posted March 26, 2007 06:40 PM            

That choice has been offered to leftists here at least 3 times.

There was a time on this forum when discussion among people with differing points of view was possible and even enjoyable.

Over time, some people showed up here and started venting their spleen with personal attacks against George Bush and the United States. Bush has been called everything but a mammal on this forum. America has been called an oppressor and imperialistic.

Bush intelligence, spirituality, appearance, character and every personal facet of his person has been attacked.

On at least 3 occasions I pointed out to those making those kinds of comments that comments of those kinds don't fall into the category of discussion.

On at least 2 occasions I went back into threads and posted some of those comments and some pictures of Bush in a Nazi uniform, Bush in a Satan suit. All of that was to no avail whatsoever and the personal attacks against Bush and the United States continued.

Whether leftists here are afflicted with Bush Derangement Syndrome or perhaps at the base level, leftists are just haters at heart no longer matters to me.

Inflammatory rhetoric was the tool leftists here chose as a discussion style. Real discussion and an exchange of ideas was offered and rejected.

Now, some of those same people whine and moan when I use their little leftist icons as punching bags. At least what I post about the leftist democrats is factual and has a basis in reality.

You started a war. You refused to stop. Now, enjoy what you've brought about.

posted March 26, 2007 07:18 PM            

As a supporter and apologist for terrorists, a member of the anti America twit club, most of what you have to say doesn't lend itself to reasonable discussion.

posted March 26, 2007 07:32 PM            

Your tactics in order to silence are to slander me accuse me of things that are untrue (terrorist supporter and American-hater)....all while using my background against me time and time again everytime I've said something critical of your gov't. Sometimes I honestly think you're a not-so-in-the-closet Xenophobe. But then, realize that this only happens when I say something that is not in line with your POV and I finally get that this just another one of your tactics.

posted March 26, 2007 08:10 PM            

So DL, what you suggest is hypocritical on my part is a measured response to those who wanted a war here, started one, nurtured it and fanned the flames until I and some others had enough of their bullsh*t.

Now, these same people are and have been whining about the responses to their personal attacks on the President and the United States. Up theirs.

posted March 26, 2007 09:02 PM              

Everyone on the left, lets all call Jwhop on this challenge. Let's all just give our thoughts without any personal attacks on the Republicans or those in office now or anyone on the right here at GU.

Let's see if Jwhop can truly conduct himself in a discussion without attacking anyone on the left, the Democrats, or any Democrat in office and especially any of us here on the left.

Let's see who wins this challenge. The Right or the Left.

posted March 26, 2007 09:07 PM              

He also got banned from CE for his same style of rhetoric there which he uses here.

posted March 26, 2007 09:16 PM            

Let me remind you that I challenged you numerous times to post the "quotes" from Bush where he lied and provide details of what he stole and when and where he stole it.

I'm still waiting.

I'll withhold judgment on your challenge..to see if anyone on the left can make a reasonable argument about US, Bush Administration policy and Republicans without interjecting personal insults.

I see acoustic has already failed the challenge. That must be some kind of record acoustic

**Edit

posted March 26, 2007 09:23 PM              

to him, gw bush = US of A.

there are many people, conservtive, liberal, in-between, and none of the above, who do not, for a moment, believe that bush has any interest whatsoever in the well-being of the U.S.

whether he does or doesn't, isn't the issue. it's Jwhop's passionate belief, that an attack on bush is an attack on the spirit and soul of the United States.

it isn't the office of president that he supports, as is evident with his attacks on Clinton and other democratic presidents.

Jwhop is an idealist, with mountains of passion and conviction. he truly believes in freedom. freedom from tyranny.

i think that's where we all collide in a mishmash of freedom loving. we all have our own version of what constitutes 'freedom' and 'oppression'...and really, it's what everyone here is arguing for....just from differing angles.

i think that's the important thing. we must first of all, all understand, that everyone here loves freedom.

posted March 27, 2007 07:42 AM            

quote:

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part of the issue i think, is that Jwhop equates bush with the united states.
to him, gw bush = US of A.

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Exactly, and that is precisely the problem.

quote:

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So DL, what you suggest is hypocritical on my part is a measured response to those who wanted a war here, started one, nurtured it and fanned the flames until I and some others had enough of their bullsh*t.

