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Author Topic:   Iran -- Man-Made Armageddon
naiad
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posted March 27, 2007 06:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hagee stated that "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation [...] and [the] Second Coming of Christ."


POLITICS-US/IRAN:
The Religious Right's New Bugbear

OAKLAND, United States, Mar 14 (IPS) - Last Sunday, Pastor John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel, received a rousing reception at the opening dinner plenary of the annual American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) conference.

Hagee warned the crowd that "Iran poses a nuclear threat to the state of Israel that promises nothing less than a nuclear Holocaust." Hagee claimed that the situation is like 1938, only "Iran is Germany and [President Mahmoud] Ahmedinejad is the new Hitler."

Hagee added: "We must stop Iran's nuclear threat and stop it now and stand boldly [with] Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East."

A few weeks earlier, Hagee had met with Senator John McCain, a leading contender for the Republican Party's 2008 presidential nomination. Hagee has been leading the charge of conservative Christian evangelicals urging President George W. Bush to deal more forcefully with Iran.

"Hagee's appearance at AIPAC indicates the growing organisational strength of the Christian Zionist lobby for apocalyptic war and the rise of corresponding Jewish factions both within AIPAC and within Israeli politics that are pushing for dramatically expanded war in the Mideast," Bruce Wilson, the co-founder of Talk To Action, a website specialising on religion and politics, told IPS.

As the launching of the Iraq War approaches its fourth anniversary, it is worth remembering that during the lead-up to the invasion, a number of conservative evangelicals voiced their support for the war.

Richard Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, maintained that Bush's action met criteria for a just war. The National Association of Evangelicals, which represents several dozen denominations encompassing more than 30 million U.S. evangelical Christians, openly supported the war. And Mike Evans, who heads the aggressively pro-Israeli Jerusalem Prayer Team, pointed out that war with Iraq could be a "dress rehearsal for Armageddon," the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

These days, while the Bush administration and beltway neoconservatives doggedly crank up the volume against Iran, they are again being joined by a number of significant conservative Christian evangelicals.

Hagee, pastor of the 18,000-member San Antonio, Texas-based Cornerstone Church and head of a multi-million-dollar evangelical enterprise, "seems to believe such a conflict is both inevitable and necessary," The Jewish Week noted in early March.

Founder of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a Christian Zionist lobbying group created last year, Hagee is also the author of a number of Christian-themed novels, as well as the recent "Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World," which maintains that biblical prophecy is currently playing itself out in the Middle East.

"The end of the world as we know it is rapidly approaching," Hagee wrote in "Jerusalem Countdown." "Just before us is a nuclear countdown with Iran followed by Ezekiel's war (as described in Ezekiel, chapters 38 and 39), and then the final battle -- the battle of Armageddon."

In a recent series of articles focused on Hagee, Talk to Action's Bruce Wilson described him as someone that "has built a career on aggressive support for hard right to fringe right Israeli politics and is now making inroads towards convincing the mainstream American Jewish community that he and CUFI are the best tactical allies Jews and Israel can expect to find."

"Pastor John Hagee's warmly received AIPAC speech illustrates the extent to which political leaders who espouse ideology that in the 1960s was considered to be scandalously close the extreme end of the political spectrum can now expect to broadcast their views from a national stage," Wilson told IPS.

Joel Rosenberg is another conservative Christian evangelical advocating some type of military action against Iran. In late February, Rosenberg, who was raised in an Orthodox Jewish family, reported on his website that a number of conservative Christian evangelical leaders were beginning to show an interest in Iran, particularly as the situation in the Middle East relates to passages in the Bible.

Rosenberg's latest novel, "The Ezekiel Option," is "about the threat of a Russian-Iranian alliance to destroy Israel based on the Biblical prophecies found in the Book of Ezekiel, chapters 38 and 39." These prophecies "describe what Bible scholars call the war of Gog and Magog. Russia and Iran form a military alliance with Lebanon, Syria and a group of other Middle East countries to destroy Israel in what Ezekiel described as the last days."

In January, during a trip to the Middle East, Rosenberg said that he "brief[ed] several hundred Arab and Iranian pastors and evangelical leaders on the latest geopolitical developments in the region," and that he taught "on Ezekiel 38 and 39... prophecies that most Christian leaders in the region are unfamiliar with."

Back home, Rosenberg has discovered a growing interest in developments in Iran amongst prominent evangelical Christian leaders. While flying to New Mexico, he "happened to sit next to" Focus on the Family founder Dr. James Dobson, one of the most politically powerful conservative evangelical leaders in the U.S.

Dobson, who "had been in Washington for meetings with high-level administration officials to discuss Iran, Iraq and the latest developments in the Middle East," told Rosenberg that he was becoming more "concerned about the Iranian nuclear threat, and has been studying Ezekiel's prophecies."

"Will there be a war in the region this year or next?" While acknowledging that "it's too early to say," Rosenberg claimed that 2007 is "the Year of Decision." President Bush and Congressional leaders "will need to decide soon just how they're going to handle the Iranian nuclear threat, [and] Church leaders also need to decide just how they are going to handle the Iranian threat, as well ... after all, time is short, and the stakes are high."

Last July, at Christian United for Israel's coming out party in Washington, Hagee stated that "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation [...] and [the] Second Coming of Christ."

In a statement given to IPS by Jane Hunter and Rabbi Haim Dov Beliak, co-founders of the website JewsOnFirst.org, they said that "Hagee's call in his speech for victory for Israel and America (which appears to refer to Iran) is not necessarily the call for military victory which his audience might have heard (a chilling prospect nonetheless). Hagee's 'victory' is coded language for Armageddon, which Christian Zionists see as the end-times battles set in Israel, when Christians are raptured to heaven and Jews lose -- unless they're happy to convert."

If President Bush unleashes a pre-emptive military strike against Iran, there is little doubt that Pastor Hagee will be by his side.

Bill Berkowitz http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36920

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naiad
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posted March 27, 2007 10:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
interesting perspective...

Iran's weakened hard-liners crave a US attack

But rather than giving them war, Washington should offer comprehensive negotiations.

