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Author
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Topic: "You can't have joy without pain"
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ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 2149
From: the capricious clouds, in the land formerly known as Albion
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 08, 2007 02:43 PM
 
quote:
"In every colour, there's the light. In every stone sleeps a crystal".
quote:
yes well get yourself a hammer and you can smash that stone to bits and, God willing, find out what's inside. 
 IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3582
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 08, 2007 07:52 PM
 Now see, there you go with the authority thing again. Why do you feel like you're being talked down too? I don't think myself a teacher, zanya - I haven't even remotely achieved that station. I've seen a few wander through LL who might claim that distinction. I've watched them be ignored or laughed off. *shrugs* c'est le vie. I might be willing to exchange stories of the road, if anyone is interested in sharing, but I'm certainly not here to "instruct". Hey, you know what? Honestly, I'm just here for a Doctor ordered naf check-up.  I suck at cryptic mysticism too btw. And I don't think anyone here thinks you're rabble. Why assume the worst and be so hard on yourself? LTT - Step off the ride?? From what I've heard (and I'm no expert), death and ascension are two very different things. Any piece of rabble can acomplish the former, but the latter takes some work. IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 08, 2007 11:26 PM
ah yes there's this thing about the repugnance of dirt, among some of the holier ones, isn't there? therein lies the confusion. you see, i love dirt; earth is sacred; the body divine. and God's heart? it's composed of rabble. and i am prostrate, upon the earth, before Her, one with earth, one with the rabble. not one who dwells in the rarer mist of the loftier planes. i leave that to the careful readers...the trained and the studied among you, and wish you all the happiness and sacrosanct credentials that the best of gurus may bestow upon your deserving and elevated heads.
every creature has a religion. every
foot is a shrine where
a secret candle
burns.
every cell in us worships
God. every arrow in the bow of desire
has rushed out in hope
of nearing
Him. Thomas Aquinas IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 08, 2007 11:46 PM
and sometimes, not often, i am reminded, with the light that fills me, that my love is not in vain, when i have a peaceful moment with the love-vibe of one such as Hafiz, who reminds me of the divine and cosmic rhythm in all...all we who walk together in the rhythm of the universe ~
you have
not danced so badly, my dear,
trying to hold hands with the Beautiful One.
you have waltzed with great style, my sweet, crushed angel,
to have ever neared God's heart at all. our Partner is notoriously difficult to follow, and even His
best musicians are not always easy to hear. so what if the music has stopped for a while.
so what if the price of admission to the Divine is out of reach tonight. so what, my sweetheart, if you lack the ante to gamble for real love. the mind and body are famous for holding the heart ransome,
but Hafiz knows the Beloved's eternal habits. have patience,
for He will not be able to resist your longings
and charms for long. you have not danced so badly, my dear,
trying to kiss the Magnificent
One. you have actually waltzed with tremendous style,
my sweet, O my sweet,
crushed
angel.  IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 2149
From: the capricious clouds, in the land formerly known as Albion
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 09, 2007 03:39 AM
I'm moved.  IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3582
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 09, 2007 08:17 PM
"... of all affliction taught a lover yet
Tis sure the hardest science
to forget
Unequal task, a passion to resign
for hearts so touched
so pierced
so lost
as mineEre such a soul regain its peaceful state
How often hope
despair .. resent ..
regret .. conceal .. disdain?
do all things
but forget ..." Alexander Pope Come, come, whoever you are.
Wanderer, worshipper, lover of leaving — it doesn't matter,
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come, even if you have broken your vow a hundred times,
Come, come again, come.  Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi I wish you all good things, zanya ... fellow pilgrim, sister 
tink IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 09, 2007 08:31 PM
oh my, the distinguished Pope. Fairest of Mortals, thou distinguish'd Care
Of thousand bright Inhabitants of Air!
If e'er one Vision touch'd thy infant Thought,
Of all the Nurse and all the Priest have taught,
Of airy Elves by Moonlight Shadows seen,
The silver Token, and the Circled Green,
Or Virgins visited by Angel-powers
With Golden Crowns and Wreaths of heav'nly Flow'rs;
Hear and believe! thy own Importance know,
Nor bound thy narrow Views to things below.
Some secret Truths, from Learned Pride conceal'd,
To Maids alone and Children are reveal'd:
What tho' no Credit doubting Wits may give?
The Fair and Innocent shall still believe.
Know then, unnumber'd Spirits round thee fly,
The light Militia of the lower sky:
These, tho' unseen, are ever on the Wing,
Hang o'er the Box, and hover round the Ring. witty guy, him.....he might have been mocking me. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Knowflake Posts: 6567
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted November 10, 2007 02:49 PM
zanya,
Every human being is entitled to teaching and/or knowledge.But the person must ASK. You have NOT ask so it is correct to say no Teaching/Instruction has occured. That would be a breach of adab.
What I have shared is my beliefs and understandings thru experience,study and works of the Holy Texts. Reject it or take something of value from the exchanges.
I take value in learning thru these exchanges, it helps me to see my nafs and where Work is required. So each exchange with you and others are a Blessing to me. As always, I appreciate the time you spend sharing with me .
