posted August 30, 2006 02:38 PM            

quote:

---

I have this thing where in my life, I always feel I'm at a zero-state-clean-slate with people. Continuously clearing the past and renewing hope in beautiful, transformative/resolving potential with them. I don't know how else to be. It seems a way that I have no control over, but just is, for going with my natural intuitions of heart. I've often prayed it wasn't so...in the most heartbreaking times of disappointment and sorrow. When once again,hope is shattered.
Time moves on...the wound heals. Once again I'm at zero, crazily believing.

Good or bad? I don't know anymore.
If not for hope...what point is there, what meaning could be found in this existance?

---

Quoting Lia again, because I started to write something, but it became too convoluted.
This is almost where I am again, though, with the one person I've been avoiding ~ giving them another chance, because everyone makes mistakes, and I can't stand the thought of shutting someone out forever. I don't know. The thought of being around him still makes me uncomfortable, but he has apparently made progress.

I haven't read the rest of this thread yet, but saw hippichick's post:

quote:

---

I have had a problem with knowing when to stop and wondering if the lesson/s have been learned yet, but maybe this is all a lesson in itself. Maybe all can not be resolved in this lifetime (although that is the point, I do not want to do this with him again in another lifetime) but I do feel that I am creating more negative karma by letting him get to me and starting the stuff all over again.

Anyway, thank you all for your wise words of wisdom, I have taken to heart, and pray for the strength to keep off of this wheel from which I have lept most recently!

---

hippichick

quote:

---

***********Sometimes all we can do is move on. Loving does not mean being used as a door mat or whipping boy/girl. Or being taken for granted.

---

posted September 07, 2006 08:49 AM            

Thanks for the beautiful poem "Trapped", which you wrote and which you posted and shared with us on July 1- I believe it tells the feelings of many others.

Lia,

By reading all your posts here, I think I came to understand your notions better. It is interesting to discuss individual karma and collective karma, especially the latter- and it's not so infrequent that you can identify with the ideologies of HSC...I'd like to clarify here that I really don't want to make what I personally think as Free Will one absolute which is in stark contrast to God's will. These are not two absolutes; also, I have said previously that I refused to abandone ego, and that denouncing ego is only self-deception, an illusion and temporary escape- but I do keep in mind at all times that Linda wrote in Love Signs that what makes Pisces stronger than Scorpio is that Pisces is [symbolically] about humility, while Scorpio is [symbolically] about EGO. She reiterated that she had written the word ego in capital letters in order to stress that how "big" ego seems, but in essence, humility precedes ego...and that's what I believe, actually.

So, I hope you don't misunderstand me and think that I perceive individual free will and God's will as two polar opposites, or two absolutes- I don't think they are. They mingle, they influence each other.

I'm sorry about your uncle's suicide, your turmoil with an erstwhile friend of yours, and all the heartaches you have suffered from romantic love relationships. I think you're a quite wonderful lady, Lia , so please try to be strong for yourself, and take care. You have inspired, and can continue to inspire, so many others. I applaud for you

The library is closing in two minutes. I hope I will come back to give you folks more feedback.

posted March 17, 2007 03:00 AM              

Glad that you bumped it up.

posted September 02, 2007 12:26 PM            

Just a reminder!!!

Lotus good insight:

Quote:

I guess we need to practice what we preach, huh?
LOve and Respect for ALL. ...

posted September 02, 2007 02:21 PM              

Oh my gosh! You know, it's hard to practice what we preach! The good thing about Life=File, is even if we fall, we can get up again, we can try to do better..to undertake to do all with LOve and Reverence for ALL..Everything we do affects the whole, we are all connected, all Divine Children of God..we can alter the future probabilities, make this World a better place, and it starts with each one of Us, as an individual, working together, for Our Promise for Tomorrow, and no more sorrow. ...

LOve and Reverence to ALL... .

posted September 02, 2007 03:27 PM              

Cheers!

posted September 02, 2007 05:19 PM              

quote:

---

"But it makes me wonder, I mean the victims are only 1/2 of the story what about the others, the Hitlers, Himmlers and Mengeles? Or did they all go directly to the burning fires of hell? Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
I guess I ask because it scares me. How could someone ever make up for those crimes perpetrated in a former life?"