By Abbas Milani, Larry Diamond, and Michael McFaul

STANFORD, CALIF. - From the rhetoric of President Bush to his dispatch of Patriot air-defense systems and a second carrier battle group to the Persian Gulf, there are growing signs that the Bush administration is showing its willingness to solve the Iranian nuclear crisis with a preemptive military attack. The already tense US-Iran relationship is now a tinderbox.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates was correct in stating recently that Iran is "acting in a very negative way" in the Middle East. The Islamic Republic trains and supports Hizbullah and Hamas. It provides aid and explosives to Iraqi Shiite militias who attack American soldiers. Most alarming, it seems determined to develop a nuclear bomb. This panics moderate Arab states and poses an existential threat to Israel. The ruling mullahs in Tehran terrorize their own citizens, especially pro-democracy groups.

Bombing Iran, however, will not resolve any of these dangers – it would exacerbate them. But where military strikes would fail, containment and comprehensive negotiations would succeed.

Contrary to conventional accounts, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is neither the most powerful official in Iran nor is he loved by the Iranian people. The authoritarian regime is not united behind Mr. Ahmadinejad and his policies, but divided and uncertain about who will prevail. The real kingpin in Iran is Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, and his failing health has launched a succession struggle. On one side of this fight are Ahmadinejad, a cabal of leaders from the Revolutionary Guards, and the Basij (the militia-*** -gangs that terrorize the regime's opponents). On the other side is a loose coalition united by their disdain for Ahmadinejad's gross economic mismanagement and reckless hubris. This includes Iran's bulging generation of young people, along with businessmen, technocrats, reformists, allies of former President Hashemi Rafsanjani, and even the conservative Motalefe Party.

After a year of rising stardom, Ahmadinejad is starting to lose in this power struggle. He has not delivered on his campaign pledges to fight corruption or improve the lot of the working classes and the poor. In recent elections for local councils as well as for the powerful 80-man Council of Experts (entrusted with the task of choosing the next spiritual leader) Ahmadinejad and his allies suffered humiliating defeats.

To reverse his waning popular support, Ahmadinejad has tried to change the subject from his domestic failures to his foreign adventures. He knows there is only one thing that could bring the people back to him – a US military attack on Iran. His repulsive remarks about Israel and his nuclear bravado aim precisely to provoke such an attack, which would create the crisis conditions necessary for his faction to seize full power.

Just as Iran's reactionaries are pining for war, some of Iran's more moderate leaders have written a letter asking the Saudi government to help reduce tensions between the US and Iran. Military confrontation with US forces would silence this camp domestically.

In fact, Iran's democratic opposition warns that a US military strike would strengthen the regime hard-liners and weaken their own already limited ability to operate. If Ahmadinejad welcomes war with America and Iran's dissidents fear it, shouldn't the Bush administration think twice about the unintended consequences of military action?

If Ahmadinejad does consolidate power, Iran would act in an even more negative way. Moreover, it would do so with soaring support throughout much of the Muslim world, for an American attack would elevate him to hero status.

This would only fan his faction's ambitions to establish Iranian hegemony in the Middle East. Its support for terrorist organizations would increase. Terrorism, polarization, and sectarian violence would intensify in Iraq, Lebanon, the Palestinian territories, and Afghanistan, and could begin to engulf Bahrain and even the Shiite region of Saudi Arabia – where most of the country's oil is.

A sustained US bombing campaign would disrupt Iran's nuclear weapons programs. But the newly consolidated hard-line regime in Tehran would be even more emboldened to acquire nuclear weapons. A preemptive attack, which would lack international legitimacy, would also prompt Iran to withdraw entirely from the nuclear nonproliferation regime, as some of Ahmadinejad's allies have already threatened, while inducing the crucial international fence-sitters – Russia and China – to back Iran without hesitation.

There is an alternative. Rather than throw the reactionaries in Tehran a political lifeline in the form of war, the United States should pursue a more subtle approach: Contain Iranian agents in the region, but offer to negotiate unconditionally with Iran on all the outstanding issues. Comprehensive negotiations could offer the powerful inducements – such as a lifting of the economic embargo and a significant influx of foreign investment and thus jobs – necessary to persuade Iran to halt nuclear enrichment. And if the hard-liners reject the offer, they would have to contend with an angry Iranian public. Such internal strife would be far preferable to an Islamic Republic united against the attacking forces of the "Great Satan."

Christian Science Monitor
February 06, 2007 edition

Abbas Milani, Larry Diamond, and Michael McFaul are research fellows at the Hoover Institution. They also teach at Stanford University.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0206/p09s01-coop.html

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 28, 2007 03:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting.

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naiad
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posted March 28, 2007 04:09 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks for looking in here AG.

important:

quote:
There is an alternative. Rather than throw the reactionaries in Tehran a political lifeline in the form of war, the United States should pursue a more subtle approach: Contain Iranian agents in the region, but offer to negotiate unconditionally with Iran on all the outstanding issues. Comprehensive negotiations could offer the powerful inducements – such as a lifting of the economic embargo and a significant influx of foreign investment and thus jobs – necessary to persuade Iran to halt nuclear enrichment. And if the hard-liners reject the offer, they would have to contend with an angry Iranian public.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 28, 2007 04:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I heard a little more about this today. Thought I'd reexamine your thread.

There are always alternatives.

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naiad
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posted March 28, 2007 05:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
will you be sharing what you heard about this topic?

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Dulce Luna
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posted March 28, 2007 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation [...] and [the] Second Coming of Christ."

What idiots and sorry excuses for Christians that they are...for 1)thinking that WWIII will usher in Christ's return; and 2) Thinking that ANYONE can usher in the second comming of Christ to begin with.

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pidaua
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From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
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posted March 28, 2007 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you Dulce. These people should not be able to call themselves Christians, yet they do. They do not represent the Christian movement as we do not believe that we can bring about the end times or Rapture.

This is what I was talking about concerning radical movements that believe in the extermination of one group, whether they want to bring about end times or kill all infidels, they are off their rockers.

What really gets me is that we are taught (as Christians) that it is not up to us to judge or to bring about certain events, i.e the second coming, but it is to be left to God. Yet..these extremists feel that THEY have the power to bring about the end of the world because they feel they are righteous above reproach and will secure a place in heaven.

Ugh..... where do these nuts (and I am including ALL radical extremists) come from?

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Dulce Luna
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From: The Asylum, NC
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posted March 29, 2007 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, sometimes I wonder myself where they came from. As if there weren't enough problems in the Mid East..they now want to cause a Nuclear Armaggedon. Arrrgghhh

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Eleanore
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From: Okinawa, Japan
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posted March 29, 2007 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is the obsession with Armaggedon? Do people have to blame all their stupidity on God?

