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Author
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Topic: One More Year Until the Rapture
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oneruledbymars
Knowflake Posts: 1048
From: South Carolina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 26, 2012 09:06 PM
  
*handing you some tissue*IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5859
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 26, 2012 09:08 PM
quote:
Certain religions have dogma, and assert beliefs based on faith alone. That is not a necessary characteristic of religion, however, properly understood. The etymology of the word "religion" is instructive. Literally it means to "tie back" [to God], or to "re-tie" us, from the Latin re (prefix meaning "back", or "again") + ligare (to tie, bind, or yoke). The word "yoga" has the same root meaning. Now, re-yoking oneself to God does not require dogma as a prerequisite. In fact, one could be stranded on a desert island with no knowledge of the pope, or of any organized religion, and do quite well indeed in the religion department, taking the term literally as a re-yoking . Reyoking or re-tying oneself to God is an experience available to all who seek it, and one does not need to be a declared Christian, or Muslim, or anything else, to partake of that experience.
Simply true  ------------------
We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5859
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 26, 2012 09:57 PM
ORBM, If true Christians go up in the rapture,
you may be stuck here on earth with me  ------------------
We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 39333
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 26, 2012 09:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by oneruledbymars:
*handing you some tissue*
You are a sweetie lol xxx
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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
charmainec
Moderator Posts: 5928
From: Venus next to Randall
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 01:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
ORBM, If true Christians go up in the rapture,
you may be stuck here on earth with me
Me, too.  ------------------
quote:
Remember, love can conquer the influences of the planets....It can even eliminate karma.
Linda GoodmanIP: Logged |
RegardesPlatero
Moderator Posts: 4367
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted August 27, 2012 05:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
Do remember Jesus`s own words:Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Many have come before and predicted a Rapture time and many were wrong. I attribute that to the Christs very words spoken to us in Matthew. It is a slippery slope to state one more year to rapture. [b]1792 - Shakers calculated this date. 1844 - William Miller predicted Christ would return between March 21, 1843 and March 21, 1844, then revised his prediction, claiming to have miscalculated Scripture, to October 22, 1844. Miller's theology gave rise to the Advent movement. 1977 - William M. Branham prophesied that the Rapture would take place in 1977.
1981 - Chuck Smith undogmatically predicted that Jesus would likely return by 1981. 1988 - Publication of 88 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1988 , by Edgar C. Whisenant. 1989 - Publication of The final shout: Rapture report 1989 , by Edgar Whisenant. More predictions by this author appeared for 1992, 1995, and other years. 1992 - Korean group "Mission for the Coming Days" predicted October 28, 1992 as the date for the rapture. 1993 - Seven years before the year 2000. The rapture would have to start to allow for seven years of the Tribulation before the Return in 2000. Multiple predictions.
1994 - Pastor John Hinkle of Christ Church in Los Angeles predicted June 9, 1994. Radio evangelist Harold Camping predicted September 27, 1994. 2011 - Harold Camping's revised prediction has May 21, 2011 as the date of the rapture. 2060 - Sir Isaac Newton undogmatically proposed, based upon his calculations using figures from the book of Daniel, that the rapture could happen no earlier than 2060. [/B]
Personally, I do not believe that anyone can predict the date. I was going to quote that bit in Matthew about "not knowing the day or the hour", but you've already done that. Only God knows if and when the world will end. I don't believe in trying to predict it. ** I also have to point out too, for those who aren't Christian or familiar with differences between different Christian groups, that the "rapture" is NOT a universally-held Christian belief. It tends to be more of a belief held by evangelicals, born-again Christians, and conservative Christians. Most moderate and liberal Mainline Protestants and most Roman Catholics that I know do not believe in it. There are several different interpretations of Revelation. This article below outlines the most common five interpretations. It is a bit lengthy. I also have to mention that the author does slip in some personal opinions. References are given at the end. http://bible.org/article/interpretive-models-book-revelation-whole I'm not going to get into it with people on this. I'm simply posting the article so that people can consider different views. Frankly, I've had a lot of personal conflicts outside of LL to deal with lately, and have had a lot of stress due to anxiety/distortions/misunderstandings, so I'm even less in a mood for arguing and conflict than usual, and am not posting this to cause aggravation or stir anyone up. Again, the point in me posting is to give different points of view and let you decide. IP: Logged |
RegardesPlatero
Moderator Posts: 4367
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted August 27, 2012 05:44 AM
a few more links giving different points of view:1) this one states that the events already happened (preterist)
http://preterismmatters.webs.com/thebookofrevelation.htm 2) this gives the idealist, preterist, futurist, and historicist POV:
http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.5110361/k.5D09/Four_Views_of_Revelation.htm IP: Logged |
iQ
Moderator Posts: 4258
From: Chennai, India
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 06:08 AM
I would not like to go until every Human has ascended And after that, it is a timeless quest to hunt down the Demiurge and de-create it. Never again must such an entity exist anywhere in the Universe.IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5859
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 08:01 AM
I have found 2 camps of Rapturites. One camp is gleeful their known heathenites will not rise and drink rapterous honey with their fellow Christians. Then there is the camp of sorrow. they mourn that not all will rise. They desire everyone to be saved , rise and taken home to Glory.