---

To continue:
The story of the two women fighting over the baby in King Solomon's day.

Two women, who were living in the same house, each had a child at about the same time. One of the infants died. The conflict began after the woman who lost her baby switched her dead infant with the living infant of the other woman. Both were harlots, there was no father to help make an identification, so the matter was brought before Solomon. What to do? There were no modern-day fingerprints (or footprints) or photographs available; all that Solomon had to work with was human nature. So, Solomon resorted to a ruse with sword that had the effect of revealing the truth.

quote:

---

Then came there two women, that were harlots, unto the king, and stood before him. And the one woman said, O my lord, I and this woman dwell in one house; and I was delivered of a child with her in the house. And it came to pass the third day after that I was delivered, that this woman was delivered also: and we were together; there was no stranger with us in the house, save we two in the house."
"And this woman's child died in the night; because she overlaid it. And she arose at midnight, and took my son from beside me, while thine handmaid slept, and laid it in her bosom, and laid her dead child in my bosom. And when I rose in the morning to give my child suck, behold, it was dead: but when I had considered it in the morning, behold, it was not my son, which I did bear."

"And the other woman said, Nay; but the living is my son, and the dead is thy son. And this said, No; but the dead is thy son, and the living is my son. Thus they spake before the king."

"Then said the king, The one saith, This is my son that liveth, and thy son is the dead: and the other saith, Nay; but thy son is the dead, and my son is the living."

"And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other."

"Then spake the woman whose the living child was unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, but divide it."

"Then the king answered and said, Give her the living child, and in no wise slay it: she is the mother thereof."

"And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment." (1 Kings 3:16-28 KJV)

---

quote:

---

Baby found alive; woman arrested
Saturday, December 18, 2004 Posted: 3:14 PM EST (2014 GMT)

(CNN) -- Authorities late Friday said a Kansas woman who had a miscarriage earlier this year confessed to strangling a pregnant Missouri woman in her home and then cutting the baby from her womb -- a crime the local sheriff described as the most gruesome he had ever seen.

Lisa Montgomery, 36, of Melvern, Kansas, was arrested and charged in the kidnapping of the child "resulting in the death of the infant's mother" Bobbie Jo Stinnett, 23, according to an FBI affidavit filed late Friday.

If convicted, Montgomery could face a maximum of life in prison or the death penalty, and a maximum $250,000 fine.

The infant girl has been recovered and was in good condition at Stormont-Vail Regional Medical Center in Topeka.

The girl's father was reunited with her Friday evening, authorities said. She was the couple's first child.

"The baby is fine. The baby is doing great," U.S. Attorney Todd Graves said.

Stinnett was found dead in a pool of blood in her home Thursday afternoon by her mother, who called 911 saying it looked "as though her daughter's stomach had exploded," according to the affidavit.

Crime scene investigators later determined her womb had been cut laterally, the baby removed and the umbilical cord cut, the affidavit said.

"The victim was found with blond hair clenched in her hands," the affidavit says.

Town in shock
The crime shocked Skidmore, a town of about 300 people, with some residents shuttering their doors, saying they no longer felt safe.

"It's very hard for me to accept this," Nodaway County Sheriff Ben Espey told reporters. "Nobody here could ever perceive this taking place -- to have a fetus taken out of someone's womb and then doing an Amber Alert to try to find a child."

The affidavit paints a picture of deceit and premeditation on the part of Montgomery.

It alleges that the woman, using a fictitious name, contacted Stinnett on Wednesday through an Internet chat room about looking at rat terriers the Stinnetts sold over the Internet.

The two agreed to meet Thursday at Stinnett's home. Then, on Thursday afternoon, a neighbor reported seeing a dirty, red pinkish, two-door vehicle -- most likely an import -- outside the Stinnett home.

With a search under way on the ground, computer investigators began talking with Internet providers and were able to trace the fictitious e-mailer to the Montgomery's home, more than 130 miles away.

Authorities immediately began surveillance of the home and saw Montgomery Friday with a "newborn female infant," according to the affidavit
They also noticed a vehicle matching the description of the one seen outside the Stinnett's home. It alleges that the suspect's husband, Kevin, told authorities his wife called him shortly after he arrived home from work Thursday, around 5:15 p.m., saying she had gone shopping in Topeka, went into labor and had a baby.

