posted October 26, 2007 11:51 PM              

quote:

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What parts of the 2 links you provided do you believe supports the theory Jesus went to India and the Holy Quran and Holy Bible contradict each other?

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quote:

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Will you share your interpretation of the 2 links in connection to your provision of support for the theories?

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posted October 27, 2007 05:10 AM              

1) The angry/ vengeful God people call Jehovah, etc, was in fact a malevolent extra-terrestrial group intent on using and manipulating the human race.

2) There is compelling evidence that the story of Jesus was adapted to fit in with other myths, the incredible parallels of which have been highlighted in the "Zeitgeist" move. However, there are other facts and possibilities about Jesus not mentioned in this movie. One is the Dead Sea Scrolls. Another I have thought of is that the astrology side of the story of Christ highlighted in the Zeitgeist movie may in fact reflect the actual birth and rebirth of a real being......"As Above, So Below".

3) The founders Roman Catholic Church and other religions added their fire and brimstone to the equasion for the purpose of fear and mind control and to stop people reaching their full spiritual potential.

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality."

-Micheal Ellner

"The Truth will set you Free".

posted October 27, 2007 10:10 AM              

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries.......(no borders)
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions......(see below..all sharing)
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

The story of the fishes and feeding the multitude.

Feeding of the 5000 and 4000:

There are two episodes in the Gospels of multiplication of bread and fishes:
1- Feeding the 5,000, Matthew 14:1-21; Mark 6:35-44; Luke 9:12-17; John 6:5-15...
2- Feeding the 4,000, Matthew 15:29-39; Mark 8:1-9
Some liberal Christians of the high critic may not believe Jesus actually fed 5,000 or 4000 people using only five loaves and two fishes but that the boy who brought these to Jesus set an example which the crowds followed (i.e. they all shared their food).

But the Bible story is very different, and 6 times!, and it is the only account in history we have of the events.

1- 10Jesus said, "Have the people sit down." There was plenty of grass in that place, and the men sat down, about five thousand of them. 11Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish. 12When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, "Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted." 13So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten. 14After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world." 15Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself. (Jn.6:10-15).

2- The Bible proclaims it as a miracle, 4After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world. (Jn.6:4).

3- Jesus is very careful to ask to gather the left of the five barley loaves, and here, 3So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten. There were five barley loaves, not any other shared food!

The gospels mention 5000and 4000 men, and, of course, if you count women and children the multitude fed should have been over 10,000 or 15,000.

The miracle stories of Jesus are literary creations, plagiarised from the miracle stories in the Greek translation of the Old Testament.
In 2 Kings 4:42-44, Elisha has a great many people to feed with only a few loaves of barley bread and a little other food. He delegates the task of feeding. There is a complaint that the quantity is too small. The feeding continues and everyone is fed. There is surplus bread left over. This older story from Kings has exactly the same plot as the feeding of the 5,000 - only the numbers are different.

More plagiarism of the Old Testament miracle stories can also be found in other stories about Jesus.

posted October 27, 2007 10:58 AM              

quote:

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Rethinking the Bible:

1) The angry/ vengeful God people call Jehovah, etc, was in fact a malevolent extra-terrestrial group intent on using and manipulating the human race.

---

quote:

---

2) There is compelling evidence that the story of Jesus was adapted to fit in with other myths, the incredible parallels of which have been highlighted in the "Zeitgeist" move. However, there are other facts and possibilities about Jesus not mentioned in this movie. One is the Dead Sea Scrolls. Another I have thought of is that the astrology side of the story of Christ highlighted in the Zeitgeist movie may in fact reflect the actual birth and rebirth of a real being......"As Above, So Below".

---

quote:

---

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - )

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quote:

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3) The founders Roman Catholic Church and other religions added their fire and brimstone to the equasion for the purpose of fear and mind control and to stop people reaching their full spiritual potential.

---

quote:

---

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards. Everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information, and religion destroys spirituality."

-Micheal Ellner

"The Truth will set you Free".

