posted January 30, 2012 07:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
My Christian husband hates astrology so I deal with this, too. For better or worse I am an honest person, so I told him and have just put up with the consequences. He found my stockpile of astrology books and it vanished. But we didn't discuss it, so I actually count this as a victory- no fighting! And I am just buying more books
and hiding them in new places.

One I lucked out on was Linda Goodman's Relationship Signs (thrift shop, $.25, tiny book that's easy to hide!)

He and I have moon opposed Jupiter (his Libra moon, my Aries Jupiter) and Linda's reading for that made me laugh out loud.

Excerpt: "Look, so one of you goes to Synagogue and the other goes to daily mass, [b]or one is into astrology and the other is a born-again Christian....keep your opinions and beliefs to yourself because you are NOT, in all likelihood going to change your viewpoints- either of you. Therefore it's best to observe silence on painful subjects. Otherwise you might win the battle but lose the war."

Proof that astrology is true, RIGHT THERE.

But my condolences to you and anyone else who's dealing with this...it is SO HARD! [/B]

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Faith,

This really sounds like a challenge of whether you will be true to yourself and trust your intuition. Its not so much an astrology vs religion question as it is about being empowered.

I don't know that avoiding conflict is going to help you here. Your mate showed not only enormous disrespect to you for getting rid of your books, but actual disdain. You can understand that he is a victim of his own fears, but still stand up for yourself and refuse to allow him to do this. That would seem to be the real issue here.

posted January 31, 2012 02:08 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Hello people,

This came up on another thread and I wanted to talk about it more in-depth.

I've been interested in astrology for as long as I can remember. Seriously, I think I was five when I learned I am a Capricorn, and I paid close attention to that all my life.

In my early twenties I converted to orthodox Christianity. I was told that astrology was off limits (divination) and went along with that...I said to my pastor, "Well if you had told me astrology is not true, I couldn't be a Christian, because I know it's true. But if you are saying, 'Just don't pay attention to it,' then okay. I won't."

Years went by and my inner conflict just intensified, because my fundamentalist friends were so condemning of "witchcraft" and astrology. This drove me crazy, because I can often guess birthdays (and with some signs, I am always right), and I just cannot believe that it's the devil planting this information in my head. To me, certain sun signs are as obvious as the nose on a person's face. And the way people of certain signs interact is more or less predictable.
I wondered, How can I be sinning by just using my perception??

The quote that probably changed my life is this one from Gandhi, "There is no God higher than the truth." I thought about that a lot and realized that I cannot honestly subscribe to Christianity, the way it's practiced today. Astrology was actually what drew me out of religion.

Even though, after much research, I do NOT believe that the Bible condemns astrology. What I've left behind is the modern conception of the Bible and Christianity. I tell Christians that I am not Christian, just friendly towards Christianity, and they think I'm a heathen, but at least I am not misleading anyone.

How do you navigate the Christianity versus astrology problem?

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posted January 31, 2012 02:42 AM            

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Originally posted by Capriquarius:
(he was probably omniscient, which Christianity does not require of its followers).

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posted January 31, 2012 05:27 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Yes. Unfortunately.

Astrology, as in all forms, are equated with pagan witchcraft and distinctly regarded as works of the devil.

There is no discussion about astrology at church, and don't even try. The mobs will descend on you, tie you to the stake and set you on fire.

I'm not going to go into a whole treatise on Christianity, but astrology is uniformly condemned across all Christian denominations. There is not supposed to be any such thing as interpretation. Astrology means "you're going to hell."

Sorry that you have to deal with this. It has been an immense struggle with me.

For me, its even worse because I am "cheating" on my wife with astrology. I hate to think of the consequences if she finds out.

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posted January 31, 2012 05:32 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Of course they weren`t Christians, but they have a permanent positive place in the story of Jesus` birth and therefore are definitely a part of Christianity, or the story about its origin, even though they weren`t Christians.
BTW Jesus did not start out as Christian either.

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---you're absolutely right about Jesus not starting out as Christian--he was Jewish

Christians sometimes tend to conveniently forget that.

