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Author
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Topic: The 12 Heresies of Jesus
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juniperb
Moderator Posts: 8565
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 29, 2007 05:48 PM
  
Fayte.m
I to appreciate your research as well  Your quote is from John 8:44 , yes?? KJV quote:
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
If you read the chapter in "context" you will see the verse before it, 8:43 quote:
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
Why do you suppose Jesus is asking this question? 
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 8565
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 29, 2007 05:54 PM
HSC  quote:
What I thought when I first read those words is that he is illustrating a spiritual principle which appears frequently in the Gospels. Namely, that spirit, and not blood, determines your true family. Your brother is not he who was born from the same physical womb, but, he who was born of the spirit, from the same metaphysical womb - the same philosophy of life.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 06:24 PM
Mirandee,
The world, or, rather, the human experience of the world, is indeed complex and multidimensional. Certainly, any representation of Deity ought to reflect this complexity. Which is what I find so compelling about polytheistic religions. They do not, as some have supposed, reject the notion that there is an overriding, unifying force. On the contrary, they have paid much more attention to the Unity than Christianity has, with its insistance on Duality; good and evil; god and devil; - indeed, it is the so-called monotheistic religions which have really lost sight of the Monad. The gods of the Hindus are all aspects of a single God. Contemplating deity in this way, we can see how God can be a "shepherd" and a "king", a "god" and a "man", the "Son" and the "Father", the "way" and "life", and, outside of Christianity, much, much more than these. In Hinduism, they gave various names to the various aspects of God, but Christianity is handicapped by its insistence on the singularity of Jesus, which partly explains the confusion inherent in the Christian tradition. The doctrine of the "Trinity" was eventually offered (incidentally, by a Christian who later converted and was excommunicated) as a kind of prosthetic, to mitigate this handicap somewhat, but it has always appeared more than a little awkward, tacked on, and not an organic outgrowing of the original teachings.
I agree that the multidimensionality of diety is something provocative, and that seeing what appear to be contradictory sides of God infuses life and religion with a kind of vitality not accessible from a more static, rigid, or perfectly delineated viewpoint. As I see it, the problem of contradiction is inherent in the universe, and, if this "problem" can be "solved", it can only be solved on its own terms. I mean, our vision of God must be as contradictory as our vision of reality. Only in this way can our vision be a sincere and true reflection of our wisdom. We cannot see God as only one portion of existence, or as supportive of only one portion of existence; of this and not of that. God is everything. If the view of a saint is less contradictory, it is not because he/she has rejected some part of the whole, in order to more clearly define God, but, because he/she has discovered the invisible thread that traces the hand of God through both "good" and "bad" circumstances. God is in all of these. To see God in only the "good" things, is to see only half-a-god. When we try to take only what is "good", we set ourselves up to fail, because that which is "bad" does not suddenly disappear; rather, it takes refuge in our unconscious mind, and exerts a more insidious influence over us in that way. I have always taken this to be the deepest meaning of the words, "You shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God,". In other words, you cannot receive only what is good; only what is "bread". You have to take the good with the bad, the alpha with the omega. Only in this way will you live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Thanks for listening. IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 29, 2007 06:27 PM
Yeah, I thought so too.
But I gather every one sees different.To please all parties I will also say this that when a person gets enlightened, their experiences are very unique. Based on soul journey, conditioning etc.... Thought will share. No need to get dissapointed or worried "why do I see things different."
Heaps of blessings to all ....
IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 06:56 PM
junierb
You said:
To quote: quote:
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
Then asked: quote:
Why do you suppose Jesus is asking this question?
Well since I feel that 90% or so of the bible is not true, it is hard to really discern who really said what and what was added later. I mean, no one can get the basic history right, and I am supposed to believe they got all his words verbatim? Ha! Yeah right!
OK...IF any of that was actually said by him, and I do not believe all or any was...
but for sake of debate....
I think it means Yeshua KNEW he was of the God/creator/creation and not of the inferior soul base/programming of the ones created from dirt by the false Lord God of the second creation and the purely inbred Adamic line. He knew that even if his physical lineage was from there that his soul did not originate here.