IQ just introduced me to a third and lovely camp.
A camp where all ascend to our higher consciousness = heaven. ?
quote:
Originally posted by iQ:
I would not like to go until every Human has ascended And after that, it is a timeless quest to hunt down the Demiurge and de-create it. Never again must such an entity exist anywhere in the Universe.
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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost IP: Logged |
oneruledbymars
Knowflake Posts: 1048
From: South Carolina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 11:32 AM
So I guess it will be Charmaine, Juni, Me and IQ left behind so far.
I think I quite like the idea of a good hunt IQ.  IP: Logged |
Lei_Kuei
Moderator Posts: 868
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 12:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by oneruledbymars:
So I guess it will be Charmaine, Juni, Me and IQ left behind so far.
I think I quite like the idea of a good hunt IQ.
I'm too sexy to ascend  Party at my house, Ill bring Cthulhu  ------------------
~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;} IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 884
From: charlotte, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 27, 2012 12:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
a few more links giving different points of view:1) this one states that the events already happened (preterist)
http://preterismmatters.webs.com/thebookofrevelation.htm 2) this gives the idealist, preterist, futurist, and historicist POV:
[URL=http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.5110361/k.5D09/Four_Views_of_Revelation.htm]http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.5110361/k.5D09/Four_Views_of_Revelation.htm[/UR L]
Yep, thing is it is far more motivating to speak of a "rapture" then it is to actually consider those other pov's. Love they neighbor is not as sales generating as the latest book about "the signs are there, the rapture is near!" For my own pov, I see a mixture of things at the time, and things yet to come. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 39333
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 27, 2012 12:13 PM
If I stop posting, you can look up to the Heavens and say your Goodbyes to me  ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5859
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 03:10 PM
Fellow left-behinders , I am honored to have your company . We can make our own heaven on earth.  ------------------
We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 39333
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 27, 2012 03:29 PM
You are in good company Juni. Noah's arc is a picture of the Rapture and people were laughing all the way until the Flood took them  ------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 39333
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 27, 2012 03:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NosiS:
Harold Camping is a false prophet.
Of course he is. False prophets will be part of the end times as well as the tares among the wheat.
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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5859
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 04:08 PM
The Bible doesn`t use the word "rapture" as some Christian sects believe it. The Latin Vulgate uses the word rapiemur, meaning to be caught up. There is a reference (paraphrased) about the saints of God being suddenly taken up into the air or as the catching up of Christians . But, rapture per se is not of the Bible.
So, guess I`m saying to those "left behind" , you will be in ots of good company
------------------
We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost
IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1511
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted August 27, 2012 05:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by oneruledbymars:
So I guess it will be Charmaine, Juni, Me and IQ left behind so far.
I think I quite like the idea of a good hunt IQ.
Ever heard of the pagan football game?
http://www.paganlibrary.com/humor/pagan_football.php But Sam wasn't the only Christian left behind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiwGt6KcC6Y  IP: Logged |
athenegoddess
Knowflake Posts: 1584
From:
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted August 27, 2012 07:07 PM
deleteIP: Logged |
oneruledbymars
Knowflake Posts: 1048
From: South Carolina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 07:23 PM
I found this article by Cecil Maranville to be interesting.
"The origin of the rapture theory
Credit for its origin generally goes to John Nelson Darby, a 19th-century theologian.
