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Author
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Topic: Conversations that spiral from debate/discussion
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MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 02:26 PM
 
Please share thoughts and ideas here related to the HSC/Petron discussion. Feel free to agree or disagree and debate points that the speakers can choose to consider in their own discussion.IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 02:32 PM
Is God a person? How can this Be? Is God just a floating head or a Kingly person floating on a throne? An idea of a person? A real person? I accepted this when I was very young to some extent but it never felt "right". I would be interested in hearing thoughts from those who believe this and I would like any comments I made where I misunderstand their beliefs to be corrected to their true understanding of the subject. ***edited to add I thought Satvic was saying this was his belief, which I was giving respectful open-minded consideration. I re-read what he said and I was mistaken, he was simply saying there are those who may have this belief. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 02:37 PM
Your topic starters should generate some intriguing responses!
I would like to see no fighting and just folks presenting their theories.
If folks can feel comfortable stating what they believe, know, or theorize;
it would be very interesting to me!
No debate or arguments about who is right or not.
I want to see the views of all who desire to give their telling.
 ------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
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MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 02:47 PM
Your support means a lot to me, Fayte. I would love to hear your ideas on any of the information presented. I also hope Sattvic posts here and explains what he brought up on the other thread. I would really like to co-create a clear channel for a sharing between Petron and HSC. I admire their intelligence and I enjoy learning from them individually, and I know that both of their minds put together will create a lot of power and powerful ideas. I hadn't seen Petron around LL for so long that I thought he had left and I had lost my opportunity to fully learn from him. I hope he accepts because I am really looking forward to this exchange. I read some of your discussion with Mirandee on the Jesus thread a little while ago and I hope Dee will also join in discussing more of these issues in how they relate to the HSC/Petron discussion here on this thread. I had planned on mostly listening and learning, but I might feel moved to share in the conversation here too. I feel the same as you do about the sharing of ideas and I know that others love that too. God bless all of us in this sharing in the true Spirit of LindaLand. IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 05:46 PM
Hello UnMoved  I know you are asking questions etc. Just think of me like the girl with the microphone roaming through the audience taking questions while trying to keep things focused on the speakers.  hehe
If you feel the energy is right for you to share some of your ideas here, it would be really nice for everyone, and would get the ball rolling here and begin opening our minds to different points of view. 
IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 05:56 PM
Hi hi MM...  I am at the lobby. Ok... The thing is, I usually challenge someone who I agree with, not as a test, but to gauge if we really are on the same page... because the questions I ask are questions I have asked myself, questions that cemented what my truth, or questions that cracked my truth. So... I am really going to enjoy being the Devil's advocate here... Thanks MM.  IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake Posts: 7337
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted October 30, 2007 06:13 PM
Unmoved,If you wish only to ask questions,
you are, of course, free to do so,
and I will gladly take the "defensive". I would hope that,
if you have knowledge
which contradicts my responses,
you will not hesitate to share it -
if not to test it for your own sake,
at least to possibly enlighten us all. If you want to play devil's advocate,
that's fine too. I'm happy for you if you know your purpose and your God. I'm sorry if your "knowledge" is hypothetical. hsc IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 12268
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 06:20 PM
Reminds me of the San Jose Sharks season opener when they had a freak power outage right before game time, and had to delay the game for about a half an hour.Where is Petron? *crickets chirp* IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 06:20 PM
If you search the threads on this topic you will see many "devil's advocates" and this usually leads to hurt feelings and people jumping in to protect their friends feelings etc and then spirals off into an ugly war where nothing of value is discussed. I chose to start a thread that was only between two speakers (who many of us here at LindaLand respect... one or both of the two) to avoid any such disintegration of the conversation. I would love to see other threads set up between other people who choose to debate the same topic. Like a thread could be named, for example, "UnMoved and Fayte discuss/debate God" and it would follow the same principals as the first thread. Or, if others did not want to have an all-out debate with someone, they could just debate casually back and forth here in the lobby. The thread with HSC and Petron will be more of something between the two of them, for all of us to read and try our best to understand. These men are pure genius and it will take great critical thinking skills for the listeners/readers to understand and fully analyze everything these two will bring up. I want the two of them to challenge each other, and for all of us to ask questions for clarity-sake if necessary, but not play devil's advocate. I hope you understand and are with me on this because I definitely don't want to try to change the mind of someone named "UnMoved" hehe I'll have to check my birthday thread for your placements again because I can't remember right now. After those two exhaust the topic completely and everyone has read ALL of the information and very thoughtfully considered it, that is when it will be appropriate for all of us to debate the material presented by the two. If we attempt to insert ourselves before that, feelings will get hurt and arguments will ensue as they always have in the past.
