posted April 16, 2008 01:58 PM            

quote:

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If Israel proposed the very same thing..Israel will not attack Hamas targets except in retaliation for attacks by Hamas for up to 10 years, however Israel will not recognize the right of any Palestinian state to exist; then Xodian, you would be railing about the extremism of Israelis

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Jwhop; Not only have you missed the bottom line of the discussion, you are parating a statement that we just discussed about verily and yet you still hold on to it for no good reason. Did I not just say the difference between the moderate faction and the militant faction of Hamas? Did I just not descibe how they are willing to go for the idea of a two state policy? Did I not just tell you that the militants will not need to exist if there was a seperate state of Palestine?

posted April 18, 2008 04:23 PM            

Let's see, Israel is supposed to agree to a Palestinian state next to Israel? A Palestinian state with a terrorist government, the charter of which says that Israel doesn't have the right to exist and that Israel should be destroyed and Israeli citizens killed?

You've got to be kidding me Xodian. That's a fools agreement from the Israeli standpoint.

posted April 20, 2008 11:16 AM            

Hamas and other terrorist groups have killed more Palestinian civilians deliberately than Israel has killed accidentially while retaliating against terrorist attacks by these terrorists.

The Palestinian people need to get themselves together, remove Hamas and other terrorist organizations from power, restrain them by whatever means is necessary and write a Palestinian Charter which does not deny Israel the right to exist.

posted April 21, 2008 11:39 PM            

Let me head you off Xodian and tell you straight out. Hamas claimed a military victory and used the vacated territory to launch missile attacks on Israeli cities and Israeli civilians.

There is not going to be peace in the area. First, Hamas doesn't want peace. They want to destroy Israel. Second Xodian Iran, the principle backer of Hamas will not permit it.

You must think the people of Israel are totally nuts Xodian...or totally stupid.

posted April 22, 2008 08:23 AM            

a) Since it will be a negotiated deal between Israel and the Palestinian moderates, Israel will end up gaining a valuable ally on the political front which will certainly see the best interest in both states by creating a prolonged trade agreement.

b) The vicotry will not be seen upon a military front since Hamas' main goal obviously was not achieved and the people, who are already weary of the prolonged conflict in the region (remember that they voted Hamas into power because of the fact that Fatah was laden with corruption and they were no better then the extremist Hamas groups.) Now that they will see that Israel is definaltely willing to leave the disputed territories, they can work in tendon with Israelis rather then both sides staying put in fear over a next plausible attack.

posted April 22, 2008 11:12 PM            

Certainly those you term "moderates" overwhelmingly elected the terrorist organization Hamas to power. There is no room to doubt that since the percentage vote for Hamas was overwhelming.

Now Xodian, you keep repeating your broken records defense of Hamas which is in no way a "moderate" organization..neither the so called military wing or the political wing.

The leader of the political wing is in hiding outside of the Palestinian territory. He's wanted for murder in Israel for his terrorist activities.

posted April 23, 2008 11:59 PM            

"But they need asking, again, in light of the recent remarks of Abbas Zaki, the Palestinian Authority's ambassador to Lebanon on Lebanese television.

This longtime veteran of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, a pioneer in terrorism along with his late comrade in arms, Yasser Arafat, announced publicly – in Arabic, of course – what all Palestinian Authority leaders say when they let their hair down.

He showed, once again, the only difference between the Mahmoud Abbas-led Palestinian Authority, supported financially and militarily by Israeli and American taxpayers, and the Iranian-backed radical Islamists of Hamas in the Gaza Strip is one of tactics and strategy. Hamas makes no secret of its plans to destroy Israel and makes no pretense toward negotiated settlements of the conflict between Arabs and Israelis. The Palestinian Authority makes a pretense.

But that pretense is often shattered when you eavesdrop on Palestinian Authority leaders when they speak in Arabic to their own constituents. They always tell the same story: Their effort to negotiate over the creation of a Palestinian state is merely a tactical matter. In no way does it suggest they are "selling out" the PLO commitment to destroy Israel, kill all the Jews and establish a larger Palestinian state encompassing all of the land of Israel.

"When Israel's ideology will collapse, and after we take Jerusalem, Israel's ideology will collapse altogether, and then we will proceed with out own ideology, if Allah wills, and we will throw them out of all of Palestine," he said, according to a translation by the Middle East Media Research Institute.

Zaki reiterated that "the right of return (for millions of Arabs and their descendants who left Israel in 1948 and 1967) is guaranteed by our will by our weapons and by our faith."

"The important thing is that in any operation, Israel will pay a price," he said. "We don't want cases in which you don't kill even a chicken, but Israel kills 20 of you. I salute any operation that makes Israel pay a heavy price."

How many times must we hear words like this, read them, watch them being uttered, before we stop pretending there are peace-loving, freedom-loving leaders in the fantasy land of Palestine worth supporting?