Let's define some common terms to help one navigate the technicalities, for in reading about the rapture, you will often encounter the words postmillennialism, amillennialism and premillennialism . First, the root word, Millennium, comes from the Latin for 1,000 years. Religiously, it refers to the first 1,000 years of Christ's reign over the Kingdom of God on earth (Revelation 20:4
).
A postmillennialist believes that Christ returns to establish the Kingdom on earth after the 1,000 years; an amillennialist doesn't believe that the Kingdom is coming at all; a premillennialist believes that Christ returns before the Millennium to set up His Kingdom as described in Revelation 20:4
.
In the century before Darby, Daniel Whitby pushed the philosophy of postmillennialism in England. "This interpretation maintains that present gospel agencies will root out evils until Christ will have a spiritual reign over the earth, which will continue for 1,000 years. Then the second advent of Christ will initiate judgment and bring to an end the present order" ( Unger's Bible Dictionary, 1988, "Millennium").
Postmillennialism gives life to the idea of "the social gospel" and the belief that the Church can actually bring about the Kingdom by its actions. It has led to many Christian churches involving themselves in politics on the premise that they are virtually obligated to lobby governments in the direction of godliness.
There were also amillennialists in Darby's day. He labored to correct both false teachings. Darby believed, rightly, that Jesus Christ would return to earth to establish and rule over the Kingdom of God. Darby was a premillennialist.
But in his zeal for countering error, he added another—the rapture theory. He believed he understood a new truth, an idea that had not been taught in the history of Christendom. While he was most likely sincere, sincerity alone does not make one right.
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20
, New International Version).
How do we know whether God inspired John Darby with new understanding? It actually would not be difficult to verify. Jesus said, "...the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35
), meaning Scripture agrees within itself.
If the rapture were truly a biblical doctrine, it would mesh with all other scriptural references to Christ's coming. But it does not stand up to that test, as we will see.
Scofield picks it up
"Darby's pre-tribulational view of the rapture was then picked up by a man named C.I. Scofield, who taught the view in the footnotes of his Scofield Reference Bible, which was widely distributed in England and America. Many Protestants who read the Scofield Reference Bible uncritically accepted what its footnotes said and adopted the [rapture doctrine], even though no Christian had heard of it in the previous 1800 years of Church history" ("Catholic Answers," http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp ).
Both Darby and Scofield claimed that the "day of Christ" refers to the rapture and that "the day of the Lord" refers to the actual second coming several years after the rapture.
In fact, "the day of the Lord" and "the day of Christ" both refer to Christ's return to the earth throughout the Bible—that is, to the time when He will step foot on earth. So also do the phrases, "the day of the Lord Jesus Christ" and "the Lord's Day." They all speak of His actual descent and setting His feet on this earth (Zechariah 14:1-4
). This fact further discredits this principal premise of Darby and Scofield. (See our booklet The Book of Revelation Unveiled for further information about this subject.)
The heart of the case offered by Darby, Scofield and their modern counterparts is based upon the English words "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17
.
Thin proof
For such a seemingly major doctrine, one might expect a weighty argument, but this is what is offered in The Scofield Bible's Reference Notes (1917 Edition): "...'caught up'—Not church saints only, but all bodies of the saved [that is, not only the living, but also the dead], of whatever dispensation, are included in the first resurrection... [It] is peculiarly the 'blessed hope' of the Church (cf) Matthew 24:42
; 25:13; Luke 12:36-48
; Acts 1:11
; Philippians 3:20, 21; Titus 2:11-13 ."
This offers surprisingly little information, considering how many accept the rapture doctrine based upon these notes. Additionally, all of the references he cited are about Christ's return and the believer's need to be ready for that event. None of them speak of a "near return" by Christ to snatch away believers.
Some rapturists today cite Acts 8:39
, saying it uses the same Greek word that is translated "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17
. They say that the fact the Spirit of God "caught [Philip] away" shows that 1 Thessalonians 4:17
means that the saints are caught away to heaven. Yet the Spirit did not transport Philip to heaven, but rather from one place on the earth to another.
The saints of 1 Thessalonians 4:17
, on the other hand, rise to meet the Lord in the air. (We'll cover more on this point in the next article in this series.)
