posted August 12, 2013 11:51 PM            

Short & sweet it says any and all religion (and even human language itself) is simply too limited to accurately define a greater cosmic force (that I often describe as "God/dess"). While some (many?) are actually more agnostic, many (and I'd include myself here) are actually just skeptical of religion rather than God/dess. That's not to say that human religions can't work for people and that the various gods (symbolic manifestations within the Collective Unconscious that connects to God/dess, though that's an oversimplification for me in describing it), but that they aren't actually real in an "objective" sense, they're just the metaphors our limited minds have to resort to describing concepts beyond our ken.

To use a metaphor (as we literally don't have sufficient language to describe any God-force literally) there are many paths "up the mountain" (the mountain being God/dess), though at the same time all those paths also have twists & turns that can lead people further away from the mountain as well as toward it...and see even that metaphor is inaccurate in my view as a path can do both at the same time as the spiritual realm is, in my belief, non-Euclidean and God/dess is in everything (bad as well as good), including those walking the paths, not just the mountain. To "ascend the mountain" in my metaphor is simply to become more lucid (and atheists, self-proclaimed Satanists be they Luciferians or LaVeyan, and the like can ascend as well, though their paths aren't anywhere as beaten).

And one of the most intriguing things that happened to me was a visit from the goddess Freya that changed my life...and while I have many reasons why I believe I had this encounter, I also believe that had my Christian grandmother not prayed for me that I'd have never experienced it. And speaking of which, years later when we compared notes (and I was a full Heathen then sincerely believing in all the pagan gods, even Jehovah as one for me to avoid and not anymore special than the other gods, and had zero doubts about the reality of Freya as a literal force distinct from all other gods) and I asked her if she'd visit me in Sessrúmnir/Fólkvangr as I figured she'd have an easier time visiting my afterlife than I would hers, and she said (as best I recall), "They're the same place. You'll see your trappings and I'll see mine but we'll still be together and love each other." I LOVED that answer (even if I didn't believe it then).

ETA: I just recalled someone I used to live with who believed if God/dess existed then the said force could only be discovered and described in higher mathematics (not to be confused with Gematria or numerology), a concept I found fascinating and put into a scifi story of mine!

posted August 13, 2013 02:23 AM            

Its possible what you encountered was a non-local ideal version of yourself reflected back to you from the Platonic "underlying reality" of ideal forms...

That probably makes zero sense, but if the universe was a virtual environment, and as a player within the game, already existing in the code is the perfected version of your character that one can achieve over the course of ones existence.

Encounters like "Freya" could be explained as glimpse of your desired form when one's mind reaches altered states of consciousness, where the underlying code becomes visible...

The problem with this approach is that's built upon a few presuppositions;

0: The Universe is prefect.

1: An underlying reality of Ideal Forms exists

2: One can enter and view the perfect versions of every form of matter and consciousness in the Universe.

Not at all helpful I'm sure...

posted August 13, 2013 08:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Its possible what you encountered was a non-local ideal version of yourself reflected back to you from the Platonic "underlying reality" of ideal forms...

That probably makes zero sense, but if the universe was a virtual environment, and as a player within the game, already existing in the code is the perfected version of your character that one can achieve over the course of ones existence.

Encounters like "Freya" could be explained as glimpse of your desired form when one's mind reaches altered states of consciousness, where the underlying code becomes visible

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I believe so, yes. Freya "said" (in a wordless song I understood, and ALL was song, even me) that she'd sung me into existence to help me stand with Her against Ragnarok, and that everything that happened to me was tempering my steel. She said I wasn't to seek to be "eternal children as others do" to their gods but to "grow up and stand beside her." I found out a couple of years later that many had been having visions of the Scandinavian gods (many of whom, like me, knew almost nothing of the Scandinavian gods when it happened) since at least the early 70s, what one priest/gothi or priestess/gythia called "a wind through the World Tree" that was awakening the people to return to who they were.