---

Finding the truth is difficult because to find the truth one must be willing to at least for awhile, to let go all they think they know or been taught/told, and to start over, as many times as possible until it finally rings true. Truth may not be what one hopes or wants it to be. But it is truth.

posted October 27, 2007 11:06 AM              

quote:

---

GIVE ME
THAT OLD TIME RELIGION

Give me that old time religion
Tis the old time religion,
Tis the old time religion,
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for our mothers.
It was good for our mothers.
It was good for our mothers.
And it's good enough for me.

Give me that old time religion
Tis the old time religion,
Tis the old time religion,
And it's good enough for me.

Makes me love everybody.
Makes me love everybody.
Makes me love everybody.
And it's good enough for me.

Give me that old time religion
Tis the old time religion,
Tis the old time religion,
And it's good enough for me.

It has saved our fathers.
It has saved our fathers.
It has saved our fathers.
And it's good enough for me.

Give me that old time religion
Tis the old time religion,
Tis the old time religion,
And it's good enough for me.

It will do when I am dying.
It will do when I am dying.
It will do when I am dying.
And it's good enough for me.

Give me that old time religion
Tis the old time religion,
Tis the old time religion,
And it's good enough for me.

It will take us all to heaven.
It will take us all to heaven.
It will take us all to heaven.
And it's good enough for me.

Give me that old time religion
Tis the old time religion,
Tis the old time religion,
And it's good enough for me.

---

Words & Music: Anonymous

Again I will say:

quote:

---

"The Truth will set you Free".

Indeed!

Finding the truth is difficult because to find the truth one must be willing to at least for awhile, to let go all they think they know or been taught/told, and to start over, as many times as possible until it finally rings true. Truth may not be what one hopes or wants it to be. But it is truth.

---

posted October 27, 2007 01:01 PM            

Its all in the ethers or Akasha records.

Someday I have to read the books of Mormons also as its said Jesus visited the Americas too.

He wasn't the poor guy depicted in the bible. His father was a carpenter. A highly paid profession during those times.

He isn't the skinny guy either depicted in various churches[oops - corrected bible]. Check out this picture of Jesus in the book of Mormons. Perhaps silverstone can confirm if thats the right pic. But even that seems average shaped Jesus.

This ones indescribable , i thought i will list it here.

posted October 27, 2007 01:24 PM              

quote:

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fayte.m.
love that poster, can u get any funnier ?

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quote:

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has anyone read " Jesus lived in India"
i havn't been there but the tomb theory in the book has physical proof. someone should go and examine the tombs.

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quote:

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also someone should read "blue blood, true blood " i buy every single word about christ from that book, it will shoch the lighth out of u

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posted October 27, 2007 01:34 PM              

quote:

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Jesus did travel to India before and after resurrection.

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quote:

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Someday I have to read the books of Mormons also as its said Jesus visited the Americas too.

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quote:

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He wasn't the poor guy depicted in the bible. His father was a carpenter. A highly paid profession during those times.

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quote:

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He isn't the skinny guy either depicted in the bible.

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posted October 27, 2007 01:43 PM              

New Light on Sepphoris and the Urban World of Jesus

by Richard A. Batey

Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1991

Continuing archaeological excavations at Sepphoris are yielding evidence of a sophisticated urban culture that places Jesus in a radically different environment that challenges traditional assumptions about his life and ministry. The popular picture of Jesus growing up in the relative isolation of a small village of four hundred people in the remote hills of Galilee must be integrated with the newly revealed setting of a burgeoning Greco-Roman metropolis boasting upwards of thirty thousand inhabitants - Jews, Arabs, Greeks and Romans - powerful, prosperous, peace-loving - was linked with other Greco-Roman centers on the trade routes of the Greek speaking east. During the 1980s a series of archaeological digs took place at Sepphoris. Found were thousands of pieces of datable pottery, a dozen colors of imported marble, fragments of bright frescoes, artistically molded plaster, smooth, round, limestone columns, ornately cut capitals, hundreds of coins, scores of whole ceramic vessels, beautiful mosaics, bronze figures, gold chain, carved ivory, and other artifacts all demonstrating that Sepphoris, in the early and middle Roman periods, was indeed a thriving metropolis.