That does not make him a deity, simply one of the souls from the first creation of God not the crude copies or constructs from the false Lord of the Eden zoo and his little inbreeding experiment, given souls/life from his second rate soul base.
Unfortunately at the time even Yesha was not sure I feel as to what it all meant and should have kept his mouth shut then. It was not time to tell the people...they had no eurekas or any framework to see and hear and understand. They had all bought into the tales of Lord and had forsaken the true God of the first creation, rebuilding. Yes, the first creation was a replenishing not an actual creation. And the second guy...Lord tried to warp it further to suit his own agendas of enslaving and toying with humanity and diluting the bloodlines of the ones of God.
That Lord is the deceiver and the father of lies, and even in the bible said Lord hisses for the fly and sends evil spirits and loves the odor of burnt flesh and appears in black smoke...orders murders and more.....
Yeah...Yeshua was telling them they were not of the true creations of God, the non human first race which was destroyed and the human second race of what we know of as the creation. He was calling them the inferior ones from Lord of the Eden Zoo soul/mindset.I feel Yeshua was remembering his lifetimes in a non human form from a long destroyed civilization that was destroyed before the replenishing of Earth by God, possibly millions of years later, and the tampering by Lord of the Eden Zoo long long after the new humanity had been established sparsely, but planet wide.
But that is another theory for another time.
rant over.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
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juniperb
Moderator Posts: 8565
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 29, 2007 07:32 PM
Fayte.m I thank you for the time and patience spent in answering my questions. I have never spent much time on your threads before.I wanted the opportunity to see your belief and sense I have the gist of them. We are poles apart and I see no meeting in the middle. That is not good or bad; simply a different approach to the Paths we walk. Dogma is dogma rather it is Bibical or anti - Bible. We can each be accused of it
May all your weeds be wildflowers !
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 07:53 PM
juniperb 
My theories are theories...I still actually believe very little....so unless not believing is dogma...I see it not as dogma but food for thought.
My only thing is I do NOT feel the stories commonly accepted are even close to being true.
The efforts to blind humanity to the truth has been going on a long long long time.
I am not trying to make anyone believe my theories, and I simply do not like folks to tell me their beliefs are absolute facts and become angry or hurt when I refuse to take their path. 
My disagreeing should not bother them unless they have doubts. Their need to have me agree with them is annoying. I do not ask them to believe my theories.
Their beliefs are faith, or fantasy or hope, but not facts any more than my theories are no matter how much they believe in what they believe. There is no proof yet.
And so..
I shall continue to theorize and be skeptical,
and doubt it all, even my theories,
until empirical evidence comes to fore.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 08:01 PM
Weeds ARE wildflowers! And herbs are weeds too! 
It is all in one's point of view! I love the dandelion and the wild mustard, cress, woodbind, Queen Anne's Lace, thistle, cattail,
goldenrod, ragweed, cockleburr, Indian paintbrush, and so many others that many folks call noxious weeds I call flowers and or foods!
