posted December 11, 2008 10:21 AM              

It makes sense that there may be some parasitic entities which exist, who have forgotten their true source and therefore become separated from it, from our love source within, a place of infinite energy. (?) Or something along those lines.

I don't think death that we see on this plane, is a natural state of being. I think it is an illusion, and I feel that this dimension is a spirit prison, but perhaps we chose to come here to experience the contrast between good and evil, and perhaps in some way it helps us to grow as infinite creators, little sparks of the "one creator".

posted December 12, 2008 08:49 PM            

LORD God of Genesis 2 is good?

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1 SAMUEL

16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

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Exodus
Chapter 3
3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

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Then this contradiction..Lord hardens Pharoah's heart...then wants revenge for what he did?

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Exodus Chapter 4
4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exodus Chapter 7
7:13 And he (LORD God)hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuseth to let the people go.

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I could go on..where this "good" god hisses for the flies, admits to creating evil and darkness, appears in black smoke, loves the smell of burnt flesh....
Makes all his prophets be liars, even admits to making them be liars....
so many insane contradictions, so much bloodshed and evil done supposedly by command of this good god and his good angels.
Why do few bother to see this? Are they skipping those bits or what?
He favorite servants and the patriarchs and kings he loved...were murderers, adulterers, drunkards, mass murderers, those in incestuous relationships,...and the list goes on....like AFTER the "thou shalt not kill...this god sends his favorites out to do genocidal mass murdering even of babies. .....and slavery, rape and pillage, tortures galore....and this is good? Lucifer had no part in those bloody sprees condoned and ordered by the so called LORD.

posted December 12, 2008 11:55 PM            

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EXODUS 19:18
And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

EXODUS 19:19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

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posted December 13, 2008 10:01 AM              

I'm just curious about something....I get the impression, and I may have this wrong, that you feel that Lucifer is or was real....do you have the time here to explain what persuaded you that Lucifer was real and not simply an ancient myth. Or email me about it if you prefer.

I have not studied the Bible in depth, I find it rather vague. Also, if these "gods" are real entities, is there more evidence from other scriptures that Lucifer was not the bad guy? I know some people theorize that Jesus and Lucifer may actually be the same being.

Sorry if this information shocks Christian readers of this thread....I do empathize with you as I used to religious as a teen.....in a sense I still consider myself a christian in that I believe in the teachings of love and compassion, what some may call "christ consciousness"....which are actually the polar opposite of the cruel destructive god portrayed in the Bible.

So again, I apologize to anyone who feels shocked and offended, but what is far more shocking and offensive are the atrocities people commit against their fellow human kin, in the name of religion and in the twisted mindset that is born of rigid dogmatic belief systems, that prevents people from thinking and developing empathy.

posted December 13, 2008 10:06 AM              

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2_LhmSygBQ

posted December 13, 2008 10:23 AM              

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.“

posted December 13, 2008 06:52 PM            

1 Samuel 16:14-16
What was this evil spirit the lord sent? Perhaps Saul was simply depressed. Or perhaps the Holy Spirit had left Saul and God allowed an evil spirit(a demon) to torment him as judgement for his disobedience(this would demonstrate God's power over the spirit world--1 kings22:19-23). Either way, Saul was driven to insanity, which led him to attempt to murder David.
Harps were popular musical instruments in Saul's day, and their music is still known for its soothing qualities. The simplest harps were merely two pieces of wood fastened at right angles to each other. The strings were stretched across the wood to give the harp a triangular shape. Simple strings could be made of twisted grasses, but better strings were made of dried animal intestine. hARPS COULD HAVE UP TO 40 STRINGS AND WERE LOUDER than the smaller three-or four-stringed instruments called lyres. David, known for his shepherding skills and bravery, was also an accomplished harpist and musician who would eventually write many of the psalms found in the Bible.

Exodus 3:2
God spoke to Moses from an unexpectant source a burning bush. When Moses saw it, he went to investigate. God often uses unexpected sources when working in our lives too, whether people, thoughts, or experiences. Be willing to investigate, and be open to God's surprises.