The husband and the couple's two high-school age children drove to Topeka and met Montgomery in the parking lot of a Long John Silver's restaurant. He, his wife and the child drove home in his pickup truck, and the older children drove his wife's car, a red Toyota Corolla, the affidavit alleges.

Montgomery told her husband the baby was born at a women's clinic in Topeka, but authorities said a subsequent check there revealed no babies were born there Thursday.

Once in custody, the affidavit alleges, Montgomery "confessed to having strangled Stinnett and removing the fetus. Lisa Montgomery further admitted the baby she had was Stinnett's baby and that she had lied to her husband about giving birth to a child."

Espey and Graves said Montgomery had a miscarriage at some point this year, although they would not say how recently it occurred.

Espey told CNN the pregnancy was six months along when the child was lost. Of the possible motive in this case, Espey said, "I think she was probably going to take it because she had lost one through a miscarriage at about six months."

Authorities expressed great relief that the child was recovered alive, and attributed that success to the Amber Alert system.

Authorities learned of the Internet chat room where Montgomery allegedly made contact with Stinnett from a tipster in North Carolina. "We may have not ever recovered this little baby if the Amber Alert system was not put into place," Espey told reporters. "I'm overwhelmed with the fact that we're going to be able to get this baby back."

Sgt. Sheldon Lyon, a spokesman with the Missouri State Highway Patrol, said, "This is a great day for law enforcement in northwest Missouri."

The Internet chat room "Ratter Chatter," a haven for rat terrier lovers in cyberspace, was overwhelmed with responses from its users, many of whom indicated they knew both the victim and suspect in the case.

"I cannot believe how sorrowful I am. They have taken Lisa into custody. I don't know what is worse -- the horrible crime -- or the possibility that it might be Lisa. Someone just shoot me," wrote one user by the name of Jill.

Another user named Teresa wrote, "I am sitting here in shock, not knowing how to break this. I just received a phone call from a reporter in Missouri saying that Bobbie was killed today and her fetus stolen! I am absolutely horrified!"

Skidmore was the subject of intense media attention in 1981, when town bully Ken Rex McElroy was shot to death in his pickup on the main street in front of more than 40 witnesses. Despite a lengthy investigation, none of the witnesses would identify the killer.

---

There are other similar cases:

quote:

---

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/13/pregnantwoman.attacked/index.html
DA: Woman tried to cut baby from neighbor

Friday, October 14, 2005; Posted: 9:51 a.m. EDT (13:51 GMT)
CNN) -- A Pennsylvania woman beat her eight-month pregnant neighbor with a baseball bat before taking her to a remote area and trying to cut out her unborn baby, a district attorney said Thursday.
SEE THE Above link if you wish to read this one in its entireity.

---

So who are the victims and who are the murderers?
When past lives are added into the equation the reasons for certain horrific actions change...at least in theory.
Oh yes, the victim indeed can be innocent, no past life reason for them to suffer thusly, as in children, I especially feel they are innocent victims. Karmic justice only works if the victim is old enough to understand. A child is not. And I feel adult victims can be innocent of past life crimes. The ones who hurt or kill them just pick at random and for no other reason. So even with Karmic debts and reincarnation taken into account, it is not a case of simple black and white.

So before judging any human as inherently damned or evil or even an innocent victim...look at what may be the Karmic factors at work.
The exceptions I feel are most commonly children or young folks. Though some adults who are victims may be simply random targets.

posted September 02, 2007 05:34 PM              

Isn't life about choices? what would it matter what people did before or what has been done to them even now? in this life...
You can not mend a wrong with a wrong, you should always do right, even if wrong is done to you.
Just my opinion... but I guess your point is on judging, and yes this is why I "try" very hard not to judge and this is why we must educate.

posted September 02, 2007 05:47 PM              

There is no judge, we judge ourSelves by our choices, creating karma..you get what you give..
and this carries over into this life, from past
lives..The Universal Laws are immutable..
til we reach a balance and pay our debts..
Forgive ALL, come full-serpent-circle..
Mastership. ...

