posted April 20, 2006 11:53 AM              

Interesting stuff on Radical Honesty, Mirandee.
I like the choice of the word "noticers".
Being receptive to true honesty, I believe is as equally significant as giving it to others.
Recognizing it, so it can rightfully valued for its rarity. Exalted for its place in an often shallow world.

There is futility in taking words 'face-value', without keener intuition into potential manipulation or influence that might be be motivating them.

Say someone says they are this or that.
And beyond that exerts great time and energy into promoting this image.
I'm going to immediately be suspicious of motive. For why are they doing this? Throughout time, I'll sit back and begin to notice patterns of it. Some kind of insistance from it. This only triggers my awareness (noticing) and skeptisism. For Truth simply is, and doesn't need pronounce itself, or insist on its existance.

I always remain mindful of this quote:

You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.
~James D. Miles

That is awareness and reception of honesty, isn't it?

Does the person only treat well people they want to influence? Or is it a more impersonal reaching? Is there potential gain from their giving or is it truly from innocent compassion for another?

We live in a distracting world. So much noise and forceful opinion all around us.
It can be confusing at times, and especially because we only hope for the best from others and want to believe in their sincerity.

Harsh experiences can also lead us to be suspicious of motive. Paranoia isn't helpful either. But in between blind faith and fearful skeptisism is a balanced silence that simply KNOWS, if only we purely listen.

Signals, energies...they are there for us all the time, if only we remain aware.
Still within ourselves, from our own Truth reaching out in from equal innocence and wisdom for the Truth beyond us.

posted April 20, 2006 12:12 PM            

Reminded me of apprentice show I was watching last nite. Some one sells pizza saying if you buy pizzas we will give you free hat. If it was me, I would just walk away.

posted April 20, 2006 12:17 PM            

Fayte,

I hope you didn't take that baby sitting word to your heart. Words always lacks what someone is trying to say. What I was aiming was if you were 21 I would have been 3. Hence the correlation. I am not being negative here honest. I was just trying to gauge an understanding. My venus position makes me attracted to matured/older partners. Makes sense?

Wow Carl Sagan is a scorpio. Cool. That explains a lot of their access to hidden mysteries. Cool.

Leo is the king of the material world and scorpio the queen of the ___(fill in please. Edited later) world

What ever it meant.

Will be back soon. I have to go back to work. Heh Silverstone..no time to proof read .....i'm really busy...so excuse me.

posted April 20, 2006 02:09 PM              

MANNU!
As a matter of fact my husband of now, was 1 year old when I got engaged to my first ex.
He was 3 years old when I married my first ex.
Husband number two was even a bit younger!

But it is funny...no one makes cracks about guys...
Like my brothers ...married to women 20 or more years younger! But I am the freak in their double standards minds! They are stud muffins they think! Ha! Too damn funny!

Now my current father in law and I are cool with it all! He thinks it is cool that he "and" his son, my husband, are both married to women about the same age!!!!

posted April 20, 2006 03:05 PM              

I know you don't mean it that way! They come out that way... okay... your still cool! Is that what you want to hear! Sorry for being too anylitical... I have a Virgo all over my chart!

Cheers Mannu...

posted April 20, 2006 05:18 PM              

I haven't the time right now but intend to come back and read all of your posts concerning Jesus later. I did skim through some of it though. In the context of honesty, if I may make just a suggestion here. When you present your particular beliefs on Jesus or anything else regarding religion please present them as just that, your beliefs. You can do that by beginning with " It's my opinion," or " I think" or "It is my belief" but please do not present them as if they were true facts by stating them in a matter of fact manner. That can be both misleading to some who are searching and offensive to others who hold a differing belief system.

You see, that Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead is the central belief of all Christianity. So please be sensitive to that fact and present what you say as your personal belief, not as fact.

posted April 20, 2006 08:03 PM            

Come on she made it clear that what is true should not be broadcasted. Unless I read her/yours post in haste. Never mind I will re-read it.

Some quotes:

quote:

---

Its important that the game is played. Winning or loosing does not matter.

---

quote:

---

You miss all the shots you do not take.

---

Last but not least, comes from, I think, some wise person in LL

quote:

---

"Those who know do not tell
and those who tell do not know."

---

posted April 20, 2006 08:44 PM              

Oh, by the way, you got it right the second time, Mannu.

