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Author
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Topic: HSC and Petron discuss and debate God
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Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5390
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 04:50 PM
 
OH, Do insist HSC!!!!   IP: Logged |
TINK
Knowflake Posts: 3857
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 30, 2007 04:51 PM
quote:
It is almost a matter of course, in a forum like this, that when any person speaks up and admits to having an understanding, and not merely an opinion, belief, or theory, concerning spiritual matters, that this person will be accused of arrogance and shortsightedness. Although this is often the case, it is not always so. Face it: Every spiritual teacher you ever paid homage to claimed a kind of understanding. It is easy enough to recognize them when their words are in print, and history has sancioned them to some degree. Hindsight is 20/20. Why is it so hard to accept the possibility that someone with understanding might be here now; someone who looks like us, sounds like us, but doesnt parrot all the same New Age sophisms that are so commonplace with us, and which it is so taboo to contradict?
I heartily agree ... more so than you likely know. Do you think yourself capable of recognizing them? Looking forward to the arrival of Sir Petron ... IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 7337
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 04:51 PM
Unmoved,Thank you for your thoughtful post. I'll respond when I can, as best I can.
hsc
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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 7337
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 05:02 PM
Hi Solane. 
TINK,
quote:
I heartily agree ... more so than you likely know.
Good for you. 
And for me.
I was afraid I'd be alone in this... again. quote:
Do you think yourself capable of recognizing them?
Some of them, I think, yes.
But I know one thing for certain.
That they do exist,
and this was the principle thrust of my post. quote:
Looking forward to the arrival of Sir Petron ...
Me too.
More than you likely know.  IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 05:06 PM
HSC, sure thing. I am seriously looking forward to it...and... 'just so I am clear about this topic: This is a debate to explore other views, not a competition to see who is right or wrong, as MM said above, am I correct? Well, that's how I view it. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 05:12 PM
Unmoved I posted it in 2005 so it was before you joined LL.
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 05:13 PM
Please continue with the questions and please keep in mind that this debate is to be, with Petron's permission, a discussion/debate between Petron and HSC.
I ask everyone to refrain from entering the debate. I have created another thread for anyone to add their thoughts, sort of a "lobby" of the conference area where everyone can discuss topics amongst themselves that will arise from this discussion.
Please keep the responses here to short questions and applause only, until the two speakers have fully explored the subject to their satisfaction, when they will then surely open the floor to debate and discussion by all on the information they have presented.
If you wish to have a personal debate/discussion with either speaker, you can certainly open up a thread inviting that exchange as you can do any day here at LindaLand, and HSC or Petron will join you if they are inclined and choose to share energy at this time or any other time you invite them in conversation.
It is very important to keep this thread a safe place to share each of their ideas (without the interference of all of our different and genuine perspectives) for all of us to benefit the most from this sharing of the minds of the two selected speakers. It is very tempting to participate in the debate, but again, I kindly ask everyone to refrain from voicing any opinions other than basic respectful applause/approval, such as various flavors of "good point" and "well said". Here is the "Lobby" thread to share in discussions on this topic/conference with your colleagues. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002944.html Remember, too much conversation here will distract their minds from the subject at hand. Let us all co-create a clear channel of energy to charge this discussion between these two great minds.  IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 7337
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 05:18 PM
quote:
'just so I am clear about this topic: This is a debate to explore other views, not a competition to see who is right or wrong, as MM said above, am I correct?
Wrong. LOL This is an attempt to get at The Truth. As I've said before, I take this seriously.
This is no game of show-and-tell for me.
Comparing worldviews is not like comparing taste in movies.
F--- that sh--. (If I may be frank.) This is the most important thing we could be doing,
or one of the most important things we could be doing. We are looking for The Truth.
The mouth it comes out of is irrellevant. Others want to make it about ego.
It's not about ego. The only loser is Falsehood,
the only winner is Truth. If I am proven mistaken,
you will find me an extremely gracious "loser",
because I desire to be on the side of truth. Only "fools despise correction" (proverbs). We are here to put our views to the test. Make no mistake, you will be tested. Let me repeat that, so we are clear:
You will be tested; not attacked. If you have no reasons to support your positions,
now is the time to opt out,
and go find a more casual thread. Here, you will be asked "why" you think as you do.
And your answer will be subject to critical dissection. If you have solid arguments,
this should in no way deter you. I look forward to it, too.
HSC
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Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 05:34 PM
Hmmm... I see...Well, if I am to speak of my personal beliefs, then I would not have asked HSC those questions because 1) I know my purpose. 2) I know my God. etc. So... Personally, there is nothing for me to say in this discussion. Hypothetically there is a lot. So... keeping to the rules... to HSC for this: quote:
We are looking for The Truth.
The mouth it comes out of is irrellevant.The only loser is Falsehood,
the only winner is Truth.
MM - apologies for being long-winded. IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 05:41 PM
 *meet me in the lobby* IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 7337
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 06:08 PM
[edited:
moved to lobby]IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 2769
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted October 30, 2007 06:18 PM
HSC,My question to you is: "Are you absolutely certain of the truths that you know as truth?"