I'm all about Jews and Christians and Muslims and everyone else getting along. I don't think we need nuclear war to achieve that, though.

It's so ridiculous if you think about it. The Bible warns of many false prophets, etc. The "Second Coming of Christ" won't even be truly recognized. So all those whackos thinking they're paving the way for what only they will at first recognize really need to take a close and painful look at what they'll really accomplish. Hey, if the majority of people eventually recognize one guy as "The Christ" we'll know that's not him. Geez.


Anyway, Iran and nukes. Not a good idea. I'd rather nobody had nukes. Will there ever come a time? And one without a nuclear war at that?

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naiad
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posted March 29, 2007 09:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
these christian groups have quite a wealthy membership -- and as the article states, their membership is enormous.

not only that, they do have the ear of politicians and the administration, so it's wise not to write them off as just whackos.

seems that a lot of the policy makers take them quite seriously.

i also think it isn't a coincidence that hagee's location, cornerstone chruch, in san antonio is within walking distance of a huge military reservation. it's also one of the most upper income areas of the city.

important things to consider.

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Eleanore
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posted March 29, 2007 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I mean whacko as part of its definition. A person regarded as irrational, eccentric or mad. I regard them as irrational and mad. That's not to say they have no influence. Plenty of mad, irrational people have had too much influence in the world, imo.

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naiad
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posted April 02, 2007 04:34 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
different christian perspective....

U.S. Christians Visit Iran's Top Leaders to Defuse Tension

U.S. Christian leaders are visiting Iran’s top political and religious leaders this week in hope of relieving tension between the United States and Iran.

A delegation of 13 Christian leaders from the Mennonite, Quaker, Episcopal, Catholic and United Methodist churches as well as representatives from the National Council of Churches, Pax Christi and Sojourners/Call to Renewal are visiting Iran from Feb. 17-25.

The group will dialogue with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, former president Mohammad Khatami, women serving in the Iranian parliament as well as Iran’s Muslim and Christian leaders.

“Our primary goal is to engage in dialogue with a variety of Iranians,” said Ron Flaming, Mennonite Central Committee (MCC) international program director, in a statement.

The delegation will spend most of its time with religious leaders in Tehran, Qom and Isfahan. Delegates will meet with Iranian Evangelical Protestant leaders, the Archbishop of the Armenian Orthodox Church in Iran, and Muslim religious leaders in the religious city of Qom.

Tension is escalating between the United States and the Iranian government over issues such as the country’s nuclear plans, its denial of the holocaust, and its human rights violations.

Currently, the two countries are not communicating directly with one another.

“We are making this trip hoping it will encourage both governments to step back from a course that will lead to conflict and suffering,” said Mary Ellen McNish of American Friends Service Committee (AFSC), an international social justice organization, in a statement.

The delegation is organized by AFSC and the Mennonite Central Committee.

Some of this week’s delegation members had previously dialogued with Ahmadinejad in New York last September. The religious leaders who met with the Iranian president last year had met with Congressional members afterwards to share important points in the discussion. Congressional staff members had encouraged them in their effort and visit Iran if possible.

Delegation members will again meet with the U.S. Congress to inform them of what the leaders in Iran said and suggest ways to decrease tension between the two countries.

“We are hopeful,” said Flaming. “As Christians we are called to talk with those we are in conflict with and move toward forgiveness and reconciliation. We pray this will open doors to diplomacy.”

By Ethan Cole
Christian Post Reporter
Sun, Feb. 18 2007

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070218/25880_U.S._Chr istians_Visit_Iran's_Top_Leaders_to_Defuse_Tension.htm

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naiad
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posted April 12, 2007 09:24 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Christian Zionist leader Hagee depicts Jews as Christ killers
by JewsOnFirst, September 26, 2006

John Hagee, the megachurch pastor who is the current face of Christian Zionism in the United States, depicted Jews as Christ killers in a recent interview. Hagee also stated that Muslims have a "mandate" to kill Christians and Jews and that God caused Hurricane Katrina to destroy New Orleans to prevent a scheduled gay parade.

Hagee made the controversial remarks about Jews, Muslims and gays during a September 18th interivew on the National Public Radio program Fresh Air. Jews, he said, will weep when they "see" Jesus Christ whose side they have "pierced."

Hagee is pastor of the Cornerstone Church in Antonio and head of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a new organization led by the religous right's biggest names. CUFI's purpose is to lobby Congress to support Israel. The Christian Zionist movement's motives are based on end-times "Armageddon" scenarios of wars involving Russia, Iran and Arab countries. Hagee has been warning that Iran is planning a nuclear attack on Israel. (See our earlier report) He "explains" all this with biblical verses.

Opposition to ceding land for peace
Christian Zionists put great emphasis on returning all the world's Jews to Israel as part of their end times scenarios. They also oppose Israel ceding any land as part of a peace agreement. Hagee and other Christian Zionists make a great show of raising money for Israel (often to fund settling immigrants or expansionist Jewish settlers).

Christian Zionists justify all this with a mumbo-jumbo of biblical interpretation. For example, Hagee said during the Fresh Air interview: "Joel 3:2 says do not do it. Those who divide up the land of Israel will come under the judgment of God. Therefore, don't do it. It's just that simple."

Hagee made the Christ-killer statement when Fresh Air host Terry Gross asked him about about the "rapture" that he says will occur when Jesus Christ returns in the end-times scenario. At first, Hagee insisted that Jews could be "raptured" into the air along with Christians.

"Well, there are Jewish people who believe in Jesus Christ, and there are Arabs who believe in Jesus Christ, so you don't have to be a gentile to be a believer," he told Gross.

But, she pressed, "you do have to believe in Jesus Christ." Hagee agreed to that, and Gross pressed on, asking what about "Israeli Jews who don't believe in Jesus Christ when the Rapture comes?"

Jews will "see"
Hagee responded that those Jews would not be raptured, but would have to live through the "Tribulation."

Where that leaves them is that during the tribulation, the book of Revelation says in the 14th chapter that God is going to send angels who will preach the everlasting gospel across the face of the earth so that everyone will have the opportunity of knowing who Jesus Christ is. Now, when it comes to the Jesus people, Zechariah very clearly says that they are not going to believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah until they see him. Zechariah says in the 14th chapter `and when they, the Jewish people, see him whom they have pierced'--and the word pierced there actually refers to his rib and side--`when they see him whom they have pierced, they will weep as one weeps for his only son for a period of one week. They're simply not going to believe he is the Messiah until they actually see him, and that's at the Second Coming. Then, at that point in time, there is the judgment of the nations in which all nations are judged for the way in which they have treated the nation of Israel and the Jewish people, and the Jewish people are front and center in the kingdom of God that will be an eternal kingdom.
Hagee and his fellow Christian Zionists have gone to great lengths to reassure Jewish organizations that they will not take advantage of their activities in support of Israel to try to convert Jews.