Good thing I saved this. Here is partI of post:

Mannu,

I was not offended by what you said. I knew what you meant. Since I married at the age of 19 and had my first son when I was 20,and all 3 of my kids are now adults in their 30's, you are indeed young enough to be my son. I have no problem with that except to say that the reason I have 3 kids is because I didn't want 4. With my 5 grand kids I have a lot more kids now than I can handle.

As for religion and Jesus I could go and on and tell you what I think, what I believe, what I hold to be true and what I do not hold to be true. I could tell you all that I learned through years of reading all the books and what I learned in 4 years of Theology. However, that is all acquired knowledge that has been used by as me as a sort of navigational map. It really amounts to what has been passed on by others. So it would be futile for me to do that. I would just be one other person passing on what I heard from others, who heard it from others or read it in books written by others. It is all hand-me-downs. I will spare you all of that.

All I truly know about God and Jesus is based more on my own experiences in my life and how they have revealed themselves to me through those experiences, my own personal spiritual journey and what is in my soul from a relationship that I have worked on developing with God than anything I ever read in books or anything that was told to me by someone else. Relating those to you would be futile too because those are my own personal experiences and would mean nothing to you guys. God deals with all of us on an individual basis. So my experiences, though treasured by me, mean nothing to anyone else. This is my road. No one else can travel it. You all have your own roads designed just for you.

posted April 20, 2006 08:48 PM              

God and Jesus are very simple. We humans ( especially the humans in organized religions ) like to complicate things because that makes us look smart and we like to look smart. I do too it is good for the ego

If you truly want to come to know Jesus, who he is and what he is, and come to know God, all you have to do is go to the source itself and ask them to reveal their being to you. Of course there is a hitch here. There always is. You have to ask with a sincere desire to know the truth and not out of morbid curiosity. Oops, sorry, two hitches actually, you also have to rid yourself of all preconceived notions, ideas, beliefs or images you may have of God and Jesus so as to give Jesus and/or God room to reveal their being. Sorry but it only works that way. Well, as for the second hitch even if you can't rid yourself of some things it's okay. But the sincerity of seeking the truth has to be there.

It's all pretty simple. Just go to the true source and ask then sit back in a quiet room and withdraw to your soul and you will be amazed at the results. Trust me on this one. It is really the only place you will come to truly know God or Jesus. From within.

Have any of you ever seen the portrait of Jesus standing at a door knocking? If so, did you notice that there is only one doorknob to open the door and that doorknob is on the opposite side where Jesus stands and knocks. So even the great mystics knew what it took me much longer to discover for myself. Jesus is always knocking on the door of our souls. But it is up to us to open the door from within and invite him in.

posted April 20, 2006 11:13 PM            

"Our Father has many mansions" says Jesus.
Theres plenty of room for everyone.

Mirandee, Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. When John Nash used to teach he used to ask the students to throw away the books and just listen to him. I believe he used to be connected to a different plane of existence. We humans tend to dismiss him as mad. If only we would be tolerant and really listen

====
For everyone.

Its easy to dismiss certain happenings as that of the mind. Have you guys witnessed demons fleeing in Jesus's name?:

I was just watching a TV program. Blew my mind away.

http://www.boblarson.org/HOTTOPICS/hottopics.html

posted April 20, 2006 11:37 PM            

Anthropologists/Historians are only now discovering what was said thousands of years ago.

Instance: Pontius Pilot has been proved to have existed.

They also found that one of the three wise men named "Gaspar" was an king from the east. They found coins in his name and also found his palace.

Some one also found the skeleton of a man crucified in exactly the same manner as was desribed in the bible. So crucifixion is not a myth. Its a brutal punishment given in those times by the Romans, with the aim of hurting people and making them suffer before their death.

Christianity paid a much heavy price than a lot of people imagine them to be. This was for four hundred years atleast. People (whole family sometimes) were thrown to the lions for refusing to bow to Pagan gods. I really salute these people.

And much much more evidences...I think we must leave the work to professionals than do arm chair reading and jump to conclusions too fast too soon.

posted April 21, 2006 02:44 AM              

"Some one also found the skeleton of a man crucified in exactly the same manner as was desribed in the bible. So crucifixion is not a myth. Its a brutal punishment given in those times by the Romans, with the aim of hurting people and making them suffer before their death."

