posted April 10, 2006 10:21 AM         

I have no doubt that you are the kind of person who won't let this experience make you a bitter person. Even more so do I believe that because of what you said in this post about all you have overcome. It does take a very strong person to overcome the things you mentioned. Beyond that, it served to make you a more loving and compassionate woman.

I too was abused ( sexually molested by the babysitter's husband at the age of 4 ) so I know well the feelings of guilt that children have, as if it was something we have done that caused it. I also have been betrayed by a friend that I cared about very much and trusted so I know how much that hurts. It does take time to work through the pain of that and it takes some of us longer than others depending on the kind of person we are. I think that people like you and I who had to overcome hurts from childhood would normally take longer to overcome hurts than someone who hasn't had that experience. I think it depends on how sensitive a person is too.

13anshee, I think you are very right in that any relationships we have with others is a gamble. We are always vulnerable to hurt when we choose to open ourselves up to others. At best relationships are a risk. We may be rewarded greatly or we may be hurt badly. At any rate, sharing yourself with others, giving love and trust to others, is worth the gamble. Even if we are hurt at least we have loved and cared for others and in doing that have made the world a little less cold.

No, I do not share the cavalier attitude you mentioned about love. Love is the most deep feeling or emotion we have. Cavalier means disdainful and haughty. I could never look at love as that.

Sue as to your last post, But your friend is right about being misunderstood. The thing is that it does not apply to just you. It applies to everyone who posts on these threads. If it is as you say, something that happens to you often, you might consider it isn't the fault of everyone else but the way that you express yourself. But it is doubtful that it has anything at all to do with your being on a "love-based evolutionary path."
Just something to think about. Don't want to be accused of being "wise" here.

I have the flu with fever and body aches you would not believe so hope this makes sense.

posted April 10, 2006 10:45 AM         

Pompous......very

And no, age doesnt give one the go ahed to be outspoken and rude....

You may wish to remember this in the future......

I dont wish to converse with you and be misunderstood, so as much as I enjoy LL, I am stepping back......

I had the humility to say sorry and yet you still persist in attacking me...picking my comments to pieces....

Am sensing some form of frustration in you Mirandee, which YOU may wish to address.....

Because if we choose to preach to others, then we must be prepared to listen back. and I dont feel you do......

Hope you learn something yourself from all of this.....

Slane

posted April 10, 2006 11:32 AM         

Mirandee you are wise.
I saw no rudeness or pompous behavior on your part. All you did was call spade a spade...when the spade wanted to believe it were something else.
Your openness and honesty and outspokenness are to be admired,
Not spat upon.
You know the value of
"experience being the best teacher"...and honesty the best policy". Even when you get lambasted for your views, I see you as a person of clariety who knows where she stands and is yet still compassionate.
I salute you!

silverstone
Thank you!
But I have found that one must not deny the pain. One must look at it intensely and feel it through completely. One must be honest with oneself too...and while noting others errors, try to put themselves in that person(s) shoes and try to understand why that person(s) acted thusly. It does not remove the pain of being mistreated but it does bring an understanding of the whyfores of it all. And often one will find that they assumed too much of the other, and assumed that the other person(s) were truly asking for honesty when they said to one, "I value complete honesty, even if it hurts"., only to discover too late, that it was ONLY if the person agreed with said honest remarks or observations. Not realizing until too late that the other only wanted validation of self, and someone to enable them, or agree with them all they way. Some folks love the noble concept of someone being honest and open with them, but when push came/comes to shove, that type of person has perhaps never before encountered a brutally honest person yet, and was not expecting that kind of complete honesty, but were instead expecting the type with which they were familiar, the kind that believes in a warped sense of being kind/tactful, and if they cannot say nice tings, then say nothing, type attitude, and then proceeds to only tell them the honest bits they wanted to hear,(thinking they are being kind and at least as honest as possible, and thereby validating their reasons for the silent ommissions of what they REALLY WANTED TO SAY...but were being "polite") but would not tell that person the honest bits that might hurt the other person's feelings or make that person think, Oh My God, I feel so naked and vulnerable and exposed now, I am so embarrassed...OMG! This(horrible scary "mean") person is telling me SECRET things about myself that I do not want others to know! Things I do not even want to look at myself! That poor unhappy soul can only turn to anger or vengence to cover their embarrassment then, and to quickly reject the one who spoke freer to them than they had anticipated, or really desired, so they must bite, slap, reject and run as fast as possible, before they hear more of the things they do not want to hear and face.
So...part of surviving and being strong is coming to understand why another mistreated one. It does not mean one should let themselves be mistreated again, but it does mean we can step in their shoes for a moment
and say..."Hey! (often after the fact)Now I see! "That" is why they are upset!
I guess another thing too is...
When someone tells one...they want the brutal truth and honesty...perhaps the definition of that as it applies to each person's views, should be discussed to make sure they both look at honesty and the desire for it, in "Exactly the same way"...."or not."
If they are not of the same mind/emotional set on what constitututes honesty and openness....well, someone or both will be hurt sooner or later.