A "mandate to kill"
In arguing against an Israeli compromise for peace, Hagee stated: "those who live by the Quran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews." Gross questioned him twice on the statement.

GROSS: Do you believe that?
Pastor HAGEE: Well, the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly.

GROSS: So, for you, there's absolutely no way of tolerating Islam at all. I'm not talking about extreme Islam. I'm just talking about the Muslim religion.

Pastor HAGEE: No, there are Islamics who want peace, but they don't have center stage right now. And whenever Islam, radical Islam, does things that make the headlines, like getting on a bus with a bomb strapped around them and killing people, the moderates do not speak up because they're afraid that they will be killed by the radicals. So it gives the appearance that there are no--there is--there are no moderate Islamic people...

Hurricane Katrina
At the end of the interview, Gross asked Hagee about a sermon in which he'd said Hurricane Katrina was a punishment from God. He explained:

I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are--were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade on the Monday that the Katrina came, and the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing.

Numerous Jewish organizations work with Hagee and CUFI because they value the Christian Zionists' support for Israel. Some rabbis, however, view Hagee's domestic agenda as detrimental to Jewish life in the United States. Rabbi Barry Block of Temple Beth El in San Antonio, writing for the Jewish Telegraph Agency said: [Cufi's] advocacy for Israel will harm everything we hold dear, as Israel and the Jewish people are tarnished by association."

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06c/cufi02.html

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naiad
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posted April 12, 2007 09:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Christian Zionists rally in San Antonio
Speakers say Islam is the enemy and advocate attacking Iran

By MARGOT PATTERSON
San Antonio

In 1981, Texas pastor and televangelist John Hagee put on the first Night to Honor Israel at his church in San Antonio. Israel had a few months before bombed Iraq’s nuclear reactor at Osirak, and the Christian Zionist preacher wanted to show his support for Israel after its destruction of the nuclear reactor had been criticized around the world.

Twenty-five years later, Hagee, who now advocates a strike by the United States or Israel on Iran’s nuclear installations, observed the silver anniversary of the Church of the Cornerstone’s annual Night to Honor Israel, an event that was part of a three-day celebration Oct. 20-22 designed to show solidarity with Israel and the Jewish people and to advance the message that Israel and America are in danger.

For the first time, Christians United for Israel, CUFI, a lobbying group Hagee established nine months ago, presented the event. It was billed as the first “national” Night to Honor Israel, an event that CUFI directors are taking to other U.S. cities. Such evenings have already been held in Berkeley, Sacramento and Pasadena, Calif.; St. Louis; Arvada, Colo.; and Carlsbad, N.M., and are scheduled for several other cities.

For Hagee, bringing together Christian ministers from across the country, many of them representing megachurches like his own, with local and national Jewish representatives was the fulfillment of a vision he’d had since 1981 when he tried to summon 30 Christian ministers to host such an event and 29 of them left at the first break. “It was an absolute failure, a royal bust,” he said, recalling the event.

But this year’s national event in San Antonio was “a new day” for Hagee. Since 1981, he and others have witnessed the emergence of Christian Zionism as a religious and political movement with growing political clout.

The evolving agenda of that movement was on display throughout the weekend, particularly at the special Middle East intelligence briefing on Saturday, Oct. 21, which featured former CIA director James Woolsey; a military adviser and former chief of staff for the Israeli Defense Forces, Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon; and Joseph Ginat, director of the Strategic Dialogue Center at the Netanya Academic College in Israel.

Around 3,000 people paid $25 each to attend the three-hour-plus briefing at the Church of the Cornerstone in which the spectre of “Islamofascism” was regularly invoked.

Woolsey said America is at war with a new enemy. Previously, it had faced secular totalitarian regimes. Now it faces several theocratic totalitarian regimes rooted, he said, in one of the world’s great religions, Islam. “They hate us not for what we’ve done wrong but what we do right,” Woolsey said. “They hate us for our freedom.”

While many analysts have said that Iran is years away from producing a nuclear weapon, Israeli scholar Joseph Ginat warned that the West has only six to 10 months to take military action against Iran. A strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities would be difficult but not impossible, he said. He expressed little hope that a diplomatic solution to the impasse over Iran’s development of nuclear power could be negotiated.

“In the culture of the Arab world, there is a dimension known as the culture of lies,” said Ginat.

A grim picture

Yaalon painted a grim picture of an ongoing war that he said had already started between the West and radical Islam, one he said will go on for generations. “The war is between the Western culture, the culture which supports compassion, human rights and dignity, freedom, against those that promote death -- death for any freedom.”

Yaalon argued that opposition to Israel has little to do with its occupation of the Palestinian territories. “The problem is not what they fabricate about occupation or apartheid,” he said.

Two Arab speakers appeared on the platform. Brigitte Gabriel, a former TV anchor for “World News” on the Middle East Television network and the author of Why They Hate, described herself as a “Lebanese Zionist” and recounted traumatic episodes growing up as a Lebanese Christian during the civil war in Lebanon. Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist who converted to Christianity and is the author of Why I Left Jihad, also drew on his personal experiences.

Gabriel said Israel’s enemies are America’s, warned of Hamas cells in the United States -- “Hamas has the largest infrastructure on American soil” -- and declared, “Our enemy is in Islamic mosques throughout the U.S.”

Shoebat was just as explicit in his denunciation of Islam. There are peaceful Muslims, he conceded, but said those were the Muslims who knew little about their religion. “Our job is to liberate 1.2 billion Muslims and sometimes it has to be with a baseball bat,” Shoebat said, who compared Islam to Nazism.

The two Arab speakers’ personal stories hit an obvious chord with the audience. But despite the enthusiastic cheers and ovations, not everyone was convinced.

Susan Ives, the director of communications at the interfaith peaceCENTER in San Antonio and a critic of Hagee, said she had come to the briefing skeptical of Christian Zionism but attempting to have an open mind. Ives said she found the briefing “very frightening.”

“I’ve never been in any placed that called itself a Christian setting where there was such hatred,” Ives said.