That is what I am giving this energy to avoid. I need everyone's help. IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 06:21 PM
I used to write for a website (www.africans.co.za) that was before my energies had to be focussed elsewhere.My handle was Unmoved Mover, and my mood was "taciturn"... I, and other writers, adopted a persona for our writing because we had to produce an article every week. The two debaters can see if this is useful for their arguments.
quote:
Topic: FEAR NOT THE PITS OF HELL; FEAR THE PITS OF YOUR PUNY BRAIN.
Date: Thursday, April 20, 2006
Everyone believes in something, in a God of some sort, be it some sort of deity, technology, science or art; and even when they choose not to believe something, their agnostic state of mind is still a belief of not believing. This is the same as saying that when there is a choice to make, not choosing anything is still a choice in itself, because you choose not to choose.
I have been called a heathen many a times because I do not choose to worship any of the revered Gods of Moses, Noah, Mohammed, and such; the Gods that are depicted in many of the world’s leading religious scriptures. I am what they call a non-believer because I do not bow down to the God that governs many of my fellow human’s minds. I am often asked if I believe in a God and the answer is always “yes”, but when I am asked which religion I belong to, I say that I belong to a religion that is not a religion. Thus, my title of non-believer, because I choose not to take part in this mockery our earth calls religion. Why do I shun this way of life that has given many a people salvation? Why do I spit in the face of the “holy”? Who do I think I am that I should blaspheme so violently? The answer to that is as offensive, yet as lacking in malice, as the 'abominable' sight of anything unusual; and the answer is: I AM GOD. Yes, I am the Lord, your Saviour, which many of you are aimlessly searching for; which some of you have had a grasp of, to only have Him or Her slip through your buttered fingers. Why would I worship something when I am that great something? Have you ever heard of a king bowing down to himself? If I am to be likened to someone, it would have to be the Narcissus for he worshiped himself (although he was cursed to do so), but unlike Narcissus, I do not think of myself as superior to other entities that have the honour of having the chi course through their beings; be it plant, crawling or walking creature, because I am connected to all that is alive, and I go as far as saying that not only am I connected to anything and everything, but I AM all that lives, lived and shall live. Many have cursed me to hell because of my heathen beliefs, and they could be right because every man or woman, in history, that has spoken these words, declaring themselves God, has been rebuked by their brothers and sisters and then ultimately crucified, for the world perceives it as sinful to consciously know and love oneself unconditionally. The God in which many of you believe in is a cowardly, little fool and I will not be part of it; and if we believe in one God, then you have turned him into a mockery and a cuckold. What God, with all knowing power and wisdom, would give us free will to later limit us with Laws or restrict us with the renowned "Ten Commandments"? It would be a God of many shortcomings indeed because it would mean that He/She is either a sadist or a blundering idiot to give us a key to every door to only command us not to open them. It is said that His words were altered to imprison us in a system of control that masqueraded as spiritualism, and such accusations do not seem so far-fetched to me because in my heart of hearts, when I read the book of Deuteronomy, when the self-righteous Christians were trying to convert me, I did not feel that the words spoken in this book were commandments, but instead signs and teachings of an ideal way of life. Because when I read: “Do not kill” I felt that if it were my God speaking, he would have said, “You may kill if you so wish, but be aware of the consequences that follow, because many things foul stem from smothering the right of another to live; but you will know that you are much closer to godliness when you “do not kill”. When I read: “Do not steal” I felt that if it were my God that spoke, he would have said. “You may steal if it so serves you, but be aware that there are consequences that may follow, and know that by thus choosing to steal, you also choose the probable, foul results that stem from stealing; but know that you are much closer to godliness when “you do not steal”. And so on, and so on. Thus, the reason I shall not be a Christian fool and follow the orders of the real blasphemers who pose as men of God, and be a puppet to someone’s carefully laid mind-control plans, is because I feel that to worship a fool is to be a fool. Instead, I shall praise myself and those that honour me with their kindness of giving me a healthy mind, body and spirit (if that is me, I shall worship myself accordingly; and if that be someone or something else, that will be my God). I would rather worship the fruit I eat than worship a God with self-esteem problems, or any God of an organized religion, because the fruits give me life while these Gods kill me slowly like a deadly, gluttonous virus by putting me in shackles of spiritual slavery. I would rather worship the man I meet in the street than these Gods because my fellow humans acknowledge my existence, thus giving me instant life, rather than worship a make-shift God that tells me that I was born a sinner, deformed in the spirit and less alive, when I was, in actual fact, born balanced and without fault; born the way I should be in this Eternal Now. I will rejoice in the salvation of love, beginning with the love of self, then the love of others, followed by the love of the universe and all that is in it. I will not walk in a man-made synagogue or temple, but instead I will pray on top of a high mountain, my natural place of worship, that cannot be burned or moved by mere mortal hands, and pray to the beauty around me with gratitude for its creation. I will honour my elders, and do all that the Ten Commandments command us to do, but not because I obey, but because I choose to do what best serves my goal of fulfilling the desire of being WHO I AM; and most of all, I will call myself God without fear or regret because I am not a product of a lunatic God and I am not ashamed of what I am. Instead I will call myself God because I am a part and extension of the Almighty, a limb of the Alpha and Omega and the hand of the Yin-Yang. Yes! I am the dichotomous, limitless, lovely, eternal and godly… Unmoved Mover. Can I hear an Amen!
IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 06:32 PM
Steve, behave if you keep inviting sparring partners against my rules...uhh REQUESTS... you are going to turn this into another free for all and then you really will be on your "own". AG, you crack me up. I was thinking something along the same lines. You can be the announcer, ok? "Ladies and Gentlemen! Let's get ready to RUMBLE!!!!" hehe The energy is palpable. Ok, Steve, here's some tape for your hands... some powder... a quick shoulder rub... are ya ready? Nice shorts and mouth guard. Don't forget to say a prayer...
Oh wait, what sport is it again?
Hockey?
hehe Petron will probably come home and decide to have a Bud and jump into a bath or something... nahh... he'll just sense something is going on, right?
IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 06:35 PM
Ooooo, nice writing UnMoved, can't wait to give it a more detailed read! IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 06:36 PM
HSC... you misunderstand me, I think. What I meant to say is that, the things I questioned were not things I personally question, but may be things that could be questioned.This means that I can challenge something, even if I agree to it, just because I can. I know what I know... and it is my truth, not anyone else's... MM is right. People do get offended about such things, and I wish not to offend anyone. I live and let live. I really couldn't give a rat's-ass if a person bows down to the post-box. Unfortunately, or fortunately, nothing is absolute in my reality, that includes my own truth. If anything is absolute, it would have to be the the fact that nothing is absolute to me. IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 06:42 PM
Yes... open-mind... "empty rice bowl".It is my sincere wish that everyone approaches the thoughts of these two in this way. IP: Logged |
Mannu
Knowflake Posts: 2769
From:
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted October 30, 2007 06:43 PM
Amen to Unmoved.I think there are about 614 commandments in the OT.
The book of Moses wasn't written by Moses.
IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 06:48 PM
Yeah... I haven't read the whole bible, nor have I studied it. So... Thanks for that Mannu.
IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 12268
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:03 PM
I don't know the back story on HSC and Petron's discussion previously. If I have time maybe I'll search for it.IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:19 PM
The only discussion I have ever seen is right there... Mirandee's Free Will thread. IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:27 PM
Did Mercury just duck behind a rock or something? Well, it's all over ladies and gentlemen. You can all go home or debate amongst yourselves...Nothing to see here...
IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 07:31 PM
I'm sorry MM. It was not meant to be, I suppose... But, well done to you... IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3627
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:43 PM
Well, I hope you start a thread some time to discuss/debate this topic so you have a chance to have the experience you were hoping for...
I will read the information you shared tonight.
IP: Logged |
ListensToTrees
Knowflake Posts: 4086
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 07:45 PM
quote:
Is God a person? How can this Be? Is God just a floating head or a Kingly person floating on a throne? An idea of a person? A real person?
In all honesty, I really don't know. I'm still trying to work this one out. I believe that there are many "Gods". However, I think perhaps in addition to these more advanced, highly aware beings....
there may also be..... an Infinite Consciousness, which is simply pure love, from where we all came..... A place of pure love, of simply "being", just (as a great speaker recently put it) an "is-ness" Which does not vibrate, and therefore create...... It is Nirvana; it is peace.
But I am just a mere mortal.....
Turning infinite ideas around in my head
In the limitations of a finite, material existence. 
------------------
If only we could feel and understand all each others feelings....then EMPATHY and LOVE would be law in itself.
http://www.myspace.com/lostinstrangeworld IP: Logged |
Unmoved
Knowflake Posts: 823
From: South Africa
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted October 30, 2007 08:06 PM
MM... that article was just a satire, A pure rant, so... don't forget the pinch of salt. IP: Logged |
fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 08:08 PM
MysticMelody Thank you.{{{hugs}}}------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
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fayte.m
Knowflake Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted October 30, 2007 08:12 PM
HSC 
This is just plain arrogant and rude. You have no proof either mister. quote:
I'm happy for you if you know your purpose and your God.I'm sorry if your "knowledge" is hypothetical. hsc
Your stuff is hypotheticals and rehashings of biblical writings and other writings.
And you are sorry her "knowledge" is hypothetical.????????????
What?????? So do you think yours is not?????????????
OK for discussion and debate,
but far from any valid evidence to it being real knowledge or truth.
None of that is proof.
No more than anyone here has any empirical evidence.
I do not.
And neither do you.------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
"My body is physically disabled, but I am not my body nor am I its disabilities!"
"I would rather," Truth said; "to walk naked than wear the raiments of Falsehood!"
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{}<}}(*> <3
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