posted April 10, 2006 11:39 AM         

Well, I am often bitter and hurt at first, especially if it came at me totally unexpected. Like I felt I was talking to gentle wise intelligent Dr. Jekyl when suddenly Mr.Hyde appears! YIKES!
But once my hurt and yes, even anger at the other person(s), and my embarrassement at being a trusting fool...once this all subsides or at least is calmed to a dull roar. I can pull back and think, and put myself in their shoes and see what went wrong. More often than not it was a miscommunication as to what I and the other person(s) construed as to being a friend, or honestly, or expected or wanted from it all.
But from that point can come understanding and compassion for the other who hurt us.
For example, I do not like or love my mother.
But...
I know for certain why she is such a terrible acting person. She is a victim of herself and her past bad experiences. I know what led to her being the way she is. She cannot help it now that she is insane. Or that she was abusive before the insanity and Alziemers kicked in.
I can see what messed her up. It would mess anyone up. And no one was there to help her get past it all...so it grew to be a dark and terrible part fused within her soul. But I do not need to let her hurt me either....to be able to understand, and pity her.
You know that old saying?
"There, But For The Grace Of God, Go I"
That brings a sense of peace to me to help me try to see that no unkind person is born that way, things happen to make them the kind of person they become.
LIfe is not easy. It is very muchly often a constant balancing act.

Thank you too for understanding child molestation and rape. I am saddened to hear this happened to you too. But even those experience help us understand others. The rape came at 9, and many molestations as far back as I can remember.
I can look at all that now, and understand why they did this to me. It was not my fault, and while it was their fault...I now understand the warped psyches that motivated them to commit these terrible acts upon my young person.
I have forgiven them.
Not because they were right, because what they did was very very wrong, but because they, on certain levels of their disturbed psyches...could not stop themselves, and in some ways "knew not what/"why" they were doing".
Products of their own childhood trauma that were never resolved, faced with and worked through.
Ok..rant over.
Yeah..I have a wee bit of a flubug too. Thought it was menopausal things sneaking up on me, but then my husband got sick too...so it must be a bug again.
Been hitting the garlic/hot pepper and ginger
in hot clear broth all morning.

posted April 10, 2006 12:15 PM         

<<Dont get this.....but realise that there is no point in me anymore trying to put across my opinion as it gets picked to pieces by some others>>

Words spoken from the heart are bound by the essence of "love intention". No amount of critical analysis can diminish this essence. The essence has a life and it clings to those short on love, slowly attracting experiences that highlight the value of love into their life till at some stage in life, as per the correct astrological placements it gives them the healing they need by opening them up to love.

Therefore, when you feel like posting, you must post whether other members like it or dislike it or dissect it or appreciate it.

The feeling in your heart when you post can heal more than you can imagine.

Let me tell you a traditional story. A man who follows the path of knowledge travels with one who is on the path of Love, proving
to him again and again that knowledge is superior.

They meet a man who says he is thirsty, but they dont have water. The man of knowledge utters magickal verses to create a glass of water. The thirsting man drinks it, thanks him and then disappears. The man of knowledge continues proving the logic of using analysis, theoretical studies of magic and so on.

After some more time, they come to a small village where everyone is almost dying from thirst. The man on the path of love, overcome with emotion at the suffering, bursts into a song of compassion beseeching God to send water. He sings with such energy and devotion that it starts raining and fills all the empty wells!

posted April 10, 2006 01:36 PM         

Beautiful and positive words to read......and a very positive note to finish on....true understanding and "feeling"......

It will be very interesting to see how many "get you" on this!!

Love and blessings...

Sue xxx

posted April 10, 2006 02:16 PM         

quote: "So I will resist the urge to be heard and say to all who have been upset, scared or threatened by me in the past or present.....

SORRY.....SORRY.......SORRY........"

Oh, that was truly intended to be an apology? Sorry I must not have recognized it as such.