“If I were a Muslim, I would have been very, very afraid at the end of those four hours. They were depicting Islam as a hateful religion at the very least, especially the two Arab speakers. But almost every single one of them talked about Islam as a religion of liars.”

“It has to be a real wake-up call for people who do not buy into this theology,” Ives said.

That theology is rooted in a view of Biblical prophecy and the end times that leads Christian Zionists to unstintingly support the state of Israel. Christian Zionists regard the creation of Israel in 1948 as one of the most significant events in history, a necessary prelude to the Rapture and Armageddon. Like Hagee, most Christian Zionists oppose any territorial concessions on the part of Israel for any reason.

‘Let it be known’

In addition to the intelligence briefing, the weekend celebration of Israel and the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, or Sukkot, included a carnival, food booths and a marketplace selling goods by scores of Israeli vendors. An Israeli choir sang at the regular Sunday services and the concluding celebration.

The latter was an extravaganza that began with the American and Israeli national anthems and went on to evoke memories of the Holocaust. The Cornerstone Church choir and drama department sang Jewish and Israeli songs and at one point filed into a darkened church holding electric candles and small Israeli flags as a voice intoned, “Israel, you are not alone. Not only are you not alone, you are loved. Let it be known from this night on, Israel has a family. Let it be known in Tehran, Damascus and Beirut ... that night and day we will watch and pray. ”

Messages from Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres and former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu thanking the congregation and Hagee for their support for Israel were broadcast over two large video screens.

In his keynote address, Malcolm Hoenlein, vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations, spoke of recent attempts to deny Israel’s legitimacy, singling out for criticism Professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt of the University of Chicago and Harvard for their recent “sophomoric” paper critical of the Jewish lobby, and condemned what he said were attempts to give moral equivalency to Hezbollah and Israel in the recent war in Lebanon.

Critics of Christian Zionists say their unequivocal support for Israel comes at the expense of Palestinians, including local Christian Palestinians, and jeopardizes prospects for peace.

“The dangers of Christian Zionism haven’t been talked about,” said Art Preisinger, a retired Lutheran minister and history professor attending the celebration at Cornerstone Church.

But most of the Christians in attendance for the weekend were wholehearted in their support for Hagee’s message.

Elesi Nagalu, 41, said nobody should be telling Israel what to do. “That land [Israel] belongs to the Jewish people. They [Palestinians] might have property deeds, but property deeds don’t mean anything to me.”

Nagalu, who had come to San Antonio from San Mateo, Calif., said she had enjoyed the weekend thoroughly. “God willing, I’ll be here next year. If Jesus doesn’t return before then.”

National Catholic Reporter http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2006d/110306/110306j.php

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posted April 12, 2007 09:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pushback on Armageddon
by Jane Hunter and Rabbi Haim Dov Beliak, JewsOnFirst.org, March 7, 2007

As the nation turns against war in the Middle East, Christian Zionists continue their agitation for attacking Iran as a way to hasten Armageddon, the end-time. And the most prominent Jewish organizations continue to embrace Christian Zionists as supporters of Israel, which Christian Zionists believe will be the scene of the end-times return of Jesus.

Meanwhile, some Christians are warning of the consequences of the Christian Zionists' agenda. Dr. Stan Moody, author of Countdown to Armageddon, which we've just posted, writes with concern about a fundamentalist drive "to focus American hegemony on the Middle East to orchestrate the return of Christ."

The Jewish organizations are silent about the fundamentalist Christian domestic agenda of their Christian Zionists allies. But that does not mean that Jews around the country are at ease with it.

Last month we saw the influential Jewish weekly, the Forward, reminding Jewish organizational leaders that they may have Congress's ear, but they do not speak for the nation's Jews. The Forward takes as a case in point the environmentalism popular with Jews (and much of the rest of the public) versus the "energy independence" stance of the Jewish organizations, which is seen as being supportive of Israel.

The same disconnect pertains to the Jewish organizations' advocacy for an aggressive US policy toward Iran -- the more so because Christian Zionists also favor attacking Iran. Jewish organizational leaders laugh off the fact that their Christian Zionist allies see war with Iran as hastening the last battle, Armageddon, which will they say will destroy all Jews who don't convert to Christianity. The Jewish organizations, however misguidedly, view war on Iran as protective of Israel.

Pastor Hagee
The leader of the most prominent Christian Zionist group -- and one of the loudest voices for attacking Iran -- Pastor John Hagee (pictured here), is scheduled to give a keynote address to a policy conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) this weekend, according to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (JTA). AIPAC is Israel's lobbyist in Washington.

Hagee heads Christians United for Israel (CUFI) and has gathered a long list of top religious right leaders on its governing bodies. His book, Jerusalem Countdown: A Prelude to War, promotes attacking Iran. Hagee bases this "foreign policy" on cherry-picked biblical verses which he interprets to forecast the end-times battle of Armageddon. Christian Zionists believe that battle will take place in Israel and presage the return of Jesus. Hagee predicts it coming at the end of a war that begins in Iran.

Also citing biblical verses, Hagee argues adamantly that Israel should not trade any land for peace in a settlement with the Palestinians. He embellishes his Middle East warmongering with crude attacks on Muslims and Islam. (Please follow the links below this essay for the details of Hagee's statements.)

Christian Zionists believe that Armageddon awaits the immigration of all the world's Jews to Israel. That explains Hagee's demand that Israel keep all the land it occupied in 1967. And it also undoubtedly explains -- though hardly excuses -- his statement in Jerusalem Countdown that the Holocaust resulted from Jews' refusal to move to Israel when bidden by Theodor Herzl:

God then sent the hunters. The hunter is one who pursues his target with force and fear. No one could see the horror of the Holocaust coming, but the force and fear of Hitler's Nazis drove the Jewish people back to the only home God ever intended for the Jews to have -- Israel. I stand amazed at the accuracy of God's Word and its relevance for our time.

What we can say about that is that it's an ironic counterpoint to the Satmar Hasidic Jews who blame Jews' embrace of Zionism for the Holocaust, as God's retribution. What Jewish organizations have said about it: absolutely nothing. After repeatedly quoting the Iranian president's denial of the Holocaust, perhaps they have no excoriating left in them.

Hagee, for the record, has also said on National Public Radio's Fresh Air that Jews will drop their refusal to accept Christ when they see "him whom they have pierced."

