posted October 15, 2007 09:15 PM         

So now look at the two lineages:

Generation Mat 1:16-2 /Luk 3:23-38
1 Jesus--------Jesus
2 Joseph-------Joseph
3 Jacob---------Heli
4 Matthan-------Matthat
5 Eleazar-------Levi
6 Eliud---------Melchi
7 Achim---------Janna
8 Sadoc---------Joseph
9 Azor----------Mattathias
10 Eliakim------Amos
11 Abiud--------Naum
12 Zorobabel----Esli
13 Salathiel----Nagge
14 Jechonias----Maath
15 Josias-------Mattathias
16 Amon---------Semei
17 Manasses-----Joseph
18 Ezekias------Juda
19 Achaz--------Joanna
20 Joatham------Rhesa
21 Ozias--------Zorobabel
22 Joram--------Salathiel
23 Josaphat-----Neri
24 Asa----------Melchi
25 Abia---------Addi
26 Roboam-------Cosam
27 Solomon------Elmodam
28 David--------Er
29 Jesse--------Jose
30 Obed---------Eliezer
31 Booz---------Jorim
32 Salmon-------Matthat
33 Naasson------Levi
34 Aminadab-----Simeon
35 Aram---------Juda
36 Esrom--------Joseph
37 Phares-------Jonan
38 Judas--------Eliakim
39 Jacob--------Melea
40 Isaac--------Menan
41 Abraham------Mattatha
42 Nathan
43 David
44 Jesse
45 Obed
46 Booz
47 Salmon
48 Naasson
49 Aminadab
50 Aram
51 Esrom
52 Phares
53 Juda
54 Jacob
55 Isaac
56 Abraham
57 Thara
58 Nachor
59 Saruch
60 Ragau
61 Phalec
62 Heber
63 Sala
64 Cainan
65 Arphaxad
66 Sem
67 Noe
68 Lamech
69 Mathusala
70 Enoch
71 Jared
72 Maleleel
73 Cainan
74 Enos
75 Seth
76 Adam
77 God

If Zorobabel and Salathiel in the two genealogies are the same,
Then the facts we have to keep in mind are:

The Zorobabel mentioned in Luk 3:27 who is a blood relative of Mary and through her a blood relative of Jesus, can not be a blood relative of Jechonias because of the curse mentioned above.

The verses above name Salathiel a son of Jechonias AND the son of Neri

The verses above name Zorobabel a son of Pedaiah AND the son of Salathiel.
We will have to assume the following, which are actually not entirely described in the Bible:

(a) Salathiel was the biological son of Jechonias. This makes (2.) halfway true.

(b) Salathiel died without child, but left behind a widow

(c) Pedaiah was Salathiel's brother and took Salathiel's widow and begat Zorobabel, this way Zorobabel can be called as Son of Salathiel AND son of Pedaiah. This makes (3.) true.

(d) Pedaiah can not be Salathiel's biological brother, since then he would be the biological son of Jechonias and therefore Zorobabel would become biological grandson of Jechonias and violate (1.) Therefore Pedaiah has to be only adopted son of Jechonias and only half brother of Salathiel. This makes (1.) true.

(e) Jechonias has to have Neri's daughter as a wife, and this way we can call Salathiel as son of Neri, referring to his grandfather through his mother. This makes (2.) true.

(f) Pedaiah has to be a son of Neri's daughter. This way he can be called as son of Jechonias when (e) happens and Pedaiah becomes Jechonias' adopted son as it is required by (d)
The assumptions between (a) and (f) could be shown with the following family tree:

*: this relationship or person is not described by the Bible, just by the assumptions between (a) and (f)

Jechonias * Daughter of Neri

Salathiel *Wife of Salathiel Pedaiah

Zorobabel

If Zorobabel and Salathiel in the two genealogies are NOT the same,
Then the facts we have to keep in mind are:

The Zorobabel mentioned in Luk 3:27 who is a blood relative of Mary and through her a blood relative of Jesus, can not be blood relative of Jechonias because of the curse mentioned above.
This is automatically true.

The verses above name one Salathiel a son of Jechonias AND the other Salathiel a son of Neri
This is automatically true.

The verses above name Zorobabel a son of Pedaiah AND the son of Salathiel.
The only thing we have to assume is:

(a) Salathiel (Jechonias' son) died without child, but left behind a widow

(b) Pedaiah was Salathiel's biological brother and took Salathiel's widow and begat Zorobabel, this way Zorobabel can be called as Son of Salathiel AND son of Pedaiah. This makes (3.) true.
This could be shown with the following family tree:

Jechonias Neri
*: this relationship or person is not described by the Bible, just by the assumptions between (a) and (b)

Salathiel *Wife of Salathiel Pedaiah Salathiel

Zorobabel Zorobabel

Zorobabel and Salathiel Answer
There are only two reasons to assume that the two persons listed in Matthew's genealogy are the same as in Luke's:

They lived approximately during the same time
Their names were rarely used
As we compare the two possible answers above, we can conclude that we stay closer to the facts described in the Bible if we accept that the Zorobabel and Salathiel mentioned in Matthew's genealogy are NOT the same as the Zorobabel and Salathiel mentioned in Luke's list.

Missing names in Matthew's genealogy
Matthew's list leaves out Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, and Eliakim from the generations of the kings. The reason for why their names were omitted is not known.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
So who is who?

Joseph Ben Heli>
>Jesus

Joseph Ben Jacob>
>Jesus

One has Solomon and David...
The other does not.
An awful lot of discrepancies and contradictions.

Then throw in the mythos Of other cultures and "histories"....and things get even more fouled up!

What a theological/philosophical/historical MESS!