure that I'm asking nicely.)

The issue has come up that jwhop's posts are inflammatory and insulting. No one on either side is denying that can be the case or that his posts can be seen that way. That is especially the case to those on the opposite end of the political spectrum from him here.

Now please, do me a favor and answer one question.

Is it possible that the consistent posts for years on end here portraying America and/or it's government, leader(s), military, economic policies, etc. in a negative light and the constant suggestions that those who don't agree with this negative portrayal are somehow or other inferior, stupid, ignorant, brainwashed, etc. ... is it possible that this kind of posting can be seen at least as equally inflammatory and insulting to anyone on the other end of the political spectrum, ie. non-leftists, particularly right/conservatives?

Please be honest and keep it to a simple "yes" or "no" response for now and just keep reading.

In all honest fairness, I would have to say, yes. Not just as some hypothetical concept I'm imagining but because the handful of people not strictly "left" around here have brought it up more than once ... and their pleas for less insulting material and/or posting manners were ignored and/or derided.

That's the point that is not getting across, no matter how often it is repeated. Being insulted and being offended are subjective experiences. I could say something offhand and end up insulting someone without meaning to. Likewise, I could say something to purposely insult someone and find the person merely dismisses me.

Now, I understand that people want to gripe about politics or share their truths or whatever. That's fine. No one is saying you shouldn't do so. But you must accept that people will be insulted and offended by what they see as inflammatory and insulting. And as this site tolerates that inflammatory and insulting material being posted by so many people, it chooses to equally tolerate inflammatory and insulting material posted by the other members here, as well. Indeed, Randall has made it quite clear on a number of occasions that GU tolerates more ugliness in general and this is precisely why. The one thing specifically not tolerated here at all is Racist attacks against other members here.

Of course, it would be nicer if nothing insulting or inflammatory was posted at all. But how could that really be? We all have opinions and we will disagree and someone or other is bound to be insulted eventually.

So, yes. I would prefer it if jwhop would keep insults out of his posts. They don't bother me, personally, because I assure you I've heard worse. True, other people find it offensive and that's important. Equally important for me, though, is that jwhop is smart enough, educated enough, well versed in politics enough and on and on that, in my eyes, he only does himself a disservice by lowering himself to using petty insults like "brain dead".

Likewise, I would like to see this place less antagonistic towards right/conservative views, beliefs, etc. and the people who hold those beliefs, no matter how indirect or slick someone thinks they are being with their insults. That would require the majority of people that gripe about jwhop to almost completely abandon their previous methods of posting and return to discussions solely on policy matters, government/politician deeds and words related solely to the political sphere, etc. Ie, no personal insults ... as in, insults pertaining to personal characteristics, family life, private lives, childhood/youth, beliefs or lack thereof, physical appearances, etc. at all about anyone, present at LL or not.

IF EVERYONE on both sides is unwilling to change then I'm sorry but we are at a standstill. The same standstill we've been in for far too long ... that of tolerating everyone's ugliness because WE ALL (or most of us anyway) just don't feel like doing any better for this community.

posted March 30, 2007 08:14 AM            

I support the fact that if one side is allowed to do something, then all sides should be allowed to do the same thing ... while fervently hoping everyone stops doing what we're talking about. That apparantly makes me biased.

The right/conservative minority is always brought up to Randall or the site in general for their "faults" and when I speak up about everyone having the same or similar "faults" then I'm accused of being on the right or a conservative. And, of course, biased.

Same goes for Randall.

Hey, equality ALL around makes us biased. Tolerate everyone's stinking poo instead of just those the majority approves of and you're biased.

I still can't figure out the logic.

I guess it could be warped into bias because the handful of right/conservatives don't cry foul at every opportunity. And there are many opportunities.

But can you imagine years ago when we first encountered each other in GU? Surprise! I'm actually a conservative/Republican or on the right somehow!
Hey, I stand up for "that side" because I agree with all their political leanings. (Others reading this, please note the sarcasm before coming to an "AHA" moment about "finding" me out.)

I need a bigger and more dramatic laughing smiley here as my ribs are actually hurting.

Just going back through GU and really looking at what's gone on and how things have changed would show that these accusers of bias deserve a big fat "F" in deductive reasoning. The real bias lies in assuming that just because someone disagrees with you they must be the "enemy" or at least in cahoots with the "enemy" and, naturally, biased.