Zechariah very clearly says that they are not going to believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah until they see him. Zechariah says in the 14th chapter `and when they, the Jewish people, see him whom they have pierced'--and the word pierced there actually refers to his rib and side--`when they see him whom they have pierced, they will weep as one weeps for his only son for a period of one week.
Jewish organizational leaders have said repeatedly that they have Hagee's promise not to proselytize Jews.

http://www.jewsonfirst.org/07a/pushback_armageddon.html

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posted April 13, 2007 05:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a thought.

Say Christ did come back due to all this potential turmoil.

Once they realised he wasn't going to shape the world in the way they wanted would they then betray and murder him?

Would everything just repeat itself? Would Muslims or anyone do the same to their messiah if their plans were being blocked?

I don't think they've thought anything through properly, seeing as they are such nice level-headed planners. They would be more powerful with the threat than the action.

Swerve

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posted April 19, 2007 10:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Poll: One in Four Says Jesus May Return in 2007

By Adelle M. Banks
Religion News Service

Twenty-five percent of Americans believe it is at least somewhat likely that Jesus Christ will return to Earth in 2007, a new poll from the Associated Press and AOL News shows.

The poll, conducted by the international polling firm Ipsos, looked at the public's predictions about what will occur in 2007.

Pollsters found that 11 percent of those surveyed said it is "very likely" that Jesus will return to Earth this year. An additional 14 percent said it was "somewhat likely."

Twenty-five percent of those polled said it was "not too likely,"

compared to 42 percent who said it was "not at all likely." Eight percent said they did not know or were not sure.

While a quarter of Americans polled said that it is at least somewhat likely that Jesus will return to Earth this year, views about the topic varied depending on religious persuasion, the AP reported.

For example, 46 percent of white evangelical Christians believe it's at least somewhat likely that Jesus will return this year, while 17 percent of Catholics and 10 percent of those with no religion feel the same way.

The poll, conducted Dec. 12-14, was based on telephone interviews with 1,000 adults from all states except Hawaii and Alaska.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/208/story_20828_1.html

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posted April 20, 2007 09:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Effect of socially conservative 'values voters' in question

By Peggy Fikac and Gary Scharrer, The San Antonio Express-News, November 5, 2006

Gov. Rick Perry, campaigning for re-election, sat on a stage at the left hand of San Antonio minister John Hagee on Sunday as the televangelist urged the estimated 90 million viewers of his ministry to go vote Tuesday.

"Go vote. Go vote. ... I believe it is your absolute duty to do that," Hagee said in the 5,000-seat Cornerstone Church. "There are young men in Iraq right now putting their lives on the line to preserve our way of life."

Perry wasn't the only church-going candidate Sunday. Independent Comptroller Carole Keeton Strayhorn won praise from black ministers in Fort Worth.

Democrat Chris Bell, meanwhile, ran in the 5K Race for the Cure in Austin. His wife, Alison, is a survivor of breast cancer.

And independent Kinky Friedman met with hundreds of supporters at a Houston restaurant in the afternoon, saying his election is possible if there is a big turnout.

At the San Antonio church, Hagee introduced Perry without endorsing him. But that alone may have been enough for a governor who has made the social conservatives of Texas the cornerstone of his voter base.

Hagee was a featured speaker last year for the Texas Restoration Project, an effort to organize faith-based voters to cast ballots for a state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and to keep those voters active for this year's elections. Perry attended all six Restoration Project meetings.

But the so-called "values vote" is believed to be dispirited nationally this year because of the congressional failure to pass a national constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and the scandal surrounding former Republican U.S. Rep. Mark Foley of Florida.

David Barton, the former vice chairman of the Texas Republican Party and a national proponent of Christian voting, said there are questions about whether values voters will turn out in other states. He said that is not true in Texas.

"I don't think you'll see a problem here," Barton said.

But Dan Quinn, communications director of the Texas Freedom Network, which dedicates itself to separation of church and state, said Barton and other social conservative leaders expressed doubts about values voter turnout in a conference call with Texas pastors.

That call was posted on the Internet by the social conservative leadership.

In that conference call, Barton says, "There's a lot of discouragement out there, particularly among Christian voters."

Barton tells those on the conference call that if six or eight seats change hands in the Texas House, there will not be enough votes to halt embryonic stem cell research in Texas, to ratify a national gay marriage amendment or ban gay adoptions.

Barton and Kelly Shackelford, president of the Texas Free Market Foundation, also tell listeners to apply Christian values to their votes for candidates for the Texas Supreme Court.

Quinn said social conservative leaders like Barton are trying to make values voting synonymous with voting Republican.

Perry waded into one theological thicket Sunday after listening to Hagee tell his congregation, "If you live your life and don't confess your sins to God Almighty through the authority of Christ and his blood, listen to me, I'm going to say this very plainly -- you are going straight to hell with a nonstop ticket."

Perry said his faith would agree with that.

But he later told a Jewish reporter that only God can decide who goes to heaven or hell.

Bell said Perry's statements were disrespectful toward non-Christians.

"I am a Christian, and Rick Perry is certainly entitled to his beliefs. But if you are in public office, you need to respect people of all faiths and denominations," said Bell, who was campaigning in South and West Texas.

Strayhorn won rousing endorsements from Fort Worth black ministers, who compared her to Barbara Jordan, the late Gov. Ann Richards and civil rights inspiration Rosa Parks.

"This is our Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks sat down, but you are standing up for us," said the Rev. Tom Franklin, pastor at New Mt. Calvary Baptist Church. "I am endorsing this grandmother."

Franklin and other ministers said their endorsements were individual and did not reflect on the church, but it was clear the congregation was along for the ride.

The Rev. Frank Lawson, pastor at Harmony Ministry Baptist Church, told his members to ignore the polls and pundits.

"If we as a people go to the polls and vote, Strayhorn wins," Lawson said. "If we go to the polls and vote, Wednesday morning will seem like Juneteenth. We have a governor that's arrogant. We have (a Legislature) that's greedy. But we have a grandma that's tough and ready to shake up the place."

Strayhorn offered a different interpretation on Scripture than the one Perry heard in San Antonio.

"I believe that we are all sinners, and I believe that there are many ways to get to heaven," Strayhorn said. "We are all God's children."

