posted April 29, 2013 11:43 AM              

It does seem the "lights and sounds" or bells and whistles, are there to provide consolation and encouragement to the souls whose devotion would flag without them. Then again, they seem also to come through individuals who can pass them on to the wider community of seekers thirsty for visions.

posted April 30, 2013 12:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
Yes, Sri Ramakrishna followed a variety of paths, but not simultaneously. He devoted himself utterly to whichever path he was on at the time. I thnk this is what we are both saying.

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Yes.

quote:

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It does seem the "lights and sounds" or bells and whistles, are there to provide consolation and encouragement to the souls whose devotion would flag without them. Then again, they seem also to come through individuals who can pass them on to the wider community of seekers thirsty for visions.[/B]

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quote:

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I would agree that God does not appear until we want him wholeheartedly, but, then, that wholehearted wanting is perhaps the last stage on any path. It's like saying, you cannot see the movie until you can smell the popcorn. Something like that.[/B]

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posted April 30, 2013 06:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
. . .
It does seem the "lights and sounds" or bells and whistles, are there to provide consolation and encouragement to the souls whose devotion would flag without them.

Then again, they seem also to come through individuals who can pass them on to the wider community of seekers thirsty for visions.

I would agree that God does not appear until we want him wholeheartedly, but, then, that wholehearted wanting is perhaps the last stage on any path. It's like saying, you cannot see the movie until you can smell the popcorn. Something like that.

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My VenusTaurus LOOOVES the 'smells & bells'.... They are a great way to "access" a state of consciousness using 'conditioning' response? Like remembering 'where' that nonlocal state is using neural responses?

We DO need our bodies and brain to be in good condition for the ethereal to be "brought down" to be used on Earth... Our nervous system is like tuning station, antenna system. People who "can" have religious experience can do so because they have the "radio equipment" enabled. Some people cannot even get a 'whiff' of what that's like because they need 'the brain' in order to connect and bridge over to spirit. Spirit exists without the brain, but you need the brain to experience the nonlocal reality of Spirit. You need to be initiated in order to perceive 'in the spirit' because spiritual things are spiritually discerned... hence, 'must be born again', etc, etc, etc, ~ whatever!

(*grin* I don't want to be disrespectful, AND it's sooo hard to use 'language' that is associated with 'religions'.... so, please, I'm very gently sorry about that, okay?.... *heart full of love* )

Spiritual practices.... whatever ones you use... help you 'engage' and achieve your heart-felt desires.

In Carmelite literature, [refs to John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila], sometimes the Soul can't "feel" the goosebumps and exhilaration and ecstacy state because it's being 'trained in' to itself by another pathway---- bypasses your 'smells & bells' Venus! ~ But if you DO get "blocked" it can be SOOOO disheartening....

THAT'S WHY WE NEED FRIENDS!! To keep us going.... yay lindaland!!!!

(music) That's What Love Is For (Amy Grant) [4:19] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W99G6FlRpfA

Just because you don't "feel" spiritual, does NOT mean you aren't growing, or that God [Universe,etc~~] doesn't care! Or that you 'fell of the wagon' as a devotee, necessarily.....

A guru, teacher, confessor, astrologer-priest (grinning) is NICE...... but we have to be careful NOT to ascribe our 'growing' to "that person" ..... The person is an AGENT for us, and we can feel soooo grateful that we are a part of their lives, but take CARE that you don't mix-up "the idol" with "the energy source"....

I observe in Christian AND eastern religions how the Leader can start "believing" the worship that is coming at him or her! Easy to be tempted into thinking that "you, the body" are the source..... Maybe yeah, you are channeling the inspiration, it's coming through the individual, but "you" [Leader] ain't it-and-a-bag-of-chips~!

I have seen Leaders who try to "make sure" that all the glamor that comes to them is NOT being given by devotee as 'worship'...

I know that some charismatic church pastors INSIST that "it comes through the Head, and flows to YOU".......

