posted March 15, 2007 05:10 AM            

I enjoyed the start of this thread, and generally feel the same about the Recorder, though I didn't care enough to contact her as HSC did. I don't have any problem with that interaction or HSC's desire to post it here as a service to those that might care.

I don't particularly believe in Moira, and I consider that to be an intuitive judgement based on both spiritual bragging and defending "the Recorder."

I feel that there is a certain bragging in HSC's work as well, but I find him an interesting read when I can sit through it (often it's a bit verbose and I really have to commit to reading in order to get it done). I also thought the posting of pictures was odd, and the defense equally odd. Why should there be an assumption that someone is interested in seeing you when that desire hasn't been expressed? It's difficult not to run into judgment in such a situation. I don't say these things to be mean. I only say it, so my perception may be taken into account.

There is a whole string of contradiction in this thread where HSC's arguments meet his philosophy on determinism (or whatever it's technically called). If we're all blameless and only able to do and be according to what we've been given to work with, then attempting to teach is a crap shoot at best. The intended student must have the means and desire to learn in order for any learning to take place. The passion towards bending a particular person's ear may be moot.

There's also contradiction with regard to what was said about Mother Theresa. She has to also fall under this blameless blanket, and only be considered for what she could do with her understanding regardless of what information may have existed at the time (that she missed and didn't understand).

posted March 15, 2007 06:31 AM            

If you could see what I am writing from my perspective, you would see how layered and poignant it is. There is a lot of word-play which only makes sense when you grasp the over-all idea of connectedness. I realize, of course, my job as writer is to communicate that to you. But its f*cking hard. I am not verbose, I dont waste words, I am very precise and linear, but you may not always see what I am trying to convey with a particular string of words or sentences. I know I've got this boasting thing to deal with. I go back and forth over it. I want to be humble, but I honestly believe that I see a lot more than most people on this site, if not all of them. I'm sorry, I know how that sounds. But I feel compelled to be honest about that. Yes, I posted my pictures, partly for the reasons I gave (I never assumed that she wanted to see my picture, but, then, it is in my nature to give more than I am asked for), and partly because I think that a discriminating person might be able to tell just from the look of me that I probably do have something intelligent, important, and different to say. Is it vanity? Not entirely. I posted four pictures of Schopenhauer along with a quote of his in FFA the other day, for the same reason.

I swear to you that I am not contradicting my arguments. It is an extremely subtle issue, though, and our entire language is framed to support the premise of free will. Do you see? Language itself conspires against me, lol. I never blamed Mother Theresa. I dont know how you reached that conclusion. She thought she was doing the right thing. She was ignorant and misguided. I don't blame her.

Please, if you see what looks to you like a contradiction, point it out, and I will explain my meaning to you. I have full confidence in my ability to do that. But do not assume that I am in contradiction. I am alternately speaking of God and man from the subjective and objective points of view, and I realize that can appear contradictory, but it isn't. Speaking of men's wills and choices and responsibilities is not contradictory, but they must be understood within the context of the higher will. It is hard for me to say everything at once. When I indicate a part, you say I have contradicted my vision of the whole, but it is only because you forget that I am seeing the part as a part.

Attempting to teach is a crap shoot, yes, but you must understand that, just because we are born with certain predilections does not mean that the objects and people we meet with in life cannot redirect our course. The means and the desire to learn may, to some extent, be triggered, although there must be a spark of life, and more than two brain cells to rub together. Just because someone is not consciously open to a teaching, doesnt mean you can't make them rethink their position with a well made point. And I think, if I am speaking to these people, and they are reading my words, then, on some subtle level, they are open to my teaching. But I'm not sure.

hsc

posted March 15, 2007 08:22 AM              

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moiraHISbeloved ~
Knowflake Extraordinaire _()_

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quote:

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Matthew Chapter 6
1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

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posted March 15, 2007 01:03 PM            

I'm guessing that since you [HSC] enjoy "The Secret" so much that perhaps you consider it's affirmations as proper prayer. I don't know that that is materially any different from any other way a person chooses to pray. The idea behind The Secret is that whatever you concentrate on most will manifest, so people could clumsily pray however they chose, and as long as they keep the end goal on their own heart and mind then I would say that they're essentially doing the same thing as those who are praying in the affirmative and in the present tense.

Regardless, though, everything happens in it's own time, so you could affirm something for eternity, and if it's not supposed to happen it won't. It could also just take longer than one would expect like in the case of having Jupiter in Capricorn or something.

