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Author Topic:   will jwhop ever shut up?
praecipua
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posted January 18, 2008 11:42 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
one hundred!!!!!!!!!!!!

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praecipua
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posted January 18, 2008 11:43 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote





tada!!!!!!!!

thanks guys for all your comments, from both views. you made my day!

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pidaua
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Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 18, 2008 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is so weird! Besides, I thought the new goal was to get to 200?

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TINK
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posted January 18, 2008 12:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is a good idea, eleanore. I can sing the praises of Italy for hours. At least a hundred posts, if not more.

And I would love to hear some Germany stories. Bavaria in particular is on my To Do List.

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pidaua
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Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 18, 2008 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TINK,

You would love Bavaria. We live in a town outside of Schweinfurt called Schwebenried. Our house is just outside of the village and hidden in the tree line. With the warmer weather recently, the fields are starting to green up and I can't wait until Spring (if we stay here). We are due to move to Grafenwohr within a few months, but it is still in Bavaria. We'll be very close to the Czech border and only 2 1/2 hours from Prague.

I also thought Weisbaden was beautiful when we went down there, especially some of the outlying towns- Ingleheim is gorgeous.

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praecipua
unregistered
posted January 18, 2008 12:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
if you want, you can go to 200, it's eleanore who mentioned that some topics could go further than one hundred sometimes. but it didn't happen to me yet. so you see why i'm happy, it's the first with one of my topics.

it's just a bit sad it's for this kind of topics and not for the one i posted in Health and Healing concerning much deeper and personnal issues. but anyway, on the topic i posted there, i might mot have had many replies but they were all very precious.

less is more!

but that doesn't mean we shouldn't celebrate the quantity as well.

now if you want to carry on to 200, feel free, but it will be without me. whatever you might reply. i'm done on this topic.

have a good day to all!!!

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SattvicMoon
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posted January 18, 2008 12:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, I am in to touch the 200 mark!

Here......

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SattvicMoon
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posted January 18, 2008 12:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
one more

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SattvicMoon
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posted January 18, 2008 12:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and more......

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SattvicMoon
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posted January 18, 2008 12:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and more............. and more....... to come

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SattvicMoon
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posted January 18, 2008 12:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Phew! I might be bored, get back to work Moonie! Turn up the volume of that AC/DC record you are playing now.

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AcousticGod
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Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 18, 2008 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
But the idea that one of those “bad people” is jwhop is incorrect?

Let me ask you, are these discussions ever about deciding who's a "bad person?" No, they are always about bad behavior. You know this, but instead of taking heed of it you hatched a plan to make Jwhop out to be a bad person, and you stuck with that theme while I never went along with you. Do you see any flaw in what I'm saying?

quote:
I did ask you a direct question and really was expecting a direct answer.
You see, the need for any inferences would have not existed if you had just been, well, direct.

You did receive a direct answer (I qualified an example of a good person who has chastised Jwhop). You just discarded it as it didn't suit where you wanted to go. Perhaps it was an expectation in your mind that things would go according to how you thought they would or should be. I called it an attempt at entrapment, and the way you played it out -it appears that I was indeed correct in that assumption. Once again instead of recognizing that these conversations are always about poor behavior, you turned it into good people versus bad people.

quote:
are they wholly good in your eyes? Were you trying to say that there were people here who are “mostly” good. Mostly is an important word there, you see. Going with the whole shades idea. And if so, are there no wholly bad people here in your eyes?

I've already answered this question for you, and I was as clear and direct as I could possibly be:

There are all kinds of shades in between, however. Some people are bad in one area, and good in another. - Me

I reitterated later:

Could I not easily prove anyone here has essentially the same sentiments [Good, Bad, and loads of shades of in between]?

The fact that you ask again proves that you haven't been interested in hearing me. We're now up to two items where you've asked a question, gotten an answer, and not paid attention to the answer received.

I'd like to respond to the rest, but I have to go now.

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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 18, 2008 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Here we see a statement that is clearly in opposition to the observable truth. I didn't start this thread, nor did I recruit anyone to this thread.....acoustic


Hmmm, I didn't accuse you of starting this thread acoustic. I merely noted your tendency to reach out for help from others who might agree with you when you're getting trounced. In this case, you've noted all the people who have disagreed with something or all I've said in the past....as though that gives your own argument additional weight. What you fail to understand...and may be incapable of understanding is that each and every argument must stand on it's own merit....or, fall apart as your arguments always do.

quote:
Hmmm...something like only reading conservative news, or listening to conservative talk radio, or posting conservative's articles when they align with your thinking? Is that the kind of thing you're talking about?....acoustic