Hmmm? Well, if that's the case, then it seems that maybe those pastors had "the lucky-buck $" stop "here"... in their Head and House they live in..... Conspicuous Consumption!! They live like fat hogs, while people in their churches struggle desperately!! Paupers, tithing their welfare monies to the church!!--- then the poor get blamed for not "believing" or it's their fault (for EVERY reason that points the other direction of the RICH folk in that church)....

[note to self: 'nuff said mirage-ji :LMAO: *sometimes even I have to live with me!!, sheesh!*

posted May 03, 2013 12:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
I would agree that God does not appear until we want him wholeheartedly, but, then, that wholehearted wanting is perhaps the last stage on any path. It's like saying, you cannot see the movie until you can smell the popcorn. Something like that.

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posted May 04, 2013 08:43 AM              

‎"There is gold buried in your heart, but you are not yet aware of it. It is covered with a thin layer of earth... God can be seen, one can talk to Him, as I am talking to you."

‎"Brahman and Śakti are identical. If you accept the one, you must accept the other. It is like fire and its power to burn. If you see the fire, you must recognize its power to burn also. You cannot think of fire without its power to burn, nor can you think of the power to burn without fire. You cannot conceive of the sun's rays without the sun, nor can you conceive of the sun without its rays. You cannot think of the milk without the whiteness, and again, you cannot think of the whiteness without the milk. Thus one cannot think of Brahman without Śakti, or of Śakti without Brahman. One cannot think of the Absolute without the Relative, or of the Relative without the Absolute."

‎"Yearning is all you need in order to realize Him."

‎"Can you weep for Him with intense longing of heart? Men shed a jugful of tears for the sake of their children, for their wives, or for money. But who weeps for God? So long as the child remains engrossed with its toys, the mother looks after her cooking and other household duties. But when the child no longer relishes the toys, it throws them aside and yells for its mother. Then the mother takes the rice-pot down from the hearth, runs in haste, and takes the child in her arms."

‎"Chant the name of God and sing his glories unceasingly; and keep holy company. Now and then one should visit holy men and devotees of God. If a man lives in the world and busies himself day and night with worldly duties and responsibilities, he cannot give his mind to God. So it's important to go into solitude from time to time, and think about God. When the plant is young, it should be fenced on all sides. Unless there's a fence around it, goats and cattle may eat it up."

posted May 04, 2013 09:10 AM            

Yes indeed. But let us not agree. We will argue or fight. Then perhaps more will join in. Because now it looks like only two of us are at it.

It was nice to read Sri Ramkrishna's parables after a very long time. The last two are one of my favourates. His simple and lucid style was so loving and apt isn't it?

posted May 04, 2013 09:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Love&Light:
Once a disciple asks his Guru, "Why is it so difficult to find God?" To which his Guru replies that the real reason of why people don't find HIM is they don't actually want him. Not from the bottom of their heart.

When i heard this story when i was younger, say in college days i thought that this was b******t but over the years as i have grown and experienced and observed life i have learnt that it rings true. Do you really want GOD?

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Another perspective

Does the Sufi seek the presence of God? Does he depend upon the mediation of any prophet or master? To this also the answer is no. He does not seek the presence of God, because where there is a presence there is duality, and his aim is unity. In unity there can be no presence. He does not seek to attach himself to any master for ever. He has no wish to go to heaven, because he sees that heaven is everywhere.

Once imagination has helped a man to bring the presence of God before him, God is awakened in his own heart. Then before he utters a word it is heard by God; when he is praying in a room, he is not alone: he is there with God. To him God is not in the highest heaven, but beside him, before him, in him; then heaven is on earth and earth is heaven; then no one is as living to him as God, as intelligible to him as God, and the names and forms before his consciousness are all covered by Him. Then every word of prayer he utters is a living word. It not only brings a blessing to him, but it brings blessings to all those around him. This kind of prayer is the only true way of praying, and by it the object that is to be fulfilled by prayer is accomplished.