Asked whether those who don't believe in Jesus are doomed for hell, she said, "Obviously, I disagree."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i included this article to illustrate the level of politics associated with Patrick Hagees' machinations to orchestrate Armageddon. Rick Perry was lieutenant governor under GW Bush and is now governor of texas. his residence remains very close to GW's residence at Crawford ranch, and according to the whitehouse website, GW still visits with Perry in the Texas capitol on occasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Perry

the link between politics and this man-made apocalypse seem very very deep, and are evident and almost inseparable, it seems, from the currnet administration. Ronald Reagan also was very involved in these issues of the apocalypse and biblical prophecy. please recall that GW's father, George Herbert Bush, was vice president under Reagan before serving as president.

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posted May 04, 2007 07:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
no need to worry about the u.s. presence in iraq leaving any time soon...it will remain in order to provide grounds for attack on iran ~

U.S. News & World Report
Friday, May 4, 2007

The US News Political Bulletin has learned Democrats on Capitol Hill are increasingly concerned that President Bush will order air strikes against targets in Iran in the next few months or even weeks. They cite as evidence the tough warnings from senior Administration officials, including the Commander in Chief, that Iranian help for insurgents in Iraq is leading to the deaths of US troops and Iraqi civilians. Democratic insiders tell the Political Bulletin that they suspect Bush will order the bombing of Iranian supply routes, camps, training facilities, and other sites that Administration officials say contribute to American losses in Iraq. Under this scenario, Bush would not invade Iran with ground forces or zero in on Iranian nuclear facilities. But under the limited-bombing scenario, Bush could ask for a congressional vote of support, Democratic insiders predict, which many Democrats would feel obliged to endorse or risk looking like they weren't supportive of the troops. Bombing Iran would also take attention away from the troubled situation in Iraq and cause a rally-round-the-president reaction among Americans, at least for a while. But Democrats add that an attack on Iran would probably be condemned around the world and would precipitate an Iranian response that could dramatically worsen Mideast turmoil and have unforeseen consequences that could be extremely damaging to the United States.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_070201.htm

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posted May 08, 2007 01:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
it is quite distressing to witness religion being used in the pursuit of political gain. isn't going to church about the relationship between God and man, and not political agendas?

it seems that the desire to round up jewish people in israel, as Hagee suggests is 'ordained,' is really an effort to annihilate them in the final 'armageddon'...the war being brewed in the mid-east at this moment.

how convenient then, for the U.S. "christians" then to have complete control over the lucrative natural resources in that area.

it's an interesting perspective, to see war being encouraged between muslims and jews, in order to destroy them both, for such blatant imperialistic goals.

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posted May 11, 2007 04:36 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sen. Patrick walks out on religious tolerance

By Brenda Tso

The sky is falling on the Texas Legislature.

On Wednesday, the Texas Senate came into session with an Islamic prayer. Imam Yusuf Kavacki offered blessings from the Koran on the Senate floor. Sen. Dan Patrick, R-Houston, became so irate that he walked out.

Sen. Kay Shapiro, R-Plano, the state's senior Jewish Senator, had granted the prayer request from the Freedom and Justice Foundation.

In a press release, Sen. Shapiro stated that "Our country prides itself on freedoms, the most relevant today is freedom of religion. In our blessed country, everyone is free to pray according to their religion, and allowing a Muslim to express his freedom demonstrates what we all have in common in the United States."

The Christian majority is now crying discrimination. On the floor, Sen. Patrick stated, "we are a state of nation with freedom of religion under which we are entitled to pray and that is remarkable. But in many parts of the world, Jews and Christians would not be given that same right."

He added, "We are a nation that allows a Muslim to come in with a Koran but does not allow a Christian to take a Bible to school ... We are a Judeo-Christian nation, primarily a Christian nation."

Basically, the senator left the floor because he is proud to be a Christian. He reasoned that since Christian prayers would not be heard in other countries, he should not have to listen to a Muslim prayer in the United States.

Never mind that two wrongs don't make a right. Never mind that doing as he did makes us exactly like those nations he vilifies. Never mind that the Senate opens with a Christian prayer just about every single day, during which senators of other religions have sat patiently and respectfully.

Granted, the majority of people in the U.S. are Christian, but ours is a nation founded upon majority rule and minority voice. Everyone has an equal right to be heard and to practice as they wish. Americans have a basic respect for every voice and every religion.

Sen. Patrick is wrong in stating that Christians are persecuted. The Constitution, both nationally and in Texas, is there to prevent a single religion from overshadowing, dominating and silencing. A Christian child can bring a Bible into school, and a Muslim child can also bring a Koran. Limiting prayer in school is not about attacking the Christian majority, it is about protecting those who are different and in the minority.

The United States was founded on right to differ. How can prayer be lead when we are not all the same, do not pray to the same god and do not pray for the same things? Protestant majorities currently arguing for prayer in schools would be furious if a Catholic prayer was imposed. Things look different from a minority standpoint.

Sen. Patrick has no right to infer that a Christian American is more American than a Jewish- American, a Muslim-American, a Buddhist-American or even an atheist American. That is like assuming blonde Americans are more American than redheaded Americans, simply because more of them exist.

I would have thought that having a minority-religion-led prayer in the Senate would open people's minds. I would have imagined that it would remind us all that we have all been a minority at one point or another. Immigrating Irish ancestors were ridiculed; so were Italians. Upon founding this country, Christians of particular denominations sought religious freedom from other Christian denominations.

I find that people like Sen. Patrick still refuse to see the big picture. Religion in America is about being open-minded and tolerant, because majorities can change. Majorities can become minorities, and the only way to ensure freedom is to extend it to others.

http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2007/04/06/Opinion/Sen-Patrick.Walks.Out.On.Religious.Tolerance-2827709.shtml

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posted May 12, 2007 01:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
could government + evangelical christians + science be working together to orchestrate their own Rapture? given the previous evidence of the current administration's close ties to the apocalyptic machinations of the evangelicals, it does not seem such an unlikely event, as amazing as it is to ponder such a thing. please remember that Ronald Reagan was very much a believer in armageddon resulting from political events during his administration. quite a few people admit that his wife Nancy went to great lengths to convince him not to instigate what he believed would be a nuclear armageddon. remember the enormous amount of money his administration invested in the "star wars" initiatives? the following very well could be a continuing part of that work that continues behind the scenes. also please recall that George Bush Sr., father of George Bush Jr., current president, was vice president to Ronald Reagan.

in light of the political/religious efforts at ushering in armageddon in this thread, it seems that the following could indeed be part of the "Rapture" plan that government/christians seem so convinced will happen ~

If We Destroy Our Planet
Will science find us a new one?