I personally get really annoyed with Christians who think that they are soooo holy and mighty and righteous. I'm Episcopalian, and in my denomination, we see our church as a hospital for sinners, not as this place where only good and perfect people are allowed to be. We also are a denomination that welcomes our LGBT brothers and sisters. And another thing that I love is that we advocate the use of scripture, tradition, and REASON. We celebrate the use of INTELLECT and we don't have to all agree on everything. We have a few core beliefs like the Nicene creed, but we do not order you to follow this big long list of little detailed things, and we allow room for disagreement on many issues, as well as being able to approach scripture from different angles. We're a place where conservatives, liberals, and moderates can all come together and worship, and it works for us. If you come to an Episcopal church, you'll find a lot of diversity in most of them.

Plus, the other thing that really annoys me about the holy roller types is that they conveniently pick-and-choose parts of Levitcus that they want to follow. Seem to notice that a lot of homophobes eat shellfish and wear certain blends of fabric and all of that. Find it funny how they consider that part obsolete, but hate the gays. Plus, there is a lot of debate about the whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing: some scholars have argued that the actual sin was inhospitality.

posted January 31, 2012 05:37 AM            

I agree that you should continue to study your spiritual path, but he needs to know that it is NOT all right to do that to you. How would he feel, after all, if you destroyed all of HIS bibles and other books?

posted January 31, 2012 05:41 AM            

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Well, that is one thing that is puzzling for me about Christianity.
Didn`t the three wise men / Magi follow the star - thus using astrology- to find the birthplace of Jesus?

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--you're right on that one, too: yes, they did

And, another interesting thing that my priest pointed out, there weren't necessarily three, and they might not have been all-male, either. It's tradition that there are three and they are men, but he said that it isn't actually written anywhere that it has to be that way.

I've also discussed with him how I see the Holy Spirit as female and he had no problem with that; since then, I've noticed that he uses the phrase "Him or Her" to describe that part of the trinity.

One of the other things that I forgot to mention that I love about my denomination: GENDER EQUALITY!!! :-)

My priest, whenever he recites this one prayer that lists the patriarchs, ALWAYS makes a point to include the matriarchs, too, even though they aren't officially part of the prayer. He himself also always makes a point to use both gender terms--"men" and "women" and to be very gender-inclusive. Our presiding bishop, too, is female, and we have other female priests and bishops.

*sorry for a minor tangent*

My point in mentioning these things is that a lot of Christians--the fundies and bible-thumping types--don't know their bible as well as they think that they do, and are more focused on rules, control, and regulations than they are on pure spirituality. Christianity should be more about following the spirit and example of Jesus than about complicated dogmas.

posted January 31, 2012 09:57 PM            

I use to go to mass every sunday...youth group weekly and many retreats...

But in three different retreats someone preached that if you are hot or cold God will vomit you. After the third time of hearing this I decided to never go to church again and stopped been christian completely.

I got tired of hearing them talk about new age and astrology and saying that people need to stay way from these things. I got tired of not having the freedom of exploring or believing what I want to believe in freely without been made feel I am bad in some way for been attracted to new age, astrology or Buddhism.

posted February 01, 2012 10:30 AM            

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I personally get really annoyed with Christians who think that they are soooo holy and mighty and righteous. I'm Episcopalian, and in my denomination, we see our church as a hospital for sinners, not as this place where only good and perfect people are allowed to be. We also are a denomination that welcomes our LGBT brothers and sisters.

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I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church, where there is no room for anything but fundamental views. There is no room for theological diversity or doctrinal latitude, and where there is no greater objective than wide evangelicalism. Makes the Roman Catholic church look positively left wing liberal. Anyone who disagrees is going to hell, period. No debate and no arguments.

Now that I'm older, I'm a United Methodist, but that's only because my wife and I live close to NYC where Southern Biblical ideology isn't too popular and there aren't too many pentecostal churches LOL

And about LGBT, those people aren't receiving communion in the church I grew up in.