Now, these same people are and have been whining about the responses to their personal attacks on the President and the United States. Up theirs.

---

Once again, the hypocricy. How many times have you made personal attacks against democrats on the left. And I know this happened looooong before I said a word here. It didn't just start by accident....your hate is very evident. And you, yourself, have also made personal remarks against other gov'ts; including communists, the Palestinian Authority, and so on. Now whether or not these remarks are justified are irrelevant because they're are still the exact same thing that you accuse others of doing. So I suggest that you keep quiet before you make yourself look even more ridiculous.

Yes, I do think that Bush is not smart....justifiably so. You may not like that and take it personally, but I don't care. Other than that, I have NEVER made any personal remamrks against America. I have only stated my opinon on America's position in the world. I know it hasn't been pretty,but deal with it.

posted March 27, 2007 09:26 AM            

Person 2: "Leftists are idiots."

Person 1: "Omg, I've been attacked!"

**********************************

Person 1: "America is out to take over the world, those oil greedy b@stards!"

Person 2: "Terrorists are evil and people who make excuses for their behavior are evil and brain dead, too."

Person 1: "Omg, I've been attacked! Help!"

***********************************

Person 1: "The US government is so corrupt and the American people are just letting them bring evil to the rest of the world because the majority of them are blind sheep."

Person 2: "Look at all the nasty things done by these other countries' governments ... how evil is that?"

Person 1: "Omg, I've been attacked! Help! This person is a racist!"

************************************

Person 1: "X religion's extremists are so crazy and do such screwed up things."

Person 2: "Y religion's extremists are just as messed up if not more so ... look at the kind of cr@p some of them try to justify in the name of their religion ..."

Person 1" "Omg, I've been attacked! Help! This person is a racist! We should ban this person!"

**************************************

Person 1: "I never attacked anyone."

Person 1: "I was provoked."

Person 1: "I'm sorry but my behavior is completely understandable under the circumstances."

Person 1: "It's ALL Person 2's fault!"

Person 1: "There must be some sort of conspiracy around here because Person 2 hasn't been banned yet. The webmaster must tolerate ugly behavior only from his favorites or those he agrees with."

Person 1 in other forums: "Yeah, this is much better, not like GU."

Person 2: "Anyone else?"

*************************************

posted March 27, 2007 03:30 PM            

“I don’t give a ******* ,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a ********* piece of paper!”

posted March 27, 2007 04:29 PM            

quote:

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There was a time on this forum when discussion among people with differing points of view was possible and even enjoyable

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Agreed jwhop

It became heated but the depths of hatemongering and bashing has grown in leaps & bounds.

quote:

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Of course Jwhop was here, and acting in exactly the same way prior to many of us arriving here, so this war started sometime prior to at least May 2005

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Did you research that AG and see what most of the discussions were about and who participated? OR who didn`t?

Gold star for Eleanore

A sense of humor has been missing the past few years and it`s refreshing to see one at a critical time in G.U.`s de evolution.

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted March 27, 2007 04:34 PM            

Did any credible news source...like a main stream newspaper ever go to print with those supposed quotes? You know the NY Times and Associated Press would be all over quotes like that...like flies on stink.

Or did you pick up this crap from one of your favorite morons of the far radical left...like Capitol Hill Blue for instance..or perhaps democrat underground..or moveondotorg..or daily kos.

Get back to me when you run this down from a "credible" source with the President's alleged words in quotation marks.

posted March 28, 2007 02:32 AM              

Besides, I didn't bash you. I just stated the truths:

1: That you were a member of LL before both myself and AG joined the site.

2. That you were kicked out of CE for personal attacks on the people there in World Community.

Juni, you were at CE when this happened. So you know that to be true.

I keep telling you, Jwhop that the whole world knows that Bush and his administration lied more than once in giving their reasons for invading Iraq. They said there were WMD's there - none were found. They said that Saddam Hussein was in league with Osama bin Laden and the Al Quida. That has been proven to be untrue as well. Bush lied to the American people and Congress. Everyone knows this. It has been proven. So it stands to reason that if the man lied about the reasons for invading Iraq that makes him a liar. A proven liar at that.

I don't recall saying that Bush was a theif. I do recall that I stated that the Republican majority in Congress were theives and crooks and how many of them have since been proven to be just that?

posted March 28, 2007 09:16 AM            

Simply put, some here find this situation as amusing as I do. Nice to see they could laugh, as well.