Blessings to you juniperb. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 09:44 PM
Juni I liked your reponses and I also agree that it is totally possible that what we see as contradicitons in Jesus may not be contradictions at all. Which is why I would like to discuss it. Was it contradictions or is that just how we see it? Would really like to hear more of your thoughts on that. I also agree on what you said about dogma and that is something to keep in mind. As all dogma is based on analytical thought. Be it biblical or from other sources. Including our own. I also fully agree with what you stated, Mannu. IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 09:50 PM
HSC said: quote:
I agree that the multidimensionality of diety is something provocative, and that seeing what appear to be contradictory sides of God infuses life and religion with a kind of vitality not accessible from a more static, rigid, or perfectly delineated viewpoint. As I see it, the problem of contradiction is inherent in the universe, and, if this "problem" can be "solved", it can only be solved on its own terms. I mean, our vision of God must be as contradictory as our vision of reality. Only in this way can our vision be a sincere and true reflection of our wisdom. We cannot see God as only one portion of existence, or as supportive of only one portion of existence; of this and not of that. God is everything. If the view of a saint is less contradictory, it is not because he/she has rejected some part of the whole, in order to more clearly define God, but, because he/she has discovered the invisible thread that traces the hand of God through both "good" and "bad" circumstances. God is in all of these. To see God in only the "good" things, is to see only half-a-god. When we try to take only what is "good", we set ourselves up to fail, because that which is "bad" does not suddenly disappear; rather, it takes refuge in our unconscious mind, and exerts a more insidious influence over us in that way. I have always taken this to be the deepest meaning of the words, "You shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God,". In other words, you cannot receive only what is good; only what is "bread". You have to take the good with the bad, the alpha with the omega. Only in this way will you live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
I especially loved what you said here: "If the view of a saint is less contradictory, it is not because he/she has rejected some part of the whole, in order to more clearly define God, but, because he/she has discovered the invisible thread that traces the hand of God through both "good" and "bad" circumstances." Yes!!!!!! You nailed it!!!! That Jesus suffered so much and told his disciples they would also suffer the same fate was a huge hint.  I am sure he did say that as it is so very evident in life itself. I like very much what you have said in your posts, HSC. I went to post this three times and it would not post but my other response did. And I lost the other part of it so maybe it was not meant to be.  Too weird. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 10:11 PM
Thanks for letting me have a say here.
I shall now toddle my heathenistic skeptical self off to other threads.
Thanks again for peacefully letting me post some of my theoritical views.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
unregistered
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posted October 29, 2007 10:12 PM
Thanks.IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
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posted October 30, 2007 10:40 AM
I was truly hoping that we might share some thoughts and questions that we have on the topic I posted. I have read Scripture countless times. Which is the way it should be read. Scripture is not a book you read through once or even twice like other books. Mainly because every time you read each passage you get something new to think about. New insights and new ways of looking at it. I never really understood what Jesus meant when he said " I have not come to bring peace to the world. I have come to bring division." That is why I liked this article. It poses another way of looking at that passage. Because if you think about it, that is another contradiction. Jesus is called the Prince of Peace. In God there is no division. God unites. Anything that divides is not of God. For Jesus to say he brings division can be seen to go against the very tenets of the oneness in God with all of creation. Which is something that Christianity teaches. It's also something that everything else Jesus said pointed to. Jesus is attributed in Scripture of saying this and yet his whole message was about love and peace. So why did he say this? What does that passage mean? I have my thoughts on what he meant. I wanted to hear the thoughts of others. I thought maybe we could pose the questions and wade through it all together. I thought maybe we could give our thoughts regarding conflict and the apparent contradictions in Christian Scripture, our world and our lives. Since the beginning of the religion of Christianity itself - as the articles I posted here point out - all of Jesus' disciples, all the biblicial scholars and theologians throughout the history of Christianity, and even those who knew Jesus while he lived on this earth knew there were contradictions. Those that set the Gospels down in writing did not omit those contradictions and even felt they were necessary to tell the story. To this day the contradictions in Scripture have not been omitted. From all that was related of the mission of Jesus we can easily see how he was always in conflict with the authorities of his time. I personally think that since Jesus had a human nature he also had inner conflicts as all human beings do. That notion is not shared by those who only focus strictly on the divinity of Jesus. That's another conflict within Christianity itself. It's also always been a part of the religion. There are those who do only focus on the divinity of Jesus. Then there are those who only focus on his humanity. Then there are those who say he was