By Dawn Stover | September 2006

Scientists are exploiting one of Einstein’s predictions to find Earth-like planets around other stars—planets that might even support Earth-like life. Let the evacuation plans begin!
WHAT: A way to spot Earth-size planets orbiting distant stars. Traditional techniques can’t find small, rocky planets. But a new strategy called gravitational micro-lensing uses the bending of light to detect those elusive ersatz Earths. With it, astro- nomers have already found four new planets. The latest, located in Scorpio, is an icy orb only 5.5 times as massive as Earth—the smallest exosolar planet spotted orbiting a normal star.

WHY: To determine whether we are alone in the universe. We’re much more likely to find life on a rocky planet than on a gas giant like Jupiter—and if the human race needs to find a new home in the future, rocky exosolar planets will probably be our destination. Also, some scientists theorize that small, solid planets outnumber gas giants (10:1 is a conservative estimate), but until now they couldn’t test that hypothesis.

WHERE: All across the globe. A loose network of astronomers point their telescopes at the center of our galaxy, where they can see many stars at once. Because gravitational-microlensing events happen over the course of 10 to 40 days, research teams on different continents record data as dawn—and the end of viable observation time— approaches for their cohorts.

WHO: Two international teams of scientists, based in Chile and New Zealand and assisted by hundreds of volunteer astronomers, look for microlensing events across huge swaths of sky. They alert each other of probable events by Web and e-mail.

FAQs

How many planets have been found?
Around 200. Most have been spotted by looking for wobbles in a star’s motion that are caused by the gravitational attraction of a planet. But since this method preferentially finds huge planets that orbit close to their suns, it’s turned up mostly “hot Jupiters.”

Are any of them earth-like?
Not yet. Microlensing has found four small, solid planets. But they are too far away from their suns—and thus too cold —to support life. (The Scorpio planet is estimated to be a bitter –364°F.) But future finds may fall within habitable zones of solar systems. If launched in 2012, NASA’s proposed Microlensing Planet Finder— a space telescope designed to census our galaxy—would have a better chance of detecting planets in this zone.

Have we seen any rocky planets?
No. They are too dim to see, even with powerful telescopes.

Can I help in the Planet search?
Sure, if you live south of 35 degrees north latitude (Memphis, Tennessee) and own a telescope with a 10-inch aperture equipped with a CCD detector. Readers interested in joining the effort should contact Andrew Gould at gould@astronomy.ohio-state.edu.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/ca24eb6bc704d010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html

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posted May 12, 2007 03:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh well, that's just speculation of course....though, if there is indeed a planet, or planets even, in the preparation stages, or already developed, i'm quite certain that such a thing would remain hidden from public knowledge.

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posted August 04, 2007 05:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bush Keeps Israel Close, Saudi Arabia Closer
Posted on Jul 31, 2007
By Robert Scheer

Go figure: From the White House comes the news that self-styled anti-terrorism crusader George Bush wants to sell $20 billion in high-tech military equipment to Saudi Arabia, the source of most of the financing, and 15 of the 19 hijackers, for the Sept. 11th terrorist attacks on the United States. The justification can’t be that this is yet another boondoggle for the military-industrial complex—the big winner in the war on terror—so we are told instead that the Sunni-dominated Saudi kingdom needs this weaponry to withstand a future challenge from those dastardly Shiite fellows in Iran.

Yes, the very same extremists whose surrogates are now, as a consequence of the U.S. invasion, pretending to be the indigenous government of Iraq. Recall that the Shiite militants who rule Tehran, along with the Sunni nuts around Osama bin Laden, were both the sworn enemy of Saddam Hussein. Now both of those forces are the main players, according to the Bush administration, vying for power in “liberated” Iraq, and our president is in the inane position of playing one group of fanatics against the other in the name of securing Iraq as a democratic haven.

White House officials told The New York Times that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates intend to use the occasion of their joint visit to Saudi Arabia “to press the Saudis to do more to help Iraq’s Shiite-dominated government.” Huh? Why in the world would the Sunnis, who control Saudi Arabia and are frightened to their bones of Shiites throughout the Gulf, be party to consolidating Shiite power in Iraq?

To complete the circle of madness, White House officials tell reporters that the hope of the latest arms sale program is that the Saudis will be so thrilled with their new weapons that they will stop funding the Sunni insurgents who are currently killing Americans. The absurdity of this position is that it makes the Saudis the big winners in the war on terror and yet expects them to cut out behavior that has played so effectively to the kingdom’s advantage. The nation which was most directly responsible for spawning the original al-Qaida attacks on the U.S., and which has since helped finance the violence in Iraq, is now being rewarded with a long-sought weapons modernization package. Thus, a new generation of deadly toys finds its way into the volatile Mideast.

Embarrassing facts undermining Bush’s insistence that Iraq is the key battleground in the war on terror are that al-Qaida, which was not allowed a presence in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, is now said by Bush to be behind the insurgency and that half of the foreign suicide bombers have been Saudi nationals. Why would the Saudis now move to stem the flow of terrorists across their border when Bush is rewarding them so handsomely for their past support of terrorism? After all, this administration has never demanded an accounting from the Saudis for the kingdom’s support of the Taliban government when it was coddling Saudi terrorist financer bin Laden. Nor has Bush’s camp ordered any serious examination of just how 15 Saudi “soldiers” were recruited, and provided with legitimate Saudi passports and American visas, to commit the mayhem for which the Iraqi people have been so severely punished.

While the $20-billion weapons package will no doubt be supported vigorously by lobbyists for a defense industry that stands to make a financial killing from the deal, it is expected to meet opposition in Congress, particularly from those who fear the impact of this new weaponry on the security of Israel. No problem—“senior officials” in the White House assured The New York Times that the Saudi arms package would be balanced with a $30.4-billion military aid package for Israel. Then, of course, some large amount of military “aid,” to the tune of $13 billion, will also have to be extended to Egypt to keep the dictator in Cairo on board.

What a deal! The Saudis pony up billions in cash, American taxpayers come up with an amount more than twice as high to keep the Israelis and Egyptians happy, and U.S. war profiteers, Bush’s most reliable core constituency group, make out like bandits. Hey, it’s only money, and the only real cost might be to folks who get caught in the line of fire of those weapons in wars to come for generations. But not to worry, most of them don’t vote in U.S. elections anyway.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070731_scheer_saudi_arms_deal/

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