Not much hope for those who cannot reason, logically discern and analyze AFTER they've been shown the error of their argument acoustic. I did post on this forum the total number of articles from one of those news sites you repeatedly mention...and the breakdown of where they originated. As I recall, the breakdown was that more than 70% of articles appearing there were a combination of Associated Press, Reuters, NY Times, Boston Globe, LA Times and other leftist news sources. Hell acoustic, I've even posted some of those articles here...when the Times, AP, Reuters...or others screwed up royally and actually got something right.

quote:
Have you noticed...everyone leaves me to it when I get involved in a debate. Also, have you noticed all these people who have come out on your behalf to try to bolster your position here? and the irony just gets thicker and thicker....acoustic


Gee acoustic, in case you haven't noticed, there are some here attempting to pull you out of the pit you've been busily digging for yourself. Hahaha, I doubt they would appreciate your comment....they've left you all alone.

Of course I appreciate the members who have spoken out. I'm sure...pretty sure...some of what I say or perhaps the way I choose to say it....puts their teeth on edge. But I also think they don't at all like unfairness...or the suggestion that a member here should just shut the hell up. We've had this "shut up" discussion before. Most of us thought it was settled long ago that members have the right to post their opinions...and other members have the right to comment of what's been said. "Shut Up" is hardly appropriate on a discussion/debate forum. It generally means the persons making that remark/suggestion can't think of anything else to say.

quote:
Great! You should follow that link and relive the magic by all means. It's not about whether you were speaking to Paras or not (where'd you get that notion?). She had a very clear message for you that's been echoed time and time again, and will continue to echo on for as long as you continue to act like yourself.....acoustic


Where did I get the notion I was speaking to paras....acoustic? Listen, 26T is astute enough to know exactly whom was being spoken to/about...no matter whom it appeared was being addressed. I notice, yet again you attempt to ring in another member to bolster your non existent argument. Should I make a list of all the members who have disagreed with something you've said...acoustic?

lalalinda


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jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 18, 2008 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
acoustic...don't ever let yourself get carried away with the idea you get to determine what is good behavior...or what is bad.

You don't ever want to go there with me. I've got a hell of a memory...which includes what you've upchucked on this forum.

If I were you acoustic, I'd take the discussion in an entirely different direction.

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ListensToTrees
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posted January 18, 2008 02:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't read any of the posts here, I just want to say the title of the thread amuses me- I find it cheeky and impish!

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AcousticGod
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Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 18, 2008 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
In this case, you've noted all the people who have disagreed with something or all I've said in the past....as though that gives your own argument additional weight.

It doesn't give my argument additional weight, it gives every one of those people's argument weight. You misunderstand if you make it about numbers, because the point is the continuous cycle. Everyone who has ever previously criticized you could leave the site altogether, and you could observe the cycle repeat. Same action, same result.

quote:
We've had this "shut up" discussion before.

Exactly my point.
quote:
I did post on this forum the total number of articles from one of those news sites you repeatedly mention...and the breakdown of where they originated. As I recall, the breakdown was that more than 70% of articles appearing there were a combination of Associated Press, Reuters, NY Times, Boston Globe, LA Times and other leftist news sources.

First, when did you do this?

Second, did you tally up your own postings from anywhere?

Do you have a link?

quote:
Listen, 26T is astute enough to know exactly whom was being spoken to/about...no matter whom it appeared was being addressed.

You still obviously aren't getting it.

quote:
There are also alot of us who have opposing views to 'jwhop and his crew's' views. And we have also "backed up statments with quotes, articles and statistics that can call be found online and therefore properly sourced." But those have seemed to have been forgotten about. Or overlooked...ignored? Nooo...all of the quotes, articles and statistics that dont fit in with the certain line of thinking that goes on here are false -- they're all made up, of course!

And it's not about "go pound sand, I am too busy to dig up facts". Facts have been found and posted here - over and over again. But when they dont fit in with certain people's points of veiw, they are disregarded. And it becomes pointless and tiring. I played that game here for awhile and I'm done.

There were alot of people who shared similar views to many of us here, that have dissapeared. I wonder why? They've made countless numbers of intelligent posts - that can also be "backed up" - but were ridiculed for their views. This is not a friendly forum. That - sadly - is why the more intelligent people, tend to stay out of it. - 26T


Does that make it any clearer?

quote:
You don't ever want to go there with me. I've got a hell of a memory...which includes what you've upchucked on this forum.

You do have a hell of a selective memory. I'll grant you that...and that alone.

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dafremen
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posted January 18, 2008 03:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Haven't been able to resist the words "cheeky" and "impish" together in the same sentence for 25 years. Wasn't about to start now. Man that was a charming comment LTT! Something worth reading..I've been skipping over most of this crap.

daf

P.S. This thread stopped being cheeky pages ago. Now it's just mentally challenged.
(Upon deeper reflection, that's probably selling mentally challenged people short by miles.)