It astounds me that after phrasing your "apology" as you did - " and say to all who have been upset, scared or threatened by me in the past or present....." - you could come back and call me "pompous." However if that is your opinion of me, Sue, then you are certainly entitled to have that opinion.

Frankly I don't know you, Sue so nothing that I said in my post was an intention to "pick apart" what you said. I simply disagreed with you and gave my opinion of that saying you posted. I also said it "seemed" kind of insensitive to me that you would post that saying right after Fayte's heartfelt post as if to imply it was her fault her friends betrayed her love and trust. The operative word in my sentence was the word "seemed" which implies it was just my perception. You may not have intended it that way. I can't pretend to know your motives or intentions. If that offended you or hurt your feelings then I sincerely apolize for that. It was not my intention to offend or hurt you.

As for my being outspoken... It has nothing to do with my age. It is the way I am. The way I always was and the way I will always be. I live in the U.S. where we have a constitution that says we have the right to speak our minds and give a differing opinion. Everyone but the Bush administration and his followers hold that to be true. You may perceive it to be "rude" for me to tell you that you might consider phrasing yourself better ( see above apology as an example) if it is true as you say that people are always misunderstanding you but I don't see it as anything more than just a suggestion which you can take or dismiss.

I have been misunderstood many times too. It happens to everyone. Noreenz is right, there is no need for you to stop speaking your mind just because others misunderstand you. It is your right to do so just as it is everyone else's right.

posted April 10, 2006 02:27 PM         

By the way...I am a Scorpio! And I think your are A-OK in my book!

Iqhunk
Yes your words are true "in and of themselves alone":
quote:
Words spoken from the heart are bound by the essence of "love intention". No amount of critical analysis can diminish this essence.

And yes the feeling in one's heart can indeed heal.

But only if the words are truly meant and felt.
And freely given from the heart.
If the words are truly from the heart, and freely given to others, MANY WILL feel the love behind the words.
But if they are selfserving words, others will sense this and reject the loving empty words.

posted April 10, 2006 03:49 PM         

I do hold honesty very high. It's very important to me that regardless of how it is met that I be honest and true to myself and others. I expect them to be honest with me in return. I don't mind at all Sue chastising me and I will give her critique a lot of thought. I believe as you do, Fayte, that even though criticism is hard for the ego to take for all of us, it should be considered a favor to us as it helps us grow to become better people. I also believe as you do that a true friend is one who does not tell us what we want to hear, but sometimes has to tell us the hard truth.

I am happy to see that you have a found a true friend in Lialei who allows you to sometimes speak the hard truth to her and who returns the favor to you.

The thing about being wise, I thank you and I'm happy that you feel that way about me but I don't see myself as wise at all. The way I see it and always have is that if I ever think I know anything once and for all I would be doomed to the fate of ceasing to learn. I am always questioning my opinions and what I think I know. That is why I like your signature so much. I think it was St. Paul who said, " Once I think I know anything, it is then that I become a fool." So very true!

posted April 10, 2006 05:06 PM         

Yes! I am that way too! But that expectation of mutual honesty has worked with very few.
It cannot work unless BOTH are honest with themselves also. And both willing to grow. Yet accept differences. We are not clones.
And:
quote:
"I believe as you do, Fayte, that even though criticism is hard for the ego to take for all of us, it should be considered a favor to us as it helps us grow to become better people. I also believe as you do that a true friend is one who does not tell us what we want to hear, but sometimes has to tell us the hard truth."