Silverstone~

I agree crucifixion is not a myth... but Jesus was not crucified, someone else was... and yes, people were crucified in those times... What I meant by CRUCIFICTION was refered to Jesus... "A" massiah... Avatar...

cheers

posted April 21, 2006 02:45 AM              

very cool. thank you, mysterious LL Sage.

as for the second part, unless they're asked to tell. That's when hopefully honesty takes its introduction in caring stride.

thanks for that, Mannu

posted April 21, 2006 04:16 AM              

I agree Lialei... depending on its context... and whether they choose to... when the time is ready... and if one feels is right... and those who do not know or are still in search solicit input. Fom my point of view, even if one thinks he or she knows one should be open to suggestions otherwise, we close the window of opportunity

Great words...

Cheers,

posted April 21, 2006 03:50 PM              

Just wanted to post these lyrics of "Ripple" by the Grateful Dead, because they so express how I feel about it all and how it seems we all feel about each of us having our own path

If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine
And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung,
Would you hear my voice come thru the music,
Would you hold it near as it were your own?

It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken,
Perhaps they're better left unsung.
I don't know, don't really care
Let there be songs to fill the air.

Ripple in still water,
When there is no pebble tossed,
Nor wind to blow.

Reach out your hand if your cup be empty,
If your cup is full may it be again,
Let it be known there is a fountain,
That was not made by the hands of men.

There is a road, no simple highway,
Between the dawn and the dark of night,
And if you go no one may follow,
That path is for your steps alone.

Ripple in still water,
When there is no pebble tossed,
Nor wind to blow.

You who choose to lead must follow
But if you fall you fall alone,
If you should stand then who's to guide you?
If I knew the way I would take you home.

posted April 21, 2006 09:30 PM              

What you said about anthropologists and geologists uncovering many things that were contained in Scripture is very true. Those things have been shown on shows like National Geographic and the History channel. Not to mention in all the news.

I forget where it was found, will have to look it up, but not too long ago they uncovered Solomon's stables.

Also regarding historians, yes indeed, the Roman Empire kept very good records of all that transpired in their empire and the dates. That is why they are the blue print for all governments today. Including our own Senate. The crucifixon of Jesus ( though not named ) was recorded in their records and many of the events surrounding it including the earthquake. Also it was recorded as taking place around the Jewish Feast of Passover. There were three men crucified that day.

Also there is the Shroud of Turin. That has been studied thoroughly by many experts to try and disprove the authenticity of it and even with the use of all our modern technology they proved it was not ink of any kind. Experts thought the imprint on the shroud might have been drawn on there by ink but it has been proven with our modern DNA technology that it was human blood and in fact, Jesus was type O. Fascinating stuff. I imagine there will be more studies done in the future but so far the studies have only proven it is authentic. The shroud is what Jesus was covered with after he died on the cross and was laid in the tomb. It has a head to toe imprint of a man on it. If I recall correctly the people who studied the shroud said that the man in the imprint was about 6 feet tall, unusually tall for a Jew of that time. In Scripture Jesus is said to have had a presence that drew people to him so being taller than most men might have added to that presence.

What lotus (or silverstone?) said about being nailed to the cross through the hands or wrist not being able to support the body weight is correct. However, Jesus was crucified in the normal way and had ropes supporting his arms just as did the other two who were crucified next to him. The other two victims of crucifixion that day did not have nails ( which were actually huge brads ) driven through their hands and feet. Only Jesus had brads driven into his hands and feet as an extra act of cruelty after he was beaten nearly to death by sadistic Roman centurians whose specialty and even delight was in the torture of those turned over to them. It was not a normal procedure of crucifixon in the Roman Empire to nail anyone to the cross. That was reserved for Jesus. What was also a normal procedure of crucifixon in the Roman Empire was to break the legs tho hasten death. They did not do that for Jesus though they broke the legs of the other two men. Instead, they pierced Jesus's side with a sword.

As for the stigmata. It is true that there have been cases where that was manifest by hysteria from the mind. All stigmatas are investigated throughly by the RC Church for that reason. Some have been proven as phoney or from mental causes. As for authentically proven stigmatas I suggest reading about Padre Pio a modern day saint of the 1960s who not only lived most of his life with the stigmata but also had more gifts than any other saint in history. He had the gift of bi-location. He could be in two places at the same time and those events were documented. With the priest shortage today more priests could use that gift. lol Once while Padre Pio was saying mass he was at the same time tending to a dying woman miles away from there. He also had the ability to read souls. If someone was not honest with him in confession he would tell the person to come back when they are sincere "because you forgot to mention, this, this and that." lol All things attributed to Padre Pio have been throughly investigated and documented.