This is an example of the theology:

"We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ instituted the ordinances of baptism and communion; that baptism is only to be administered upon profession of faith in Christ, by immersion, thereby declaring our faith in a crucified, buried and risen Savior; that communion is only for believers, is to be preceded by faithful self-examination, and is in remembrance of the Lord's death until He comes."

If you believe in astrology, you ain't getting communion, period. Astrology is "unjust."

This is what they say about the "unjust" :

"We believe that there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust; the just, having been redeemed by the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, to be with Him throughout eternity in glory; the unjust, having died impenitent and unreconciled to God, to eternal condemnation in Hell."

Come to think of it, I think my wife would forgive me if I were to cheat on her and sleep with other women because she would have compassion and the forgiving spirit of God.

posted February 04, 2012 11:54 AM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Amelia28,

Right. And I was a Calvinist who believed that it was a sin to even have the presumption to approach God with a prayer if you were not on good terms with Him.

I came out of Christianity in helter-skelter fashion, with some doctrines lingering longer than others. (Crazy, I know) I was still in this mindset, that praying can be sin if you're not a good Christian, when my father was dying.

So I barely even prayed for him. The one day I was walking in the forest overcome with sorrow and I prayed and cried in desperation. Immediately after that it started drizzling, even though it was very sunny out, and the thought in my head was like God saying, "I'm crying with you."

That may have been purely imaginary, but the older I get the more I realize how useful imaginations can be. Because I NEEDED some help that day.

I could go on and on about how problematic Christianity is. But truthfully I do still want some kind of salvation...some cooperation with a higher power. I don't think we can accomplish what we need to do on earth without that.

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Honestly, it needs to be said: people who judge you, torment you, and who are just basically assholes aren't REAL Christians.

A REAL Christian who followed the teachings of Jesus would give you the love and compassion that you deserve.

posted February 06, 2012 03:23 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
YTA,

I'm kind of in the same boat, but since we don't go to a church, our situation is different.

A few years ago, when I first "confessed" to my husband that I was interested in astrology again (as I was before I became a Christian), he went online to ask for advice, and the Christians there instructed him to pack up our children *immediately* and leave me.

I don't want to go into my whole story but I'm just glad he doesn't go to them for advice anymore.

You know what the bottom line is? It's this. When push comes to shove, he does not ever want to get divorced. He loves me. So other issues, even as bad as astrology, don't matter as much as love.

But if we were deeply enmeshed in a church where people were scaring my husband and ostracizing me, that truth might get lost. Frankly I can only take so much verbal abuse from well-meaning(?) Christians and being called a witch so I might be the one to walk.

I feel like this is probably THE most difficult challenge of my life, to remain true to myself without rocking the boat so badly my whole family suffers. Sometimes I think if I repress my real self too much, I'll get cancer and die just like my mother did, so for me it's almost like a life and death issue, to find my path and walk it.

Best wishes to you in your own search for truth and abiding love. Best wishes to your wife as well!

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Faith,

God Bless You!

I can assure you a true Christian would follow one's heart through a relationship with God, not because of the mob mentality in church.

Having said that, the Biblical scripture is practically irrefuatble. There is the Light and there is the Dark. Unfortunately, astrology is considered to fall on the Dark side. Now, I'm nobody to argue that it's not Dark but its Light. I have no such basis. What I suggest to you is to follow your heart and your religious conscience that resides within yourself.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself. I would never pack up and leave my wife even if she were to slap me every night and sleep with a different man. First of all, I love her. Second, I take my vows very seriously and believe in the sanctity of marriage.

If she were to want out, I would yield to her out of love. But I would never divorce her. And I would never marry again, under any circumstance. I marry once and once only. Err.. I also have this life and this life only, but I'm not going to start a debate with the atheist crowd.

I will pray for you and that God will lovingly guide you along whichever path you ought to take/choose.

posted February 06, 2012 10:46 PM            

Obviously I am having struggles myself, but let me present you the Christianity case. I do not portend to speak on behalf of the Christian faith, nor do I profess to be holy enough to recollect every verse in the Bible, but in the context of those who do not believe being quick to diss the Bible (and no offense intended by my remarks), I will even it out by presenting you Christianity's position (and its universal to all denominations, including Catholicism).