Round and round we go. I'd grab for the brass ring but I actually post here because I like the people, learn alot, and like to share/discuss.

posted March 30, 2007 11:54 AM            

Your membership packet will arrive by messenger service within 48 hours.

The packet includes illustrated instructions on the secret handshake, the VRWC recognition signal, an emergency message decoder ring and extended spectrum glasses so you can read the daily instructions from headquarters embedded on the screen during the Hannity and Colmes show on Fox.

posted March 30, 2007 03:14 PM            

____________________________

My answer- YES!!!

When I first came to this site and at the inception of GU, I was put down for being conservative. If I made any comments along a conservative nature or backed any Republicans- the Christian philosophy, I was blasted by several knowflakes. I was called a sheep, an idiot, etc... My ethnicity was thrown in my face and so on.. still I kept on keeping on. I didn't whine to Randall, I took the majority on and soon more conservatives and middle of the road knowflakes(that includes left and right) began to post.

It really ticked off several radical leftest on this site. BUT, that was my earliest exeperience with parts of LL. We used to post in FFA and Astrology, but then GU was created. I came in like most people, searching for knowledge and grateful there was an outlet- but NO, it was dominated not by Democrats or left leaning people, but HARD CORD anarchist promoting radical leftests.

Now we have a mix, but in all honesty, the left dominates and that is ok. I have lived in several areas that were predominantly liberal and never had a problem. What does bother me is when we see one side always calling foul on the other side, without accepting responsibility for their actions.

I am not including the ENTIRE left in that category, in actuality, it is dominant in certain people here that call racism, bigotry or ask for others to be banned because they don't like what they read. Even while they are gnashing their teeth in "anguish" over being called a twit, they have quickly forgotten that they called the other person a Nazi racist that kills babies.

That was the point that Eleanore was making in her conversation examples.

BOTH sides are guilty of personal attacks. We do get carried away yet with some, they are able to find a common ground and get past the name calling. With others, all one has to say is "I am tired of the Muslim extremists murdering innocent children" and it gets turned into a thread in several forums on how two people are specifically racist and should be banned.

I do believe we are getting passed that- slowly but surely.

Still, jwhop started this thread in order to get the leftest knowflakes here to discuss a topic and once again it has turned into a debate on which side is being meaner. (which makes me want to post.. neener neener...) LOL...

The fact that some people won't post here because there are too many meenies is absurd. People don't want to post here because many can't hold their own when it comes to political issues. That may sound mean, but it is a truth. There are many reasons why that is 1) some don't care 2) some are very young and therefore don't know about the political environment 3) some are obnoxious but intelliectually challenged people that make outlandish statements without any facts or the fortitude to debate the facts 4) some believe their way is the only way and if they don't get their way then everyone else is stupid therefore they are above posting here.

Some are actually afraid because they DO think this place will be all love and hugs like SU or FFA / Astrology, only to realize they are entering into discussions, debates and at times bashing.

These people are from BOTH sides. I have seen conservatives post here and encounter TP / Sweet Stars and are then run off. Same with lefties that make comments about one world order or the Bush government falling in step with the zionists to bring down the towers - That may fly on some sites but not here when we do have intellectuals that can hold a debate against the common conspiracy theories.

The difference with LL is that BOTH sides are strong and the webmaster HATES censorship. He will not bow down to the common pressure presented on other "enlightened" sites which serve to only shout down the "right wing".

Whew..... my fingers are tired.

posted April 01, 2007 08:15 AM            

Oh no! I've been found out! My many attempts at blending with the "liberal" crowd as reflected in my voting history, my support of many of their issues, my letter writing/petition signing to Congress and even my other involvements in activist activities have all failed to cover the truth of my conservativeness!

How could it be so? I tried so hard!

Could there be a grander conspiracy at hand?!

You guessed it! I'm a secret agent for the NWO. And the NWO has super secret agents who have infiltrated LL. These people have somehow tracked my posts, read up on everything I've ever written here and then followed me around in my daily life to prove that I must be doing a very poor job of pretending to be an Independant with a marked Liberal bent.

Now that I've been contacted and have my membership packet, I have no choice but to join the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy openly. I've failed the mission but am nevertheless welcomed into the fold in a lesser capacity. And those here who are not super secret NWO agents but who found me out as quickly as the real ones did ... well, they deserve a real big pat on the back. Maybe some extra special anti-NWO society will recruit them based on their stellar record of recognizing the enemies in their midst.

(Later, in Commander jwhop's secret headquarters ...)