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Author
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Topic: Homosexuality & the Bible?
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Yang
unregistered
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posted May 24, 2005 02:15 PM
 
I am 2nd born and I have a cousin who is lesbian and she is 2nd born too!I did watch the series Angels in America. i tought it was an excellent series. IP: Logged |
Kat
unregistered
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posted May 24, 2005 06:13 PM
"I am that"
No I wasn't implying you were judgemental only poorly informed leading you to take an ill-advised perspective.Yes, sperm is "programed" to find an ovum. But your overlooking the the part of sexuality that is emotionally attracted to someone of the same sex and is aroused by someone of the same sex. The problem that many keep perpetuating is mechanics of intercourse and the sexual act. Sexuality is all encompassing. For instance, gay men do absolutely have a better color sense than straight men. How is this ability connected to their penis? It's not, it's in their brains and probably at the cellular level throughout their body. (And speaking as an artist who has drawn many nude models - some of these gay guys have smaller packages???)
I know several lesbians who can deal with issues with an objective matter-of-fact attitude without getting emotions involved - just like any man. How is this connected with the sex act??? It's not. Sexuality is all encompassing of the physical, emotional, psychological, personality, etc. Many will tell you that homosexuality and perhaps bisexuality are subtle forms of hermaphroditism. Start opening your eyes, your ears and you'll start to see what's so blatantly obvious. "I am that" perhaps we have evolved beyond the mechanics of just sex. Something about the kitchen sink concept just leaves me drained. IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 51
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 24, 2005 07:47 PM
Kat,
I like the way you think and express yourself. Like it or not, desire, lust, homosexuality, BDSM, everything under the sun and moon is already God/dess.
A piece of a part of a whole...  IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted May 24, 2005 09:04 PM
Yang!
Another good movie about sensitive(not necessarily gay) is Billy Elliot.
I cry when I see it! What a sweet kid!
Love
fayte Oh...another that addresses racial bigotries from a zenophobic point of view is, Enemy Mine. A very touching story of love conquers all. Another teary movie.
Ok..one more on acceptance, and true love...and then I'll shut up...Bicentennial Man. So there you have it..three movies that make this Scorpio
cry.  IP: Logged |
Kat
unregistered
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posted May 25, 2005 06:16 PM
Thanks Trillian - I'm just telling it like it is.IP: Logged |
iAmThat
unregistered
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posted May 25, 2005 11:39 PM
Dear Kat, I think you are speaking the same truth as I am, but you are too obsessed with looking at your own truth. Because of lack of time, its tough to express all my opinions on this matter. The least someone can do is to not criticize but understand the shortcomings of everyone. I find it happen often in LL. When ever such things happens to me I always remind myself of the following quote: quote:
We see things as we are
If you look closely, even I was only speaking about the brains of Michaelangelo, and that of Da Vinci.I wasn't speaking of their members. I thought you had understood. The problem is that, it does take time to pen down every thoughts. As you may have noticed, I will always speak on two sides, and let the readers make their own educated answers. There are two truths, relative truths and absolute truths. Most in LL are still dabbling with relative truths. More on that later.
I understand your notion of evolution. I agree to an extent on that. Nothing is permanent in the world. A human body is changing and the difference is noticeable over many many years. Who knows, how a male body would evolve, if the majority of the population would decide to go Gay 
I would like to comment on that but would sound too gross so I better stop.
Trill, The Hindis believe theres a God for everything. Theres a fire God , a God of Love (Kaam), etc....
It appears that God/dess is embodiment of certain energies. It is all experiential, I guess.
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sue g
unregistered
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posted May 26, 2005 01:52 PM
I would hope that this wonderful forum and the amazingly open and understanding people here would not only accept, but encourage anyone who was considering "coming out". I met and befriended two gay guys who lived in torment cos they were scared of being themselves - they were both called Martin and I had the pleasure of them "coming out" to me - this still touches my heart, even tho one of them has passed on and the other moved on, I think of them often and keep a special place in my heart for them - love and openness to all xxxx  IP: Logged |
iAmThat
unregistered
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posted May 26, 2005 02:56 PM
Hi Sue, You see this is where I disagree. For paradoxical questions such as this one, we must never take a stand. Let the one who asks question find its own truth. There is a reason for that. Hope someday I will be able to better explain.