________________________________________________________________________________________

posted March 15, 2007 02:39 PM            

What is the "seeming contradiction"? If someone doesn't know the laws they are screwed. They are screwed and they are innocent. Where is the contradiction. The laws are amoral. You speed, you get a ticket, even if you didnt know the speed linit. No contradiction there. You make mistakes until you get it right.

I don't enjoy "The Secret" that much, AG. I agree with basically everything fayte said about the packaging. I was turned-off by a lot of it. But I believe the message is legitimate. It makes no difference to me whether it is old or new, and I can overlook the flashy presentation, to appreciate the fundamental truths being expressed.

To quote James Ray (who appeared in The Secret):

"We know that the unconscious mind cannot distinguish between something that is "real" in material form and something that is vividly imagined. Because your mind thinks in pictures, you must create a mental picture of yourself living your new life mindset.

"Remember, thoughts are powerful and the unconscious mind is their obedient servant. Like the Genie in Aladdin's lamp, the unconscious mind says, "Your wish is my command." It begins to create whatever you think about... or worry about.

"Don't confuse it by staying on track one day and lapsing into doubt or negativity the next. Give the Genie clear instructions, and you will soon be living your new mindset. To shape your future, you have to be ready and able to shape your mindset."

AG, if you focus on the things you don't want, when you pray, you manifest the things you don't want. Yes, its been said before, but it seems it needs to be said again. This is not how the majority of people pray, AG. The majority of people cry through their tears (infusing their vision with a negative charge), "Lord, please, don't let this or that happen. Fix this or that, please," with the result that the unwanted things manifest, and things continue to need fixing. The way to get what you want would be to say, "Lord, thank you for fixing this! You make me so happy!"

"Believe that you already have it,
and it shall be yours."
- Jesus Christ (on how to pray)

Again, nothing new, but something that has yet to penetrate mainstream consciousness, and even people who say, "Oh, we've heard that one before," don't put it to use in order to manifest their higher selves.

posted March 15, 2007 03:04 PM            

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The idea behind The Secret is that whatever you concentrate on most will manifest, so people could clumsily pray however they chose, and as long as they keep the end goal on their own heart and mind then I would say that they're essentially doing the same thing as those who are praying in the affirmative and in the present tense.

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That was my point. I agree with Mirandee that it doesn't matter how a person prays even if such laws as you put forward exist, because as I said if the end goal is on the person's mind and heart, then according to those laws of attraction they should still get results.

posted March 15, 2007 03:10 PM            

If I set myself on a height, "for to be seen of men", it is not (or not merely) to satisfy my vanity or lust for power. We all have those impure motives. I am aware of them in myself. But I am aware of the higher motives too, and I have faith that my light will shine through.

"Do doo doo doo, Da da da da,
the innocence will pull me through."
- the police

I don't think Jesus wants me to go into my closet and shut the door, or to hide my light under a bushel. The important thing is for me to remember the teaching, that it is not I who says or does anything. Keeping this in mind, my left hand can continue to do the work without my right hand knowing what it is doing. In a very spiritual sense, "I" (my ego) may then be in the closet, while "my" words are yet on display.

Jesus did not preach the Gospel to himself from inside a closet. When he found the truth, he walked up to the top of the Mount of Olives, and said, "I am the first fruits of the Father." In other words, "I found my center first," but, with the essential stipulation that, "I can do nothing of myself. As the Father thinketh, I speaketh,". His story illustrates very clearly what happens when a person claims to have received a revelation. Everybody accuses that person of assuming authority for the sole purpose of serving him or herself. So be it.

But the truth is, it is not Christ, but the world, who focuses on the messenger, rather than the message. I have spoken the truth. It is the same truth taught by Christ. Please, try to overlook the minor flaws you see in this vessel (me), just long enough to see what is being poured out for you. I will take your advice to heart, and I will try harder now to erradicate the arrogance I have shown. In the meantime, I would call to mind the words of the anonymous author of the recent spiritual classic: "Meditations On The Tarot: A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism"... "Arrogance is the greatest temptation on the spiritual path". Its true, I am overcome by that temptation from time to time, but it is only because I am indeed on the spiritual path. Sure, I could get off the path, and go into my closet, and repeat to myself, "I know nothing, I know nothing," and never face that temptation again, but I think that would only be a denial of the revelation given to me, and another form of arrogance, the result of which would be the answer to my prayers; I would end up knowing nothing.