The words "blessed hope" also often appear in rapture literature. In fact, "The Blessed Hope" is the name by which some denominations refer to the rapture doctrine. They take "blessed hope" from Titus 2:13
, where Paul writes, "looking for the blessed hope, and the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ."
The implication is that the word "appearance" conveys something secretive and sudden; that is, the rapture. Therefore, "blessed hope" becomes a sort of shorthand for the rapture in literature and films on the doctrine. A few other New Testament references that mention "the appearing of Christ" are also often cited, as if these scriptures strengthen their case.
But all of these are simply referring to Christ's coming, either the first time as a perfect sacrifice for sin, or the second time, as an invincible King.
Flawed foundation
The word rapture comes from the Latin rapere, meaning, "to seize" or "to abduct." It is translated from the Greek word that is rendered "caught up" in English Bibles today.
All advocates of the rapture agree that the main argument is based on 1 Thessalonians 4:17
. Here the argument stands or falls.
First, look at verse 17 in the New King James Version: "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."
The Greek verb for "caught up" is harpagesometha. Does it convey the sense of an abduction here? No, "[it] combines the ideas of force and suddenness seen in the irresistible power of God" (Leon Morris, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, Revised Edition, 1984, p. 94).
Why would Paul use such a strong word? Let's allow the Bible to speak for itself. The context of the subject begins in verse 13 and concludes in verse 11 of the next chapter. Paul wrote this section of the letter in answer to concerns of the local Christians.
As you read verse 13, you discover that Christians in Thessalonica were grieving over the unexpected deaths of members of their congregation.
Albert Barnes comments: "There seems some reason to suppose...that some of them believed that, though those who were dead would indeed rise again, yet it would be long after those who were living when the Lord Jesus would return had been taken to glory, and would always be in a condition inferior to them" ( Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, notes on 1 Thessalonians 4:13
).
Paul wrote that they should not grieve over this: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus [believers who had died]" (verse 14).
Was he responding to a worry about whether Christ would rescue believers from the Great Tribulation? No, nothing is said of this.
Nor is there anything in these verses that intimates Christ making a swooping pass by the earth to snatch off a few people to take them to heaven. These verses refer only to the doctrine of the second coming, at which time Jesus sets foot on the earth." IP: Logged |
athenegoddess
Knowflake Posts: 1584
From:
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted August 27, 2012 07:30 PM
deleteIP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 884
From: charlotte, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 27, 2012 07:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
The Bible doesn`t use the word "rapture" as some Christian sects believe it. The Latin Vulgate uses the word rapiemur, meaning to be caught up. There is a reference (paraphrased) about the saints of God being suddenly taken up into the air or as the catching up of Christians . But, rapture per se is not of the Bible.
So, guess I`m saying to those "left behind" , you will be in ots of good company
Yep, though Harpazo (roughly "come up here) is. To be less then diplomatic, have to wonder how much of this sort of uhmm.."gray area" teaching is more or less based on the idea that a multitude of bad preachers need to distract congregents from the reality that they do not know what they are talking about 90% of the time?
IP: Logged |
juniperb
Moderator Posts: 5859
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 27, 2012 08:09 PM
quote:
To be less then diplomatic, have to wonder how much of this sort of uhmm.."gray area" teaching is more or less based on the idea that a multitude of bad preachers need to distract congregents from the reality that they do not know what they are talking about 90% of the time?
Only 90%
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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost IP: Logged |
Padre35
Knowflake Posts: 884
From: charlotte, NC, US
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted August 27, 2012 08:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
[QUOTE]To be less then diplomatic, have to wonder how much of this sort of uhmm.."gray area" teaching is more or less based on the idea that a multitude of bad preachers need to distract congregents from the reality that they do not know what they are talking about 90% of the time?
Only 90%
[/QUOTE]
I know, I know..smh..
IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 39333
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted August 27, 2012 08:35 PM
The Bible says God will not pour out His wrath on his believers. The time of wrath is the second half of the Tribulation. That is agreed upon by all Bible scholars.
However, for most of the Bible scholars who seem credible, they believe that the true followers of Jesus will not see any of the Tribulation, which, officially starts when the Anti-Christ signs the peace treaty with Israel and she lives in unwalled villages, which has NEVER happened, again making Prophecy kind of clear in this case.------------------
Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal
http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/
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Lindaland
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