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fayte.m
unregistered
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posted May 26, 2005 03:57 PM
Look at the animal kingdom. Same sex acts are common there also. Anyone who has grown up in the country and really paid attention would have noticed. And as far as human beings..well I think it is just a matter of personal opinion. Don't want same sex relationships? Then just don't! Same as anything, food, music etc. But if that is your desired preference, then it is no one elses business. Some people only like blonds, some only thin, some black, some white, and so forth. Tolerance and acceptance is the issue here. As long as it is consenting adults then who cares? And it is normal for teens and preteens to experiment. Their heads get all screwed up when they are told it is evil. I really do not like all the uproar over this issue. There are alot more issues out there that need attended to than this one.
PS. A gay friend of mine just encountered some very bad things from big bigots! Want to get on someone's case? Go get the !@#$%^&**( self righteous bible banging bigots and hypocrits! !@@###$$$%%%^^^&&**IP: Logged |
amisha121877
unregistered
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posted May 26, 2005 04:25 PM
i'm a bit flighty, i'm confused as to the actual question or discussion of this "homosexuality and the bible". as i stated, probably because a person reads what they want to read, hear what they want to hear, sees what they want to see...............i haven't found anything in the bible which explains who/what/when/where/how to express sexuality besides slightly touching the institute of marriage which i feel is enough because even that gets misconstrued in today's day and age (keeping in mind the evolution of humans and thinking that with evolution so should human relations evolve.............in all areas of life even if it's blindly so raising confusion and fanatical behavior of such). funny as i have a friend who is muslim, and there are "rules" to how to put yourself out there in a "righteous" way amongst same sex, opposite sex, within or not - the institute of marriage but still in all - even with that, i don't believe i've ever come across an absolute yay or nay in the realm of homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality (mind you, when i was a youth, the church use to say it was against "God" to masturbate without explaining to us what masturbation was - go figure, right?). i guess i'm trying to say, i'm a little confused as to what we can talk about on this subject here or what everyone wants to talk about on this. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted May 26, 2005 05:01 PM
It is a cultural/religious/political issue. But it should not be. amisha121877..you said;quote:
"i guess i'm trying to say, i'm a little confused as to what we can talk about on this subject here or what everyone wants to talk about on this." I'm with you on that.   IP: Logged |
iAmThat
unregistered
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posted May 26, 2005 10:56 PM
Amisha,
I guess, we all need to speak the "I" statement. Share our own experiences and viewpoints. Disagree in an agreeable way. Right attitude is very important when a question is being asked by the inquirer. The answer may not always be rosy. And at most times the true answer is not even spoken for the reason that the mind is not ready to accept it. IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 6188
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 26, 2005 11:05 PM
Amen and Awomen  ------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot IP: Logged |
iAmThat
unregistered
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posted May 27, 2005 12:48 AM
Yang, Heres some more stuff from the Bible. May God speak to you thru these verses. =====================================
Mark 12:30-31 "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these." S.Matthew 19.12: for there are eunuchs ( dis-men-ed ), which were born so from their mother's womb... Romans 14.14 : I am absolutely convinced, as a Christian, that nothing is impure in itself; only if a man considers a particular thing impure, then to him it is impure. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted May 27, 2005 01:04 AM
And again, don't forget Jonathan and David.IP: Logged |
iAmThat
unregistered
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posted May 27, 2005 01:42 AM
Yang, I will give you my opinion on the first one. i.e Mark. It means that when you have filled your desires and urges, acted on all the fantasies and are then thinking of turning towards God. You must give all those up and seek God. You cannot serve two masters or follow a road fork and expect to reach the one destination. I am not sure how old you are. Go have fun. Have BF or GF. But when you seek God/dess, seek no one else. That is what this commandment means, in my mind. It is asking you to be celibate. However, not everyone is the chosen one. What does this tell you about married people? It asks them to follow a very moral conduct (such as less lovemaking)
Again I repeat, not everyone is called for this. People make their own choices in life. When you seek God, you must loose your individuality. There is no concept of YOU. There must be no identification with the body. Pain or pleasure(gay sex or straight sex) only brings back the body consciousness. Suffering exists because our body exists. Well that was why the commandment was written. The most tough of them all to keep. The point is, whether you are called for such a life or not, let this commandment be an objective in your life. Jesus, was one such incarnate, the perfect incarnate. Only the hedonists think he was married to Mary M. My heart somehow believes that they are wrong. These people only seek for validations of their own beliefs and would tear and twist your own faith. I hope I didn't overwhelm you with this info. You see, I do not know you well. I want to say more, but hate typing. Hope I said the important points.