(TINK: your production of "Bizarro-World JwHop" from A.G.'s reactions was inspired and beneath you..but inspired. You're making me laugh. Not fair.)

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 22, 2008 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

One wonders how you reason acoustic...as well as with what you reason.

quote:
It doesn't give my argument additional weight, it gives every one of those people's argument weight...acostic
.
There are 11 peaple in a room acoustic. 10 of those people insist 2+2=5. Obviously, by your reasoning person #11 who insists 2+2=4 is wrong...and the other 10 are right...right?

quote:
Exactly my point....acoustic

Oh, if only you actually ever had a valid point..even after I sent you to some sites where you could select a point, you still haven't found one yet.


quote:
First, when did you do this?

I posted the information on the percentage make up of articles from those news sources you drool over..which make up the bulk of articles on sites you despise a long, long time ago acoustic. Don't attempt to say you weren't here and didn't see it. Well, I guess it could just be written off to a poor memory on your part..which would explain a whole lot of your problems.

quote:
Second, did you tally up your own postings from anywhere?....acoustic

I seem to recall it was the World Net Daily site from which I took all the articles for a usual day...found the copyright, did the math and determined that 70% were direct, unaltered reprinted news articles from the various MSM sources you adore.


quote:
You still obviously aren't getting it.

Sure acoustic, I get it totally. You're attempting to bring a member...who is not here...not part of this discussion, into play on your side. As I've said before acoustic, those who must run to others for help, for approval or for positive strokes are weak personalities...especially if they happen to be posing as men. The fact there are those who disagree with me is immaterial. I asked you once acoustic, would you like me to post some comments from those who disagree with you..or who have in the past ripped you royally? Should their comments..which are not at all flattering to you be taken as proof there's something wrong with you?

quote:
You do have a hell of a selective memory. I'll grant you that...and that alone....acoustic

Gee acoustic, I've stored in my personal memory...not on the computer...enough of your bullshiiit remarks, goofs, nonsense and other forms of inadequate, intemperate, assinine, dufus like statements to last me a lifetime. Wanna see some?

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AcousticGod
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Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 22, 2008 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
There are 11 peaple in a room acoustic. 10 of those people insist 2+2=5. Obviously, by your reasoning person #11 who insists 2+2=4 is wrong...and the other 10 are right...right?

Your premise is off. For it to be correct, you'd have to have a monopoly on being right, which you don't.

Once again, even the people who come to your defense admit that they can see your detractor's perspective on the matter, so really the only person in denial about you is you.

quote:
I posted the information on the percentage make up of articles from those news sources you drool over

Since when do I drool over news sources? A bit dramatic there.

quote:
Don't attempt to say you weren't here and didn't see it. Well, I guess it could just be written off to a poor memory on your part..which would explain a whole lot of your problems.

Well, find it and show it to me. Let's find out for certain if it's my poor memory or yours.

quote:
I seem to recall it was the World Net Daily site from which I took all the articles for a usual day...found the copyright, did the math and determined that 70% were direct, unaltered reprinted news articles from the various MSM sources you adore.

You're saying that I saw this, and let it pass unquestioned? Well, now I'm really curious to see this old post of yours. I can tell you sight unseen that I reject the notion that WorldNetDaily got your pieces from MSM.

quote:
I asked you once acoustic, would you like me to post some comments from those who disagree with you..or who have in the past ripped you royally? Should their comments..which are not at all flattering to you be taken as proof there's something wrong with you?

I'm glad that you get it.

As to your question, some people have attempted to rip me royally right here in this thread, and it's given me some pause and some introspection. After also looking over some of our previous discussions about you I'm pretty certain that a lot of it stems from those discussions. Our last discussion was on whether or not it was more peaceful here without you. All kinds of people attempted to speak in your defense, but when it came back to my simple argument there wasn't a defense that could prove otherwise. It is precisely because I nor anyone else steps into your shoes that this place goes quiet when you're not around. If I'm not stepping into your shoes, then how can I possibly be equatable to you? The simple answer is that I'm not.

quote:
Gee acoustic, I've stored in my personal memory...not on the computer...enough of your bullshiiit remarks, goofs, nonsense and other forms of inadequate, intemperate, assinine, dufus like statements to last me a lifetime. Wanna see some?

I'm certain they'd be the same ones you trot out whenever you feel threatened. As I've said before, what I've said is a matter of record here. Anyone can go back and look at what I've said and the conversations we've had. I don't mind.

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BlueRoamer
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Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 22, 2008 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
118 posts and Jwhop still hasn't shut up!???

