posted March 10, 2007 07:10 PM            

You said it right, to not comment unless the whole letter is read. So for now.

Stephen,

Although I do understand your concerns for people who are easily brainwashed. But after what you did with her letters, you can never be on my circle of friends. Sorry my opinion.

I only see love in the 10 commandement from God. Where does it tell you what happens if you break the law? Its the peoples interpretation of the details.

Yes Jesus, thought about forgiveness. The only way IMHO to break the endless cycle of karma. Hopefully when one evolves significantly, they will never endanger themselves to fall back in the trap.

Most people also do not understand the humaness of Jesus. They want to believe in something greater power who could rescue them. Lift your own cross dudes.

Most people say Jesus is the only son of God. Not sure where this teaching came from. There is only one source/only one God in heaven who have created all things and unseen.

Anyway back to reading those letters. It does have lot of good wisdom that I need to grab before people who are afraid of their own beliefs chase the author away

posted March 10, 2007 08:22 PM            

quote:

---

Although I do understand your concerns for people who are easily brainwashed. But after what you did with her letters, you can never be on my circle of friends. Sorry my opinion.

---

She is committing a great crime.
I would be complicit not to report it.
If you think that makes me a "rat",
or someone unfit for your circle of friends,
I would not want to belong to that circle.

quote:

---

I only see love in the 10 commandement from God. Where does it tell you what happens if you break the law? Its the peoples interpretation of the details.

---

I am not qualified to answer this.
But I do not think it is healthy for your spirit
to reflect upon the breaking of the law.
Think of the victory of righteousness, goodness, love, truth.
In this way you will magnetize these things to you.

quote:

---

Yes Jesus, thought about forgiveness. The only way IMHO to break the endless cycle of karma. Hopefully when one evolves significantly, they will never endanger themselves to fall back in the trap.

---

Only a person of profound spiritual insight is capable of distinguishing which of the sayings attributed to Jesus are likely to have actually been spoken by him, or someone of his spiritual comprehension. It is one thing to teach about forgiveness, and another thing to teach about the consequences of not forgiving. It is one thing to speak about the light, and another thing to speak about the darkness. The higher a person attains, the more they speak of the light. They understand that the darkness will take care of itself. By looking at the darkness, you only attract it into your life. Think about fear, and you become afraid. So, the true master does not speak of darkness at all. In His kingdom, it has no presence, no substance, no being. Only light is real. You spoke of forgiveness. The highest wisdom is beyond even forgiveness. Forgiveness implies that some wrong has been done. But there is no wrong in heaven. So the Master speaks of understanding. Understanding makes forgiveness unnecessary and obsolete.

quote:

---

Most people also do not understand the humaness of Jesus. They want to believe in something greater power who could rescue them. Lift your own cross dudes.

---

Jesus is just a symbol for an extremely powerful and empowering idea. Why is Jesus called "the Word of God"? Because he is a symbol of God. He is the offspring of two eternal verities: Love and Being. He is the marriage and child of these two. He is the idea that Being and Love are not separate, but, are, in fact, one thing. That is why he is called "the Way, the Truth, and the Life". All spiritual progress (and all true progress is spiritual) is dependent upon the awareness of this divine union. When we no longer require two words to express the idea of "Love" and "Being", it will be because we have, finally, begun to understand God's word for us. It is said that Sanskrit is a sacred language. I do not know how sacred the Sanskrit language is, or if it uses the same word for these "two" concepts, but it seems to me that no language can be truly sacred if it does not. The language of the future will do this. And the more we come to associate the concept of love with the concept of being, the closer we will come to the experience of harmony with the universe.

quote:

---

Most people say Jesus is the only son of God. Not sure where this teaching came from.

---

This is the teaching of the Western Tradition which has come down to us at this present day and age. For two thousand years, Jesus has been the name of the Master for the Western World, but those two thousand years are just a drop in the bucket. If you prefer to think of Buddha, think of Buddha. There are many legendary saviors. Because the symbols/language of Christianity is so familiar to me, having grown up in the Western world, I speak of Jesus and Christ. If I had been born it Tibet, I would most likely speak of Siddhartha and The Buddha. But these names are only words for the same thing. There are differences in the stories, but these are merely superficial.

quote:

---

There is only one source/only one God in heaven who have created all things and unseen.

---

I agree,
and that one source is not separate from the creation,
but,
it has a nature which it is fulfilling,
and in its deepest being, in spirit,
it has already fulfilled its nature,
for it has drafted the blueprint of its potential.
All Spirit is manifesting.

quote:

---

Anyway back to reading those letters. It does have lot of good wisdom that I need to grab before people who are afraid of their own beliefs chase the author away

---

posted March 11, 2007 12:29 AM            

I still see nothing wrong in the authors statement. Is the rest of the world wrong when they blame US for whats happening in Iraq? Half of American's probably will say yes, because they do not suppor the war. But America (a country) is a collection of people. Same with her Iraq statement.

They are reaping the Karma of the individual people who refused to oust Saddam.

Showing compassion is one thing, and also taking care of government the other.

Is Jesus wrong in givin dues to Caesar?
He said give unto Caesar whats due him.

Think about it, the presence of Romans was more justified because the jews and other people were always fighting in that area.
The Romans were in some way responsible for laying ground rules and building roads etc.
Jesus was a great visionary I believe.