The remains of some saints from very early ages are on display in various churches in the world. Those are the ones who when their body was exhumed for removal were found not to be decomposed. Actually that happened with the body of a civil rights activist in our time, I believe it was Medgar Evers. They exhumed his body at the family's request and it was discovered by the pathologist to have not undergone decay and Evers was murdered in the 60's. The pathologist said he was astounded not only that in over 30's years of burial to find no signs at all of any decay of the body but also, there was such an amazing resemblance to his son who was also present. His son said it was like looking into a mirror.

All these things can be found on the net probably by googling them.

Quote:

And much much more evidences...I think we must leave the work to professionals than do arm chair reading and jump to conclusions too fast too soon.

Agreed, Mannu. Also agreed is how terribly the early Christians suffered and were martyred for their faith. Especially in Caligula's Circus. Where, incidentally St. Peter's Basillica stands today. It was built over the ruins of Caligula's Circus. Somehow seems fitting doesn't it?

posted April 21, 2006 10:41 PM              

I believe virtually nothing of these matters written to date.
I see pieces of the "possible" puzzle scattered amongst definitly false pieces.
False is easier to find than fact.
I do not trust the "professionals", their minds are too conditioned by their studies and the so called "facts" as written. And while I do study...
AFTER I discover something on my own, to add to my theoritical box of "possibilities".....it is only to see if what is written jives in any way with what I aquired in my own research through very unconventional and secret means.
I do not trust the "evidence" of experts or professionals in those subject matters. They are biased by virtue of their expertise and degreed study. And armchair experts...are only buying the "facts" as presented by those experts and professionals, or even worse at times, new age tripe.
That does not mean professionals are completely off base nor their research useless. It simply means they have for the most part set their opinions and theories too often as fact....and cannot go outside the so called "accepted" as fact(not actual facts"} to consider anything too far afield from what they were taught or studied, or their colleagues will shun or ridicule them.
Immanuel Velokovsky experienced such ridicule.
Too many folks out there with a Fortean outlook on things, or dogmatically accepted outlooks, who have hit the glass ceiling and have become infected with the dreaded "Hardening Of The Categories". A terrible affliction related to the collapse into insanity which follows a radical paradigm shift of the mind/psyche that has been hard wired to the preconceieved.
A state of blithering in a corner babbling "but but but....this does not compute!"

posted April 22, 2006 12:08 AM            

Thanks Mirandee for that post.
I did hear from some Indian gurus regarding Jesus's commanding presence in their meditative state. Some have said he is not that skinny person shown on the cross. Recently I also saw the news on scientists saying Jesus had to be heavy built to carry that cross. But these are not important. God appears to us in a way we want him to. Just as Mary, the mother appeared in mexico as a dark skinned woman. I have also seen the body of St. Francis Xavier in Goa still in pristine conditions after hundreds of years. The other day my Limo driver mentioned about a conventry in France where the cooking oil never empties. Amazing. Much more I would like to share but afraid it will sound kischky (Is that the rigth word? hehehe)

Lia,
LL sage? Wow, I wish I could maintain that state? Hehehe....I am recently baptized though, meaning free from all sin (thats what they say). I have my weak moments. But I am trying best to maintain a steady state. Trying to perfect myself in flesh. I have miles to go I think. "Flesh is indeed weak when the spirit is willing"

Silverstone,
Thanks for illuminating my path. You/Linda are right, we can only help each other in illuminating our path. Truth is indeed subjective and must be experienced on an individual basis. And some Indian gurus have contemplated a place of absolute bliss in their meditative state. A place of absolute truth underlying all reality. Did you read Carl Jung? Great Leo wisdom in his thoughts?

BTW I believe that our journey should really not be looked on as a path. A path would mean there is a destination. We have never ceased to have existed not will we ever be. Just live in peace every moment with that knowledge. Now you don't have to believe it because i said it. We must experience it.

posted April 22, 2006 04:32 AM              

Lotus are you there?

Cheers