Exodus 4:21 God did what he had to do to save the peoples lives caused all kinds of spectacular miracles in front of Pharoah to show these people his great power. He wanted to show he was serious god a god of discipline. He had set the royal bloodline into motion to put Christ into power to overthrow Lucifer.

Exodus 7:13-14
When god says something is going to get done he makes it happen he hardened Pharoah's heart to put into action his prophesy. After all he is the creator and he can do whatever he wants to do with us.

posted December 13, 2008 09:07 PM            

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The way Lucifer treated Jobe wasn't very nice.

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2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and ...

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posted December 13, 2008 09:21 PM            

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IS SATAN LUCIFER?

by Bert Thompson, Ph.D.

It is sad, but nevertheless true, that on occasion Bible students attribute to God's Word facts and concepts that it neither teaches nor advocates. These ill-advised beliefs run the entire gamut, from harmless misinterpretations to poten- tially soul-threatening false doctrines.

Although there are numerous examples from both categories that could be listed, perhaps one of the most popular misconceptions among Bible believers is that Satan also is designated as Lucifer, within the pages of the Bible.

What is the origin of the name Lucifer, what is its meaning, and is it a synonym for Satan?

Here are the facts.
The word, Lucifer is used in the King James Version only once, in Isaiah 14:12:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!.

The Hebrew word translated Lucifer is helel (or heylel), from the root, hâlâl, meaning, to shine, or to bear light..

Keil and Delitzsch noted that, it derives its name in other ancient languages also from its striking brilliancy, and is here called benshachar (son of the dawn). (1982, 7:311).

However, the KJV translators did not translate helel as Lucifer because of something inherent in the Hebrew term itself. Instead, they borrowed the name from Jerome's translation of the Bible (A.D. 383-405) known as the Latin Vulgate.

Jerome, likely believing that the term was describing the planet Venus, employed the Latin term "Lucifer." (.light- bearing,) to designate the morning star, (Venus).

Only later did the suggestion originate that Isaiah 14:12ff.was speaking of the devil. Eventually, the name Lucifer came to be synonymous with Satan. But is Satan, Lucifer?

No, he is not.

The context into which verse 12 fits begins in verse 4 where God told Isaiah to, take up this parable against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!.

In his commentary on Isaiah, Albert Barnes explained that God's wrath was kindled against the king because the ruler intended not to acknowledge any superior either in heaven or earth, but designed that himself and his laws should be regarded as supreme.(1950, 1:272).

The chest-pounding boast of the impudent potentate was:

"I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High(vss. 13-14).

As a result of his egotistical self-deification, the pagan monarch eventually would experience both the collapse of his kingdom and the loss of his life -an ignominious end that is described in vivid and powerful terms. Sheol from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming, the prophet pro- claimed to the once-powerful king.

And when the ruler finally descends into his eternal grave, captives of that hidden realm will taunt him by saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms?. (vs. 16).

He is denominated as a man, (vs. 16) who would die in disrepute and whose body would be buried, not in a king's sarcophagus, but in pits reserved for the downtrodden masses (vss. 19-20).

Worms would eat his body, and hedgehogs would trample his grave (vss. 11,23).

It was in this context that Isaiah referred to the king of Babylon as, the morning star. (son of the morning.; .son of the dawn.) to depict the once- shining-but-now-dimmed, once-lofty-but-now-diminished, status of the (soon to be former) ruler.

In his Bible Commentary, E.M. Zerr observed that such phrases were ..used figuratively in this verse to symbolize the dignity and splendor of the Babylonian monarch.

His complete overthrow was likened to the falling of the morning star. (1954, 3:265).

This kind of phraseology should not be sur- prising since .n the O.T., the demise of corrupt national powers is frequently depicted under the imagery of falling heavenly luminaries (cf. Isa. 13:10; Ezekiel 32:7), hence, quite appropriately in this context the Babylonian monarch is described as a fallen star [cf.ASV]. (Jackson, 1987, 23:15).

Nowhere within the context of Isaiah 14, however, is Satan depicted as Lucifer. In fact, quite the opposite is true.

In his commentary on Isaiah, Burton Coffman wrote: "We are glad that our version (ASV) leaves the word Lucifer out of this rendition, because, Satan does not enter into this passage as a subject at all. (1990, p. 141).