This is what is happening in present Iraq. People are fighting amongst themselves, even though they belong to same nation Iraq. Thats ridiculous.

Perhaps she is bearing more good fruits than you , even though its false teachings as per you. Did you see that Steve martin movie, about the false preacher. Did you notice how in the end God moves him by performing a real miracle? I can't remember the name of the movie.

Every one's a worker of God. God always talks but its we who do not listen.

BTW scorps are the second most stubborn sign, right after taurus (IMO)

posted March 11, 2007 12:51 AM            

Sanskrit is a sacred language but so is Hebrew.

Thoughts have no language they are just random and sequential. We must control them.

Sanskrit is considered sacred because of the vibration it produces when we speak it.

Think about what you said earlier about darkness. Lucifer is supposed to be the morning star. He was beautiful and full of light. Yet he was cast away from the presence of God , as per the Bible.

Look around you 95 percent of this universe is full of dark matter and dark energy.
Read about Ramkrishna Parahamsa, he talks in length about darkness. Perhaps your opinion will change.

posted March 11, 2007 01:04 AM            

>>>But I do not think it is healthy for your spirit to reflect upon the breaking of the law.

Every one breaks the law dude. Rules are meant to be broken. Although it is beneficial in the end to follow it

posted March 11, 2007 01:06 AM            

Atleast it could have been done in a respectful way, is all I was wishing.
Appears you contacted her to get proofs. Thats so weird.

Ok..have to run. Probaly won't be back until Monday.

posted March 11, 2007 10:35 AM              

The true KINGDOM of HEAVEN on earth.

'I would that you could see and experience the world as it really could be for you. The living world, the entire creation ringing with joy. Your world has been created by LOVE, designed by LOVE to meet the personal needs of every single living entity as it has evolved over the millions of years of existence. If only you could become aware of this glorious joy and glowing LOVE as you walk in your garden or countryside.

If only you could enter into the consciousness of a magnificent tree as it stands straight and tall, spreading its branches for the birds to alight upon it and make their nest. If only you could enter into the consciousness of a bird as it finds the best nesting place, experience its pleasure and feel its love for the tree which provides a home and shade.

Everywhere, there is a reciprocity of love flowing between living things, plants, insects, birds, animals, fish, and their environment. Only the predators put themselves outside this love consciousness.

Study the eyes of the predators, one and all, and compare their fierce intensity with the eyes of the non-violent herb and grass eaters –there you will see the ferocity of the one and the tranquillity of the other.

As I said when I lived on your earth:

'The eyes are the lamp of the soul' And what you have not realized is that all eyes radiate to the world the inner quality of being. They radiate the inner consciousness which blesses what it sees – or shrivels it up with its own bad temper.

When you live entirely in your human consciousness, your thoughts, habitual modes of speech, your continual assessment of people and externals, you are unable to partake in this JOY of EXISTENCE which spontaneously wells up in the consciousness of all non-violent living things - felt by all peaceful living things, - unless denied sustenance by drought.

You cannot feel it because your minds have developed along the lines of logic and reason and you act according to your will, imagination, desires and ego - and all of this mental actvity blocks your spiritual mind at the top of your head; it prevents sixth sense contact with the beautiful world in which you live and which you do not remotely understand at all. You can see the bodies and the activities of insects, birds and animals, but you cannot enter into the consciousness of their mostly innocent, uncontaminated vitalizing life force.

You may think their consciousness is possibly like yours. But you would be wrong - because all living things other than humans, live by intuition - and communicate in a way which is impossible to humans. Yes, they communicate very clearly - over long distances. Yes, they communicate and rejoice together, more than you'll ever know.

It is the Hermit who sits with his begging bowl and meditates who may soar into infinity and experience the joy and the glory of Divine Consciousness in which WE, you and I, ALL live and draw our eternal life and being. The Hermit can experience it in the silence and stillness of his mind, and can be uplifted into such ecstasy that he has no need of worldly living - indeed, he runs away from it.

People will say: "How wonderful, he has given up his life for God". But this is an erroneous perception. He gives up normal daily living to find the TRUE LIFE of GLORY out of which all creation has taken its form and being. There can be no greater experience of a glowing radiance and spiritual ecstasy than this.

But - it is escapism offering great rewards and also defeating the purposes of existence in your world.
It is marvellous and wonderfully uplifting to rest in the effulgence of absolute Love and Tranquillity for a while and possess knowledge of this wonderful dimension of eternity for yourself. Here your mind may enter into transcendent facets of universal knowledge.

YOUR HUMAN LIFE TAKES ON NEW LUSTRE, LIGHT AND JOY AND GREATER MEANING. But it is not your true purpose in life.

Your true purpose on earth is to EXPRESS in thoughts, words, deeds and desires the DIVINITY in which you have your being.

You can do this through meditation, through cleansing your mind of negative thoughts, by reaching out to others during the day to offer them a smile of friendliness, recognition of their being - that they too are ALIVE and are therefore important - co-existent with yourself, no matter what their status is in life.

What a tremendous joy it is to be able to love the man who has come down to rags, possessing nothing of material things, forced to live by begging - just as much as you may be able to love the man who has made untold wealth, prestige, and lives a life envied by others. This ability to love each and everyone without reservations, is indeed DIVINE LOVE - pure unconditional love. It is a quality of mind and heart where all sense of superiority or inferiority no longer exists.