both human and divine and look at it from both sides. For this reason I fully agree with what HSC stated that the problem with Christianity has been in the singleness of focus on who and what Jesus actually was. I think that it's those disagreements and divisions of thoughts within his very followers themselves over who and what Jesus is was what Jesus was referring to when he made that statement. And to this day can any of us actually agree to what Jesus asked, " Who do you say that I am?" Although what came after that, when others said they think he is this and that, and Peter responded by saying, " You are the Lord." Jesus said " Blessed are you, Peter for it was not man who revealed that to you but God himself." Jesus praised Peter for being open to the revelation. I add that because nothing from Scripture should be discussed or presented out of context to what came before it was said ( or done in actions ) and what came afterwards. Juni stated that also. Another thing I wish to clarify is that Catholics don't take Scripture literally, we take it literarily. In the context of all the different forms of writings contained in Scripture from poetry, to songs, to hyperbole, or in the form of parables, etc. Juniper, I do hope we can go on talking about this because you are very knowledgable and you are probably one of the best role models that LL has for teaching everyone how a debate should actually be conducted. I hope HSC and others wade through this too. Fayte, I do not see your thoughts as Hedonistic, nor do I think that others here do either. They are your thoughts. That is the only way I see them. What we might ask of you though is that for this moment in time you take the trip with those of us who do believe and who do question our beliefs. Can you just for this time, just at this moment pretend that Jesus might have actually said these things? And if he did why do think he said it? I think conflict exists and that the reason Christianity is not only comfortable with it but thrives on it is because it always pushes the envelope, it always keeps us questioning and thinking, faith and hope depend on how we react to conflict, we grow through it, the religion itself grows through it. Jesus, I think, wants us all to keep trying to answer that question he posed over 2000 years ago, " Who do you think I am?" Just in attempting to answer that one question we run into conflict. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted October 30, 2007 12:57 PM
quote:
Fayte, I do not see your thoughts as Hedonistic
Hedonostic??????????
????? 
As far as my thoughts are mine..yes...based on my personal experiences/observations...
of course we will not agree. My experiences are not yours nor yours mine. I would be a liar if I said I agreed! And I will not do that to please or placate anyone. Even as a child beatings were preferable to lying to save myself from bloody whippings. Or punishments from teachers and clergy. I could have saved myself from much pain and persecution then and even up to nowadays, if I had lied and said yes I agree and buy into it all. But I will not cannot do that. To thine own self be true....like me or not...I am myself with my own thoughts. That may make me a kind of doubting Thomas, but that is better than a denying Peter. Or a turncoat fake who would deny who they are to save themself.
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"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
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posted October 30, 2007 01:25 PM
HSC
I will reply to your post when I get time. I am still trying to figure out exactly what you are asking/saying. 
I have a 10 year anniversary today...
Halloween tomorrow...
then a Harvest celebration...
And my birthday all this week! So I will not be about as much.
And still recovering from recent surgery and complications.
Interesting thread and I am happy to see no fighting.
 ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 8565
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted October 30, 2007 02:03 PM
Mirandee I would love to discuss this as well with you. My time is limited at the moment but I noted this on a quick read. quote:
For Jesus to say he brings division can be seen to go against the very tenets of the oneness in God with all of creation
Yes he does say that but what do you believe he is refering to in this division? I will look in later after work! ------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
Mirandee
unregistered
|
posted October 30, 2007 03:02 PM
Sorry, Fayte. I misquoted you. You stated:"I shall now toddle my heathenistic skeptical self off to other threads." I thought you said hedonistic. A simple mistake in reading. Nothing more. edited to add: I don't think they are heathenistic either. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
unregistered
|
posted October 30, 2007 03:33 PM
I should have said:
heathenish
There is no such word as heathenistic that I can find.
By some definitions I am a heathen though,
Which I do not mind being.heathendom noun, heathenish adjective, heathenism noun
hea·then (hē′ən)
noun 1. in the Old Testament, a member of any nation or people not worshiping the God of Israel
2. anyone not a Jew, Christian, or Muslim; esp., a member of a tribe, nation, etc. worshiping many gods
Main Entry:
2heathen
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural heathens or heathen
Date:
before 12th century
1 : an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible hea·then (hn)n. pl. hea·thens or heathen
1.
a. One who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.
b. Such persons considered as a group; the unconverted.
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
unregistered
|
posted October 30, 2007 05:36 PM
ok fayte,I'm a little unsure of what you were saying, too. I understand that when you say "I dont believe"
you are not saying, "I negate the possibility",
but that you are not persuaded into belief. But then you proceeded to say things which,
in the context of the post,
seemed to suggest that they were reasons for disbelief.
I did not see them as valid reasons for "not believing".