Yes! I agree!
But there is a big difference between constructive crticism and dirty insults based on assunptions or jealousy or self righteous indignation! That is the difference in part between true friends, and onesided friendships. True friends know their own self(or are honestly trying to know themselves), then share it with another true friend, who feels the same, in a mutual exchange. There is no exchange of anger or hate when both are being honest and no one too proud and stuck in their own ego trip and denial mechanisms.
Funny thing...well actually rather sad and very frustrating to one who tries to insult a person who does know themselves. I have had this happen before from folks who cannot take what they dish out. I get told..a grocery list of my current faults. And invariably, I will usually agree 100%, yeah I do that, yeah that too, yeah I need to look at that...etcetera. But with some, they will go bonkers if you give them their list back. That is not a mutual friendship.
Now what is not honest crticism is when someone strikes a low blow, in a futile effort to rationalize that something they are doing foolish or stupid is A-Ok! By then getting angry and throwing into ones face a past indicretion of youth, even one of many decades ago, that one already paid for, and long ago recognized as stupid behavior. But the angry person who is called on the rug for doing something stupid in a similar vein "NOW", takes it as a personal insult rather than advice from another who knew damn well that the things they themselves did in the past were wrong or stupid, or for the wrong reasons. But the angry person, instead of listening to the hard bought wisdom of a person who "had been there done that and will NEVER do it or that again"...they instead rub it in that persons face and walk off in an insulted huff never acknowledging that they are doing or about to do a stupid thing, and continuing in their indignation at throwing back a low blow.."well you did a stupeder thing or worse thing then me so you have no right to judge me!" Yet it was NOT a judgement, it was a "been there done that" person, trying to prevent another person from doing something stupid also. When I use my past errors and indiscretions to try and help someone by example when I see them going down a similar road or one I can relate to even if not entirely the same, a road that is not a good road to take, Well...I feel I should speak up. But many folks think they are being judged, when that is/was not it at all.
I have been through much not of my doing and not my fault. But I have also done alot of stupid things. What is so wrong with trying to use my experience to help others not get into the messes I did or be able to understand them because I have walked in similar shoes?

Well...Honesty is still the best policy...and I want to know if I have egg on my face!

Rant over. A little tired. Hope I made sense.

posted April 11, 2006 12:17 PM         

What you said about some people is a sad thing but very true. I say sad because a person who wishes only to see and paint themselves in the best light, who only see the faults in others but refuse to look inward and examine their own faults, is doomed to remain the same throughout their lives. Because one cannot possibly grow to become a better human being if they cannot see and admit to their own faults. I see that as a sad state of existance. Yet I know there are many like that. It is, I think, one of the main reasons our world is such a mess and lacks love and compassion. It's all ego based because our egos do not like to hear the truth. The human ego will defend itself. The ego will protect itself. Usually by lashing out.

I think that people who only want to hear what they want to hear about themselves lack self-confidence and self-love. And you know that you cannot possibly truly love others if don't love yourself first. I mean love yourself with a healthy ego that can see both the good and bad things about yourself and still accept yourself for who and what you are...still approve of yourself. The bad things or faults are to be worked on. We all have them. We can't possibly work on changing our faults if we refuse to acknowledge them though.

Inwardly I think these people pump themselves up to believe only the best of themselves and any suggestion that it may not be true is a threat to their ego or I should say, their unhealthy ego. Since truly honest friends will tell the truth if it means preventing a friend from making a fool of theirself or getting hurt as you said in your post, the best intentions usually backfire because these people can only feel safe and secure in the presence of dishonest friends who tell them what they want to hear. The type of friend who only agrees and tells us the best about ourself or what they think we want to hear usually have ulterior motives. There is something they are hoping to get out of it for themselves. People who cannot truly look inwardly and see their own faults or who have an unhealthy ego are usually easily fooled by the false flattery of those with ulterior motives. Compassion is what I feel for those people because it is a sad state to be in but I have to admit they can truly grate on your nerves. They can't help it, but they do get on your nerves if you are an honest person.

posted April 11, 2006 05:31 PM         

DO NOT ASK ME FOR MY HONEST OPINION OR ADVICE IF YOU REALLY DO NOT WANT IT!
DO NOT TELL ME YOU LOVE TOTAL HONESTY, EVEN IF IT HURTS!
BECAUSE MY WORDS MAY HURT IF YOU EXPECT AS A FRIEND I WILL TREAT YOU WITH NO RESPECT AND BLOW SUNSHINE UP YOUR ASS!
I WILL NOT STAND BY AND WATCH YOU PLAY IN THE TRAFFIC OR DO SOMETHING STUPID OR DANGEROUS...UNTIL I HAVE AT LEAST TRIED TO SAVE YOU, AND HAVE SPOKEN UP BECAUSE I DO CARE!
OK...
Rant over!
One more point...
If a friend goes ahead and does the foolish thing anyhow....And Gets Hurt because of it....I will Not reject them, or judge them.
I would comfort them and say....
Experience is a Harsh Teacher.
What have you learned my friend?:

posted April 12, 2006 09:29 AM         

I guess what we are talking about is called "Tough Love," Fayte. Sometimes you have to be a bit tough on your kid or a friend in order to be kind. I think it was HSC on this thread that said, " Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind." True, mainly because there are so many people living in denial.

