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Author
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Topic: Passion of the Christ?
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talaith
Knowflake Posts: 120
From:
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted April 13, 2004 11:17 PM
 
thanks for elaborating raine. i haven't seen this movie and i don't plan to, for all the reasons you mention. and you put it well, when you said wouldn't Jesus be driving the money changers out of the theater.  i haven't heard before what you said about people's bloodthirst being fed by this movie, although i vaguely thought there might be something like that involved. this movie has felt so wrong....i couldn't exactly say before..... i'm glad to know that it didn't infiltrate your heart..... man of peace -- indeed!  IP: Logged |
raine6
Knowflake Posts: 64
From: Waterloo, IA United States trailingclouds@yahoo.com
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted April 13, 2004 11:31 PM
thank you talaith. you know, i used to like mel gibson...but i did get a little suspicious of his motives way back when he was making fun of conspiracy theories on a talk show. it just seemed too "political"it took a while to observe this escalation in the level of violence, but i challenge people to watch for it in their own realms and see for yourself. it seems that the true followers of the christ are the ones who do not call themselves by his name, and are taunted by the "christians" who are calling for more blood. they act as though peace were a bad thing. go figure--or not, it will drive you mad 
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talaith
Knowflake Posts: 120
From:
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted April 13, 2004 11:53 PM
i liked mel gibson too.did you see his movie about conspiracy theories? kinda interesting. i wonder if he made that after the interview you mention. i think with conspiracy theories, you can endorse one in order to combat another. perhaps that's his gig? IP: Logged |
raine6
Knowflake Posts: 64
From: Waterloo, IA United States trailingclouds@yahoo.com
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted April 14, 2004 12:10 AM
actually, he was interviewed while the movie was coming out. if anyone mocks the idea of conspiracies, they ought to just read a history book!i loved the cartoon that showed bush in bed with these two guys, and was reading a book called "gay marriage" and saying how uncomfortable it made him feel...one of the guys was "big oil" and the other was "big polluters" do people think we actually like being conspiracy theorists? who would not want to snuggle up to some peace being declared? if only that were true...oh, by the way, that reminds me--i'd almost forgotten! it is true! i declared it myself back the very day willie nelson was writing his song, "whatever happened to peace on earth?" he was writing it while i was welcoming the peaceship aquarius to the planet from waterloo, iowa, the home of the greatest military tragedy in modern history, the deaths of the five sullivan brothers. where better to declare peace? i thought of that song, "let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with me..." that would be me, i figure, so i didn't wait for the other guy to do it, i just did it, and sent it out in emails all day long on that christmas day, while willie was agonizing over the deaths in iraq...let me see if i can copy the peace tree from that...bear with me if it doesn't copy right... well, i couldn't find it, but i did find this: p
e
ac
e
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
PEACE
o PEACE
o o PEACE
o o PEACE
o o PEACE
o PEACE
ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
and when we all will keep lit just our one little candle
what a bright world this will be!
raine nah, it didn't copy even onto this worth a hoot. maybe you can get the gist of it...it is a candle, but the 'o's that i had lined up so tediously got all misaligned in the "translation"...read them as one of those old candle holders with a "finger hole" and the words around it were o's and then they mellowed out into 'm's...om wish it had copied, darn...anyway, you'd have loved my peace tree. do you have an email that i could send it to? that would preserve its original design, without which it doesn't mean much, like the candle... peace--how beautiful it would be. we shall just have to seek it within our own hearts--the kingdom of heaven is WITHIN YOU after all IP: Logged |
talaith
Knowflake Posts: 120
From:
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted April 14, 2004 12:27 AM
raine ~so making that movie must have just been a farce to him. or maybe he focused on playing his character as just as nutty as possible. i did see your image as a candle. nice! my email is talaith@mail.com if you'd like to send the original. thanks! IP: Logged |
ozonefiller
Knowflake Posts: 705
From: Scranton PA US
Registered: May 2003
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posted April 14, 2004 01:17 AM
OK,I remembered this post,but I really don't think that Mel Gibson was trying to exploit the movie like people want to think,but the fact is that I think is that, their was a time that the Romans were very brutal to their captions and it wasn't only with Jesus that they did this to. You also got to remember Rome at that time was being ruled by Tiberius Julius Augustus Ceasar,which not only happened to be a madman(that locked himself away on the isle of Capri),but also the fact that he never believe in any God what so ever,not even any to his own supposible Pagan beliefs and Poncius Pilate didn't want Tiberius to know that he sentenced a man to death,just because he claimed(to Pilate's knowledge)to be GOD!IP: Logged |
raine6
Knowflake Posts: 64
From: Waterloo, IA United States trailingclouds@yahoo.com
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted April 14, 2004 01:35 AM
ozonefiller, thank you for your response. it is quite wonderful to see you calmed down ;o) i actually perceive a very beautiful human being underneath the anger and frustration. we each see our own perspectives in things, which is why i love the fable of the blind men and the "republican" elephant so. some of us feel the underbelly and others feel the legs, etc. and when we can't get others to see what we see, it IS frustrating. who is to say who is "right" and who is "wrong"
and given the impermanence of things anyway, there really is no right or wrong, but thinking makes it so. i do not mean to 'bash christians' as it may seem, but frankly, they have been driving me crazy with their lust for blood lately. what DO they see? that is why i genuinely wanted you to help me understand what your perspective is--after all, it is a view from a place which i cannot see, and i must rely on others to form a better "whole"we all tend to get "caught up in" our emotions...in fact, i have used that example for--oh oh--talk about controversy! well, here goes...people have gotten turned off when i told them that we should pray for saddam. hey, it wasn't my idea, i think you know whose idea it was. i think, as we reflect upon our pasts, we have all gotten "caught up in" a sort of group energy that has left us regretful about it. well, we are also told not to judge, and i think the reason is that we ourselves do not think we would ever 'get caught up' anything like that. well, i have heard that quite a lot from people about various things, but the truth is, they do not know HOW they would react if given the same circumstances. we would all like to think we would behave nobly, but remember those stones jesus said not to cast indiscriminately and how they are not to be cast at those who live in glass houses...we would be wise to heed his wisdom so how is saddam to learn peace and love if we brutalize him now? it seems that reduces the odds considerably. on the off chance that he might "repent" and even become a "christian" would it not be better to cast one's lot in with the lovers of the world and not the fighters? there is always justification for war, and maybe it all has to do with what mars is up to, but if we don't try to shed some light around the world, it will remain in darkness. i might have but a little wee candle, but i intend to commit it to the purpose of world peace.