The Babylonian ruler was to die and be buried. fates neither of which Satan is destined to endure. The king was called a man, whose body was to be eaten by worms, but Satan, as a spirit, has no physical body.

The monarch lived in and abided over a golden city, (vs. 4), but Satan is the monarch of a kingdom of spiritual darkness (cf. Ephesians 6:12). And so on.

The context presented in Isaiah 4:4-16 [i]not only does not portray Satan as Lucifer, but actually militates against it. Keil and Delitzsch firmly proclaimed that Lucifer,. as a synonym, is a perfectly appropriate one for the king of Ba- bel, on account of the early date of the Babylonian culture, which reached back as far as the grey twilight of primeval times, and also because of its predominate astrological character. (1982, p. 312).

They then correctly concluded that Lucifer, as a name given to the devil, was derived from this passage, without any warrant whatever, as relating to the apostasy and punishment of the angelic leaders. (pp. 312-313).

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REFERENCES

posted December 13, 2008 09:35 PM            

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What was this evil spirit the lord sent? Perhaps Saul was simply depressed. Or perhaps the Holy Spirit had left Saul and God allowed an evil spirit(a demon) to torment him as judgement for his disobedience(this would demonstrate God's power over the spirit world--1 kings22:19-23). Either way, Saul was driven to insanity, which led him to attempt to murder David.

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posted December 13, 2008 09:43 PM            

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You see Lucifer can misguide us

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if we don't have the blood of Jesus Christ on us.

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You see the God of the bible is a good God

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it's Just being Misinterpitted.

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posted December 13, 2008 10:36 PM            

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REVELATIONS 22 VER 16

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.“

Its clear in this verse right here that Jesus identifies himself as Lucifer the Bright Morning Star... so unless you consider Jesus to be evil Lucifer is not evil...

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13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

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posted December 13, 2008 10:53 PM            

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Hi Lexx.....I feel you make some very important points there, thank you for sharing them.

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I'm just curious about something....I get the impression, and I may have this wrong, that you feel that Lucifer is or was real....do you have the time here to explain what persuaded you that Lucifer was real and not simply an ancient myth. Or email me about it if you prefer.

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I have not studied the Bible in depth, I find it rather vague.

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Also, if these "gods" are real entities, is there more evidence from other scriptures that Lucifer was not the bad guy?

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REVELATIONS 22 VER 16

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.“

Its clear in this verse right here that Jesus identifies himself as Lucifer the Bright Morning Star... so unless you consider Jesus to be evil Lucifer is not evil...

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I know some people theorize that Jesus and Lucifer may actually be the same being.

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Sorry if this information shocks Christian readers of this thread....I do empathize with you as I used to religious as a teen.....in a sense I still consider myself a christian in that I believe in the teachings of love and compassion, what some may call "christ consciousness"....which are actually the polar opposite of the cruel destructive god portrayed in the Bible.

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So again, I apologize to anyone who feels shocked and offended, but what is far more shocking and offensive are the atrocities people commit against their fellow human kin, in the name of religion and in the twisted mindset that is born of rigid dogmatic belief systems, that prevents people from thinking and developing empathy.

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posted December 14, 2008 11:04 AM              

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Indeed, the love and compassion is good. But not if it is only for ones who believe as you do.

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posted December 14, 2008 09:29 PM              

Enlil= the God of the old Testament whom I also felt to be evil... Enlil was/is Enki's half brother.

Zecharia Sitchin had quite a few things correct, although not all!

Lucifer= Jesus, bringer of truth and enlightment.

posted December 15, 2008 05:33 PM              

now remember "luciferian is an energy" so it cannot be brought all at once ... to much to soon brings chaos ... in any sense of life... all at its alotted time as Linda would say....to restrict this knowledge or to flood with it is a disaster in either sense... like a light rain it shall fall

posted December 15, 2008 06:16 PM              

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Much of my personal research and experience in psychic Archaeology

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posted December 15, 2008 07:07 PM              

Here’s some good info: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000101.html
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum21/HTML/000010.html

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