Following Herod's death, there are uprisings in Galilee - Sepphoris is the center. Judas, son of Hezekias, attacks Herod's arsenal so he may arm himself. The Romans, under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attack and burn the city. In the spring of 3 BC, when Antipas returned from Rome where his father's will was ratified by Augustus, he chose this site for his capital city for ruling over Galilee. It is just 4 miles north of Nazareth, described by Josephus as the largest and most beautiful city in this region.

While Jesus grows up in Nazareth, Sepphoris is being constructed, becoming a city with 30,000 inhabitants, sophisticated, cosmopolitan, Jewish, Roman, Greek and Arab. Just ten minutes (walking) north of Nazareth brings one to the top of a ridge overlooking the Bet Netofa Valley. The hill of Sepphoris may be seen 3 miles north, rising four hundred feet from the valley floor. ("A city set on a hill cannot be hid." Matthew 5:14) "Carpenter" meant more than "worker in wood", but also referred to one who worked in the building trades in general. Perhaps Joseph, and Jesus were involved in construction projects in Sepphoris.

No visits to Sepphoris are recorded, but Jesus did travel throughout all the cities and towns of Galilee, as well as to Caesarea Philippi and Decapolis. It would be hard to believe that He would not have taken the one hour walk from His home town to the capital city.

A theater at Sepphoris was discovered by Leroy Waterman in 1931. It's construction was dated at or before the time of Antipas, or during the time Jesus was a young man in Nazareth, four miles away. Of course where also was a lavish theater in Jerusalem built by Herod the Great prior to 28 B.C. There were also theaters built in Jericho and Samaria (renamed Sebaste) as well as in Caesarea Maritima and Sidon. Jesus traveled throughout these areas as well as the Decapolis, Greek speaking cities where theaters also would have been featured. However, of all these, Sepphoris would have been the closest. Chiseled into bedrock, this theater could seat 4,000, and the acoustics at the excavated site remain very good to this day.

No doubt Jesus was familiar with the theater. He often alludes to the role playing motif in his tirades against hypocrisy, "Hypocrites" primarily meaning "stage actor". In Jesus' understanding, this refers to those whose outward display of religiosity is not matched by a genuine commitment to the rule of God, or the "Kingdom of God." So He chides them because they are concerned about the outward appearances, they wash the outside of the cup but on the inside is extortion and greed. They are described as whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the exterior, but filled with death and decay. And He quotes Isaiah when He complains that while they honor God with their lips, "their heart is far from me." (Mark 7:1-8; Isaiah 29:13)

When Jesus made allusions to "king", and "kingdom", He no doubt was doing that from a frame of reference learned at Sepphoris. For example when talking about John the Baptist, He asks if they expected to see a man clothed in "soft raiment". Then He said, "Behold, those who are gorgeously appareled and live in luxury are in kings' courts" (Luke 7:25). In addition to locations such as Jericho and Jerusalem, the Herodian family built royal palaces at both Sepphoris and Tiberias. "One of Jesus' followers was Joanna, the wife of Antipas' finance minister, Chuza. She followed Jesus about Galilee along with several other women, who together underwrote the expenses of his itinerant ministry (Luke 8:3). Joanna could easily have informed Jesus of the splendid style in which Antipas and his court officials lived. The excesses and extravagances of the royal family stood in sharp contrast to the conditions of the poor peasants dwelling on the land." (120)

The parable of the unforgiving servant (Matthew 18) has as its setting a "king's accounting office in a great banking center, like the city of Sepphoris." (122) There's also the parable about the king who receives a kingdom and returns to execute his opponents (Luke 19), and the one about the ten servants with whom are entrusted a pound each (Luke 19, Matthew 25). "The image of a sovereign king and the mention of a bank paying interest suggest a cultural milieu similar to the capital at Sepphoris of Tiberias." (125,126)

Another parable tells the story of a royal wedding feast (Matthew 22). Great anger is displayed toward those who at first reject the invitation, and revenge is taken by the sending of an army to annihilate - a possible reference to the destruction of Sepphoris in 4 B.C., an event well remembered by the residents of Galilee in Jesus' day.