"Why should this bring one so much joy?', you may ask.

It gives you joy beyond all imagining because you have risen high above the demands and critical senses of the self which judge and demean others.

What tremendous liberation of spirit you will experience when you can, at last, be insulted or defrauded by another but can still look through his words and actions and perceive his basic divinity. You now rest in a state of pure tranquil acceptance of what the human world may try to do to you and you never cease smiling - because yours is a world of sunshine and spiritual light created by the Divine –
and you are aware that those who try to hurt you have not yet managed to find this sacred world conceived and fashioned by Pure Love.

Knowing this so surely, so clearly, how can you NOT have only the deepest compassion and concern for them as they struggle, sometimes bravely , with their enmeshing ego?

As you learn to love all states of human being equally, you will come to intuit the actual state of earthly being of each person and will be able to perceive for yourselves what is valuable in life and what is mere ego 'frosting' for comfort and prestige.

You will no longer be led astray – or even moved – by outward show.

If you study Letters 4A and 4B, you will be able to clearly see exactly why I say the world is made by LOVE, IN LOVE and sustained by LOVE. When you fully understand why this is so, it is possible that you will go further in realization and will see that to entertain any thoughts contrary to LOVE shuts you out of the basic Reality of Existence - it places you in a shadowy world where you can no longer see the world created by Divine Consciousness after the Big Bang - you can only see the IMAGES of that living world and cannot feel their joy.

Dwell for a moment on your world as it is today - the average mentality of men and women governed by ego - and then think of the joy and beauty of WHAT REALLY IS just beyond your normal vision - out of sight because of human thought - and HUMAN BEHAVIOUR.

All of my Letters are directed only at helping you lift yourselves out of any present misery you may be enduring and to make genuine contact with Divine Consciousness which will immediately set about rebuilding your health, strength and inner direction towards higher goals of existence. You can come out of your hell - but only YOU can do it for yourself. YOU must do the work initially but you can invite Divine Consciousness to enter your mind and heart and give you added strength to ensure you succeed.

As more and more people of a like-spirituality and spiritual perception bond together to seek the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, so will there be little pockets of spirit luminescence lighting up that dark world of yours, inviting more and more of its members to join you in your happiness.

How do you cleanse your consciousness? Remember that if you rely ONLY on your own human consciousness, you are calling up your ego to drive away your ego thoughts - and this is impossible. Ego cannot overcome ego. You have to wake up to the realization that above the human consciousness is the Super Consciousness of Divine Consciousness described in Letters 4A and B, 5 and 6. In Letter 4 B - page 21-24.

You will never be able to enter into the consciousness of plant and insect life, because yours is a world of logical thought. But you can enter into Heaven on earth by learning how to get in touch with Divine Consciousness and inviting It to fill your mind and heart, giving new direction to your thought life – and then to your future life and activities as well.

I long for you to find true freedom from the ego and enter into the transcendent joy of Divinity whilst still on earth."

From CHRIST'S LETTERS--CHRIST'S WAY

posted March 11, 2007 10:59 AM              

Thank you so much for this statement. Apparently the person who started this thread HSC--fails to recognize that. HSC keeps making references to "God" --God doesn't exist--we are all gods/ goddesses in potentia. His view of the baptism of Jesus is filtered through his belief system and it is far more distorted than the Christ Letters could ever be.
Jesus in Christ Consciousness has retained much of his humaness--or he would not be interested in descending through layers and layers of lower vibratory consciousness to speak to us.
Mannu, Continue to raise your frequency and you will speak with Christ directly. The letters, however "flawed", are a great place to start. I have not been scared away from these boards. Although I am not the Recorder, I have great respect for this woman.
As for HSC, I believe that he is a Jesus-wannabe-imposter--far too caught up in his own ego vibrations of sorrow and suffering to have clear and dynamic communication with Christ. Jesus would never have hung this thread up to air like HSC did. I am not moved by a childish tantrum. Christ Consciousness still nevertheless, extends his love to HSC.

posted March 11, 2007 11:44 AM            

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

posted March 12, 2007 07:33 AM            

~ Omaha Indian Proverb

posted March 12, 2007 07:37 AM              

bad karma...knowingly doing wrong. ...is really bad...

posted March 12, 2007 07:58 AM              

bad karma

you get what you give...
The Universal Laws
of Justice and Balance

and it's up to you
No One else
your free wi11 choice

posted March 12, 2007 09:06 AM            

I asked you what cause you have to accuse me of being afraid of my beliefs. You replied:

quote:

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Because people have this general tendency to not let go of their most cherished possession (be it some object or dogmas)

---

So, because "people" have this general tendency, you are accusing me, an individual? You have no other reason than this? I have done nothing to give you the impression that this is the case with me, other than try to expose a religious fraud, which you assume must (you did not say "people who tend to be afraid" but "people who are afraid") be motivated by fear of having my own beliefs exposed to scrutiny. Whatever.

And yes, the author and the world are wrong to assign blame to any one thing in the universe (whether it is the U.S., or anything else). Blame is not a concept which holds together in the Mind of God. The higher your perspective, the more thin the air becomes, and a mortal concept, like blame, cannot breathe at such pure heights. From the perspective of Christ Consciousness, All is One, so nothing is to blame. Yes, things have local causes, but there is only one ultimate cause. We must be in the world and not of it. This means recognizing that things have local causes and working to change things, but not in such a way as to suggest that the local cause of a thing is its ultimate cause, and certainly not in such a way as to suggest (or declare as Gospel!!!) that any person or group of people is deserving of suffering.

