posted May 08, 2013 03:17 PM            

The question of absolute truth is raised first of all, for the critical observer, by such self-contradictions; and the first logical conclusion to which he must be led is this: ,if there is any truth at all,it cannot be merely "relative". The first principles of modern science, as of any system of knowledge, are themselves unchangeable and absolute; if they were not there would be no knowledge at all, not even the most "reflective" knowledge, for there would be no criteria by which to classify anything as knowledge or truth.

This axiom has a corollary: the absolute cannot be attained by means of the relative. That is to say, the first principles of any system of knowledge cannot be arrived at through the means of that knowledge itself, but must be given in advance; they are the object, not of scientific demonstration, but of faith.”/

“What, more realistically, is this "mutation," the "new man"? He is the rootless man) discontinuous with a past that Nihilism has destroyed, the raw material of every demagogue's dream; the "free-thinker" and skeptic, closed only to the truth but "open" to each new intellectual fashion because he himself has no intellectual foundation; the "seeker" after some "new revelation," ready to believe anything new because true faith has been annihilated in him; the planner and experimenter, worshipping "fact" because he has abandoned truth, seeing the world as a vast laboratory in which he is free to determine what is "possible"; the autonomous man, pretending to the humility of only asking his "rights," yet full of the pride that expects everything to be given him in a world where nothing is authoritatively forbidden; the man of the moment, without conscience or values and thus at the mercy of the strongest "stimulus"; the "rebel," hating all restraint and authority because he himself is his own and only god; the "mass man," this new barbarian, thoroughly "reduced and "simplified" and capable of only the most elementary ideas, yet scornful of anyone who presumes to point out the higher things or the real complexity of life.”

"Atheism," Father Seraphim wrote in later years, "true 'existential' atheism, burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God Whose ways are so inexplicable even to the most believing of men, and it has more than once been known to end in a blinding vision of Him Whom the real atheist truly seeks. It is Christ Who works in these souls. The Antichrist is not to be found in the deniers, but in the small affirmers, whose Christ is only on the lips. Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved thereby his intense hunger for Christ..."

Seraphim Rose- ”The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age”

ebook here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/59252406/Seraphim-Rose-NIHILISM-The-Root-of-the-Revolution-of-the-Modern-Age

who is Seraphim Rose (Eugene Dennis Rose): ”Father Seraphim became a student of one of the counterculture's first pioneers, Alan Watts (whom he realized later was totally pseudo) and became a Buddhist Bohemian in San Francisco. He learned ancient Chinese in order to study the Tao Teh Ching and other ancient Eastern texts in their original language, hoping thereby to tap into the heart of their wisdom. By this time he had wholly rejected the Protestant Christianity of his formative years, which he regarded as worldly, weak, and fake; he mocked its concept of God and that that it "put God in a box." He Read Nietzsche until the Prophets words began to resonate in his soul with an electric, infernal power!”(...)In searching through various ancient religions and traditions, Father Seraphim once went to visit a Russian Orthodox Church. Later he wrote of his experience.” http://greekodyssey.typepad.com/my_greek_odyssey/2007/11/the-life-of-ble.html

links: http://www.roca.org/OA/118/118e.html http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/fsr_84.aspx http://www.archangelsbooks.com/articles/scripture/HowReadScriptures.asp

posted May 08, 2013 06:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geea:
http://www.archangelsbooks.com/articles/scripture/HowReadScriptures.asp

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The above sermon plus a similar message in the link I quote (only about Protestants instead of atheists, but otherwise about the same message) reminded me of this scene from Firefly:

Book: What are we up to, sweetheart?

River Tam: Fixing your Bible.

Book: I, um...[alarmed] What?

River Tam: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logistics - doesn't make sense.

[she's marked up the bible, crossed out passages and torn out pages]

Book: No, no. You-you-you can't...

River Tam: So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem.

Book: Really?

River Tam: We'll have to call it early quantum state phenomenon. Only way to fit 5000 species of mammal on the same boat.

[rips out page]

Book: River, you don't fix the Bible.

River: It's broken. It doesn't make sense.

posted May 09, 2013 05:52 AM            

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Originally posted by geea:
Pixiejane, i don't understand why you do reply to stuff you clearly despise?

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I don't despise. Though I DO despise when people wrongly assume malice on my part or hostility in my tone when none was meant, no matter how much I try to overlook such egotistical insecurity.