For one thing, "not believing" is a non-action,
and it only means that something did Not persuade you,
and not that is dissuaded you.
From the context, it seemed like you were saying
that, because people turn things into excuses,
it is a reason which dissuades you from believing in those things.
Perhaps you were just saying it makes you suspicious of those beliefs
when you can see the less than noble motives which
might inspire those beliefs (in Satan, etc.) in some people? IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 8565
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted October 30, 2007 06:21 PM
Mirandee, KJV Luke 12 :51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division
Luke 12 : 53
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus knew the message he had been preaching ( lose the self and seek God) would cause division and addressed the fate (division) of the family members who chose the ego/nafs/materialistic way of life over seeking the kingdom of God. It was NOT Jesus`s choice. For many of the PEOPLE will chose to refuse God . So, in effect they created the division.
quote:
Do not think that I have come to bring Peace...but division
Jesus might as easily and as rightfully have said, Do not think that I have come to make peace with the values of this world. Do not think that I have come in order that you might domesticate my message. Do not think that I will confirm the traditions,habits, and thinking patterns of your Mothers and Fathers.
I divide multitudes of Human Beings because I am Truth and the Truth it`s self can never be divided. Those who stand on the side of Truth will find Unity within themselves. Those who opose Truth will oppose me and thus be divided.
Jesus came not to please us but to Teach us the Way to God and knew many would choose self love ( the big "I") over the Kingdom of God.
This is my belief and understanding of the verses.
love,
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~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 8565
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted November 01, 2007 01:55 PM
Has this thread been abandoned for the racier ones?
------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~ - George Eliot IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
|
posted November 01, 2007 03:45 PM
My 2 cents. It is wrong to say God does not divide and Satan does.Nothing lasts forever. Even the cold  November rain No matter how bright the day is. The night has to follow. I will give my own clues to understand Genesis as follows: 1. Genesis means "In the beginning."
No man/woman who were poets, scientists, spiritual guru, saints, slaves,etc has ever reported of knowing this central question. Some gurus will call it a philosophical question. Philosophy - greek word for wisdom (Sophia).
And sophia is eternal. Genesis was written to preserve for future generations of Jews. Little did they knew Non Jews will also read it one day.
Not one person was told the entire story because no one really understood why was things to come? The books in OT were written over time by several prophets of God. 2. I and Fayte had a interesting conversation on one of the thread where we discussed the mysterious process of death. I can't remember if I stated there - when one knows the end, the beginning is also known. Why am I saying this now? I am trying to divert the attention of people who seem stuck on the beginning. Perhaps it would help. And I believe my own search for the real Jesus is over. I had a scorpio moon too remember? I kept digging until I found. No wait a minute the hindu astrology says I have Libra moon.
Which means I should sound confused.
Hehehehe....
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Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 01, 2007 03:59 PM
Even quantum mechanics says we must just be contend to never know the truth.
So by that argument:
- the virgin birth is a mystery or is not a mystery. - Jesus is God or Jesus was man - Free will exists . Free will does not exist - Mannu knows the truth . Mannu does not know the truth
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Mirandee
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posted November 01, 2007 11:42 PM
Juni said:"Has this thread been abandoned for the racier ones?" No, Juni. I do want to get back and respond to your post. On top of having a virus infection that has made me feel bad all week, it has just been a very hectic and busy week so far with Halloween and the grandkids. My oldest son has been home from the road this week as well and has been staying with us. I just have had limited time. To even think!!! LOL I did get a bit sidetracked with the racier threads. LOL But only posted a couple of times on there. I'm sorry but will try to get back and respond more in depth sometime tomorrow. I read your post and I agree with your thoughts about that verse. That is the way that I also interpreted that passage. Looking at what came before and what came after what you stated and what I always felt it meant makes perfect and logical sense to me as well. But I still like to question other possibilities. I know that Scripture is such that when you go back and re-read each time you get something different from the passages. By that I mean new things to ponder over. I am kind of attempting to explore the possibilites here. IP: Logged |
Mirandee
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posted November 01, 2007 11:55 PM
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Lindaland
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