The Karmic Law is not about punishment, but instruction. It was written so that we may learn, not so that we may be judged. It is a rule, but it does not rule us. It is a ruler, only in the sense that it measures our progress. God does not condemn us for our mistakes. He does not deem us "guilty" of the suffering caused by our mistakes, or "deserving" of the suffering which returns to us from those whom our mistakes have caused to suffer. He weeps, and He stands ready to comfort us, whenever we decide to stop blaming each other, and start working together. He cannot comfort us until we stop fighting. That is the meaning of free will. We must stop fighting before He can comfort us. But we are not free to stop. We are too busy. We are still making mistakes! We have so many to make. There's just not enough time to make them all in! And not until we make our last mistake will we be truly free to turn to God. Not until the last ounce of the law is fulfilled. That is the Last Judgment. And we are the ones who judge. It is only after we make the last judgment, and finally stop judging, that we will be free to open our lives to God, and God will be free to come into our lives. "How often have I called my sheep unto me, but they would not be gathered together?"

quote:

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Showing compassion is one thing, and also taking care of government the other.

---

Yes, but the two needn't be separate. We can govern compassionately, and that is the point. You will never teach governments, or individuals, to be peaceful by using violent means. Only by being peaceful and compassionate can you take care of government. The key words here are "take care". People often rush off to assume the affairs of governing (their lives and the lives of others), and forget to take care. No matter how impatient you are to restore order, this essential part must not be left behind.

We must be in the world, but not of it. We must work to find peace, and we must discern the local sources of our problems, but never forgetting that the true source of all things is God, and, not until this source is given its due will all the lesser causes of problems cease. Symptoms in the world are caused by obstructions in the world, as in the hearts of men, but these obstructions are symptomatic themselves of some greater spiritual malady. We must re-orient ourselves entirely. As we look with our outer, bodily eyes, to the symptom, or particular goverment, which is presenting the immediate problem, let us look at the same time, with an inner, spiritual eye, to the one Source, which is eternally perfect and unobstructed. This is what it means to be in the world, but not of it. It is what it means to have one's values spiritualized; prioritized by God. It will also help you to understand Christ's words about rendering what is due.

Jesus' saying about Caesar is often misinterpreted. Here is the passage:

[19] The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.

[20] Keeping a close watch on him, they sent spies, who pretended to be honest. They hoped to catch Jesus in something he said so that they might hand him over to the power and authority of the governor.

[21] So the spies questioned him: "Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth.

[22] Is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"

[23] He saw through their duplicity and said to them, [24] "Show me a denarius. Whose portrait and inscription are on it?"

[25] "Caesar's," they replied.

He said to them, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

[26] They were unable to trap him in what he had said there in public. And astonished by his answer, they became silent.

- Luke 20

Jesus was opposed to any kind of involuntary servitude. The authority of Caesar and the Romans was a compulsory one. It was a military occupation, like all governments as we know them. When Christ was asked about paying taxes, he was asked by tax-collectors, and it was an attempt to trap him, and get him to say something incriminating. He asked them whose image was on the coin. They said, "Caesar's,". He said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's." That was his response, and it was cryptic. Jesus does not regard appearances, images, or men. When he said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's," he is really saying, "Nothing is Caesar's, because everything is God's. Since everything is God's, give everything to God. When you give everything to God, you will have no need of money. Money is just the outward shell. If caesars and men want money, you may let them have it." Remember, Jesus often told people to sell their goods and give all the money to the poor. Not to Caesar.

Your argument, comparing the Jews of Christ's time, and the Iraqis of today is rather curious. By your own logic, The United States is playing the part of Rome, and introducing order among a lawless people. But I thought your argument was that the U.S. is the problem? What would your Jesus say, if he was an Iraqi? What would he say ought to be rendered unto Bush?

The Steve Martin movie ("Leap of Faith")
has what to do with this?
The miracle in that movie occurred
inspite of the cynicism of the man, yes,
but, because of the faith of the boy (Lukas Haas).
I still don't see how it applies to our discussion.
Who is the man?
Who is the boy?
What is being healed?
How is it being prayed over?

Scorps are indeed stubborn, but they also go through greater transformations than any other sign. The kind of stubbornness a Scorpio has is the kind of stubbornness that doesn't rest until it gets to the roots of a problem (and the only problem a true Scorpio concerns him/herself with is the ultimate problem of existence; good and evil; sin and redemption). Its the reason Scorpio and Pluto are associated with greatness, genius, and sainthood, more than any other sign and planet. You once criticized me for being a "chameleon"; you said I kept changing my colors (my beliefs and arguments) to suit my convenience. Now you are criticizing me because my colors don't run. You were wrong the first time because you did not comprehend the subtlty of my beliefs and arguments. You are wrong now for the same reason.

posted March 12, 2007 09:33 PM            

You are free to ignore me,
if that is how you deal with conflict,
but I feel sorry for you because I know
that would be a very great loss for you.
It may be a long time before you meet with someone
who has as much spiritual insight as I do.
You could learn a lot from me,
if you asked questions instead of making judgments.