While I did share the quote partially for fun (as I think it's a fun scene, and the ep it comes from is brilliant, as is the scene being acted out), I also did it to show I not only read what you posted but also some of the links, particularly the one I quoted. What made me think of it is the part of Literal vs. Non-Literal in the link I quoted as well as what was said above, particularly this:

quote:

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The unreflective scientific specialist sees no need for any other kind of knowledge; occupied with the demands of his specialty, he has, perhaps, neither time nor inclination for "abstract" questions that inquire, for example, into the basic presuppositions of that specialty. If he is pressed, or if his mind spontaneously turns to such questions, the mostobvious explanation is usually sufficient to satisfy his curiosity: all truth is empirical, alltruth is relative. Either statement, of course, is a self-contradiction. The first statement is itself not empirical at all, but metaphysical; the second is itself an absolute statement.

The question of absolute truth is raised first of all, for the critical observer, by such self-contradictions; and the first logical conclusion to which he must be led is this: ,if there is any truth at all,it cannot be merely "relative". The first principles of modern science, as of any system of knowledge, are themselves unchangeable and absolute; if they were not there would be no knowledge at all, not even the most "reflective" knowledge, for there would be no criteria by which to classify anything as knowledge or truth.

This axiom has a corollary: the absolute cannot be attained by means of the relative. That is to say, the first principles of any system of knowledge cannot be arrived at through the means of that knowledge itself, but must be given in advance; they are the object, not of scientific demonstration, but of faith.”

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Emphasis added so I could again share this line:

quote:

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Book: It's not about making sense. It's about believing in something, and letting that belief be real enough to change your life. It's about faith. You don't fix faith, River. It fixes you.

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Hopefully that's enough to show that I wasn't posting out of some hatred or contempt.

And btw, I'm familiar with Russian Orthodox belief & practice, listened to some lectures & read some of their books and went through Pascha (which was at least a month long for me, starting weeks before it happened and lasting at least a week after, and included using their prayer book daily during the time to fully immerse myself into it), knew a nun who'd gone to a seminary school (St. Tikhon's, IIRC, but maybe it was St. Vladimir's) who helped write books on theology, and it was the one time (however briefly) that I thought I trying out to be Christian (and even though I decided against it I remained friends with some Russian Orthodox for years, even made some laugh playing with obscure knowledge that only a devout Russian Orthodox would get). While I'm not familiar with Fr. Seraphim Rose save for this thread the other priests I've known all had a sense of humor and even talked about things like the "gift of laughter" as well as saying things similar to this:
http://www.pravmir.com/the-theological-necessity-for-humor/

posted May 11, 2013 11:40 AM            

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Originally posted by Padre35:

Read most of the link of his journey and disagree with being perfected for heaven via suffering in this world.

We are perfected in Christ, through his actions, not through what we do here in this world.

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My understanding is that both statements are true.

posted May 12, 2013 12:15 PM            

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Originally posted by Padre35:

Read most of the link of his journey and disagree with being perfected for heaven via suffering in this world.

We are perfected in Christ, through his actions, not through what we do here in this world.

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Yes, I'd say these monks are pretty strict, but everything is given according to your power.
The road to be perfected through Christ is the road that Christ Himself took. Each person has a cross to carry, just like He did.
After the fall we were given a second chance and that was life. Life is a transition, it's a passage that ends with death.
Suffering means to endure. With help from God we have to endure those things we call temptation, in order to protect the body and the spirit.
Suffering is also punishment. But God does not punish as in ”you didn't obey me so i'm going to send you a disease”. No, ”you did not listen what I taught was good for you, so now do it your way and suffer your own consequences”.
Punishment is what we bring onto ourselves. When you reject God you reject His protection. And you remain vulnerable in matter and in spirit in front of evil.
It is a fact that everything you do to your mind and soul can affect the body, and viceversa. As it is also a fact that this can affect future generations. Each generation carries the past in its genes. It changes everything. At this point suffering is maybe the only way left.

Remember Jesus on the cross and the two thieves.
Jesus stands in the middle between the two thieves. One is arrogant while the other is humble. The one that defends Christ says "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" --he recognised Him as God and asked to be *remembered*. He could have acted selfish and demanding as the other one, but he accepted his own fate, he knew he was going to die, he only asked Jesus not to forget him. And Jesus answered "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

posted May 13, 2013 03:45 PM            

"..we are here because we deserve to be here, this man, is innocent and does not belong here with us.."

What insight into the human condition, the thief who was absolved at least recognized he had done wrong in his life, and Christ did nothing at all wrong.

That sort of coming to the end of yourself and finding Christ is extremely rare in this world. People are more then willing to justify whatever they have done, he was willing to own what he had done and Christ had mercy on him for being honest.

As for suffering, imo people chose to suffer as we all have a choice to suffer, or not. This is one of the profound lessons from Holocaust survivors.