The second commandment is telling you to be considerate of your neighbor. Never be prejudiced. Love them, feel compassion for them. Always think of their well being. Be constructive. Do things so that many would benefit. The second commandment in reality potrays the interconnectedness of all things in the universe.
The commonality between the
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Kat
unregistered
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posted June 02, 2005 06:16 PM
Any reason my reply from yesterday disappeared? Well, I guess I'll keep my comment for IAT to myself!!IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 51
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 03, 2005 09:00 AM
quote:
Trill, The Hindis believe theres a God for everything. Theres a fire God , a God of Love (Kaam), etc....
It appears that God/dess is embodiment of certain energies. It is all experiential, I guess.
I couldn't agree more. There are many religions that employ more than one God/dess. Even Catholicism has an entire hierarchy of Gods/dieties, from the Holy Trinity, to archangels, to saints for all seasons. Now as for absolute vs. relative truths.
While it's true that the sentence "There are no absolute truths" negates itself, I simply haven't seen any such thing as an absolute truth, especially in regards to religions All those who believe in specific religions believe theirs to be the absolute truth, and will swear to it on their lives. But that sort of faith does not prove that one religion is absolutely correct over any other. Absolute truth: 1 + 1 = 2. Well, is it? Could there not be a dimension or plane in which this is not truth? Could the equation itself be an agreed perception? If we believe that All Is a Piece of a Part of a Whole, then 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Absolute truth: Humans generally resemble each other, as do most species. I would submit that we've no idea if this is true. And I will concede that my belief that All Is already God/dess, a piece of a part of a whole, is indeed a belief. I would be interested to know what you perceive to be absolute truth. In fact, as I write this, it occurs to me that the only thing close to absolute truth that I can think of, is this: Life Is. Perhaps even that is debatable...  Have you read any of the works of Fritjof Capra? I think you might enjoy them, especially _The Tao of Physics_.
http://www.fritjofcapra.net/ There's a simply wonderful film based on some of his works titled _Mind Walk_. It's a conversation between a poet, a physicist, and a politician.
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fayte.m
unregistered
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posted June 03, 2005 10:47 AM
trillian!
Mindwalk! Excellent movie! I have also recommened it!  IP: Logged |
iAmThat
unregistered
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posted June 03, 2005 10:01 PM
Dear Trillan, Well my definition of Absolute truth is the truth that we do not know about the relative truths Absolute truth is Gospel (do not consider this as a Christian/Gnostic/or any other religion book, please .. I dind't meant that) to me, to others it might be life (as you nicely put) I knew this would come up and very pleased to find that Fayte has been enlightening LL with some such truths.
I find elements of those in her thread 'Who Were You' especially pages 7/8.. Thanks for the person's link, I will read it and would add a pearl of wisdom to my knowledge. quote:
An absolute truth: Infinity is what remains when you take away whole from the whole 
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iAmThat
unregistered
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posted June 03, 2005 10:24 PM
Dear Kat,
Not just your reply, even my and SueG's last post (dated four days ago) got deleted. BTW I never got to read your reply. I hope you didn't have something bad to tell me. I didn't mean to offend you, but I guess some words are never spoken and people miscommunicate. Hope you would keep that back of your mind.
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trillian
Knowflake Posts: 51
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 04, 2005 11:24 AM
Well, IAT, all I can say is that philosophy is fashion. One need only a brief history (and I'd recommend highly the book _Sophie's World_ for a good overview) to know that belief/truth/enlightenment is highly subjective, and changes through the generations, without really changing the basics of life too much. We still blow up babies, judge each other mercilessly, and generally f*ck things up. Which may indeed be a joyous right of our karma, but I really couldn't say for sure. As for the Who Were You thread, I have read some of it. While I'm sure Fayte is lovely and I admire her strength of will over the adversity in her life, I am not a fan of chanelling, nor am I enamoured of the cryptic "I know something you don't know and it's not time you're not ready to know" crap.