It's difficult at times because we are always dealing with the human ego. It was Jesus who told us we have to "die to ourselves" if we choose to follow him. By that he meant we have to die to our egos. Even when Jesus said that I think he knew that roughly 99% of the world population would not be able to master that in a lifetime. Same as when he said " Love your enemies." lol Since we need our healthy egos to survive I am certain that it was just the unhealthy ego he was referring to. The ego doesn't die easily and certainly not without putting up a fight. I wish I could say I had died to mine but I know I haven't. If I get offended by something someone says to me or does to me I know it is the ego at work because there is nothing that anyone could say or do that would offend me if I had died to my unhealthy ego. The ego is easily offended and some people go to great lengths to defend the ego.

posted April 12, 2006 09:40 AM         

I guess the answer to your question of why people ask someone they know to be honest for their opinion or advice then get mad when we give it might be that they can't really handle the honest truth. Maybe they don't even realize that on a conscious level.

There are many people who simply never learn a thing from the mistakes they make. They don't learn because they don't take the time to think about it...think what they did that might have caused it to happen and do some serious introspection and maybe discover within themselves that there may be a pattern here that they keep repeating and even the reason for that pattern. My sister has been married twice. After her second marriage ended she asked me why she couldn't hold onto a marriage as I could. I asked her if it ever occured to her that there is a pattern there. Though they were different men she actually married the same guy twice. She gave it a lot of thought and realized they were alike and that the guy she was dating at that time was like the other two. lol Many people live in denial. They just blame it all on someone or something else other than themselves because it's easier than looking inward at themselves. In other words, they don't take responsibility for their actions. It's easier to blame others. It takes too much work to look into themselves. We see waaaaay too much of that these days. It seems that kids are not being taught by their parents to take responsibility for their actions. We have a whole government right now that isn't the best role model for kids in that respect either. There was an article in the paper here today that said the country is becoming more dishonest. Gee, I wonder why when we consider the precedent the Bush administration is setting. Not the best role models for our kids and grandkids. We may have to tell our kids to stop acting like the president.

All we can really do when we give a friend our advice and it is met with hostility is tell ourselves that we tried. We can be happy that we cared enough to try and that we were true to ourselves by being honest. Then resist the urge to say I told you so when they discover for themselves. Just joking on that last part.

I think my kids have been my best teacher about all of this. There were times I could do little except let them learn for themselves even though it pained me knowing they would be emotionally hurt. All parents want to protect their kids from any kind of pain we endured. But the truth is that experience was the way we learned the hard lessons of life and it is the way our kids have to learn too. When to back off and when to be more insistent depends on what the kid or friend seems to be determined to do. It's those times that we have to apply tough love even if it hurts us to do that. It's a loving, compassionate thing to do to attempt to keep a friend from being hurt by reckless action that we know full well is going to cause them a lot of pain and lot of regret.

posted April 12, 2006 10:13 AM         

You are only the second person I have encountered in my life thus far that had so much to overcome from childhood and actully did overcome it to become the truly remarkable, loving and compassionate person that you are today.

That is a rare thing. On the most part it has been my experience that people rarely change at all. It takes a lot of strength and courage to change your life. I think that is why so many people just keep on as they are even though their life is a mess and they are miserable. You know what I mean? Many, if not most people, would rather just go on as they are because it is familiar to them. Fear of change can be an awesome deterrant. I think Pink Floyd expressed that well in their song, "Wish You Were Here."

"We're just two lost souls swimming 'round a fishbowl year after year. Running around the same old ground, what have we found? The same old fears."

I had a dear male friend who came from an abusive background. His dad was an alcoholic who beat him, his brothers and his mom all the time. By the age of 14 he was sent to a boys detention center due to all the trouble he got into. He ran away from there and was on his own from a young age. He dealt drugs on the streets of Chicago and was even shot once. He traveled around the country and ended up in a hippie commune in New Mexico. One night some town folks came through the hippie commune shooting the place up. He said it just occured to him one day after that if he did not change his life he was not going to live much longer. Now rarely does that thought even cross the minds of most people but even if it does they still can't muster up the strength and courage to change. He did though. He completely changed and became the compassionate, loving man he is today.

It takes not only an awful lot of courage and strength, but a lot of introspection and the belief in a better way to do that.

I admire you and my friend greatly for having overcome the odds against you from childhood. Few people can do that. They are held too fast by the fear of change.

posted April 12, 2006 12:07 PM         

And...
I ASSURE YOU>>>I speak not by way of idle flattery , but in truth of my feelings!
Thank You Mirandee!