I realize that most people cannot read these words
without assuming that I am speaking arrogantly,
just as most people could not speak these words
unless they were speaking arrogantly.
But I am not speaking arrogantly.
I am speaking truthfully.
Consider just for a moment the possibility that I may be right,
and that I really am possessed of a rare understanding.
If I had such an understanding,
would I lie or keep silent about it?
Or would I try to tell you, and share it with you?

In any case,
whether you continue to speak with me,
or merely to speak publicly about me to Mannu,
I will defend myself and my understanding of the Gospel.

You have made several negative accusations about my character, for very specious reasons, but, evidently, that is also just your present way of dealing with this.

quote:

---

Apparently the person who started this thread HSC--fails to recognize that. HSC keeps making references to "God" --God doesn't exist--we are all gods/ goddesses in potentia.

---

When I speak of God I know full well that I am speaking of a spiritual reality, and not a material one. Your words seem to imply that, because God is not a material reality, God does not exist. That is to miss the point of what God is. "God is and is not." - the Upanishads. The absence of God proves His existence. "Who has ears to hear, let them hear."

quote:

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His view of the baptism of Jesus is filtered through his belief system and it is far more distorted than the Christ Letters could ever be.

---

My "view" of the Baptism is a vision, a dream; it is provisional and speculative; it is not set in stone, as dogmas are. It is personally helpful to me, and it is shared because it may be helpful to someone else. Yes, it is filtered through my understanding (I do not have a belief system, only a symbolic, religious language for interpreting my secular experience), because I do not accept things from others without subjecting them to my own understanding. You are invited to do the same, and to discard my vision (or anyone else's) if it does not ring true for you. The essential part of my vision about the Baptism is that love awakened Christ to his purpose, and to the ultimate purpose of life. I'm sorry if you feel this is "far more distorted than the Christ Letters could ever be" with their talk of deserving suffering.

quote:

---

Jesus in Christ Consciousness has retained much of his humaness--or he would not be interested in descending through layers and layers of lower vibratory consciousness to speak to us.

---

On the contrary, it is precisely Christ's divine nature which is interested in descending to speak with us. "The first shall be last and the last shall be first." His human nature wanted nothing to do with us, "Lord, if it be possible, then let this cup pass from me, but, if it is your will, let me drink it. Not my will, but thy will be done." Enlightened souls do not have to take on the heavy vibrations of time and matter in order to communicate with us. They can easily manipulate matter because of their wisdom and love. It is energy to them, and it has become spiritualized to their consciousness, so it is harmless to them. They have attained a level of understanding which allows them to serve, and still know that they are ruling; to sacrifice, and still feel that they are being blessed. This is why they can descend and remain undisturbed. Otherwise, they could be no help to us. Indeed, many visions of Christ have proven false because they could not manifest without becoming corrupted (despite the fact that there are still people who will believe in them, and in the dogmatic arguments invented to excuse their corruption).

quote:

---

I have not been scared away from these boards.

---

No one is trying to scare you,
but someone is trying to help you.

quote:

---

As for HSC, I believe that he is a Jesus-wannabe-imposter--far too caught up in his own ego vibrations of sorrow and suffering to have clear and dynamic communication with Christ.

---

You want to talk about wannabe-imposters? First of all, Moira, I am not the one with a website claiming to be the second coming. Nor have I made any wildly self-aggrandizing claims like the following: "I am the reincarnation of Mary Magdalene--here in my last incarnation." (- moira) I am just a seeker, sincerely trying to understand the message of the Christ. Yes, I want to be like Him. He said "follow me," didn't He? We are supposed to try to understand truth from that high level, and speak from that level to the best of our ability. If you want to see every attempt to reach for the stars as "posing", that is your limitation, not mine. I don't know where you get off casting aspersions about my ego vibrations. I have been presenting a metaphysics which leaves no room for the ego - it doesnt even exist! You are the one talking about your ego and it's "personal responsibility".

quote:

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Jesus would never have hung this thread up to air like HSC did.

---

Jesus went into the cities to speak to the people. He knew what he had to say was important, and he said so. I think what I am saying is important, and I am saying so. You want to accuse me of being self-righteous, why? Because I had the audacity to start a thread?!

quote:

---

I am not moved by a childish tantrum. Christ Consciousness still nevertheless, extends his love to HSC.

---

That's right, Moira. He loves rapists and child-murderers, and, yes, he even loves me, despite the fact that I raise my voice (which you call a childish tantrum - very mature, btw) to defend his true teaching.

quote:

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Posting the photo of himself only proves my point further: EGO DOMINATION is all can see there.

---

LOL. You couldnt resist. Yes, I posted my photo. It must be because I am narcissistic and power-hungry, lol. Nevermind the fact that messoelf showed interest in me and asked me my sun sign. I dont see anything egotistical about being open. In the "real world" you can see the face of the person you are talking to. I show my face because it makes things more "real". I want to be seen, and I want to see who I am talking to. I am not surprised that people might suspect me of unflattering motives, but I am surprised that you would conclude that posting my photos, lol, "proves" that all I can see here is an oportunity for ego domination. Wow, you really are feeling threatened, aren't you?