At the end of the day all we have is Faith in ourselves and our Creator. We are One from the same Essence. You may see apples where I see oranges but thats not a negative thing at all It helps us to stretch and realize our Potential. I know I have a lot more stretching to do and will keep reaching upward.  ------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 2149
From: the capricious clouds, in the land formerly known as Albion
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 10, 2007 03:42 PM
quote:
Every human being is entitled to teaching and/or knowledge.But the person must ASK.
Seek and ye shall find. Knock and the door will open. IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 04:02 PM
quote:
What I have shared is my beliefs and understandings thru experience,study and works of the Holy Texts. Reject it or take something of value from the exchanges.
thank you Juniper, for this bit of instruction. as per your instruction, i shall reject or take, and attempt to do nothing further outside those boundaries. it does occur to me however, to wonder from whence or from whom the Work is required. i wasn't given that option though, so i shall endeavor not to point my efforts in that direction. i wish you well in your upwards stretching endeavors. i don't mind Gaia however. the ground under my feet is sacred and a source of joy for me. i am thankful for the blessing of earth energy. thanks and be blessed. IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3582
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 10, 2007 04:13 PM
quote:
i wish you well in your upwards stretching endeavors. i don't mind Gaia however. the ground under my feet is sacred and a source of joy for me. i am thankful for the blessing of earth energy.
I don't know what this means. Would you be willing to help me out? IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 04:42 PM
i would Tink, but i'm not very qualified actually. and really, this seems more a battle of who's right and who's wrong, as do some of the other threads attempting to hold forth discussions on the nature of god and religion. i'd rather not involve myself in such duelling, though admittedly my insolence does often get the better of me.  then my hand must be slapped...but i'll do my best to be someday enlightened -- i promise. **p.s. please know however, that i very much appreciate your asking for my thoughts on this subject. IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 2149
From: the capricious clouds, in the land formerly known as Albion
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 10, 2007 05:00 PM
Zanya IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3582
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 10, 2007 05:44 PM
I'm not looking for a duel. Honestly. I'm genuinely interested. Do you mean the earth literally? I'm guessing not but not sure. Hope you change your mind. Who could be more qualified? IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 05:58 PM
Meili? her gentle wisdom seemed filled with all sorts of knowledge.IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3582
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 10, 2007 06:02 PM
Is that the insolence again?  Seriously, who would be more qualified to explain what you said than you? You've mentioned a love of earth twice now, I think. I'm trying to get your perspective. IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 06:09 PM
no it wasn't. i always enjoyed her thoughts. i was sorry she left.IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3582
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 10, 2007 06:23 PM
Like Juni says, wise thoughts are always there for the asking.IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 06:24 PM
this earth, this planet is divine. i think it's called Gaia theory or something like that. we are part of this earth, our lives and bodies are part of her network, as she is part of the universe. as this earth is a temple that nurtures us, so are our bodies temples that nurture our spirits. potent and sacred energies flow through earth that we can access through contact with her, through alignment with her rhythm and nature.i am of the earth...and i love the earth. our bodies are more than temporal. as LG discussed in her work, earth can and will become another eden-heaven. i hope that is adequate. IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 06:34 PM
quote:
Like Juni says, wise thoughts are always there for the asking.
yes of course. Shizuka was kind enough to provide me her email and offer to answer any questions of them i might ever have. and hers was an insolence that i often enjoyed, though a little intense at times. IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 06:53 PM
as is below, so is above; as is above, so below.  IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3582
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 10, 2007 08:34 PM
"Heaven is under our feet as well as over our heads" The Gaia theory. I've come across it before. I like it. The idea that the earth is akin to our physical body and as such enlivened by a spirit, and that spirit by definition is divine, makes sense to me. Juni is much more knowledgable about the ways of Nature than me, though. I'm just becoming acquainted with Her.
" ... hers was an insolence that i often enjoyed, though a little intense at times."
Yes, shizuka excels at playing the part of Loki when the need arises. I've found myself at the receiving end once or twice. It's like an unexpected bucket of ice water in the face. Wakes you up real quick. I recall though that you heard a different voice. "yes of course. Shizuka was kind enough to provide me her email and offer to answer any questions of them i might ever have." Then I suppose the ball is in your court.
IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 08:51 PM
what ball? and i don't have a court. nor i did i mention having a question, did i?Shizuka was particularly refreshing, and unusual, in that she was wont to lob insults, not something i generally enjoy, but at least her insults were direct and upfront, rather than hidden in veiled language or anonymous commentary. i suppose i find that more honest and kind in a way. IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 5444
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted November 10, 2007 09:02 PM
Often our approach is less direct,
because our thoughts, feelings, and perceptions
are just more nuanced than usual.Its not about hiding anything.
Its about saying everything that pertains,
without omission, or undue emphasis.
Thats not an easy thing to do. Often, multiple meanings are suggested,
not for the sake of concealing any one of them,
but, for the sake of suggesting their mutual validity,
or just offering a variety of views
and letting the reader to decide
for themselves what description they resonate with.
IP: Logged |
zanya
Knowflake Posts: 128
From:
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted November 10, 2007 09:21 PM
perhaps the reason then, that i don't have a court?...nor am i interested in the location of the ball. i'm not good at the cryptic insults game... i don't see the merit in it. but then, i'm not enlightened either. maybe one day though i'll be able to insult cryptically with seamless savoir faire, once i receive the hallowed mantle of enlightenment. although, with sun, moon and saturn in aries, that might have to be another lifetime. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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