Many believe genetics are involved...that's possible, but the Scandinavians mixed (and raped) so often through the ages (especially among the Celtic peoples, but also Slavs, Greeks, Arabs, etc) which in turn could spread DNA to other people still in the centuries that followed that it seems a moot point to me, any race and ethnic group would have the "potential to hear the call" of the Scandinavian gods even if genetics are an important factor. However, in my case I'm almost pure Scandinavian (Swedish) in ancestry. While my dad was more Celtic in origin he was a Cochran, and clan Cochrane were originally Vikings who conquered territory in what would become Scotland before mixing in with the Celts, so even my Celtic side is somewhat "diluted by Scandinavian blood."

I do wonder, what if I'd been of nearly pure Greek ancestry, could've I instead encountered Artemis? And would that encounter have affected the kind of person I'd become as I attuned to Her energy instead of that of Freya? And if more purely Scotch-Irish would I have encountered Brigid/Bride?

But one thing I'm sure of is Freya who who I needed. I was living on the streets and the system was dangerous to me and who I was meant to be, and I did not trust authority or parental figures to "take care of me" (something even pimps promised to do, and to my shock some prisoners of pimps even came to love their owner in true Stockholm Syndrome fashion). So if Jesus or Mary appeared to me when Granny prayed then I'd have instinctively rejected it, and furthermore the philosophy of depending on a greater power and father figure was dangerous to me, and I knew it (and perhaps didn't help how Dad's side of the family treated me...). Had I simply "had faith" and accepted my lot like Job I'd have been destroyed, mentally if not physically. So when Granny prayed for me out of pure love her god appeared to me as the goddess I needed, and yeah, the ideal represented by Freya is something I'd been developing all my life (without realizing it) and continued to do so even more after.

And Freya is strong, independent, her own woman (appealing to my Sag) who, like me, was free to express both male and female behavior. Freya is also a fighter, and I saw how those who were pacifists were the biggest victims (those who aren't are simply protected by those who aren't pacifists), and had I not fought then I'd have probably died (or wish I had). She was not a meek woman, nor one to submit, and I couldn't afford to be either. Perhaps even my childhood love of Pippi (Swedish!) and Dorrie the Little Witch helped prepare my mind for Freya (or maybe Freya sung me into existence which made me love those characters as a child...). And as for "standing against the giants" as Freya said, perhaps that meant the pimps and dirty cops, the courts and school system, and all the other forces (adult/"giant") in my life that I SHOULD resist (or maybe they were just the warm up to what's coming... ).

Of course the shrooms I'd done a few months prior followed by my fat melting away as I wasn't eating (thus potentially releasing stored psilocybin) no doubt helped me have the vision, too. (Speaking of which, Steve Kubby on Manna from Heaven, and of course what Bill Hicks said--ETA: found this can't be accessed and all other sources are equally stopped; did find a vid commenting how all the vids of his experience on shrooms and/or describing how we're being screwed seem to be specifically targeted, guess the people who own Google and YouTube found their employees paying too much attention to what he was saying and realizing working for them was something like this.)

posted August 14, 2013 07:18 AM            

That is to my understanding a very common age to have such experiences, regardless of taking shrooms and whatever else (but that probably does amplify the situation).

I think its related in part to the transition from Child to "Oh **** , I'm becoming an adult"! Kids need an archetypal old mentor/guide to help with the process. If you are not getting that from your immediate home environment... The mind will find a way!

quote:

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But one thing I'm sure of is Freya who who I needed.

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I feel that's a key point, how many teenagers in evangelical churches have had similar experiences with Jesus, Mary... whatever!

I hope you do not feel I'm belittling your experience, because what you described and the effect it has had upon you seems pretty damn to awesome to me

I had a very similar experience to yours at about the same age, but what I saw was COMPLETELY different, and yet was exactly what I needed!

Ultimately I feel all of this stuff falls into the "Unknowable Force" in the universe that either comes from within our subconscious self. While also appearing to come from outside of ourselves in whatever form one needs...

While the cause remains unknown, its purpose seems to be to fashion itself ideal forms of perfected consciousness and matter where in this particular reality, imperfection is often at its highest concentration.