What then is his aim? He seeks to reach that experience in which there is no experience in the usual sense of the word. There are two tendencies: the tendency towards manifestation which has brought us to this world of variety, and the tendency towards inactivity which takes us back to the state from which we have come. Perfection is not in the unmanifested alone, nor in manifestation alone, but in the union of both.
Hazrat Inayat Khan

rest here >>>>>>>>>> http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VIIIa/VIIIa_1_3.htm

posted May 04, 2013 11:48 AM            

The wise man knows that he knows what he knows, and knows that he knows nothing at all.

posted May 05, 2013 01:14 AM            

www.american-buddha.com

An excerpt -

Since these proficients are still at a very low stage of progress, and follow their own nature closely in the intercourse and dealings which they have with God, because the gold of their spirit is not yet purified and refined, they still think of God as little children, and speak of God as little children, and feel and experience God as little children, even as Saint Paul says, because they have not reached perfection, which is the union of the soul with God. In the state of union, however, they will work great things in the spirit, even as grown men, and their works and faculties will then be Divine rather than human, as will afterwards be said. To this end God is pleased to strip them of this old man and clothe them with the new man, who is created according to God, as the Apostle says, in the newness of sense. He strips their faculties, affections and feelings, both spiritual and sensual, both outward and inward, leaving the understanding dark, the will dry, the memory empty and the affections in the deepest affliction, bitterness and constraint, taking from the soul the pleasure and experience of spiritual blessings which it had aforetime, in order to make of this privation one of the principles which are requisite in the spirit so that there may be introduced into it and united with it the spiritual form of the spirit, which is the union of love. All this the Lord works in the soul by means of a pure and dark contemplation, as the soul explains in the first stanza.

Original Spanish Poem
San Juan de la Cruz
En una noche oscura

En una noche oscura,
con ansias, en amores inflamada,
¡oh dichosa ventura!,
salí sin ser notada,
estando ya mi casa sosegada;

a escuras y segura
por la secreta escala, disfrazada,
¡oh dichosa ventura!,
a escuras y encelada,
estando ya mi casa sosegada;

en la noche dichosa,
en secreto, que naide me veía
ni yo miraba cisa,
sin otra luz y guía
sino la que en el corazón ardía.

Aquesta me guiaba
más cierto que la luz del mediodía
adonde me esperaba
quien yo bien me sabía
en parte donde naide parecía.

¡Oh noche que guiaste!
¡oh noche amable más que la alborada!;
¡oh noche que juntaste,
Amado con amada,
amada en el Amado transformada!

En mi pecho florido,
que entero para él solo se guardaba,
allí quedó dormido,
y yo le regalaba,
y el ventalle de cedros aire daba.

El aire del almena,
cuando yo sus cabellos esparcía,
con su mano serena
en mi cuello hería,
y todos mis sentidos suspendía.

Quedéme y olvidéme,
el rostro recliné sobre el Amado;
cesó todo y dejéme,
dejando mi cuidado
entre las azucenas olvidado.

Translation

St. John of the Cross
On a dark night

On a dark night,
Kindled in love with yearnings
--oh, happy chance!--
I went forth without being observed,
My house being now at rest.

In darkness and secure,
By the secret ladder, disguised
--oh, happy chance!--
In darkness and in concealment,
My house being now at rest.

In the happy night,
In secret, when none saw me,
Nor I beheld aught,
Without light or guide,
save that which burned in my heart.

This light guided me
More surely than the light of noonday
To the place where he
(well I knew who!) was awaiting me
-- A place where none appeared.

Oh, night that guided me,
Oh, night more lovely than the dawn,
Oh, night that joined
Beloved with lover,
Lover transformed in the Beloved!

Upon my flowery breast,
Kept wholly for himself alone,
There he stayed sleeping,
and I caressed him,
And the fanning of the cedars made a breeze.

The breeze blew from the turret
As I parted his locks;
With his gentle hand
He wounded my neck
And caused all my senses to be suspended.

posted May 08, 2013 03:17 PM            

You included everyone!... {{hug}}

posted May 18, 2013 11:05 PM            

The book is about Paolo's pilgrimage to Santiago and the dialogue is between him and his guide Petrus.