There is no substantive difference between Abbas' PA, which the U.S. and Israel support as a "peace partner," and the fanatical killers in Hamas who control the Gaza Strip. Perhaps the only real difference is the level of honesty with which they articulate their goals and strategy.

This charade with the PLO has been going on for 15 years. When are we going to learn?

The PLO has not changed its stripes. Tragically, it never will. It is still committed to the destruction of Israel and the extermination of all Jews. Tragically, it always will be.

posted April 24, 2008 03:46 AM            

Two years ago, Hatem El-Hady was the chairman of the Toledo, Ohio-based Islamic charity, Kindhearts, which was closed by the US government in February 2006 for terrorist fundraising and all its assets frozen. Today, El-Hady has redirected his fundraising efforts for his newest cause - Barack Obama for President.

El-Hady has his own dedicated page on Barack Obama's official website, chronicling his fundraising on behalf of the Democratic Party presidential candidate (his Obama profile established on February 19, 2008 - two years to the day after Kindhearts was raided by the feds). Not only that, but he has none other than Barack Obama's wife, Michelle Obama, listed as one of his friends (one of her 224 listed friends).

But his leadership of Kindhearts is not the only thing that has brought him scrutiny by federal law enforcement officials. Last summer, El-Hady was questioned by the FBI concerning his knowledge of possible conspirators in a UK-based terror plot.

Hatem El-Hady's interest in "change" is understandable. Following the closure of Kindhearts, he said in response to the government's closure of his organization:

"It's dirty politics," said Dr. Hatem Elhady, chairman of the board of KindHearts, which raised $5.1 million in 2004. "They do not like the way things are going in Palestine. They do not like the election results. But that is not our problem. Our problem is providing aid to people in desperate need of help."

The Department of Justice had a very different version of events. According to the DOJ, Kindhearts assumed the role of lead terrorist fundraising in the US after the government had closed other such Islamic "charities":

"KindHearts is the progeny of Holy Land Foundation and Global Relief Foundation, which attempted to mask their support for terrorism behind the façade of charitable giving," said Stuart Levey, Treasury Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence.

Not only was Kindhearts engaged in providing funds for HAMAS in Lebanon and the West Bank, it had hired as a fundraising specialist the man identified as the designated HAMAS bag man in the US, Mohammed El-Mezain.

And as investigative reporter Joe Kaufman revealed, "The Black Hearts of Kindhearts", a number of other Kindhearts officials were tied to terrorist fundraising and support:

KindHearts’ Director of Domestic Programs, Khalifah Ramadan. Ramadan was a training and evaluation consultant for the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) and the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), two large Muslim organizations based in the United States that have links to overseas terror groups.

KindHearts’ Representaive, Omar Shahin. Shahin was an Imam for the Islamic Center of Tucson (ICT), the former home of numerous terror operatives, including Wael Jelaidan, who later helped found Al-Qaeda.

KindHearts’ Representative, Wagdy Ghuneim. Ghuneim, an Egyptian cleric, has been featured in KindHearts fundraising dinners for 2002, 2003 and 2004. During a rally at Brooklyn College, in May of 1998, Ghuneim attempted to persuade the crowd to support violent jihad and labeled Jews as “descendants of the apes.”

KindHearts’ Representative, Hatem Bazian. Bazian is an Islamic Studies instructor and a member of the faculty of Near Eastern Studies at UC Berkley. In April of 2004, during a San Francisco anti-war rally, Bazian, a native Palestinian, called for an “intifada” against the United States. This was just two months prior to Bazian being featured in a KindHearts Fundraising Dinner, entitled ‘Palestinians in agony!’

KindHearts’ Manager in Lebanon, Haytham Maghawri (a.k.a. Haytham Fawri). Maghawri, the past Social Services Director for HLF, according to the Treasury Department, “collected [KindHearts] funds and sent them to Hamas and other Salafi groups.” [One of the recipients of KindHearts funding was Specially Designated Global Terrorist (SDGT) Usama Hamdan, a leader of Hamas in Lebanon.

And two months before Kindhearts closure by the US government, Beila Rabinowitz had revealed that the South Asia Division Coordinator for Kindhearts, Zulfiqar Ali Shah, had known ties to al-Qaeda, even conducting a 10-day tour with officials for the Tablighi Jamaat organization, which the New York Times had described as "a springboard for militancy" and a "recruitment" center for Al-Qaeda.

posted April 24, 2008 08:11 PM            

Yes I know that Abbas isn't in power but he has enough influence in the region to charge a better outlook upon which Hamas may have to follow if they do not want to incite a civil war and if your memory should serve you correctly Jwhop, that is one of the MAIN reasons why the Fatah party lost to Hamas in the elections (apart from Araft's legacy of corruption and scandle.)

No Jwhop, Israel isn't filled with fools; They are smart enough to understand that prolonged conflict in the region isn't gonna benifit anyone and in no way will it serve to place a long term sercirity within the region.