Did you know HPL had many similar experience with Greek Gods when he was a child? Alot of it having to do with song also... a theme often echoed in his works, especially his poetry.

posted August 14, 2013 03:30 PM            

Another bit of high strangeness was I was reading minds. Thing is, I don't recall my doing that, others were yelling at me for it, I heard them talking but they said they were only thinking it. And then a sober guy came over (friends to the older kids I was with) and was amused to hear them complain about me reading their minds. At that point I sensed wary fear from him (only fair to add that growing up with hardcore alcoholics I had to learn to measure people's moods pretty fast), and then deciding he must be thinking something sexual (as all boys seemed to do, and I couldn't help but noticed how obsessed the Bible Belt town was with sex while pretending to hate it) I teased him how dirty his mind was...I don't recall all I said as I was tripping out of my skull, but he RAN, and next day I got a call from a friend telling me the latest rumor in town was I had a demon in me that let me read minds (granted, rumors have a tendency to grow so I may not have been as amazing as I heard I was).

But the most useful thing was when "the shrooms talked to me." When my trip had started to go bad I took a walk into the sunny pasture and it turned glorious (much like the Hicks vid I linked to, though "less God/dess, more Exalted Existence"), and I was so glad I'd done it, and didn't like how close I came to not doing it (I almost refused because I saw the boys harvest these shrooms right out of cow patties which grossed me out) and "the shrooms" told me (as in directing my thoughts and imparting knowledge, kinda similar to Freya singing to me about a year later) that I couldn't resist, I was too curious, and I took pleasure in learning, and as this came to me with such clarity several memories came up of my learning new skills (like mastering flashcards, reading books about new subjects, watching people doing something I don't know how to do and asking questions, even when I was 4 and cried in bitter disappointment because Granny took the screwdriver away from me after I tried dismantling the TV to see what was inside), and I thought, "Why don't I like school then?" And the shrooms showed me how much time I wasted, not supposed to ask questions, I'd finish the work fast while everyone else struggled and yet I was stuck waiting for everyone else to catch up, and therefore I was not learning at my own pace and thus bored, that is it wasn't learning at school I hated, it was how much school was preventing me from learning!

So all in all the shrooms were a fascinating and enlightening experience for me (and I had all the usual effects, too, including a small flashback in school that resulted in an uncontrollable giggle fit for over 5 minutes, and interesting enough most of the kids seemed to understand it was shrooms while the teacher just seemed confused as I buried my head trying not to be too loud with it...though OTOH, teachers learned I asked questions they couldn't, or wouldn't, answer and so may have just been scared to get me to talk since to the teacher's mind I probably started giggling over something she'd just said and didn't want to know what that was).

I encountered Freya about a year after the shrooms (did shrooms when I was 14, experienced Freya at 15) and given my very active and poor eating the vision could've been psilocybin induced ...and I DID need an adult. Interesting enough I'd have gone to Granny instead of running away from home as I had but I knew if I did then Dad's family (in same town as Granny) would report me to Dad who'd stop paying child support which meant Mom would just have me sent back (since courts refused to let me live with Granny, and Mom only wanted me for the child support, and by the way she never reported me missing while I was a runaway as she feared losing her child support), and it was Granny (who used to do shrooms a lot as a teen, maybe it allowed us to "share a psychic channel" in my moment of desperate need) who prayed for me when I saw Freya. And while I was not Christian like her, we both shared Swedish heritage so maybe that's one more reason why "her familial telepathic touch" (for want of a better word) translated as Freya as well, as not only was it something I needed, but no doubt our ancestors were very much into Freya before the Christians conquered our people, and so in addition to giving me what I need it was some "essence" of our blood/lineage that was manifested as well.

posted August 15, 2013 12:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
While the cause remains unknown, its purpose seems to be to fashion itself ideal forms of perfected consciousness and matter where in this particular reality, imperfection is often at its highest concentration.