there is enough violent thought and action in the world--let us not fight each other, too IP: Logged |
ozonefiller
Knowflake Posts: 705
From: Scranton PA US
Registered: May 2003
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posted April 14, 2004 12:17 PM
I feel your pain Raine6,but I think that we (as Christains or anybody else in a matter of fact),should try to understand the words that Jesus was using within his teachings. For one thing,any Christain that is bloodthrusty for War,Violence or Death,is NOT a real Christain,in fact according to Jesus,he is concidered a FALSE PROPHET,that is really an agent for Satan and HIS Angels and is using(as Jesus would claim)his Fathers name,to justify the un-holy,self-rightous,act of purposes to hold to this evil feeling,Jesus called it "Murder of the Heart" and whoever shall be bloodthrusty,shall also be concidered(in the Kingdom of Heaven)already a Murderer,in his Father's eyes! The only chance that a person can ever get from this evil feeling is to repent to God,but if anybody shall fall into the same feelings again(as such),then repent again and again and again,for God is NOT only almighty,he is also All-forgiving and our Father does understand what it is to be HUMAN!Jesus told us to "love thy enemy",and I think even if it means of you to war with such,a good warrior doesn't hate they're opposition,he/she repects and even has compassion for the one that they wage in battle with. The enemy holds to his/her beliefs(on what is right and wrong),just as much as WE would and do. A good Detective(in the police force)doesn't find ill towards the one that he is investagating,in fact(9 times out of 10),he is actually putting himself in the criminal's place(of mind,body and soul),in order to KNOW who or what he is looking for,do you understand? To not have compassion for you enemy,is to die in battle,or bare defeat! IP: Logged |
raine6
Knowflake Posts: 64
From: Waterloo, IA United States trailingclouds@yahoo.com
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted April 15, 2004 11:54 AM
ozonefiller, i like the way you express yourself...and yes, 70 times 7 is an awful lot. 490 to be exact [at one time i did wonder what would happen the 491st time--are we free to let 'em have it? ;o)] i guess that would bring it all down upon us then, too, eh? but in war, are the soldiers not taught to dehumanize the enemy, calling them names to create the illusion that they are not human beings, in order to be able to kill them more easily? please know that my heart is full of compassion for veterans, and their struggle to readjust after such indoctrination. and i hope the ranks of those you described will grow to epidemic proportions, and maybe this whole war thing will go the way of the horse and buggy i cannot say that i know what you are going through, because i do not. but common sense, and the 'nam movies i have seen, are enough to tell me you do not have an easy row to hoe. please accept that i do care about all of the above, and veterans are in my thoughts and prayers--the old ones who are just fading away as well as those in harm's way today. i have always felt a close identification with their suffering, for some reason, and that would include YOU. i am supposed to have been some type of warrior in a past life, so it probably stems from that, i don't know...but war IS hell i often think of thomas hardy's poem wherein the young man looks into the eye of his enemy, knowing that one of them is destined to die. chance claims the other guy, and he reflects upon it all. he thinks how his traps had not going well that winter, and he needed the money, and probably the other guy did too, and how under other circumstances, they would have had a beer together such is the nature of war, it would seem. it is the poor and needy who respond to the dangled carrots--you'll notice bush's own are not in any way involved, nor are most of the families of our leaders then, they withdraw those carrots, and they are hooked. is anyone on this site aware of what veterans are going through? how DAV reps are prevented from seeing the incoming wounded--the ones the warmongers among you are so eager to send over there--supposedly in order to protect their privacy. hm... it would seem they ought to get to decide just how they want their privacy rights played out...check out veterans for peace and you will find out. they have been there, done that, and feel there must be a better way i would have hoped that on a site like this, there would be only people of peace, who recognize the futility of war. i mean, can anyone think of any good thing that came out of vietnam--the cause that was touted as so urgent and "patriotic"--in its heyday, how we must stay the course? i s'pose one could cite many good stories that came out of people's suffering, but do we need to induce more suffering in order to carry on the tradition? this is probably a digression here from the movie--maybe it belongs under bush's speech.
but it does seem to reflect the violence in our consciousness, captured by that movie, when i see normally warm and loving people turn into rapid iraqi haters, with war fever, that even extends to their babies and children. {they only get what they deserve--after all, they WERE right there in the line of fire...) it is a struggle to incorporate that into my meditation practice...it is somewhat of a deterrent to see those haunting baby bodies maybe war people are also appalled, but just choose to deny it rather than accept that little babies are being killed by us in "the cause" as bush says. "We serve the cause of liberty, and that is always and everywhere a cause worth serving." i supposed you could say that all of these little ones have been liberated from a neanderthal world of sorrow and woe that still thinks war can accomplish anything... IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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