For the record, I have had to deal with this kind of small-mindedness my whole life. It is not new to me, and I recognize it from a mile away. I am very Plutonian and Uranian, and I naturally do things differently, which, time and time again, is wrongly interpretted by people who assume that I must have this or that motive (usually a bad one) for doing something, simply because it is the motive they would have, and they cannot conceive of anything beyond themselves. "He is doing something different!! He must be trying to stand out. It must be because he wants attention. He must just want attention because he is an egotistical jerk. He couldn't possibly have something important to say, and be trying to get our attention for that reason." Always, people cannot see anything other than their own paranoid projections. It is sad, but I don't let it break me.

quote:

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I will continue to post and ignore him.

---

... And continue to make unfounded negative condemnations of my character to Mannu, so that, at my expense (and at the expense of all scrupulous seekers of truth everywhere), the two of you may feel superior in your complicit "acceptance" and "tolerance" of deliberately flawed teachings. Good for you.

quote:

---

Furthermore I know that you and understand that I posted the link to the Christ Letters here as a blessing and a gift, for all to either take or leave.

---

I assumed that your intention was pure.
I appreciated your gesture and thanked you.
But, unfortunately (for both of us),
your vision is clouded.
I am not sorry I tried to help you see.
But I will leave you alone now,
if my attempts to help are only
going to be met with hostility and judgment.

quote:

---

I can tell you this, the Recorder of the Christ Letters is quoted in books written by Masters who have now Ascended. She is not a FAKE!

---

So you've said, repeatedly. "Me thinks the lady doth protest too much!" Have you any idea how many people are claiming to be channeling Ascended Masters? You believe some but not all of them, right? So, what is your criterea of truth? The only reason I can see to accept channeled material (and I do not say accept that it is what it claims to be - which we may never be in a position to know for sure - but, even accept it as worthy of instructing us) is if it resonates with our highest understanding of love and truth. That is, we must filter it through our own understanding (not just take the word of some mildly charismatic on-line personality).

A teaching that speaks ONLY of love and understanding is of a high order. A teaching that speaks of people deserving to suffer is of a low order. You seem to agree with me, and you were even constrained to argue that the recorder must have made a mistake! When I pointed out to you the fact that the Recorder did not correct that mistake when it was pointed out (and that she, rather, proceeded to defend it, and to openly - at least, to me, but not on her website - confess to and defend the deliberate distortion of higher wisdom), you decided it was time to ignore me, lol. Suit yourself.

But this is still the most important point in our discussion so far, and unless you can argue that the Recorder is correct in saying people deserve to suffer, and that she is correct in saying the truth ought to be distorted, in order to minister to low level people - which is what she thinks of her readers (of you!), in case you failed to pick up on that admission, - unless you are willing to do that, you ought to renounce this Recorder. Either embrace her for what she is (and admits to being) or find another teacher; one who does not feel "called" to dumb-down her teaching, and divest it of what is best in it, and closest to the true spirit of Christ.

hsc

posted March 13, 2007 12:42 PM              

That is because both religion and politics attract many power/control types of people.

Let go of the need to be right and the power and control needs of the ego and then and only then can you even begin to know and understand a little about Jesus or God.

posted March 13, 2007 05:06 PM            

I agree that it is very difficult to discuss these things without losing sight of what is essential, but I don't think we ought to give up trying just because it is so difficult. "Religion", to me, is not merely one aspect of our human experience. It is the language we invent and interpret to understand the ultimate nature and import of all experience. It is more worthy of discussion than any other topic. Because it is so important, it is, naturally, emotionally charged. I agree, it attracts people who understand and appreciate the value of power. It also attracts many impressionable and gullible types, and this is part of the reason those who seek power are drawn to it. Some just want power so they can manipulate people's minds and feelings, for no reason other than the fact that they get-off on having control and being seen as an authority in such important matters. Others want to protect the impressionable from those who would exploit them, and also to genuinely champion the search for ultimate truth against those who would obscure it with false and ignorant teachings. This problem isnt going to solve itself, no matter how many good people turn their backs on it. We have to rise to the challenge, and speak up for the truth, even if it upsets the status quo, and leads to open disagreements. It is better to have conflict, than to allow lies and untruths to be disseminated freely and peacefully. The conflict you see here, Mirandee, is nothing compared to the conflict you see when lies and untruths go unchecked.

hsc

posted March 14, 2007 01:35 AM            

Interesting stuff.

posted March 14, 2007 03:11 AM              

I don't think anyone can change the mind of a gullible person or make them less gullible because people tend to believe what they want to believe or what they NEED to believe. You realize that many think those who follow divination and astrology are gullible and that those things are cultist because they don't believe in it.

When it comes to any kind of spirituality I believe that actions speak much louder than words. Christianity and religions of all kinds are meant to be lived. It is how we live out our beliefs that speak much louder than our words. How much love, compassion and empathy do we have for others? What do we do to reach out and help and care for others, our environment and all living things? What are we doing to make the world a better place and spread love in the world? How much do we come outside of ourselves to reach out to help others in any way we can? Those things speak much louder than words.

Truly knowing Jesus in the heart and soul will be reflected in the words and actions of those who he has touched and those who have opened up their heart to him.

It's okay to say that you don't believe Christs Way to be true. I don't believe it either. But there have been cults which claim they know all truth about Jesus ever since he died over 2000 years ago. As Fayte stated, none of this is new.