Did you know HPL had many similar experience with Greek Gods when he was a child? Alot of it having to do with song also... a theme often echoed in his works, especially his poetry.

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Very vaguely, yes. I read a big book about him over 10 years ago and I'm pretty sure it went into all of that.

Btw, if you want to share about your experience, feel free! And if not, no harm, no foul.

posted August 18, 2013 04:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I'm thinking of sharing a couple of fun scenes later, one from Buffy that reminded me of when I "read minds" (and heard it as words), and the other that reminded my cousin of it from Firefly...not sure as they don't actually contribute to the thread other than a quick scene that some would find amusing.

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Past 1:30 AM for me so maybe my judgment isn't what it should be but I figure since this thread has been silent for a few days then it doesn't matter if I share just for fun...

Buffy as a mind reader (though unlike me she wasn't tripping out of her skull, but supposedly I was hearing people like this and thinking they were speaking):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUaCOHpNrTY

I wonder if that guy who ran from me ever saw that and felt for Xander.

My cousin did see this (a little over 10 years later) and told me it reminded him of when I was on the shrooms (as she was about to be burnt as a witch for reading minds) and thought if the locals ruled with impunity (no federal government to worry about, etc) then our family may have had to come rescue me then in a similar fashion.
http://youtu.be/VYeqDD96gLg?t=57s

posted February 08, 2014 02:20 PM            

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Peck postulates that there are four stages of human spiritual development:[12][13]

Stage I is chaotic, disordered, and reckless. Very young children are in Stage I. They tend to defy and disobey, and are unwilling to accept a will greater than their own. They are extremely egoistic and lack empathy for others. Many criminals are people who have never grown out of Stage I.

Stage II is the stage at which a person has blind faith in authority figures and sees the world as divided simply into good and evil, right and wrong, us and them. Once children learn to obey their parents and other authority figures, often out of fear or shame, they reach Stage II. Many so-called religious people are essentially Stage II people, in the sense that they have blind faith in God, and do not question His existence. With blind faith comes humility and a willingness to obey and serve. The majority of good, law-abiding citizens never move out of Stage II.

Stage III is the stage of scientific skepticism and questioning. A Stage III person does not accept things on faith but only accepts them if convinced logically. Many people working in scientific and technological research are in Stage III. They often reject the existence of spiritual or supernatural forces since these are difficult to measure or prove scientifically. Those who do retain their spiritual beliefs, move away from the simple, official doctrines of fundamentalism.

Stage IV is the stage where an individual starts enjoying the mystery and beauty of nature and existence. While retaining skepticism, he starts perceiving grand patterns in nature and develops a deeper understanding of good and evil, forgiveness and mercy, compassion and love. His religiousness and spirituality differ significantly from that of a Stage II person, in the sense that he does not accept things through blind faith or out of fear, but does so because of genuine belief, and he does not judge people harshly or seek to inflict punishment on them for their transgressions. This is the stage of loving others as yourself, losing your attachment to your ego, and forgiving your enemies. Stage IV people are labeled as Mystics.

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Peck argues that one transitions from 1 to 4 (though some get stuck on the way, or even fail to launch completely) but I think that assumes a Christian (or equivalent) background.

Also, plenty of children have empathy their more religious adults don't have. I myself cried when I saw calves being put on a table and branded while cows mood and my Christian uncle lied to me about how it didn't hurt them, and then had my favorite cow butchered to feed to me (telling me only after I'd had a burger) who it was I just ate so that I understood cows are "livestock, not pets." Being only 4 I didn't understand for awhile, thinking the meat was somehow obtained the same way as milk, and it was days before I realized I'd never see her again...and worse, the cow had been killed because I loved her. That really was hard for me to work through and recover from, I had guilt my Christian uncle could never understand for what he did.

posted February 10, 2014 02:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Who is this "Peck" philosopher/writer?