I don't believe I've failed any challenge regarding not insulting people or not personally attacking people, either. Neither will I start taking stock of all the insulting things alot of people have flung around in here just yet though by all means if you wish to do so ...

posted March 28, 2007 10:12 AM            

Perhaps it escaped your attention that I'm a moderator on Lexigram Magic, not Global Unity?

Even so, if I were to moderate GU ... moderators lose nothing by being moderators. We can still post as we see fit, just like everyone else. No matter how angry some will get, no moderator has to stifle their opinions merely to please others.

Is that the sort of thing this argument will really be reduced to?

Oh, wait, wait ... have I been attacked for being a moderator? Heavens to Betsy, sound the alarms!

posted March 28, 2007 12:41 PM              

You are certainly entitled to your perceptions whether they are biased or not as are everyone else here at LL. Mostly our perceptions are biased along the lines of who we like and don't like and what our world views may be. Also they are based on our own experiences in life and in our past relationships with others.

I don't really care if my opinions and viewpoints anger someone else either and isn't that the reason many people around here don't like me? Not that I lose any sleep over who doesn't like me.

However, I would like to see some real discussions once in awhile here at GU without the personal attacks on others the same as Jwhop suggested. It seems that some of the people on the right choose to think that it is the people on the left who start the trouble. We see it otherwise and if you want proof, you only have to look at the subject titles of Jwhop's threads. Just about every thread he posts here and titles in the manner he does is a diliberate attempt at prompting an argument. His subject titles are always worded as direct attacks.

I know Jwhop from having dealt with his manner of discussion from another site in the past. It was the same there as it has been all along at LL. That is just the way that Jwhop is and I accept that is the way he is.

For this reason I am not going to sit here and let him and others put it all off on the people here who are on the left. Most of them are only responding ( and I did not say "defending" as that seems to be a dirty word to those who feel they can say and do as they want and people are just supposed to "suck it up") to his inflammatory style of presenting his opinions and his posts.

Why can't we all, those on the left and right, just admit that we are all equally guilty of being out of line and put it in the past and start over by attempting to disagree without being disagreeable? I fully admit that I have gotten out of line more than once. For that reason I felt that this thread of Jwhop's is a good challenge for all of us to take up.

posted March 28, 2007 12:54 PM              

quote:

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LOL Would it be easier if everyone was so easily offended? Forgive me but I'll pass on that. <shakes head>

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We are human beings on the other side of your computer screen, Eleanore. Whether you see us as that or not. Being human beings we are not perfect and yes, from time to time we might get offended. Can you say that nothing that anyone has ever said to you on the computer on forums like this one has ever offended you?

When offended or angered people are going to respond according to their nature which might not be in the same manner that you respond in anger or when someone says something that offends you. Are you suggesting that we are less perfect in some way because we do not respond as you would or in the way that you think we should?

To deride someone as you did DL for their opinion hints of superiority in some way.

You know what DL was saying. She was saying that moderators, no matter what forum they moderate at, should be setting some kind of example for others on the board. If the mods don't follow the rules why should anyone else?

I see nothing wrong with her saying that. It doesn't mean that you have to be perfect and can't get upset or express your viewpoints just because you were selected as a moderator. It is how DL felt about it though and I think she feels that way for the reasons that I gave here. She shouldn't be derided for having that thought.

edited to say:

posted March 28, 2007 01:30 PM            

quote:

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I see I misunderstood and it was DL who said that about everyone being so easily offended.

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I'm sorry but I don't exactly get what you mean, Mirandee? My only point in this thread is that JWhop should not be throwing stones from glass houses. He accuses others of things he does...and he's probably worse by tenfold.

quote:

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Perhaps it escaped your attention that I'm a moderator on Lexigram Magic, not Global Unity?

Even so, if I were to moderate GU ... moderators lose nothing by being moderators. We can still post as we see fit, just like everyone else. No matter how angry some will get, no moderator has to stifle their opinions merely to please others.

Is that the sort of thing this argument will really be reduced to?

Oh, wait, wait ... have I been attacked for being a moderator? Heavens to Betsy, sound the alarms!

LOL Would it be easier if everyone was so easily offended? Forgive me but I'll pass on that. <shakes head>

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