When Jesus emphasizes the need to count the cost of discipleship, He refers to a king deciding to wage a military campaign. Certainly Antipas, who ruled Galilee during the life of Christ, was preoccupied with matters military.

Jesus contrasted the leadership style of His disciples to that of the "kings of the Gentiles" who "exercise lordship" (Luke 22:25). Jesus is obviously aware of "kings and political rulers" whose authority often led to cruel and abusive use of power. These kings frequently assumed the title 'benefactor' - especially in Syria and Egypt - as a claim of good deeds performed for the state." (131) But for Jesus, the true 'benefactor' is the one who ministers to human needs.

A king is also the main character in the parable of the end time judgement when sentences are pronounced on the good and evil depicted as sheep and goats (Matthew 25). This and other references to kings and kingdoms ". . . suggest that his (Jesus') cultural horizons are far wider than those of a remote Galilean village. The image of king points consistently to the concept of the king's sovereignty over his subjects. He determines their economic fortunes, freedom and slavery, and life and death. The king's judgements at times are harsh and exacting and at others tempered with mercy but his authority is never successfully challenged. Such an understanding of kingship may well reflect an awareness of Antipas' rule from Sepphoris and Tiberias. Antipas' appointment as king, or tetrarch, came directly from Rome and he represented the vast power of the empire in his territories. Jesus skillfully employs the figure of the king as an unquestioned authority to point toward God's sovereignty over creation and to challenge his disciples with the seriousness of life in the dawning kingdom of God." (134)

According to Josephus (Life 235), Sepphoris had a population of between 25-30,000: he called it "the ornament of all Galilee". In Galilee there were 204 cities and villages; there was a population of 200,000 for the entire region during the time of Jesus.

As a carpenter, Jesus may have worked building boats like the one found on the western shore of Galilee in 1986. Its construction was dated to be 40 B.C. (+/-80 yrs) and it was 26.5 X 7.5 ft with a sail and rudder; there was a one sail mast.

While Jesus based many of his lessons on familiar rural objects such as seed planting, grain and harvesting, vineyards and setfreeding (sower, day laborers, Mt. 20:1-16, the ninety and nine - Luke 15:7), He also spoke of the lifestyle of the rich (Luke 16:19-21). There were many wealthy land owners (more barns needed - Luke 12), some rented their lands to the farmers (Luke 20:9-18) expecting a good profit. (The family of the prodigal may have been another example, as well as the banquet instructions (Luke 14). Jesus' teaching draws a contrast between seeking the wealth of the privileged within Antipas' kingdom, to the giving to those in need in order to be a subject in His own kingdom. Jesus speaks of the wealthy in other stories such as the rich nobleman (Luke 11:21, Matt. 12:29; Mark 3:37), the householder who brings from his treasure house valuables (Matt. 13:52), and the one who, had he known when the thief was coming would have stayed home to protect his belongings (Matt. 24:43; Luke 12:39). Jesus counsels not to "lay up treasures..."(Matt. 6:19-21). The contrast between rich and poor is especially in view in the "Sermon on the Plain" recorded by Luke (6:22-26). Levi, the tax collector turned disciple is an example of a wealthy official within Antipas' regime (Luke 5:27-28; Matt. 10:3). We also remember that Chuza was Antipas' treasurer, and the husband of one of Jesus' supporters.

Sepphoris was located on major trade routes: from Damascus to Ptolemais or Caesarea Maritima on to Egypt. A branch of this route, just south of Sepphoris, ran south through Samaria to Jerusalem. No doubt Levi's toll station was on another route which crossed the Jordan just north of the Sea of Galilee.

It is also apparent that Sepphoris had priestly ties, being one of the very few priestly towns in Galilee. In fact a report from the time of Herod the Great tells that a priest from Sepphoris, the cousin of the high priest Matthias, substituted for the Day of Atonement high priestly duty in Jerusalem. (This was due to a perceived defilement in that the high priest dreamt the night prior to Yom Kippur that he had intercourse with a woman.)

