posted April 25, 2013 12:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I have a very hard time following you, Pixie. If you care to talk to me, could you break it down into the essential points? Thanks!

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The core explanation (explained earlier, so don't pretend I'm just pulling this out of thin air) is that the Christians who turn guns into a religious symbol see a war coming with the godless heathens as their power wanes, and they want to both show support with fellow member's of "God's army" and nudge other Christians into taking up the fighting spirit. If they don't then God will destroy them right along with the rest of us (and that means America falls).

And the reason I believe it's much more common in the South is because the wounds of the Civil War haven't fully healed up and they're already used to seeing the nation as "2 nations in one" as the Christians who have promoted guns as part of their religion do so they're much more open about incorporating the worldview and turning guns into a religious symbol to promote the idea of resistance, even belligerence (plus God and guns just fits in so neatly anyway that it's almost a given and thus less likely to seem strange promoting both at the same time).

posted April 25, 2013 02:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
The Ethical problem for a trigger happy Christian comes when fellow Christians like Timothy McVeigh or James Holmes or Jim Jones or Ted Bundy do the killings than a Muslim terrorist. Whose house to bomb when 30,000 Christians in America are killed each year by fellow American Christians? Mostly by the Guns that held in the hand that is not holding the Bible? And whose houses to bomb to punish the crimes of the Christian Catholic Priests who have sexually abused hundreds of thousands of Christian children?

Ethics Ethics Ethics....

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posted April 25, 2013 02:34 AM            

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Originally posted by SpooL:
Jhiad or terrorism isn't a "christian thing" Ethnic cleansing/genocide is.

How is the murder of 6 million people during the Holocaust and the war in Bosnia any better then Jhiad?

At least with Jhiad its isolated groups of Islamic fundamentalists.

For example there was a terrorism plot in Canada this week, but police were tipped off by the Iman and members of the muslin community.

Clearly its isolated radical Islamic groups. http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/22228-muslims-foil-terror-plot-imam-tip-led-to-arrests/

With Ethnic cleansing there are more deaths evolved, communities and families decimated. Pope John Paul is the only pope to apologize on behalf of all Christians for decades of persecuting other faiths.

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Seriously?

Do you have any idea what the Patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox church had to say during all of that?

And of course, such erudite views realizes that Christians also went to the death camps?

Ever hear of Rev. Niemoller?

Here is a bit of a primer:

quote:

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First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

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posted April 25, 2013 09:02 AM            

Timothy McVeigh was raised Roman Catholic, turned agnostic but insisted he held the "core" beliefs of Christianity. He asked for and received Last Rites before his execution. His commitment was to avenge the Branch Dravidian's at Waco. There for, the label Christian.

Martin Niemöller knew persecution well. First as a perpetrator then one persecuted.
This gives one Faith that all can their turn tide.

quote:

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Hitler espoused the importance of Christianity to German nationality and Christianity's role in a renewal of national morality and ethics, leading Niemöller to enthusiastically welcome the Third Reich. Niemöller later confessed that even Hitler's antisemitism reflected a more extreme version of his own prejudice at that time.

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Sword has a literal meaning as a weapon and sword in the Mystical word is truth. I believe we agree Christ was a Mystic? As such, most of his oft repeated parables and word usage are of the Mystical connotation. As such, I do not see the Disciples marching forth, weapon/ sword in hand.

posted April 25, 2013 09:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:

As for the ethical question of firearms ownership among Christians, the NT injunction "..how many swords do you have among you?.."

Christ knew what the world was, he did not send his disciples into the world disarmed, quite the contrary.

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Some sense. Praise you, Brother

In all seriousness, yesterday, I cried. Our country is going down and these people are so blinded and arrogant at the same time.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 25, 2013 09:15 AM            

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Since this might prove useful in both forums I'm double posting (one in each), but in the future I'm gonna try to keep theology and the like to one and the politics to the other (granted, I'm sure the line is going to be real hard to tell sometimes) with the notable exception that if one turns into the other then I'll keep with that thread as it would be very confusing otherwise.

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posted April 25, 2013 09:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
The core explanation (explained earlier, so don't pretend I'm just pulling this out of thin air) is that the Christians who turn guns into a religious symbol see a war coming with the godless heathens as their power wanes, and they want to both show support with fellow member's of "God's army" and nudge other Christians into taking up the fighting spirit. If they don't then God will destroy them right along with the rest of us (and that means America falls).

And the reason I believe it's much more common in the South is because the wounds of the Civil War haven't fully healed up and they're already used to seeing the nation as "2 nations in one" as the Christians who have promoted guns as part of their religion do so they're much more open about incorporating the worldview and turning guns into a religious symbol to promote the idea of resistance, even belligerence (plus God and guns just fits in so neatly anyway that it's almost a given and thus less likely to seem strange promoting both at the same time).

Since this might prove useful in both forums I'm double posting (one in each), but in the future I'm gonna try to keep theology and the like to one and the politics to the other (granted, I'm sure the line is going to be real hard to tell sometimes) with the notable exception that if one turns into the other then I'll keep with that thread as it would be very confusing otherwise.