JEEZ!!!

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 26, 2008 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Well, find it and show it to me. Let's find out for certain if it's my poor memory or yours.....acoustic

Your memory can always be depended on...to fail acoustic.

Now, if you think I'm going to read through almost 4000 topics on this forum and about 57,000 posts to find the breakdown I posted on where articles originate which are reprinted on WND...and how many are in house, then you're even nuttier than I already think you are.

This is the breakdown from today...January 26, 2008. These are articles only, no advertisers either external or internal are included.

82 Total articles

26 World Net Daily
56 other sources

26 divided by 80=32
56 divided by 80=68

World Net Daily article breakdown.

32% World Net Daily
68% Other sources....just as I said in the first place acoustic..about 70% of articles on WND are from other sources

World Net Daily articles
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59902
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59890
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59889
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59892
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59903
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59876
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59882
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59907
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59888
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59896
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59884
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59864
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59029
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59909
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59894
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58295
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59891
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59865
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59898
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59899
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59895
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59908
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59901
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59906
http://worldnetdaily.com/letters.asp
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59875

Pg 1 of 2

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 26, 2008 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Page 2

Articles on WND from other sources on January 26, 2008
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/393729.html
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/393729.html
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4192358&page=1
http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/759420%2C012508clinton.article
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2529810820 080125?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true
http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-ap-jacobson0125%2C0%2C4454445.story
http://www.examiner.com/a-1179422~Indicted_talk_show_host_plans_to_challenge_porn_l aws.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/bbc-bids-to-suppress-study-on-middle -east-bias-774282.html
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C1706952%2C00.html
http://www.examiner.com/a-1167196~Abortion__buffer_zone__challenged_as_unconstitut ional.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/techno logy.html?in_article_id=510468&in_page_id=1965
http://www.wptz.com/news/15139105/detail.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4176434&page=1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C325463%2C00.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5484659.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/25/2146629.htm?section=australia
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3254069.ece
http://en.rian.ru/science/20080122/97519953.html
http://www.bnd.com/239/story/237214.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080125/ap_on_bi_ge/france_societe_ge nerale%3B_ylt%3DAjmp5aIbIfl1Vq7tTEfPzMmoOrgF
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080125/ap_on_bi_ge/france_societe_ge nerale%3B_ylt%3DAjmp5aIbIfl1Vq7tTEfPzMmoOrgF
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jan/25/europeanbanks.banking
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-22539009.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/24/news/economy/barr_interest.fortune/index.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a8IqhW7SVWyg&refer=us
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/AvoidAnAudit/FedsCrackDownOnTaxProtesters. aspx
http://www.examiner.com/a-1178299~Calif__court__Bosses_can_fire_worker s_for_using_medical_marijuana.html
http://www.examiner.com/a-1180402~Tenants_at_DC_apartment_building_refu se_to_pay_renovation_charge.html
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOnBhYjfnLmUnVELz3DdOrKEGxvgD8UD64J00
http://www.ksdk.com/money/business_article.aspx?storyid=139053
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C325285%2C00.html
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/story/ADAFF685D 0CACCE9862573D800154D28?OpenDocument
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/25/AR2008012502100.html
http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=7769336&nav=menu86_3
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3498836%2C00.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4191953&page=1
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080125/NEWS/80125011/100 1/
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/15125363/detail.html
http://www.komotv.com/news/14307017.html
http://www.local6.com/news/15135486/detail.html
http://www.wwltv.com/topstories/stories/wwl012408tpnoose.5455d6a8.html
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/P EOPLE_DANNY_GLOVER?SITE=FLPAP&SECTION=ENTERTAINMENT&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-01-24-20-35-00
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation/AP/story/393503.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/26/wmuss126.xml
http://www.ocala.com/article/20080124/BREAKING_NEWS/790471096/1053/BREAKING_NEWS
http://www.komotv.com/news/national/14181217.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/womenfamily.h tml?in_article_id=510308&in_page_id=1799
http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=l ead&lang=en&length=long&idelement=&backpage=&critere=&countryname=&rowcur=
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_arti cle_id=510440&in_page_id=1
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/351-01252008-1477265.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/26/wblood126.xml
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3254148.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/01/25/eadolphin125.xml
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0%2C1518%2C531023%2C00.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/348200_dirt22.html
http://www.newswithviews.com/West/marsha61.htm

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lioneye68
unregistered
posted January 27, 2008 03:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, Kids! Will jwhop ever shut up?
I hope not.

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SattvicMoon
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posted January 27, 2008 03:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.... and what is the point?

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lioneye68
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posted January 27, 2008 04:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fostering critical thinking, for those who are capeable. Of course it's lost on those who are blatently anti-America.

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