Although Jesus and Antipas lived only 4 miles from each other, they are nonetheless very far apart. They only meet at the trial.

The archaeological excavations have proven Josephus correct when he reported that Antipas had rebuilt Sepphoris as a splendid Roman capital city. It included his luxurious royal palace, administrative offices, royal bank, archives, and a fortress.

The wealth of Sepphoris was largely based on the rich agricultural lands within the Bet Netofa Valley which stretched north of the city. Major trade routs linked Sepphoris with other important cities: on the coast (Caesarea Maritima, Ptolomais, Tyre, Sidon), and cities of the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Antioch, Damascus and Petra. The strategic position of Sepphoris guaranteed a continue flow of income from travelers.

Jesus drew images not only from "pastoral scenes with setfreeds and sowers but also urban images with kings, merchants, tax collectors, and dramatic actors." (209) Consequently, Jesus no doubt spoke Greek as well as Aramaic. Some of his parables may likely have been first spoken by Jesus in Greek; we have more of his actual words than some would admit to previously. This may help explain why the message of the Gospel was so readily received by the Roman world; the cultural gap was not significant. Jesus of Nazareth easily bridged whatever gap may have existed because He also experienced the non-Jewish culture of the Roman world through his very likely contact with that culture at Sepphoris.

posted October 27, 2007 01:48 PM              

quote:

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Can you all please suggest your favorite books on this topic? and perhaps the parts you agree and disagree with? I am just beginning the journey and i have so far to go! thank you.

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posted October 27, 2007 01:53 PM            

Heres what Quran says :

quote:

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And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment: therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.

Quran 43.61

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Theres debate I think, whether the coming occurs in the 21st century. Its interesting to note that the vedas also describes the arrival of Shri Kalki avatar during the Kali yuga or the age of darkness.

Hmmmm....amazing synchronicities amongst all these ancient scriptures.

"I am the First and the Last".
"Before Abraham, I am".
"I come from above."
All these are indeed deific statements in the new testament.

Fayte - its interesting you say Jesus's twin travelled to the Americas. Not sure I buy that. Though I am not an expert on Mormonism.

I am not sure where I am going with this. Thought will list my thoughts here and revisit later

posted October 27, 2007 03:24 PM            

But I believe the geographical search etc for Jesus blinds us to the Reality of Jesus and we miss the wonderful Teachings he left to us.

If we don`t implement his Teachings in our lives it becomes a dog eat dog world filled w/ misery, suffering,hostility and self abuse.

We can`t cut the head off the dog and still expect it to wag it`s tail.

Know Jesus and you will Know yourself.

Remember the ( Religously Universal) Golden Rule :

Judaism:
"...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18

Hinduism:
This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517

Native American:
"All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk

Sufism:
"The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this." Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order.

Christianity:
and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted October 27, 2007 04:43 PM            

Yeah true, but if I remember Fayte she is offended at people humiliating scholars. We had a great discussion a while ago on this forum. I think she is right.

One cannot call themselves to love the whole if either group of people is in love with parts and bits.

A spiritualist must never condemn religious people. If he does he is not in love with the whole.

Two people might see a broken tea pot and one will say its good the way it is. The other will say no, it has to be fixed.

Its just perception. When the perception is removed , truth appears as it is.

posted October 27, 2007 05:17 PM            

quote:

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The friend of the wisdom is also, friend of the myth - Aristotle

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quote:

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Parts of mythology are religious, parts of mythology are poetical, but mythology as a whole is neither religion nor history, nor philosophy, nor poetry. It comprehends all these together under that peculiar form of expression which is natural and intelligible at a certain stage, or at certain recurring stages in the development of thought and speech, but which, after becoming traditional, becomes frequently unnatural and unintelligible – Max Muller.