I have no doubt that fayte truly believes what she believes, and that her intentions are honorable, but her beliefs (including the belief in what her spirits/gods tell her) do not constitute Universal Truth, Gospel, or absolute truth. They only add up to beliefs. All this being said, I respect her right, and everyone's right, to believe what s/he wants. And I certainly have no ill will towards fayte; I barely know her. But I do not find any messages of hers that I have yet read to be 'enlightening,' for myself. I cannot speak for others. And I think most folks 'round here know how I feel about the whole over-use and misuse of 'enlightened,' anyway. Future generations may look back at our ideas and laugh, or they may be kinder, but they will likely reject them for their own new and improved attitudes towards enlightenment/God/dess. Get enough people together who generally believe the same thing and you can have a religion, but you do not necessarily have a God/dess Truth.
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fayte.m
unregistered
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posted June 04, 2005 05:28 PM
iAmThat! Thank you my friend! As you have observed..I am doing my best.
trillian..thank you for your honesty. You have your way...I have mine. I can not please everyone, nor do I wish to do so. No...you do not know me...and perhaps that is how it is supposed to be. I can only be me. No matter how others want me to be. I went too many years trying to please everyone. It led to being quite a recluse. I am just beginning to peep out and communicate again...and I can not let my fear of those who nay say me or my ways to make me feel worthless or strange or even offensive to the way they believe. Or I would go back to my seclusion and not ever post here again. Respectfully yours, Fayte
PS.you said;Quote:
Future generations may look back at our ideas and laugh, or they may be kinder, but they will likely reject them for their own new and improved attitudes towards enlightenment/God/dess. Oh my...Why do you think I often have mentioned that without verifiable emperical evidence, witnessed by others, tested and proved etc. is the only way to say what one has experienced or believes to be true....Is as I say...to be put into the bit bucket of the probable, the possible and the hypothetical/theoritical until that time it is proven beyond a shadow of doubt, both subjective and objective? I NEVER buy the whole concept of ANYTHING 100% no matter how convincing or beguiling or absolute it appears! I feel it is important to always leave at least a tiny crack in the opening to the doors to paths of enlightenment..so as to not become stuck in an unchanging stasis forever or nearly so. I do not believe I know everything...and I unlike many AM MORE THAN READY to SEE things from other views from my own if those views should prove to hold more validity than my own! I am a changing and extremely flexible soul...Albeit, it may not appear so...as I do tend to ponder long times on new or opposing ideas before accepting or rejecting them. But that little crack to let the new in and the old out is always always there!
Ok..I am getting all wound up...so...later!
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iAmThat
unregistered
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posted June 04, 2005 11:34 PM
Dear Trill, Never underestimate the power of chanelling. Let me give an example of a very famous Indian Mathematician who claims a Goddess Namagiri used to whisper in his ears. Let me introduce to you a genius guy who even after his early death kept the Mathematician's thinking. His school teacher was explaining a basic equation 'a number divided by itself yields one' For example 3 divide by 3 = 1
100 divide by 100 = 1 This he taught as follows: If you distribute five bananas amongst five students, each would get one banana.
If you distribute ten bananas amongst ten , each would get one. Ramanujan asked : 'if you distribute no bananas amongst no students, will each still get one?' Little did anyone realize that he was asking a problem of calculus. I am not sure if you know of him. He is a must read for any Mathematician.
Well more comments on the two posts later.. I had to say this before I went to bed
Regards,
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trillian
Knowflake Posts: 51
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 05, 2005 09:42 AM
Oh, thinking back,I have read a few channelled entities whom I enjoyed. I even sent a few books from one of them to 26T, and she recommended another which I bought and enjoyed. But then there are also the cracks, like Ramtha. Unless an entity is essentially saying "live and be well, and let others live and be well," I really don't have much time for them. They are smoke, without substance, and like religion, they require a leap of faith. There are some who are worthy of that leap, I'm sure.
Fayte, I am not sure how to respond. I have no beef with you, and your response to me seemed to be...hmmm, a litte off base, in regards to my original post. You've defended yourself against things of which there was no accusation.
Whether it be you or anyone else, I find myself highly annoyed when anyone says "I know something you don't know about God or spirits or The Way or The Truth." Somewhere around my desk I have a Chinese quote that I can't find so I will give you the essence of it: "Those who know, don't speak. Those who don't know, speak too much." In other words, if one truly believe he or she knows something relevant to the ways of the Universe, but also believes he or she is not 'allowed' to spread that word, what is the point of telling others? The only point I can see is vanity, to elevate one's self in the eyes of others. That may or may not be your motivation, consciously or otherwise. You've stated your opinions, I've stated mine. I wish no ill will to you or anyone else at LL. I don't post often anymore, but I will speak my piece/peace as I see fit. Namaste
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