|
Author
|
Topic: Go Figure...
|
OptiMystic
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 12:19 PM
 
Deep e.r & High Ya EverOne Quote: The Times October 05, 2005 Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.
The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible. “We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture. The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US. Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began. But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”. The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible. In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions. They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”. The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.” They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach. “Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.” Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.” As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing. Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb. The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.” In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context. They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true. The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.” A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly. That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.” BELIEVE IT OR NOT UNTRUE Genesis ii, 21-22 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man Genesis iii, 16 God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”
Matthew xxvii, 25
The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”
Revelation xix,20
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”
TRUE
Exodus iii, 14 God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”
Leviticus xxvi,12
“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”
Exodus xx,1-17
The Ten Commandments Matthew v,7 The Sermon on the Mount Mark viii,29 Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ Luke i The Virgin Birth John xx,28 Proof of bodily resurrection Taken from http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1811332%2C00.html...&found by TA*Ra
*Heart* IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 12:33 PM
OptiMystic  thanks again, you beautiful soul
that url was not found I'll go look them up... ... Love and Light to ALL IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 01:00 PM
Ooooh I never figured that the Catholic Churh were ones to change things around when it suited them......... or change their rules from time to time....mmmmm.....wondering where in the scriptures it states that child abuse is acceptable.....still if its a priest committing it, then that would be fine, wouldnt it (aaarrrrghhh)!!!!The word on the street here in Eire is the great Catholic Empire, the backbone of Irealnd, is crumbling.....now I wonder where these bright young things get that idea from.....haha !!! Still the church has changed their ruling on contraception, yes guys we can buy condoms here now. This is after years of dictating "go forth and multiply, and every sperm is sacred", apparently not so any more??!! Also they have brought in divorce...whod have thought it hey.....my my they are giving out mixed messages indeed. What a strange religion it is and how foolish they are beginning to look, still the younger generation, thanks be to God are copping on.......... 
IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 11, 2005 01:49 PM
Heres the URL...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1811332%2C00.html I thought they always maintained not to take texts literally compared to other sects of christianity, thats how I was told long time ago. You cannot still ignore the catholics they have some of the best collection of books collecting dust and still in the Vatican library. When they release it to the public, that will be a great story actually. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 01:54 PM
thanks iAmThathope you don't mind me thanking you
you are very helpful
and have helped me alot
so thanks again Love and Light to ALL IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 11, 2005 02:19 PM
Mention not Lotusheartone. quote:
We are all in search of truth and bump into each other while hunting for it. And when we find it we would marvel and rest. And then be like trees allowing birds to build nest on them. Giving its cool shade to travellers. Very soon. Very soon.-IAT
IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 02:43 PM
Truly Beautifulharmony Love and Light to ALL IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 02:49 PM
Not harmony though for those poor souls that I speak off.....the abused ones hey.......what of them ? !!!!It is so easy to turn a blind eye when it is not us being hurt, abused, defiled.....I never could do that.....I always felt for others, their pain, their suffering..... If I can speak out against injustice, I will......not many seem to support that though.....it is easier to sweep it all under the carpet.....I see that every day here.....it breaks my heart.....   Love and justice to all xxx IP: Logged |
lotusheartone
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 02:54 PM
Image the World
the way you want it to be
is the glass half full
or half empty
optimism
goes a long wayand I suffer along with all that suffer, I feel there pain, my choice
so I send Love and Light all the time I can, to all
IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 11, 2005 03:43 PM
Hi Sue,
I honestly hear you. But no sins is not worth forgiving. Be it even a murder. quote:
Prostitutes and Tax collectors will enter the Kingdom before you - Jesus
So if my Master is not judging, who am I to judge. But do I raise a voice yes? We all did. This is America Sue. They fired 3 priests from my region. There is also less contacts between children and priests these days. What else can we do really? To be honest, I am also thinking, what else is all this leading too? It raises more fear than anything? A time will come when a father would touch a 8 year old girl and he will be labelled "Abuser". When will a child ever get the freedom to trust someone? They will be more depressed don't you think if that culture continues? Wonder what direction the Church is going to? Will there be no buildings in the future? Who knows? I have seen priests available these days online, if you want to get married. Lot of strage things happening, my friend. I am keeping awake.
Take care...
IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 11, 2005 04:33 PM
Did you guys notice the article.Virgin Birth is True. Does it mean its really true? 
IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 11, 2005 08:06 PM
IATI am wondering how many people you have met and known who have been through the horrible ordeal of being buggered/beaten/physically and mentally tortured by "holy people". Your "forgive all" theory is wonderful in an ideal world........ What if you were to see a priest still walking around the streets, knowing he had touched your son/daughter and because of your neighbours fear to unite and speak out, he was let away with it......Ive a feeling you havent lived in an environment like this at all....maybe I am wrong. I happen to have the courage of my convictions....I was raised by a very outspoken father who helped many....whilst others sat by just TALKING about things, he acted, and often quickly.....he taught me to fight for justice....sometimes forgiveness isnt enough.....we have to expose these people. If I just said "oh well we have to forgive them" and leave it at that, what part would I be playing, if that priest went on to abuse again.........? Your post seemed to minimise what I was talking of......like "oh where will it all end"...........I dont think you have experience of this. I have worked with people who have gone thro this...... I will take your words to heart, try to be Godly and attempt to forgive those sinners......but God forgive me if I were to look into the eyes of another who had lived in fear without FIRST trying to DO something constructive !!!
Who would be the sinner then???????? Take care Love
Sue x
IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 11, 2005 10:36 PM
Oh Sue, My first sentence "was I hear you". I cut short because of my struggle with English language. Wish I could be as fluent as you all are. I have noticed I am getting better. This is the only place where I empty my ink most  I hate to quote a scripture saying from my Master, because I am starting to get the feeling that people here at LL do not seem to receive anyone with religious interests. But if I am allowed to use a scripture saying just one time, then I would use the quote from Mark "And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. --Jesus (Mark 9: 36-42)" I do not know if that statement was modified by hands of men. To me it actually means whoever causes a child to stumble, it is better for him to drown. I honestly do not believe anything more should be said about the punishment for such a person. And did I experience such abused kids? Yes, I did. Their shyness, their taking to drugs, sex, orgies, multiple affairs, experimentation, etc. is a direct result of that experience. Such children would never become what so called good society calls normal. Rarely you would find people like Oprah Winfrey who are able to get past those hurdles and rise to greater heights. Some of them are never able to forgive themselves even when their life ends. No matter how much counselling one gives during those times. These people go by the philosophy, "Some one always has to die. Some one always does. -- Basic instinct" They are like those flowers who does not bloom when spring arrives due to the early rains. So what is the solution? Do we allow married catholic priests in the church?
Well they believe Jesus was not married?
Was Mary really the inheritor of Jesus's light? Tradition says holy men have conquered their animal nature (Sex being one of them as in animal)
In the light of a recent book by Dan, does Mary secretly carry a blood line of Jesus?
Why shouldn't she? The world needs Messiahs?
Since Jesus's material body is so pure why won't he continue his blood line? These are questions that we must ask ourselves? And when we do ask, we simply do not know? As I said before the Vaticans knows a lot of secret stuff, including Nag Hammadi texts? Is the texts not so clear on the matter?
Besides what is the guarantee, that married priests will not abuse children.
There are no guarantees in life, my girl. Currently sex is winning and there are lot of vacancies in the catholic church of America? In America there are a lot of good preachers who honestly makes you want to come to the sunday services. I am lucky to have one of such talents. There will always be a few bad apples in the basket. It does not mean, the whole basket is bad.
What I had in mind when I said where is this going to, I actually was questioning myself. Why is being naked taboo.
Why is good good and bad bad?
I think we all have contributed in some way to the society? And we all can change it.
The thing I was going with culture is that don't you think the guy in west is more hungry for love than his eastern neighbor? Why is a 1 year old asked to sleep in a separate room? Pardom me. For the stupidness of the question, but I must ask. Children needs to be in constant touch with the mom and dad. We are depriving those kids of that love. Its essential for their development. How many are raised by a single parent or by step moms/dads. I am not generalizing but ask those abusers, why they did that? Its the society that has made them the monster that they are.
More later Miss Sue G.
IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 12, 2005 04:42 AM
IATYour English is perfectly good man, I didnt even "pickup"
that it wasnt your first language to be honest...no worries there....you are doing good Well we agree on one thing thats for sure.....childrearing....I dont know how many children you have, but we just have one. He is going on 7 now and I still dont like the idea of children having to sleep on their own.....I am so aware of their need for mum and dad and the close comfort. I always asked the question....how come parents get each other to hold and cuddle and the child has to sleep on their own.....I think your post came as a message to confirm to me, what I am doing is right. At times our child comes into our bed....a child expert...who I must say is brilliant, she works with colours and does art and voice therapy, advised me to take him back to his bed when he comes to ours. I dont......he is allowed to be held and soothed....mostly this is in the wee small hours of the morn. I know he aint gonna do it for ever, so the sacrifice is worth it. He needs me, as I needed my mum, although I feel it was with my dad that connection.....mmmmm.... As for the catholic priest thing.....no I dont agree with you there. Statistics show that in Eire vicars and clergymen of other religions, Church or Ireland, etc are not as predispoed to abusing children as their Catholic brothers. They are allowed to marry. Of course IAT theres no guarantee, but the chances are if these priests are allowed the necessary and natural outlet of lovemaking they may not feel the need to touch children. Ive met many an angry one cos they aint "getting enough".....LOL..... sorry and pardon my phraseology...well you know what I am saying. I mean the wonderful release of tension one can get through a good session!!! hahaha !!! I still dont think people in Ireland have spoken out enough......its not that they dont care, it just that they FEAR......Jeez I would speak out anytime.....like I said I had the greatest male role model....hence my ease with the opposite sex.....thanks Dad !!! Yeah I agree with what you say about society creating the monster....in this case the catholic regime has caused much heartbreak and damage already......and that is my point.....WE cannot let it continue.......... Love to all Sue XXX IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 12, 2005 10:47 AM
Good Morning Sue or is it Good afternoon for you  I thought when I come back later you would skin me alive. He he he...
But guess astrology says only a Cancer man of all signs can take all that Scorp gaze without blinking his eyes - He he he... You said "no I dont agree with you there..." I don't agree on what you think I agreed on either. We are indeed speaking the same truth. Remember, I was speaking about Dan Browns book (Da Vinci codes) indirectly encouraging priests to marry. Sorry it didn't come out clear. The Catholics in America are still divided over allowing priests to marry and stopping these abuses. I for one haven't decided what is correct?
I really didn't meditate long enough on that may be. May be because like what you said, I am light on this. IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 12, 2005 11:09 AM
>>>only a Cancer man of all signs can take all that Scorp gaze without blinking his eyes - He he he...
I edited that so that you know...Earlier one didn't quite say what I wanted to.
IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 12, 2005 03:46 PM
I also know a Scorpio man that can do that too IAT......not blink, I mean....he has lovely clear eyes too.......
xxx
IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 12, 2005 03:48 PM
oh yeah.....and why would I want to skin you alive......not at all.....I just went off on one a bit and am extremely passionate about certain things....you put your view forward and no it didnt p*** me off at all......just might not agree with you.....but no problem. Take care love Sue xxx IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 12, 2005 04:18 PM
Thats a great philosophy.
You said "I also know a Scorpio man that can do that too IAT......not blink, I mean....he has lovely clear eyes too"
No No No....my observation is that same two zodiacs needs to be atleast one month apart to have a better relationship otherwise it gets little complicated.
Well don't want to create a heart breaking moment for the rest of you guys.
Thats why I say often the limit is the "Isis Veil"
IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 12, 2005 04:32 PM
mmmm......maybe IAT.....one of my best friends has been an astrologer for 25years, she is also a Cancer and a very powerful psychic too. She says thro her observations the most enduring of marriages has been between two Scorps...what do you think of that......wouldnt they wanna kill each other.....LOL ??xx IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 12, 2005 04:38 PM
Well with 2 scorps either hit of well or don't. And if they hit off well, theres no stopping. But the best marriage in heaven is still not scorp-scorp. Nada. I do not buy that. But like I said to each its own. Ultimately what matters is that 
If is makes you happy,
then why are you sad
Take care my friend.
IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 12, 2005 04:45 PM
Ooooohh.......nice singing voice.....I was looking for a man to sing a song with....do you know it....... My young love said to me
my mother wont mind and my
father wont slight you for your
lack of kind, as she stepped
away from me, this she did say
it will not be long love till our
wedding day What do you think? IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 12, 2005 04:51 PM
No I haven't heard of it.
But thats the song, I am sure my scorp sis would have loved to listen during her wedding. Her hubbie is 5 year younger and they are happppilllly married..... with a lovely kid.IP: Logged |
sue g
unregistered
|
posted October 12, 2005 04:59 PM
Its called "She moved thro the fair".Your sister sounds like a woman after my own heart"......... xxx IP: Logged |
iAmThat
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
|
posted October 12, 2005 10:02 PM
Amazing. I know that you had a venus in 8th. And I thought it means you get attracted to older/wise men than fall for twinks May be I am wrong. There are always exceptions iAmThat, my sElf. IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