If you replied yes then please state one of your absolute truths and we can go from there.
IP: Logged |
NosiS
Moderator Posts: 969
From: )
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 06:36 PM
"Insight is not an act of remembrance, the continuation of memory. Insight is like a flash of light. You see with absolute clarity, all the complications, the consequences, the intricacies. Then this very insight is action, complete. In that there are no regrets, no looking back, no sense of being weighed down, no discrimination. This is pure, clear insight - perception without any shadow of doubt. Most of us begin with certainty and as we grow older the certainty changes to uncertainty and we die with uncertainty. But if one begins with uncertainty, doubting, questioning, asking demanding, with real doubt about man's behaviour, about all the religious rituals and their images and their symbols, then out of that doubt comes the clarity of certainty."Bron: Krishnamurti to Himself, Ojai California, Wednesday 20th April, 1983 IP: Logged |
NosiS
Moderator Posts: 969
From: )
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 06:44 PM
"The fact is there is nothing that you can trust; and that is a terrible fact, whether you like it or not. Psychologically there is nothing in the world, that you can put your faith, your trust, or your belief in. Neither your gods, nor your science can save you, can bring you psychological certainty; and you have to accept that you can trust in absolutely nothing. That is a scientific fact, as well as a psychological fact. Because, your leaders – religious and political – and your books – sacred and profane – have all failed, and you are still confused, in misery, in conflict. So, that is an absolute, undeniable fact."
-J. KrishnamurtiIP: Logged |
Petron
Knowflake Posts: 3031
From: Paradise
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 07:09 PM
sorry, i dont know much about God....nor do i spend much time thinking on that subject....the only thing i know intimately, through introspection, is the dragon..... 
out
Petron(the Dragon)
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MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:10 PM
I think Petron has declined to have this discussion. IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:17 PM
(We posted at the same time) I know you have a great deal to teach. HSC does too. It is unfortunate you don't fill in the gaps. Not that anyone ever does... or maybe they do...
hmmmm Isn't the dragon the same thing... the neverending story? The O ne? Serpent eating it's tail... IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:24 PM
the Mystic Melody.... Uni-Verse... One Song...we aren't arguing about what to call Existence, right? It would really suk, I mean "be unfortunate", to not explore these answers over semantics. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:26 PM
Since we are discussing a subject that is one of faith, belief, and theory.....There are no absolutes...no empirical evidence that can be tested to validate the truth. So by that token if we must give proof...
then this thread is already dead.
------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:39 PM
Well, I wasn't talking about proof, but who needs the secrets of the Universe when something good is probably on t.v....Whenever the Wheel of Fortune gives you a bad spin... there is always Wheel
of
Fortune. Guess Free For All is the only way to go. MY mistake. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:51 PM
quote:
Why is it so hard to accept the possibility that someone with understanding might be here now; someone who looks like us, sounds like us, but doesnt parrot all the same self-patronizing New Age sophisms that are so commonplace with us, and which it is so taboo to contradict?
I would add to to this line my highlighted bits: quote:
but doesnt parrot all the same self-patronizing New Age sophisms, and Biblical Dogma that are so commonplace with us, and which it is so taboo to contradict?
I have asked and thought all that since I stood up to the minister at age 8 and told him he was wrong.
I have no proof, only my dreams and visions and eurekas. Things that have been happening to me as long as I can remember...back to age 2 1/2. Yeah I was a weird little kid speaking in tongues too.
Funny how if one writes a book like Cayce..or Sylvia Brown and mentions Jesus and Angels, then many people believe them. Or toss in such new age phrase as love and light, star family, lightworkers and so forth and the rest are off and running to the next new wave of shove this crystal where ever and become magically enlightened.....And that is proof? Truth? Yeah right.
I'd say more but do not see what good it would do.  ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:59 PM
Agreed, Fayte. Here's a thought...
what if the different books advance different people at different stages? I'm not impressed with the likes of Silvia for example, but many many many people are and it has progressed them to some degree on their path. There are those who are not impressed with my teachers as well, but "it works for me". IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 08:02 PM
quote:
Here's a thought...
what if the different books advance different people at different stages?I'm not impressed with the likes of Silvia for example, but many many many people are and it has progressed them to some degree on their path.
Very wise reasoning there! 
The thing is to then not buy it as absolutes and keep looking and listening. ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 08:03 PM
And we all really have the same teachers... the same energies teaching us... but in different combinations and to different degrees. We have absorbed and come to understand some of these... but not all of them.... yet.
IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 08:13 PM
I think a lot of people have trouble really "listening". Most of the misunderstandings here, for example, result from people only skimming what is said and then replying to what catches their eye and sparks an idea in their mind or an argument. That is why I was really hoping for a clear, logical discussion on points most of us DO agree on, with additional information we may not have considered or fully understood in the past. I like what Juni said on the other thread. It is indeed a loss.
Thank you for sticking around and bouncing some ideas around, Fayte. I often agree with and impressed with much of what you say when you are 'in the zone' and teaching.
You have shared some valuable information and wisdom.IP: Logged |
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