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quote:

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Myths are not just for putting children asleep, but for waking adults up. - Zaman Stanizai, Pacifica Graduate Institute Lecture

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quote:

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Myths are clues to our deepest spiritual potential, able to lead us to delight, illumination, and even rapture. - Joseph Campbell, Power of Myth

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“The subject matter is not literal but symbolic: not the external world but the human mind. Myth originates and functions to satisfy the psychological need for contact with the unconscious.” (Carl Jung)

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posted October 27, 2007 05:19 PM            

In particular, those who have the balance of mind and heart.

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted October 27, 2007 06:38 PM              

quote:

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Can you all please suggest your favorite books on this topic? and perhaps the parts you agree and disagree with? I am just beginning the journey and i have so far to go! thank you.

---

I posted some good reads on another thread, I'll post here again:

These are books by Tony Bushby that may be of help:

The Bible Fraud is Tony's first book where he tells the untold story of Jesus and his twin brother, Judas Khrestus. http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/biblefraud/internalgif/sample.htm - this is a link to the first chapter.

In Tony's second bookThe Secret in the Bible, Tony describes the lost history of the Giza Plateau and tells how Temple priests of the Great Pyramid preserved the evidence of life beyond death.

posted October 27, 2007 06:38 PM              

Deception unlocks the concealed evidence of Jesus’ twin brother and reveals how the church contrived for centuries to hide the information from the public.

quote:

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The Bible Fraud will reveal to you:

The origin of the first Gospel
The staged crucifixion in Rome
The initiation of Jesus in Egypt
The concealed place of Jesus’ death
The nature of the early church fathers
The names of Jesus’ three Royal wives
What the ancient Mystery Schools knew
Why the church burnt 12,000 Jewish books
The "fools and madmen" at the church councils
The need for the church to forge historic records
Secret ciphers and forgery in the New Testament
The real lives of Jesus, his twin brother and their families
Why Emperor Constantine called the first Christian Council

Mystery and intrigue surround the church web of deceit, corruption, murder and debauchery.
In The Bible Fraud, you will find the truth about Rabbi Jesus and his twin brother, Judas Khrestus,
their birth, marriages and deaths as well as the bloodlines that have resulted from events of that time.
http://www.joshuabooks.com/bushby/biblefraud/internalgif/untoldstory.htm

---

I'm *observing* for now

posted October 27, 2007 07:40 PM              

From Library Journal
Readers, especially Christian ones, who are unaware of current New Testament scholarship may be surprised by Shorto's work, which gives a different picture of Jesus from the one portrayed in the New Testament. Other readers, even if they have read only what popular news magazines have been reporting lately about biblical research?witness recent attention to Robert Funk's Jesus Seminar?will find here an interesting and cohesive summary of the current state of research on the Gospels and specifically on the person of Jesus. Shorto brings together results from the study of archaeological finds, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the extra-canonical gospels to show a Jesus stripped of the unhistorical. Shorto's skills as a journalist are evident in this well-written book. Highly recommended.?John Moryl, Yeshiva Univ. Lib., New York
Copyright 1997 Reed Business Information, Inc. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title. http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Truth-Russell-Shorto/dp/1573226599

posted October 27, 2007 07:54 PM              

written during his Governorship of Judaea to his friend Seneca in Rome

Edited by W. P. CROZIER (formerly Scholar of Trinity College, Oxford)

JONATHAN CAPE
Thirty Bedford Square
London

First Published MCMXXVIII [1928]

PRINTED IN GREAT BRITAIN BY BUTLER & TANNER LTD
FROME http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pontius-Pilate-Modern-Library-Paperbacks/dp/0375753974

posted October 27, 2007 09:43 PM              

~ juniperb ~
re:
** what a nice surprise to see you here ! **
cheers .. i only popped in to give info re the geography ..
and re the flaura and fauna .. something else to consider ..
is that it was evidently quite different in jesus' time ..
exactly how different i'm not sure ..
one would need to research archeological info i guess

i'm not 'into' religion myself ..
or trying to figure out the bible ..
the whole subject of religion sort of makes me see red ..

posted October 28, 2007 04:08 AM              

this is a good chart to sum up our problem

this link has a shocking excerpt from the book True blood,
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles17a.htm