Okay, off to work, be back around 11

posted September 02, 2007 06:23 PM            

Quote:

Forgive ALL, come full-serpent-circle..
Mastership. ...

The snake eating it's own tail, perfect-serpent-circle!!!!

posted September 02, 2007 06:29 PM            

Is revenge , vengence, sometimes justified? Of course it is!
But should we enact it?
Later folks.

There Are no Justified Resentments!!!!

You hear people say this all the time: " I have a right to be upset because of the way I've been treated. I have a right to be angry, hurt, depressed, sad and resentful." Learning to avoid this kind of thinking is one of my top ten secrets for living a life of inner peace, sucess, and happiness. Anytime you're filled with resentment, you're turning the controls of your emotional life over to others to manipulate.

I become aware of how powerful this lesson was many years ago while sitting in on a meeting of 12 people who were in recovery gruop for alcoholism and drug addiction. All 12 of those people were accustomed to blaming others for their weakknesses, using almost any excuse as a rationale for returning to their self-defeating ways. On a poster hanging in the room were these words: In this group, there are no justified resentments."

Regardless of what anyone would say to another group member, no matter how confrontional or ugly the accusations, each person was reminded that there are no justified resentments. You may need to consider whom you resent before you can make your own choice about whether this is useful for you.
Resentments give you an excuse to turn to your old ways. This is what got you there in the first place!

Taken from my Book " 10 Secrets for Success and Inner Peace. " By Dr.Wayne Dyer

posted September 02, 2007 06:42 PM            

If you seek revenge, vengence, sometimes justifitied? Of course it is!

This above behaviour just keeps it going, the cycle. Revennge, vengence is sometimes justified???? Never!!!!

Or the payback cycle will keep spinning over and over.
And again, who is evil what is evil?

posted September 02, 2007 09:31 PM              

quote:

---

Isn't life about choices? what would it matter what people did before or what has been done to them even now? in this life...
You can not mend a wrong with a wrong, you should always do right, even if wrong is done to you.

---

posted September 02, 2007 11:00 PM            

Quote:

Stop taking my words out of context little MS revenege and anger incarnate! You are a master of vengence over your being rejected or upset over folks who disagree with you.
I said it is not right to ever inact it.

That is a choice no matter how anyone may feel. I saw others perfectly happy and thrilled to inact vengeance upon a man, who did indeed deserve it. People who claim to be forgiving. By society's codes that was right to do. And are you saying he does not deserve it? Are the Jews justified in their anger and hurt and loss over the Holocaust? Of course their feelings are justified! But does that mean they should go run amok and murder Germans now?
You told everyone how much you hate my guts
and now here you are to twist my words because you were denied your ongoing thrill of attacking me without justification on a thread now deleted.
Your buddy never passed on the message that I do not hate you. Or did she? Seems not. I don't know what game you are playing but back off Solane, your hate was deleted along with that thread and I will not play your headgames.
Anyone want to talk sensibly about this instead of trying to stir up trouble, I will reply to you but anyone wanting to fight you can talk to yourself!
I still do not hate you Solane but I do pity you. But I also will not sit here and be your punching bag.
------------------

Why did you change it, because you don't mean what you said with your hateful words towards me???

It looks as if you change your own words, not me!!!!!

posted September 02, 2007 11:17 PM            

Quote:

Any fool can quote wisdom, but if it is not learned and lived it is just that, a fool quoting the wisdom of others.

I'm just a FOOL Quoting Wisdom!!!!

Thanks for all your kind and loving words Fayte, you must be right!!!!

posted September 02, 2007 11:26 PM              

Forgive one another, come full-serpent-circle..
take caution, and use LOve, when you write..
remember there are two sides to everything, try to put yourSelf in others shoes..to see their point of view..sometimes, we need to back off..
and give one another space and time..to let wounds heal, time for contemplation, and to come to an understanding of why, things are happening..to accept that, when we are mistreated, it is because we mistreated them or another at some point..that truly, you get what you give..I've made my mistakes, and will probably make more, but darn it, I do my best, to treat all with LOve and Respect and Reverence, because each one of you is unique and special, and connected..important to this world, and mastering ourSelves..united with God, and Our Souls, The Truth...