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Forgot the link! It's in the post now. You can scroll up to find out more about him, or click here on an article describing his life:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/books/28peck.html

posted February 10, 2014 10:37 AM            

For years, I was self described agnostic.

going on philosopher William L. Rowe, [and others] who say that in the strict sense, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of rationally justifying the belief that deities do, or do not, exist.

ignostic is a newer [or so I thought] more modern view of the 'without'

I tend to go with the within, if you get me....

posted February 26, 2015 09:31 PM            

It continues to a little after the 9 minute mark (so about 6 minutes) when it veers off to the war on some drugs and then to another topic completely.

posted February 28, 2015 08:54 PM            

If anyone is interested in DMT (which he talks about in that interview) then I recommended this book about the clinical trials that were preformed in New Mexico.

posted June 19, 2015 01:53 AM            

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A 28-year-old engineer at a prominent software company in San Francisco, Mike is soft-spoken and self-possessed; on weekends he drives his Subaru Forester to his time-share in Tahoe to ski. He donates to public radio, and he has made himself into an aficionado of the city’s Indian restaurants. He is, or seems like, a well-adjusted member of society.

But what Mike is doing is a felony. He is searching for psilocybin, the psychedelic mushrooms that grow wild in San Francisco and neighboring Marin County from fall to spring. If he finds any, he’ll stuff them in the bags, put the bags in his backpack, and backstreet home on his bike.

Mike doesn’t do mushrooms very often—maybe once or twice a year—but when he does, it’s for a reason. “When I take them, it may be because I have a decision to make, or maybe I suspect that my outlook toward something is not as healthy or as loving as I would like it to be,” he says. “Psilocybin allows me to see things with a fresh point of view. When I’m on them, [I’m] not as burdened by cynicism or other self-protective layers in my psychology.”

Is Mike delusional or is he onto something?

In the past decade, research into the effects of psychedelic drugs on consciousness has become a growing field of study in American academia. Psychologists at UCLA, Johns Hopkins Medical School, and NYU, among other places, have published research showing that psychedelics can promote happiness in ordinary people, as well as alleviate depression and anxiety among the terminally ill. The positive effects of taking psilocybin that Mike describes resemble many of the case descriptions contained in these studies (though no doubt none of the researchers involved would endorse his actions).

A year ago, Charles Grob, a professor of psychiatry and pediatrics at the UCLA School of Medicine, published a study in Archives of General Psychiatry finding that people with terminal stage IV cancer reported feeling dramatically less anxiety after taking a small, measured dose of psilocybin during a carefully administered experiment. Grob and his team checked in with their subjects after three months, and then again after six months; in each case, the subjects reported more benefits as time went on.

Grob distinguished between psilo­cybin and standard-issue antidepressants, which he says tend to dampen or suppress psychological problems without necessarily curing them. “The response rates among people with terminal cancer to conventional medications that target symptoms of anxiety and depression are not that impressive,” he says. “Psilocybin has the potential to facilitate what’s been called a psycho-spiritual epiphany.

“And it’s important to emphasize that psilocybin may only need to be administered once within the context of ongoing psychotherapy, whereas conventional medications are generally used daily for weeks, months, even years.”

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But while Doblin is pleased that scientists are once again able to study psychedelics legally, obtaining funding for such research is still difficult, he says. No federal agency will direct money toward experiments involving substances that the Food and Drug Administration classifies as illegal, and the obvious funding alternative—the pharmaceutical industry—isn’t interested: Psychedelics cannot be patented and are meant to be taken only in small doses.

“No one’s going to take one psilocybin pill before breakfast and another one after dinner for 30 years,” quips Doblin.

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And when Grob is asked to describe how exactly psychedelics can help cancer patients, he explains that the purpose of administering psilocybin to terminally ill people is not to cure their disease but rather to help them reconcile themselves to it. Psilocybin can unearth deeply buried psychological traumas in such a way that users can accept what before they couldn’t face.

“Many of the subjects told us that it helped them come to terms with the fact that they were going to die,” Grob says. “It gave them the strength to confront directly what was going on. They told us that their experience helped them to live in the moment, to take each day as it came in the time they had remaining, as opposed to feeling immobilized because of their predicament.”

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