Some people dwell on just the humaness of Jesus. Others dwell on just the divinity of Jesus. I believe that Jesus was both human and divine. But when it comes down to it what is most important is our actions and how much love we have for others because that is the gist of his whole message. Before he ascended to heaven Jesus told his disciples, " Moses gave you ten commandments. I leave you with only one commandment, love one another as I have loved you." And he loved us so much he laid down his life for us. Jesus said that because he knew if we only got that one thing right we have no fear of breaking any of the commandments and we have no fear that anyone is going to lead us astray from that path of love.

Hope this makes sense. I have been fighting a flu virus for over a week now and it seems to be winning so I don't know if what I am trying to express came out the way I meant it to be.

posted March 14, 2007 10:11 PM            

Thank you for responding. I felt the purity of your intention, and the peace with which you were able to communicate your views. I'm afraid my train of thoughts is a little disjointed right now, but, if you'll bear with me, I'll try to touch upon everything I want to say.

I think it is important not to judge a book by its cover. Yes, a tree shall be known by its fruits, but, just because lemons are sour does not mean there is no use for them and all lemon trees should be cut down. I believe people are blessed with different spiritual gifts. Some people are gifted with great compassion and the discipline for profound self-sacrifice. Many of these people, despite their actions, lack understanding of human nature and metaphysics, and, for this reason, despite all their good intentions, and all the hard work they are capable of, they are misled into working hard to build towers of Babel.

For instance, the Cure for Cancer has been known for centuries (cleanse the system of blockages, introduce healthy food and excercise, reduce environmental stress), but millions of well-meaning people are fooled into funnelling money into "charities" which go to building expensive chemo-therapy machines (which make life hell for cancer patients) and paying already over-payed doctors to administer their medieval treatments. If people want to stop cancer, they need to support the growing of organic foods, and the disemmination of true information to the public.

The same is true with the spiritual paths people follow. They may have incredible gifts for love and self-sacrfice, but, due to their inability to comprehend the laws of the spiritual universe, they end up spending all their time in prayer (for others), thinking they are doing a great deal of good in the world, while, in fact, their prayers are ineffectively composed, being based on an inferior understanding of metaphysical laws.

Some people are gifted with profound insight into human motivations and abstract principles. They have a great deal to teach us, but they may not always be the most peaceful, giving, social, or layed-back people. Usually, they are Plutonian and foreboding. They make us uneasy. We think they must be "bad". Sometimes they are extremely Uranian and, although great at loving people impersonally, they have trouble showing warmth to individuals. We feel their coldness, and think they don't get it. But, we all have gifts to share, not just the Sagittarians and Pisceans, with their broad smiles and gentle hugs.

Often you will find that some of the greatest teachers have the greatest difficulty following the teachings. They are the archetypal wounded healers. It is not that they know too little, but too much. Their purpose in this life is to interpret, so they are disposed by nature to interpret the teachings for others, rather than to follow perfectly the teachings themselves. They see others go on ahead of them, into the silence of self-purification, while they stay behind to minister.

There are many ways to serve,
many ways to fulfill that commandment,
"Love one another".

I agree, a fully formed person would be full of love, but he/she would have many other gifts as well. The rarest thing in the world is a complete human being, who possesses love AND an open mind AND the intellectual awareness to use those gifts where they may do the most good. If you find such a person, keep him or her in your heart of hearts, but don't dismiss others who have gifts to share, just because they don't have the one gift you had your heart set on. You may not learn from them how to be tactful, self-effacing, or gentle, but you may learn other things of equal worth.

What do you think?

Love to you,
Stephen

posted March 14, 2007 11:18 PM              

God has always taken the imperfect deeds of imperfect human beings and brought about great things through those works. Much good has been brought about in the world through the imperfect actions that were born in the hearts of very imperfect human beings.

It's only important that we make the attempt. However imperfect that attempt may be. God does the rest. It's sort of like a dance between humankind and God. God does not move until we take the first step and then he follows us step by step. Even the worse dancers can be Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire with God as the partner.

God knows the intentions of the heart and he is the hand inside the glove. We are only the glove. The glove can do nothing without the hand inside it.

Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.
- Martin Luther King Jr.

It is not what we do that is important, but how much love we put into what we do: we should do small things with great love.
- Mother Teresa

So long as the word remains in any way theoretical and is not incarnated by actions and translated into deeds, then it is not faith. It might be theology, not very good theology at that, but it is not faith. Faith is a combination of conviction and deeds, and it cannot be one without the other. Faith divorced from deeds is as lifeless as a corpse.
- Murphy Davis, in "Turning Dreams into Deeds," Sojourners, June 1985

Prophets are, by their nature, inconvenient party-poopers. It is a mistaken notion that prophets can see the future. Rather, they tell us what is true right now.
- Thomas Cahill, in Hey You, Listen Up! Sojourners, March-April 2003

Let no one be discouraged by the belief there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills, against misery and ignorance, injustice and violence. ... Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of our generation.
- Robert F. Kennedy

There is in most Americans some spark of idealism, which can be fanned into a flame. It takes sometimes a divining rod to find what it is; but when found, and that means often, when disclosed to the owners, the results are often extraordinary.

- Louis Brandeis

Keep walking, though there's no place to get to.

Don't try to see through the distances. That's not for human beings.

Move within, but don't move the way fear makes you move.