Do you think I enjoy being misunderstood and considered arrogant and self-righteous? Do you think I enjoy putting so much time and effort into communicating His message, only to be told that I must be a self-serving scoundrel, denying personal responsibility when I preach the doctrine of the One Will? I don't. I would much rather stay home, in my closet. But every closet I retreat to becomes the belly of a whale. And, in the end, I am spit out upon the land. God demands that I preach this message, just as He demanded it of Jonah. Was it Jonah's humility which caused him to shrink from the limelight of public scrutiny? Or was it his laziness, and lack of faith in God's ability to make use of even an imperfect vessel? I leave the matter for you to consider. But I have made my choice, or, rather, God has made it for me.

posted March 15, 2007 03:23 PM            

I still don't understand what you are saying. You said, to paraphrase, "If a person keeps the end result which they desire in mind, it will manifest," right? Well, this is precisely what I have called "right prayer". So, yes, we are in agreement. To hold in the mind the fruit of your desire is to pray affirmatively, and in the present moment, as I have said we ought to pray. I don't see the contradiction. All I am saying is, when you pray, "Lord, don't let this bad thing happen," your prayer will not be answered, or, rather, it will be answered with even more fear of the thing you are afraid of (and probably the realization of your fears, if that is what is on your mind), for that is the substance of what you are putting out, and what is being reflected by the Universal Unconscious Mind (God).

There are different reason why people say, "It was not meant to happen," or, "It will happen when it is destined". First of all, they do not realize that their prayers are ineffectively composed, so they seek some excuse as to why their prayers were not answered in the way they desired them to be answered. The truth is, it will happen when you learn to pray correctly, for that is when it is meant to happen. It cannot happen before that. It must happen in God's time, not our own. At that fated moment, when you realize that God's time is in the present, then, and only then, the time will have come.

posted March 15, 2007 03:30 PM            

quote:

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"Believe that you already have it,
and it shall be yours."
- Jesus Christ (on how to pray)
That's a great quote, Stephen. You know, when I usually pray,the tone is worrisome indeed. I'll try it another way, and see what happens.

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You just made my week.
And my point.

Thank you.

posted March 15, 2007 03:48 PM            

"To those who have much, more shall be given,
but to those who have little,
even the little they have shall be taken from them."
- Jesus Christ

Imagine that you have much.
Consider yourself wealthy in all ways.
See what you have, not what you lack.
Give thanks for your abundance,
and it shall increase.
If you imagine yourself wanting,
you shall only increase your want.

I didnt make these rules.
But I will live by them,
or die by them,
like everybody else.

God is no respecter of persons.
God does not play favorites.
Whosoever asks, receives.
Learn the language of the unconscious;
Know what it is you are asking for.

What is on your mind?
Do you want it to manifest?
That which you place on the altar of your mind
will be manifested by God.
Guard carefully your thoughts,
and let your offerings to God be things of beauty.

hsc

posted March 15, 2007 04:15 PM            

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

posted March 15, 2007 04:42 PM              

quote:

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Diogenes of Sinope
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diogenes by John William Waterhouse, depicting his lamp, tub and diet of onions.

Diogenes (Greek: Διογένης της Σινώπης "the Cynic", Greek philosopher, was born in Sinope (in modern day Sinop, Turkey) about 412 BC (according to other sources 399 BC), and died in 323 BC at Corinth. Details of his life come in the form of anecdotes ("chreia") from Diogenes Laėrtius, in his book The Lives of Eminent Philosophers.

Diogenes of Sinope is said to have been a disciple of Antisthenes, a cynic about whom Plato says in Phaedo was present at the death of Socrates. Diogenes, a beggar who made his home in the streets of Athens, made a virtue of extreme poverty. He taught contempt for human achievements and a return to animalism. His was a relentless campaign to "debunk" social values and institutions.

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posted March 15, 2007 04:44 PM            

Christ's Chief Apostle, Paul, says of himself,
"I speak with tongues more than ye all."

Any who would accuse me of arrogance
must accuse Paul of arrogance as well,
for I have said nothing he has not said.
If I believe that what I teach is true,
then my claim to authority is not arrogant.
It is decisive.

My trumpet will not give an uncertain sound.

posted March 15, 2007 05:18 PM              

You already know my feelings and opinions on certain Biblical figures.
I am not desiring a discussion nor an argument but merely restating my opinions...
Moses was a liar who killed after being told not to....
Paul warped much of the truth to suit his own agendas....and was indeed arrogant.
I have absolutely no respect for either character.
That is my opinion and my right to have such.

posted March 15, 2007 06:25 PM            

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Someday I would like to hear you speak as you, not as others have spoken.

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posted March 15, 2007 08:56 PM            

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If the people of the village won't receive your message when you enter it, shake off its dust from your feet as you leave. It is a sign that you have abandoned that village to its fate."

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Luke 9:5(NLT)