At the moment you have said it all so well, I cannot add much more to it all that would enhance anything substantially.

So...
Just a couple little things...
CHANGE!
Yes! Most folks are afraid of change. Sometimes one has to hit the bottom of the deepest abyss of the soul before they can see that the only way from where they are at, is up.
Some folks are so caught in the familiar and complacency, apathy even. That when forced unexpected events occur, they often totally freak out and can even make things worse or self destruct.
But the hardest change for most is not the outside things that affect their lives, but the way they are inside.
And a little bit of what may seem to be ego, and indeed may well be so, is needed. It is part of our self identity that gives us our sense of self respect. Keeps us from being doormats or martyrs. Keeps us knowing that when we are treated unfairly that we did not deserve such treatment, nor need to keep taking it.
"Turning the Other Cheek" does not mean to stand here and keep taking it until one is on the ground having the life kicked out of them!
It means having enough sense of self worth and respect, to know when it is time too walk away. To realize that it is a no win situation, and know that there is no shame in letting the other have the last word.
As long as it is the last word.

Looking at our own personal faults and mistakes is indeed embarrassing. But then that turns to understanding, and then to self forgiveness. And then to understanding of an compassion for others.
Again..."There But For The Grace Of God Go I"....Or Been there, done that, learned my lesson".
Or as I said above;
I Will not reject a friend who has made a grievous or foolish error.
Even if I warned or advised them, and they did what they wanted to anyhow.
I would(and have) said:
Experience is a harsh teacher.
What have you learned from this my friend?
And then take it from there.
No "I told you so". They are embarrassed and humbled enough without my rubbing it in.
Understanding and moving beyond it is what is needed then..not an immature ego pumped victory dance of nyah nyah I was right ha ha you screwed up! Told You Nyah Nyah! Shoulda listened to ME! That is not caring or loving or supportive or uplifting...but many folks do just that or a snide variation thereof. Bleecchhh!

Ok...rant over again

BTW....My husband is a Cancerian. Another brutally beautifully wonderfully honest person!

posted April 12, 2006 01:52 PM         

I totally agree with what you said. Change begins inside and once we even begin to work on the inner self things just automatically start changing in our lives. I think maybe that is due to the positive energy we put out when we are working on the inner that automatically attracts positive things in our environment. I know that has happened in my life and that is the only way I can explain it outside of "With God all things work for the good."

And you can "rant" anytime you want to me. There is a whole lot of wisdom in what you call your rants.

posted April 12, 2006 04:46 PM         

Ahhhh.....Sad about your dear Cancerian friend. Some Scorpios can be deathly jealous. Grey Lizards, Scorpions,Eagles, or Phoenix, I suppose it is where they are in their soul evolution.
But still it is so sad to not have your friend's companionship.
I am an odd duck I suppose.(something to do with my astrological placements perhaps in part?) The other day someone asked me what do I do when I get jealous. I said I do not get jealous.
Jealousy is illogical. I also will not stay with a person of that mindset, nor put up with it. My husband is not jealous either. When there is no cage and all know they are free to come and go and be their true selves....the urge to roam or fly is negated. And so jealousy becomes a non issue.
Why on earth would anyone want a person to be jealous? Some warped validation of their own selfworth and desirabilty? Some folks think that is sign of love. For me that is tantamount to saying, "I do not trust you and I want to control and possess you." Bleeecchhh!
That saying.."If you love someone, set them free, if it is meant to be, they will fly back to you".
Well my attitude is, never cage them in the first place! I want folks in my life by choice not coercion or obligation. I want them to be themselves. And to let me be myself. To all live our lives to the fullest. It is not about owning another, that goes for friends too.
My husband has women friends. I am very comfotable with that. I have men friends. He is comfortable about that. And of course we both have same sex friends and all our friends are to some degree more or less, mutual friends.

"With God all things work for the good."
So very very true!

I am so overjoyed to have met you!

Perhaps if you have time and are interested we could e-mail.
But if that is not your cup of tea,
I am still thrilled to be able to discuss and share with you here!

posted April 12, 2006 09:34 PM         

I hope I was not being intrusive; I know that I do not know you, but from reading your posts I can see that you are a very strong woman with a lot of clarity who has overcome many obstacles in search for truth! I wish you the best!

Cheers,

posted April 13, 2006 03:53 AM         

hmmmmmmmmmm that sounds like a true Scorpio to me, yeah, I like you... and don't even know you... I love survivors...

Cheers,