posted August 06, 2012 05:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Well, I wasn't asking why Ego and Superiority are listed, my issue is with the listing of "competition", because you said such can result in dominating/ego issues (of that I'm not denying, but am simply saying such is a separate issue)

Again I'm deeply against the culling of competition, such can lead to stagnant conditions with nothing to strive for...

I'm all for fairness and humility, but humanity must always reach for the stars and beyond, least ye wallow in the mud for all eternity... Competition is often the facilitator of such -nods-

---

Depends, what I mean by that is when one does "win" the competition, or enjoys the fruit of competing, is one then bound to be narcissitic, or alturistic?

The mentality carries over to the point of "I'm the fittest, I survived, and excelled, why should I care or diminish myself by dissipating wealth to those who lost"?

posted August 06, 2012 05:23 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by juniperb:
Padre, you seem to share a keen interest in sound so may I suggest you read the book

---

I'm more interested in the transmission of the Divine to mankind, and the various forms it can, and does take.

For example, a Cathedral will have stained glass windows depicting the various acts of Christ, these are not for decoration, they are to transmit to those who may not be able to read or what have you.

posted August 06, 2012 05:30 PM            

quote:

---

I'm more interested in the transmission of the Divine to mankind, and the various forms it can, and does take.

---

Perfect, the book covers transmission . In fact, that`s what it`s about but leans toward sound/music. One can follow the thread and see how/why other mediums are direct results of Divinely Transmission

posted August 06, 2012 05:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Padre35:

The mentality carries over to the point of "I'm the fittest, I survived, and excelled, why should I care or diminish myself by dissipating wealth to those who lost"?

---

That has little to do with the competition itself, but everything to do with the nature of the competitor. But to say oh... we shouldn't compete because the winner might be an ass, is denying everyone the chance to compete and better themselves, regardless if they win or lose.

Ultimately everyone gains something, to learn to lose admirably is just as important as learning how be a graceful winner -nods-

You can do neither without the "Competition"

------------------

posted August 06, 2012 05:33 PM            

quote:

---

The Christian fundamentalists I've chatted with are utterly opposed to dance, however, they then ignore the examples of dance being used as worship found in the OT.

---

Indeed, quite unlike the sufi Darvesh`s .

posted August 06, 2012 05:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by juniperb:
Indeed, quite unlike the sufi Darvesh`s .

---

Indeed, iirc Sufi Dervishes were the first real mystical dancers in Islam.

Fundamentalists, of whatever stripe, follow a very predictable pattern.

posted August 06, 2012 05:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
That has little to do with the competition itself, but everything to do with the nature of the competitor. But to say oh... we shouldn't compete because the winner might be an ass, is denying everyone the chance to compete and better themselves, regardless if they win or lose.

Ultimately everyone gains something, to learn to lose admirably is just as important as learning how be a graceful winner -nods-

You can do neither without the "Competition"

---

Objectifying competition does not make the consequences of such an approach any less impactful.

posted August 06, 2012 05:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Padre35:
Objectifying competition does not make the consequences of such an approach any less impactful.

One can use "the ends justify the means" endlessly, after all, it is a competition..right?

---

So you agree with the Cherokee Elder anecdote that objective competition is evil...

Thats what you would teach your own children...?

Surely to teach children to compete, but to be graceful and humble even in victory is the better option as to never compete at all...

posted August 06, 2012 05:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
So you agree with the Cherokee Elder anecdote that objective competition is evil...

Thats what you would teach your own children...?

Surely to teach children to compete, but to be graceful and humble even in victory is the better option as to never compete at all...

---

No, what I teach my children is to give your best, win or lose, if you win and come into your own, be gracious where and when you can and always remain true to yourself and your principles.

If you lose, then learn from it and congratulate the winner as one day you will win.

Competition is not "evil" doing anything and everything to gain advantage will lead to evil sooner or later.

posted August 06, 2012 05:59 PM            

I wouldnt say competition is evil, but in my mind boring. Because I don't look at people and make comparisons or think too much focus should be put on better or worse than. Or lablelling people as winners and losers. Can't we appreciate individuality and work together in harmony? Appreciate people for who they are and the talents they have, while being happy with your own?

The only person I want to compete with - or DO compete with is myself. I'm doing what I was born to do here and trying to get better and better because I like growth. Not to outdo anyone else.

Just some passing thoughts on the subject (not directed at anyone in particular). That to most probably sound too Pollyanna-ish. I have to get to some things here now, so might not reply right away.

posted August 06, 2012 06:18 PM            

quote:

---

Padre35 : Competition is not "evil"

---

So why is it in the anecdote, misleading the children...

I'm not talking about the morality of the competitors.

T:

quote:

---

What if you taught kids there is no need to compete with others because everyone comes with a special purpose?

---

I believe that's doing well in china, the special purpose is making iPhones.

------------------

posted August 06, 2012 06:22 PM            

quote:

---

I believe that's doing well in china, the special purpose is making iPhones.