- Jelalludin Rumi

...[W]hatever we do counts. If we do not serve what coheres and endures, we serve what disintegrates and destroys.

posted March 14, 2007 11:37 PM            

Mirandee,
Hope you feel better. You have summed up everything so beautifully and I could not agree less.

Stephen,
I have nothing against you. I just wanted Moira not to feel initimated by your allegations and show to her that she is being heard. You may take your stand and I will respect it if you allow readers like me to take their own stand.

Moira,

I am looking forward to the July invite. I have been reading about the various posts you have posted. I also wish sometimes, that I had much time to myself for personal meditation. Perhaps the month of May may provide me that.

BTW, I had posted to Lialei a few days before your visit here about how we are really only One incarnation of God. It requires spiritual advancement to realize that according to my beliefs. I have much to learn, and your insights have added to my knowledge

All,
To avoid making this thread too political, I do not wish to post any more comments here.

Cheers,

Mannu

posted March 15, 2007 01:32 AM            

I don't feel heard. It's upsetting because I really thought you, of all people, would at least try to understand what I am saying. And I think what I am saying is so simple and true.

quote:

---

I think it doesn't matter whether those who are moved to do good for others and the world know metaphysical things or even if they know anything at all.

---

Think again. It does matter. Mother Teresa accomplished a lot of good, but she also led a lot of people to the Catholic Church (she's probably indirectly responsible for quite a few molestation cases). She also turned down families that wanted to adopt starving children, because they were not Catholic. Many people considered her a spiritual authority because of her sacrifices and love of the poor, and they asked her advice on many spiritual (i.e. metaphysical) matters. If she had insight into these matters, she would have been in a position to spread the truth to many people. Instead, she further convinced many people (by her charismatic goodness) that all non-Catholics will burn in Hell. Because she lacked intelligence and insight, despite her great love for humanity, she had no difficulty reconciling herself to the eternal torment of innocents.

quote:

---

I also think that any prayer, even if it is not based on the intellectual knowledge of things or even if it is based on no understanding at all is understood by God who does know all things.

---

Think again. The spiritual world obeys laws, just as the physical world does. It would be a great thing if what you suggest were true, but it is not. No matter how many gorgeous love letters you write, they will have no effect if you do not write them in the language of your lover, nor will they reach their destination unless you put the correct address on the envelope. You must speak affirmatively (God affirms), and you must speak in the present tense (that is where God is). Other prayers work only because these elements are occassionally put into them accidentally. They would work much better if these laws were strictly observed.

http://www.amazon.com/Sanctuary- Soul-Guide-Effective-Prayer/dp/0876121717/ref=sr_1_1/002-4250960-2388847?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173933788&sr=8-1

quote:

---

God has always taken the imperfect deeds of imperfect human beings and brought about great things through those works. Much good has been brought about in the world through the imperfect actions that were born in the hearts of very imperfect human beings.

---

I know. I just said this. This is what most of my last post was all about. I am imperfect, but I still have a lot to teach. You want to dismiss my insights as meaningless and insignificant, just because I am not always even tempered. But even moody people like me can produce great works. And even loving people like Mother Teresa can stand in the way of starving orphans getting homes and families. Just think - if God can accomplish such great things with ignorant people, imagine what He can do with someone who has some understanding of spiritual matters! Like Jesus.

quote:

---

It's only important that we make the attempt. However imperfect that attempt may be. God does the rest. It's sort of like a dance between humankind and God. God does not move until we take the first step and then he follows us step by step. Even the worse dancers can be Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire with God as the partner.

---

I agree that our intention is important, and that, even when we are doing something which causes others harm, if we do it with good intentions, it will bear good fruit. But it will also bear rotten fruit, and thorns and weeds will grow up alongside the fruit. Yes, God is graceful enough to turn many of our missteps into dips and spins, but He can do a lot more with us when we learn how to dance. God can be your dancing partner, or your dancing instructor. By all means, dance, but do not become complacent with your present level of skill, saying, "God will make up the rest,". Perhaps He will, but, if you learn the dance, the next thing you know, He might teach you how to fly.

quote:

---

God knows the intentions of the heart

---

Yes, but the Holy Spirit can only intervene when specific criterea are met, otherwise, we would all be having great sex in heaven right now. All of us intend to be joyful and peaceful, and practically none of us are. What does that tell you? It ought to tell you that, regardless of our intentions, we have a lot to learn about getting what we want.

quote:

---

he is the hand inside the glove. We are only the glove. The glove can do nothing without the hand inside it.

---

"You have said it, but you have not understood." Mirandee, it makes me so sad and disillusioned when I see this. These words express a profound metaphysical truth, but do you understand them? What do you think they mean? I'll give you a hint... They are not talking about free will.

As for the whole, "translated into actions" argument, I will only say what many teachers have said in the past: To say a thing well, is to perform a kind of deed. And to communicate profound truths clearly and concisely, is a work of great merit. The Bible is just a book, but it is a book containing within its pages the seeds of many great deeds. Perform a good deed, and it may be witnessed once. Write about a good deed, and may be witnessed thousands and thousands of times. The historical Passion, if it ever happened at all, happened just once, a long time ago. But, because it was written down, the whole world knows of it. It may not even have happened!, but, because the story was told, people everywhere are inspired by the example of the martyr, Jesus Christ, who they never saw perform a single deed.