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Nah, this is a fringe element. I lived in NC for a long time. There are fringe elements there, but true Bible believers don't see it that way.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 25, 2013 10:13 AM            

Half this country hates Obama and what he is doing to us i.e stripping us of our rights. The Bible believer agrees with the Constitution that God gave man rights and the Constitution is there to make sure that a despot does not take them away.

Many Bible believer see Obama et al taking rights away and many would fight for their rights. We hope to God that Obama does not take the 2nd Amendment but if he does I think many Christians would fight back. So, this may answer your question

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 25, 2013 11:12 AM            

quote:

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Sword has a literal meaning as a weapon and sword in the Mystical word is truth. I believe we agree Christ was a Mystic? As such, most of his oft repeated parables and word usage are of the Mystical connotation. As such, I do not see the Disciples marching forth, weapon/ sword in hand.

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The esoteric meaning of 'sword' is longstanding and mutualy agreed upon in all mystical schools I'm familiar with.

posted April 25, 2013 02:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Good morning Padre,

Timothy McVeigh was raised Roman Catholic, turned agnostic but insisted he held the "core" beliefs of Christianity. He asked for and received Last Rites before his execution. His commitment was to avenge the Branch Dravidian's at Waco. There for, the label Christian.

Martin Niemöller knew persecution well. First as a perpetrator then one persecuted.
This gives one Faith that all can their turn tide.

[QUOTE]Hitler espoused the importance of Christianity to German nationality and Christianity's role in a renewal of national morality and ethics, leading Niemöller to enthusiastically welcome the Third Reich. Niemöller later confessed that even Hitler's antisemitism reflected a more extreme version of his own prejudice at that time.

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Sadly, all religious doctrines, from the Christian inquisition to Jihadist today,are a murderous lot. BOTH have dirty hands and in a world of actual justice, to make one the larger demon is absurd.
Murder in the name of "God" is a heinous thought or deed, rather a Rabbi says it or a Jihadist.

Call it ethnic cleansing or jhiad terrorism ,it equates to murder.
"Thou shall not kill"
I uphold this .[/QUOTE]

Heh, let me find it:

"Science is my god"

posted April 25, 2013 02:11 PM            

Hitler never attended a church after confirmation at 13, he saw catholicism or religion in general, as merely a tool to support state control.

AS most tyrants have, this is but one of the host or reasons why I'm more of a Christian Anarchist.

As such, I see nothing wrong, or unbiblical about firearms ownership, in fact, the injunctions in the scripture point the opposite way.

posted April 25, 2013 02:39 PM              

i don't think bloodthirsty christians are any worse(or better) than jihadist muslims but i think those who hate ALL muslims are just as bad as the nazis.

the actual killers represent a small percentage of either group. however during specific times both have been supported by the lack of protest from the majority.

posted April 25, 2013 04:48 PM            

quote:

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As such, I see nothing wrong, or unbiblical about firearms ownership, in fact, the injunctions in the scripture point the opposite way.

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Nor do I. I own many. It is people who kill not guns.

I agree the Bible/Scripture advocates the use of physical weapons. To say the Christ did is something I would not agree with.

A Christian stands for the Christ and his Teachings, not necessarily for Biblical Scripture. IMHO
Maybe a hair splitting point but ....

posted April 25, 2013 06:15 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Just to be clear, I'm NOT asking, "How can someone believe in God but still use guns." Rather, I'm asking about the passion of equating them and loving them both as part of a package deal that a great many do (especially in the South).

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quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
my Christian family only considers guns to be tools without treating them like a fetish as many other Christians do

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quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
So when some Californians encountered it in Texas while picking me up they were puzzled by how many sported stickers (like this) and the like that praised both at the same time

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As for the above, the sticker was common but there were also shirts, posters, belt buckles and the like that they also saw with the same sentiments. And they also heard Lynyrd Skynyrd (some in my family like them) while there, and very likely the song I quoted and the vid I linked to.

And to repeat in different words, it's not like there are "pro-God, pro-car" (which is another symbol of independence, and could be seen as thumbing their nose at environmentalists, aka "watermelons" to these types, which is to say green on the outside, red/commie on the inside), and they certainly seem to support mandatory drug tests (despite that peeing in a cup on demand strikes me as a violation of the 4rth amendment, against unreasonable search & seizure without a warrant, and 5th amendment, that is protection against made to testify against one's self), so I don't see the gun as representing "constitutional interests" or "rights come from God" (it essentially seems they only favor the 2nd amendment, and also the 10th when convenient), especially not when amendments they propose are in the opposite view (that is increasing the power of the government instead of individual liberty) such as the FMA or obligating the government to go after flag burners.

posted April 25, 2013 06:59 PM            

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I don't see the gun as representing "constitutional interests" or "rights come from God" (it essentially seems they only favor the 2nd amendment, and also the 10th when convenient), especially not when amendments they propose are in the opposite view (that is increasing the power of the government instead of individual liberty) such as the FMA or obligating the government to go after flag burners.

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They are a breed unto themselves. Fundie right wing Christians that amalgamate their own version of a. what the Constitution means b. what the Bible says c. how they apply them to selves but not others.

To try and get an answer is going to be as difficult as pulling hens teeth. Mostly because they truely don`t know them selves.

posted April 27, 2013 09:42 AM            

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Everytime I open this thread a vivid image of the Theban Legion flashes across my mind. Like 'sword', I suppose you could make of that what you will.

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