---

Apples and oranges. T is speaking of Spiritual talents or specifically, Purpose.

Each thought basis is in interpretation again One can interpret her post in the material/physical way or the Spiritual. That`s rather like I spoke of a few posts ago. Levels or layers of interpretation and how it manifests into beliefs/ideas .

posted August 06, 2012 06:26 PM            

And keep in mind, the culture of the Cherokee is quite different from most cultures, would it make more sense to have a Tribe rife with conflict over competition?

And, the Cherokee DID compete, as one of the so named "civilized" tribes, they had far more structure then most tribes.

Back on point, the OT is one of the very few Scriptures that deal with the issues of Tribes and Clan Hierarchy, which goes to the point being made earlier about similar themes in various writings.

posted August 06, 2012 06:32 PM            

Lei, I think we are talking from completely different mindsets.

I'll try to help you understand what I'm truly saying another time. Too tired right now.

posted August 06, 2012 06:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by juniperb:
Apples and oranges. T is speaking of Spiritual talents or specifically, Purpose.

---

What, you don't see how a person could take a young child who knows nothing of the outside world, and is born the iPhone factory/city. That their "special" spiritual purpose is building these lovely little phones for Americans...

posted August 06, 2012 06:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
What, you don't see how a person could take a young child who knows nothing of the outside world, and is born the iPhone factory/city. That their "special" spiritual purpose is building these lovely little phones for Americans...

---

I believe that is veering off into a whole new topic....or two, now.

posted August 06, 2012 06:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
What, you don't see how a person could take a young child who knows nothing of the outside world, and is born the iPhone factory/city. That their "special" spiritual purpose is building these lovely little phones for Americans...

---

That is the fruit of competition, however, if those same children who are building Iphones feed the family including the grandparents who are impoverished.

Would that be mankind acting towards a higher nature?

In the OT, Ruth and Naomi featured what was meant by total competition being counterproductive.

Ruth's husband passed on, Naomi was her mother in law, Ruth refused to leave Naomi and used to go to Boaz's fields to garner the gleanings from the edge of the harvest.

She was attracted to Boaz and needed Ruth's advice how to land him as she was a foreigner, and it all worked out.

Point being, what may not make "competitive sense" at the time, leads to things that are better as mankind in our limited understanding cannot see the outcome of all things.

Which is one of the major thrusts of virtually every writing based upon a Faith in the unseen.

posted August 06, 2012 07:01 PM            

We are Borg, resistance is futile!

No I'm not overreacting, just pointing out the possible long term results of suppressed competition...

And yes the opposite of this is Humanity possibly obliterating itself in competition without a moral compass... least Id die free lol (And ofc be born again on some other craptastic planet)

Freeeeeeedom!

Ultimately I'm hoping there is an option 3,

------------------

posted August 06, 2012 07:02 PM            

Lei_kuei, I have read most of your posts through out LL. I always find them interesting and well stated.

For the purpose (no pun intended ) of this thread, I am Working from a Spiritual perspective and not the material/physical. We are going in circles with no middle so I will let it rest with this post.

posted August 06, 2012 07:15 PM            

And... I was just pondering what level of tin foil I can handle, how many levels there are and if they would look good on me as a hat

posted August 06, 2012 07:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
[b]T@Perhaps, but given the level of hostility towards "evil" competition, how long will it be before we are all building iPhones for... "whoever" as our special purpose lol...

We are Borg, resistance is futile!

No I'm not overreacting, just pointing out the possible long term results of suppressed competition.

And yes the opposite of this is Humanity possibly obliterating itself in competition without a moral compass... least Id die free lol (And ofc be born again on some other craptastic planet)

Freeeeeeedom!

Ultimately I'm hoping there is an option 3,

[/B]

---

There is an "option 3" rational competition, the realization that "we" are all interconnected, and while suffering is a part of life, intentionally inflicting suffering is a horde of hairless apes in suits engaging in cruelty for it's own sakes.

For example, the OP mentions the 3 Abrahamic texts, each and everyone of them has the admonition to be generous to the impoverished.

Of course such is lost in "pure" competition even though charity is compulsory in Islam, and Christians are admonished to share their bread with the poor, and Hebrews are admonished that giving to the poor is like giving to their creator, the Most High, as he ultimately created everyone.

Even the Dhamma Pada directs that charity in this life leads to many friends in the hereafter.

Such is lost in fundamentalist thinking, werein you deserve what happens to you.

posted August 06, 2012 07:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
I apologize for somewhat hijacking the thread.... did I mention I was "That" precocious child that drives the elder to insanity...

---

Nah Bro, legit questions IMO, curiosity is a sign of a highly developed mind.

A Fundamentalist would never bother to question what they were told by those in Authority, they simply perform.

posted August 06, 2012 07:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Padre35:
There is an "option 3" rational competition

---

Sigh, this has been my point all along, seems you wouldn't accept that until you yourself wrote it...

Not complaining, I enjoyed the debate... but you already knew that lol

------------------