I (Paolo) said that he (Petrus) had been nasty the night before in his judgements of the people at the party, and he was surprised at me. He said that what we had talked about was no more or less than we had ourselves experienced in our personal lives. All of us seek eros, and then when eros wants to turn itself into philos, we think that love is worhtless. We don't see that it is philos that leads us to the highest form of love, agape.
"Tell me more about agape," i said.
Petrus answered that agape cannot really be discussed; it has to be lived. That afternoon, if possible, he wanted to show me one of the faces of agape. But in order for this to happen, the universe, as in the business of fishing, would have to collaborate so that every thing went well.

"The messenger helps you, but there is one thing that is beyond the messenger's control, beyond his desires, and beyond you, as well."
"What is that?"
"The divine spark. What we call luck."
When the sun had begun to set, we resumed our walking. The Jacobean route passed through some vineyards and fields that were completely deserted at that time of day. We crossed the main road - also deserted - and started again through the woods. In the distance, I could see the Saint Lorenzo peak, the highest point in the kingdom of Castile. I had changed a great deal since I had met Petrus for the first time near Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port. Brazil and the business deals that i had been worried about had practically vanished from my mind. The only important thing for me now was my objective. I discussed it every night with Astrian (Paolo's guide who he could invoke with the help of a ritual taught to him by Petrus)who was becoming clearer, and clearer for me. I was able to see him, seated at my side, any time I tried. I learned that he had a nervour tic in right eye and that he had the habit of smiling disdainfully every time I repeated something as evidence that I had understood what he was saying. A few weeks earlier - during the first days of the pilgrimage - I had been afraid that I would never complete it. When we had passed through Roncesvalles, I had been very disillusioned about everything to do with the journey. I had wanted to get to Santiago immediately, recover my sword, and get back to fighting what Petrus called the good fight. But right now, with my connection to civilization severed, what was most important was the sun on my head and the possibility that I might experience agape.

(In the earlier chapters Paolo has talked about eros in detail and philos to some extent)

posted May 18, 2013 11:07 PM            

"Petrus, have you ever been in love?"
The question was a spointaneous one, and I was surprised at my courage. Up until then, I had known only the bare outline of my guide's private life.'

I have known a lot of women, if that is what you mean. And I have really loved each one of them. But I experienced agape only with two.'

I told him that I had been in love many times but had been worried about whether I could ever become serious with anyone. If I had continued that way, it would have led to a solitary old age, and I had been very fearful of this.

"I don't think you look to love as a means to a comfortable retirement."

It was almost nine o'clock before it began to get dark. The vineyards were behind us, and we were walking through an arid landscape. I looked around and could see in the distance a small hermitage in th rocks, similar to many others we had passed on our pilgrimage. We walked on for a while, and then, detouring from the yellow markers, we approached the small building.

When we were close enough, Petrus called out a name that I didn't understand, and he stopped to listen for an answer. We heard nothing. Petrus called again, but no one answered.

"Let's go, anyway," he said. And we moved forward.

The hermitage consisted of just 4 whitewashed walls. The door was open-or rather, there really was no door, just a small entry panel, half a meter high, which hung precariously by one hinge. Within, there was a stone fireplace and some basins stacked on the floor. Two of them were filled with wheat and potatoes.
We sat down in the silence. Petrus lit a cigarette and said we should wait. My legs were hurting, but something in that hermitage, rather than calming me, made me feel excited. It would also have frightened me a little if Petrus had not been there.
"Where does whatever lives here sleep?" I asked, just to break the uneasy silence.
"There, where you are sitting," Petrus said, pointing to the bare earth. I said something about moving to another spot, but he told me to stay exactly where I was. The temperature must have been dropping, because I began to feel cold.
We waited for almost an hour. Petrus called out the strange name several more times and then gave up. Just when I expected us to get up and leave, he began to speak.