Although the heavens do declare the glory of God, they do not proclaim the Gospel. The Gospel was revealed to man by God Himself, who spoke through the prophets and came to Earth in the person of Jesus Christ.

Again this is the Christian view - The apparent arrangement of the stars in the sky is a function of the human brain, which tries to find patterns in everything it interprets. Depending upon one's background and society, different shapes of objects are seen as constellations. None of the constellations make such a clear picture that they could only be interpreted only one way.

Again, the Christian view - Studying the stars to attempt to get some message from them is called astrology, and is expressly prohibited in the Bible. Christians should not dabble in astrology, even if they don't really believe it is true. Christians are supposed to trust God with their future and follow Him in obedience to His word. It is clear that my behavior is in violation of the Bible.

Here is a mild rebuke:

Deuteronomy 4:19 (NIV): And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.

Here is the strong rebuke:

Isaiah 47:13-14 (NIV): All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you. Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by.

I can go on and on and on, but what is the point? The Isaiah 47 verse by itself specifically links astrology with fire, and we're not talking about roasting marshmellows.

Given her Southern Baptist Christian upbringing, my wife would tell me that I would be headed straight for hell along with the masses. I can't say that I fully blame her. The faith is such that you either believe or you don't believe. If you believe, you don't get to be selective on what you want to believe or choose to ignore.

I'm just laying this out for your benefit. I'm not some fundamental extremist on some sort of jihad against the non-Christian crowd, or condemning them - I don't have such inclinations nor is that Christian-like - but I thought that the Christian point of view should at least be adequately represented.

posted February 07, 2012 08:39 AM            

Hahaha. No I'm not Armenian. I'm Chinese, who also grew up as a Southern Baptist in Asia.

However, Christianity is Christianity, and the basic tenants are uniform across all denominations.

The common denominator for all people is that we live our present lives and worry about our near future. The difference between Christians and Non-Christians is that Christians believe in the far future and what is in store for eternity. And it doesn't involve reincarnation but it involves the Home in Glory Land called Heaven.

The Bible has worked for me for over four decades. I came to the Faith on my own without my parent's input nor approval. It just so happens that my wife, who is of a completely different ethnicity, culture and nationality, shares not only my faith but also my denomination and beliefs. The only thing is that she is more steadfast in the faith than I am, and I fall short.

The issue with religion - any religion - is that you are supposed to believe. Questioning isn't part of the game plan. Questioning is not having faith. I'm not saying that I agree with that, just that it is the way it is.

If I'm so faithful, I wouldn't be on Linda Land. Period. I'm honestly very ashamed of myself and I'm embarrassed each Sunday to walk into Church. I have fought this inner battle for the five months I have been on this forum.

I say it outright now. Astrology is fundamentally incompatible with Christianity. Having said that I have made good friends with several very admirable people - they happen to be women, and I'm not going to ditch them.

Prior to coming to Linda Land, I would still have told you that I'm a Capricorn, and that I fit the sterotype mold of a serious, hardworking, ambitious person. I've never been some goody two-shoes, and I'm not about to become a flipping hypocrite.

Like I said, I fundamentally fall short of the Glory of God, and I humbly suggest that all people do. That is the basic tenant of Christianity. So, the next time you hear a Christian tell you how perfect they are, suggest that they step in front of the mirror and worship themselves on bended knee.

Christians do not tell other people's spouses to take children and leave. Period. That's not Christian-like behavior. I don't like to dwell in discussions about satan, so I'll leave that alone. Yes. Christianity is Light and dark. Light denotes Christ and being God-like. The rest is the dark.

Love is found in 1st Corithians Chapter 13 Verses 4 to 7.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

TELL ME WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT LOVE CONDEMNS OTHERS AND TAKES FAMILY MEMBERS AWAY? What those idiots told your husband is not Christian-like and the ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Its ok to be flawed. Nobody is perfect. The Bible says that only God is perfect, so anybody who tells you they're perfect have got to be god, so they can take a flying leap off a tall bridge and show us by trying to save themselves.

By the way, my wife is a full Leo, with Sun, Mars and Mercury.